June 14, 20232 yr Didn't Disney just close their Star Wars themed hotel? It was too expensive and had limited appeal.
June 14, 20232 yr 28 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said: This is way too gimmicky for me. I'm grateful the space is finally being occupied, and I truly wish them success, but I really do not see this lasting very long. "An entertaining dining experience for sci-fi movie fans." Sounds like a very niche market to me. Buena suerte. I'm not big on gimmicky places either but I think they are popular with people traveling or even local NE Ohio people who rarely venture to the city.
June 14, 20232 yr The Ritz is right there. As well as the future Hotel Cleveland. And the coming riverfront development. Not to mention people visiting JACK. Would these guests and residents rather go to a classy jazz/blues bar (which Downtown is severely lacking) with classy furniture and great food/cocktails. Or a spaceship, alien movie, asteroid themed restaurant. Apologies for the pessimism, but I see this as a HUGE wasted opportunity.
June 14, 20232 yr 22 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said: The Ritz is right there. As well as the future Hotel Cleveland. And the coming riverfront development. Not to mention people visiting JACK. Would these guests and residents rather go to a classy jazz/blues bar (which Downtown is severely lacking) with classy furniture and great food/cocktails. Or a spaceship, alien movie, asteroid themed restaurant. Apologies for the pessimism, but I see this as a HUGE wasted opportunity. A significant jazz bar downtown is, to me, a priority - and it wouldn’t have to have “national” names every week - but, at least, some major artists sometimes. There’s nothing like that now. Edited June 14, 20232 yr by CleveFan
June 14, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, CleveFan said: A significant jazz bar downtown is, to me, a priority - and it wouldn’t have to have “national” names every week - but, at least, some major artists sometimes. There’s nothing like that now. The closure of Fat Fish Blue in lieu of a cheesy Breast-aurant signaled a bad omen for TC and perhaps all of downtown. The Casino has seemingly done nothing much at all to improve adjacent retail.
June 14, 20232 yr It sure would be nice if Bedrock's riverview development included a new casino. I hate having a casino in the historic Higbee building.
June 14, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, surfohio said: The closure of Fat Fish Blue in lieu of a cheesy Breast-aurant signaled a bad omen for TC and perhaps all of downtown. The Casino has seemingly done nothing much at all to improve adjacent retail. And now said breastaurant is gone too.
June 14, 20232 yr 23 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: It sure would be nice if Bedrock's riverview development included a new casino. I hate having a casino in the historic Higbee building. I hope not, as another forumer said at one point riverfront is wasted on a windowless building. It also hasn't benefitted nearby retail. At this point I'd prefer not to have a downtown casino at all. To the extent we have to have one, I'd prefer it as far from prime real estate as possible, and certainly not on public waterfront. 53 minutes ago, CleveFan said: A significant jazz bar downtown is, to me, a priority - and it wouldn’t have to have “national” names every week - but, at least, some major artists sometimes. There’s nothing like that now. There are few places downtown that consistently have live music of any genre. For a city with the rock and roll hall of Fame that's an embarrassment. Hopefully this and other new downtown developments are awash in bars and restaurants with live music. From full on jazz bars to small stages for singer/songwriter types.
June 14, 20232 yr When I lived in Chicago I liked going to Pops for Champagne. Considering that the Ritz is there and the Casino, it might be a better fit.
June 14, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, Ethan said: I hope not, as another forumer said at one point riverfront is wasted on a windowless building. It also hasn't benefitted nearby retail. At this point I'd prefer not to have a downtown casino at all. To the extent we have to have one, I'd prefer it as far from prime real estate as possible, and certainly not on public waterfront. Well, perhaps it could be imbedded somewhere in the development, not necessary on the waterfront. By the way, the proposed Cavs practice facility will be mostly windowless.
June 14, 20232 yr It sounds like an 80's idea who's time has passed. But more power to them and good luck to the fellas as l think they're going to need it.
June 14, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, GREGinPARMA said: This is way too gimmicky for me. I'm grateful the space is finally being occupied, and I truly wish them success, but I really do not see this lasting very long. "An entertaining dining experience for sci-fi movie fans." Sounds like a very niche market to me. Buena suerte. I think it can succeed because Clevelanders are out of this world!
June 15, 20232 yr Pretty sure downtown recently had a jazz bar in the current Filter space in the Warehouse district. I really enjoyed it. Not sure why it closed.
