That doesn't sound like a Microsoft or Apple starting a Midwest hub in Tower City.

 

Balloons.

 

Bully.

Cavs training facility to relocate to the parking lot on the Cuyahoga River and rehash of plans to develop that area with Quicken?

Real estate company Bedrock will unveil its plans for Cleveland's Cuyahoga Riverfront on Friday.

https://www.wkyc.com/amp/article/news/local/cleveland/bedrock-unveils-master-plan-for-cuyahoga-riverfront/95-43e896ee-3242-4815-918b-8f08da8f9a5e

10 minutes ago, willyboy said:

Real estate company Bedrock will unveil its plans for Cleveland's Cuyahoga Riverfront on Friday.

https://www.wkyc.com/amp/article/news/local/cleveland/bedrock-unveils-master-plan-for-cuyahoga-riverfront/95-43e896ee-3242-4815-918b-8f08da8f9a5e

 

Hopefully it comes to fruition.  It will be nice for the next couple generations to enjoy.

FIVE MINUTES! I’m ready to be disappointed.

Well, are we disappointed yet?

Safe to assume there’s no live stream?

5 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Safe to assume there’s no live stream?

 

Check out Steve Litt's twitter he's got a lot of screenshots going on...

 

We're getting a downtown carvana! 

 

Overview: 

 

Edited December 2, 20222 yr by GISguy

 

6 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

Check out Steve Litt's twitter he's got a lot of screenshots going on...

 

Thanks for the heads up. Screenshots below:

 

 

Dan Gilbert’s Bedrock unveils master plan for Cuyahoga riverfront near downtown Cleveland

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2022/12/dan-gilberts-bedrock-unveils-master-plan-for-cuyahoga-riverfront-near-downtown-cleveland.html

Photos with some quotes plus an extra photo, $3.5 billion project, 15-20 years, step 1 public financing, next steps follow in 6-8 months.

What's with all the boxy towers?

And another but in the winter

3 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

What's with all the boxy towers?

hopefully only meant as massings for potential buildings.  they dont exactly interact well with the existing buildings.  

Looks like they looked at the Beacon and were like..."more".

Does anyone else, not really... like it...? Not much to go off right now, but nothing I have seen is wowing me at all. Happy to be have someone change my mind.

 

Also, does anyone have a top down view of proposed uses? 

Save some room for the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad!

Does anyone else, not really... like it...? Not much to go off right now, but nothing I have seen is wowing me at all. Happy to be have someone change my mind.
 
Also, does anyone have a top down view of proposed uses? 

Sort of agree however all the pedestrian experience photos look pretty great

5 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Sort of agree however all the pedestrian experience photos look pretty great

Yes, they do, except I don't see anyone walking a dog.

Yeah I'd agree with the concerns, but I'm pretty sure these are all just glorified massings (except for maybe the hotel design, which I do like). I love the sloping nature and the symmetry of the buildings with Tower City and  just the overall the use of space; particularly, the riverfront park is most exciting to me. That being said, the sort of rust-belt modernism that some of these building massings allude to might be a unique look for the city that I don't really see anywhere else. If anything, I'm looking for the final building designs to be more refined along those lines - a good use of glass and "rust-belt" materials I suppose...

 

Also, that plaza photo that Boomerang posted is gorgeous. More of that around here please!

Edited December 2, 20222 yr by Geowizical

Here's Crain's article on it. The most interesting tidbit might be the amount of changes and demolition that would be required at Tower City. 

 

"At the eastern end of the site, near Ontario Street, another series of steps would help pedestrians navigate the slope. And in the middle, a reimagined Tower City Center could act as a grand corridor linking Public Square to the riverbank, with an indoor shopping area giving way to a lengthy covered porch.

 

That approach will require Bedrock to demolish the middle, or Public Square, level of the mall to create a much more open, central space. That means razing the floor starting just past the ornate entrance to the complex, beyond where the Brooks Brothers store used to be."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/bedrock-unveils-cleveland-riverfront-tower-city-master-plan

50 minutes ago, ASP1984 said:

 

Thanks for the heads up. Screenshots below:

 

 

This would look very impressive with a finished SW and Scranton Peninsula included!

Well, it looks nice. Pretty graphics. Very idyllic. But I'm not sure it's worth digesting. Not to be cynical, but we have seen so many of these presentations and have gotten burned most times. Pages of discussions and optimism for months, years even, generally followed by nothing. 

 

Maybe cities/developers should hold off on such presentations until they land financing, committed tenants, land rights, and a realistic timetable.

 

 

Edited December 2, 20222 yr by TBideon

Yawn. Enough pretty pictures. Tell me when construction starts. 

this looks like just bad urban planning too. 

 

disjointed towers with big gaps that slope down to the river.  idk

52 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Does anyone else, not really... like it...? Not much to go off right now, but nothing I have seen is wowing me at all. Happy to be have someone change my mind.

 

Also, does anyone have a top down view of proposed uses? 

 

4 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

this looks like just bad urban planning too. 

 

disjointed towers with big gaps that slope down to the river.  idk

 

Compared to older renderings, it felt like they wanted to preserve viewsheds of the Terminal Tower, which would still allow for some views of the Art Deco facade we're all used to seeing from the river. I like that concept. 

Step one: public financing.

 

Might as well have turned off PowerPoint then.

 

 

This idea of extending Tower City outward towards the river both looks and feels like a grand mall. To me, one thought comes to mind: rooftop walkway and patios for the public. 

 

Edited December 2, 20222 yr by ASP1984

5 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Step one: public financing.

 

Might as well have turned off PowerPoint then.

 

 

That's a big reason for this plans. Attract public interest/public investment.  and attract private investment. 

13 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Step one: public financing.

 

Might as well have turned off PowerPoint then.

 

 

Gilbert is involved.... there's hope something will come to fruition.

Edited December 2, 20222 yr by dski44

2 minutes ago, ASP1984 said:

This idea of extending Tower City outward towards the river both looks and feels like a grand mall. To me, one thought comes to mind: rooftop walkway and patios for the public. 

 

They aren't very clear on this point, but I think the idea is that this would become an outdoor space for some or all of it. As such, I'm guessing the idea is for the roof to be mostly transparent. Still, I like your idea. I'd just like some more details. Which I'm guessing we won't be getting.  

i realize those are massing markers, but this what the great david adjaye came up with???

 

well on the positive side its ok and not umm, screwed up or anything. or hopefully not with tc.

 

and maybe most importantly walkability was kept well in mind and the riverfront is made accessable. not in a very creative way, but one that is easily workable.

 

lastly, you can’t help but notice everything is looking at scranton and there is nothing there, so that redevelopment needs to pick up too.

 

plans are better than no plans, so we’ll see. it would be nice for gilbert to make a good faith first move and build something before seeking money from other sources.

 

 

Meh....

 

 

Bedrock’s ambitious Tower City, riverfront plans

By Ken Prendergast / December 2, 2022

 

After months of work, Bedrock Real Estate of Detroit and its masterplan architect David Adjaye Associates of Ghana today released their vision for the Cuyahoga Riverfront below Tower City Center in downtown Cleveland. The $3.5 billion vision would add more than 3.5 million square feet of mixed uses next to the former railroad passenger terminal turned shopping center. It’s the latest in a century’s worth of ambitious visions of the waterfront closest to Public Square.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/02/bedrocks-ambitious-tower-city-riverfront-plans/

looks lke the city needs to upgrade sewers and shore up the riveredge before anything can get started. thats not unreasonable or undoable, but i would think they would want some kind of firmer commitment to proceed.

48 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Step one: public financing.

 

Might as well have turned off PowerPoint then.

 

 

Especially when they will be competing for funds with whatever is FINALLY presented for the lakefront and given public officials (especially city council) who will be skeptical to say the least (the usual council argument... too much investment in downtown at the expense of the neighborhoods).  I mean it really is a bit of fantasy if they are looking for extensive public financing, which I am sure they are.  Look at all the time and effort it took to get Irishtown Bend Park financed.  It appears to me that Canal Basic Park still struggles to find funding even though it has been around forever.  At today's Planning Commission meeting it was revealed that the the Loarain Avenue bike way, another long standing project, is not even half funded and it did not appear like they knew at this point where the additional money will come from.  I am not quite sure that the Superior Midway is fully funded, and even if it is construction will not begin until 2025.  I am sure Bedrock is going to have its hands out like it does in Detroit, but I don't think these pretty pictures are going to help much.

I get the dampened enthusiasm @TBideonand others have based on the tendency these sorts of visions have to...well...just not happen.

 

But I just do not get the design criticisms. The renderings are labelled "concept rendering," which means obviously more polishing will be done. The design and architectural vision is gorgeous and makes a lot of sense. If executed, this will create an incredible public space unlike anything else in the State of Ohio.

What does this mean for the twin ideas of bringing passenger service back to CUT or extending the CVSRR to Tower City?  From the looks of it, this would not be possible.

Edited December 2, 20222 yr by neony

Regarding the plan to remove part of the Avenue mall. They are essentially makin retail space smaller inside of Tower city and replacing them with more outdoor retail correct? I feel like my confusion is what stores would that effect? Is that the section that contains the fountain? The second floor section that now houses the Cavs team shop, Jaxons closet etc?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So Bedrock is looking at up to a 30 year timeline? If Dan Gilbert is driving this then it's more like from here to eternity. Other than the location I don't think much of what was in the presentation will be reflected in whatever is built. I'm not even sure what the point was at all unless Bedrock is taking a page from the Robert Stark Manual of Hot Air Productions.

 

Look, it's likely anything from one structure to a major buildout is possible but due to the scale, timeline, multiple parties and Gilbert's age/health I think we're jumping the gun here. Forget the fact that we've all seen this movie before, it's just too early in the game for this. If you expect us to have even a little faith get back to us AFTER you have something more concrete from the government entities that you say need to fund part of this. 