June 15, 20232 yr I might be the only one it seems, but I love the idea of The Astro. We already have tons of classy restaurants in Cleveland. I like variety and I think this could be fun. Also, the same people run The Haunted House Restaurant in Cleveland Heights, and while I haven't been there, I would really like to and I think it's been a big success and looks really fun to me.
June 15, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Milkshake1 said: I might be the only one it seems, but I love the idea of The Astro. We already have tons of classy restaurants in Cleveland. I like variety and I think this could be fun. Also, the same people run The Haunted House Restaurant in Cleveland Heights, and while I haven't been there, I would really like to and I think it's been a big success and looks really fun to me. If done well I agree. Different strokes. And at least it’s an original.
June 15, 20231 yr 20 hours ago, Milkshake1 said: I might be the only one it seems, but I love the idea of The Astro. We already have tons of classy restaurants in Cleveland. I like variety and I think this could be fun. Also, the same people run The Haunted House Restaurant in Cleveland Heights, and while I haven't been there, I would really like to and I think it's been a big success and looks really fun to me. I agree. I like the variety. Hopefully they will receive enough business to succeed. Edited June 15, 20231 yr by TMart
June 15, 20231 yr So this is a locally-owned business, which I believe is the case for all the others that Bedrock has brought in to Tower City.
June 15, 20231 yr 20 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: So this is a locally-owned business, which I believe is the case for all the others that Bedrock has brought in to Tower City. Yeah, I like the idea of local businesses/restaurants as opposed to national chains. Ideally, Tower City will return to being the “hub” of downtown Cleveland if/when Amtrak comes into play and anyone coming in from the airport. For many, Tower City is their first impression of Cleveland. In my opinion, better to show of local flairs instead of establishments they’ve seen a thousand times.
June 16, 20231 yr 16 hours ago, BuckeyeNative said: Yeah, I like the idea of local businesses/restaurants as opposed to national chains. Ideally, Tower City will return to being the “hub” of downtown Cleveland if/when Amtrak comes into play and anyone coming in from the airport. For many, Tower City is their first impression of Cleveland. In my opinion, better to show of local flairs instead of establishments they’ve seen a thousand times. I think there needs to be some amount of mix. Sure, local works when transportation rebounds and people start using Tower City again. But until then? There needs to be something in the space that’s a destination, a brand that can get bodies in the door.
June 16, 20231 yr 30 minutes ago, Henke said: I think there needs to be some amount of mix. Sure, local works when transportation rebounds and people start using Tower City again. But until then? There needs to be something in the space that’s a destination, a brand that can get bodies in the door. Agree. I think not putting the permanent Cavs Team Shop there is a big missed opportunity.
June 16, 20231 yr Agree. I think not putting the permanent Cavs Team Shop there is a big missed opportunity. I personally think at least putting their most popular items in there and using that space for special Cavs releases such as City Jersey's etc. Would have been great since it's a lot more accessible that RMFH.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
June 16, 20231 yr Author I'm told a large downtown office tenant is moving to the riverfront development. If it wasn't for a new downtown office tower, they would've gone to the suburbs instead, the source said. I don't know who the tenant is but I doubt it's Rocket Mortgage because that's something Gilbert/Bedrock can control. Anyone have any info or educated guesses? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20231 yr 3 minutes ago, KJP said: I'm told a large downtown office tenant is moving to the riverfront development. If it wasn't for a new downtown office tower, they would've gone to the suburbs instead, the source said. I don't know who the tenant is but I doubt it's Rocket Mortgage because that's something Gilbert/Bedrock can control. Anyone have any info or educated guesses? ...cliffs?
June 16, 20231 yr 18 minutes ago, KJP said: I'm told a large downtown office tenant is moving to the riverfront development. If it wasn't for a new downtown office tower, they would've gone to the suburbs instead, the source said. I don't know who the tenant is but I doubt it's Rocket Mortgage because that's something Gilbert/Bedrock can control. Anyone have any info or educated guesses? Did the source say how large of an office tenant. Would be easier to guess.
June 16, 20231 yr 15 minutes ago, GISguy said: ...cliffs? Possible, but not likely they would consider going to the suburbs.
June 16, 20231 yr Author 24 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Did the source say how large of an office tenant. Would be easier to guess. Unclear as to size but their lease is up in several years. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20231 yr “Large” could mean 50k sq. ft. right? So many different companies fit the bill, not sure how you’d guess.