 

Lord knows Bedrock, we live for development on this forum. But you have to know we are acutely aware there are several whales already in line in front of you (Lakefront land bridge, Browns stadium, new Justice Center) and the problem is until thigs change we remain a relatively poor, smallish city. We can still get expensive things done, it's just that we can probably only do one at a time sooo...

2 minutes ago, cadmen said:

So Bedrock is looking at up to a 30 year timeline? If Dan Gilbert is driving this then it's more like from here to eternity. Other than the location I don't think much of what was in the presentation will be reflected in whatever is built. I'm not even sure what the point was at all unless Bedrock is taking a page from the Robert Stark Manual of Hot Air Productions.

 

Look, it's likely anything from one structure to a major buildout is possible but due to the scale, timeline, multiple parties and Gilbert's age/health I think we're jumping the gun here. Forget the fact that we've all seen this movie before, it's just too early in the game for this. If you expect us to have even a little faith get back to us AFTER you have something more concrete from the government entities that you say need to fund part of this. 

 

Lord knows Bedrock, we live for development on this forum. But you have to know we are acutely aware there are several whales already in line in front of you (Lakefront land bridge, Browns stadium, new Justice Center) and the problem is until thigs change we remain a relatively poor, smallish city. We can still get expensive things done, it's just that we can probably only do one at a time sooo...

Headquarters for Rocket Mortgage and a new courthouse tower would put this in front of the other projects....imo

If the courthouse tower can be made part of this project, it could also help with securing infrastructure improvements by having the county involved.

18 minutes ago, cadmen said:

So Bedrock is looking at up to a 30 year timeline? If Dan Gilbert is driving this then it's more like from here to eternity. Other than the location I don't think much of what was in the presentation will be reflected in whatever is built. I'm not even sure what the point was at all unless Bedrock is taking a page from the Robert Stark Manual of Hot Air Productions.

 

Look, it's likely anything from one structure to a major buildout is possible but due to the scale, timeline, multiple parties and Gilbert's age/health I think we're jumping the gun here. Forget the fact that we've all seen this movie before, it's just too early in the game for this. If you expect us to have even a little faith get back to us AFTER you have something more concrete from the government entities that you say need to fund part of this. 

 

Lord knows Bedrock, we live for development on this forum. But you have to know we are acutely aware there are several whales already in line in front of you (Lakefront land bridge, Browns stadium, new Justice Center) and the problem is until thigs change we remain a relatively poor, smallish city. We can still get expensive things done, it's just that we can probably only do one at a time sooo...

Not that this is quite the same scale (I could be wrong), but does anyone know how long it took Bedrock to get the Hudson Site in Detroit from proposal to construction start in 2017 (not counting the 6 years its been under construction from what I understand)? I guess I'm just thinking about the timelines of other major Bedrock projects for comparison...

Edited December 2, 20222 yr by Geowizical

On 12/2/2022 at 3:42 PM, dski44 said:

Headquarters for Rocket Mortgage and a new courthouse tower would put this in front of the other projects....imo

If the courthouse tower can be made part of this project, it could also help with securing infrastructure improvements by having the county involved.

Yeah, those two are potential candidates.  Not sure what will fill all the other buildings. I doubt Cliffs will be doing anything in the foreseeable future.  I suppose a hotel is possible, although I don't believe there currently is a need for more hotel rooms downtown. And I suppose more residential is possible, however there will be a lot of space opening up in Landmark after SHW moves out.  A new casino would be nice.  I really hate having a casino in the historic Higbee Building.   A concert/event pavilion would also be nice - a nicer, classier version of Jacobs Pavilion.  

 

There are still several large parcels in the downtown core - surrounding the new SHW campus, 4th & Prospect (nuCLEus site), 9th & Bolivar.  It sure would be nice to see those developed first before building towers on the perimeter of downtown.

 

Edited December 5, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd

Being honest.  I was kinda just hoping for something simple like this. Blue=building; red=walkway towards river; green=parkland then extend tower city out another block.  Frankly, i liked the Forest City Riverview plan better.

 

I like the idea of a new Courthouse tower as part of this. As was said above that could be a way to jumpstart government involvement both with a new tower and maybe even better, infrastructure that would support the very large plans for this site. And since a decision regarding the Justice Crnter is imperative and not just something aspirational like the lakefront or even this Tower City expansion maybe it actually gets done sooner.

 

So if its decided that a new Courthouse tower is a better decision than remodeling the old one then by all means use it as leverage to kickstart this development. It's almost like a twofer. Whst happens to the old Justice Center can be left for a different discussion.

Love the ambition of this plan and the renderings.  Super props to get this vision rolling in spite of historical obstacles.

 

Disappointed that Bedrock is willing to gut the newly developed National park inside the Avenue mall. Perhaps there was some infighting on the design team on this very issue.

I can see all our local politicians complaints regarding “courthouse/jail costs” being the public “buttering up” for a massive courthouse rental subsidy to help fund this project. 

Its all just renderings bro

..

Edited December 3, 20222 yr by marty15

2 hours ago, snakebite said:

Its all just renderings bro

 

Except for the news that Bedrock is buying SHW's old HQ and R&D. To me, that's more significant than the masterplan.