June 16, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: “Large” could mean 50k sq. ft. right? So many different companies fit the bill, not sure how you’d guess. If it is a completely independent office building from the suggested Rocket new build, it would probably have to be more than 50k sq ft unless it is a very very small building, especially in the current financing environment. I would guess a lender would want a building at least 40% leased before the start of construction.
June 16, 20231 yr Author 18 minutes ago, Htsguy said: If it is a completely independent office building from the suggested Rocket new build, it would probably have to be more than 50k sq ft unless it is a very very small building, especially in the current financing environment. I would guess a lender would want a building at least 40% leased before the start of construction. Source says Bedrock has 80 percent of its proposed office space leased. There are two buildings shown in its master plan as office. I don't know if that's still the case. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20231 yr Whoever the tenants are must have a lot of confidence in Bedrock's ability to get it done. I'm actually surprised they landed tenant(s) this early in the process. Have all of the proposed public infrastructure improvements been agreed upon and funded by the various governmental bodies?
June 16, 20231 yr 29 minutes ago, Chazz Michael Michaels said: Wasn't AmTrust looking for new space in the past? AmTrust is not looking for new space. After the two waves of lay-offs and COVID there was a great emptying of the building. about two whole floors worth of empty desks, I'd say. And the NY bigwigs are definitely keen on not spending more money than they have to, so a new building would be a non-starter.
June 16, 20231 yr Author 32 minutes ago, JohnSummit said: Whoever the tenants are must have a lot of confidence in Bedrock's ability to get it done. I'm actually surprised they landed tenant(s) this early in the process. Have all of the proposed public infrastructure improvements been agreed upon and funded by the various governmental bodies? We're not that early in the process if Dan Gilbert/Bedrock wants to get Rocket Mortgage out of Higbee's when their lease ends at the end of 2026. They've got to get an office building under construction by this time next year. I have the name of another office tenant (new to downtown) and now there's this latest info of an existing downtown office tenant relocating to the riverfront. There may be other tenants but that's all I know right now. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20231 yr Author Another bottom-of-the-page article on UO.... Bedrock riverfront offices draw tenants By Ken Prendergast / June 16, 2023 Because of their cost and complexity, Downtown Cleveland megaprojects don’t usually have a strong track record of becoming a reality. But Bedrock Real Estate’s vision for the downtown riverfront between Tower City Center and the Cuyahoga River appears to be coming together more quickly as time goes on. And, in recent weeks, NEOtrans has learned that several large tenants are in the works for the major development. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/06/16/bedrock-riverfront-offices-draw-tenants/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20231 yr Downtown has made so much progress in many different ways over the last few decades but man, do l miss the days when office buildings were filled with actual office workers.
June 16, 20231 yr 4 hours ago, cadmen said: Downtown has made so much progress in many different ways over the last few decades but man, do l miss the days when office buildings were filled with actual office workers. Definitely but it sounds like there is a significant office component here so there should be plenty of daytime workers. So is closing Canal as a connector to Center St a done deal? Edited June 17, 20231 yr by Mendo
June 16, 20231 yr Author No. Canal Road will remain open. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20231 yr My mistake I totally misread this as Canal becoming the service road through this stretch. 2 minutes ago, KJP said: According to GCRTA planning documents, the transit authority intends to spend $8 million in 2027 to renovate its bridge over Canal which will be converted by Bedrock into a service/delivery vehicle roadway to access structures in its first phase.
June 17, 20231 yr Author Old Canal Road will be the service road. New Canal will be on the right of way of the CSX railroad tracks north of Eagle. Since the railroad tracks were built on the old Ohio Canal north of I-490, Canal is ultimately being built on the Canal. 🙂 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 18, 20231 yr On 6/16/2023 at 10:29 AM, KJP said: We're not that early in the process if Dan Gilbert/Bedrock wants to get Rocket Mortgage out of Higbee's when their lease ends at the end of 2026. They've got to get an office building under construction by this time next year. I have the name of another office tenant (new to downtown) and now there's this latest info of an existing downtown office tenant relocating to the riverfront. There may be other tenants but that's all I know right now. All good news. Extension dates can truly force action. My guess is potential tenants are in favor of Gilbert’s track record.
June 18, 20231 yr I'm not surprised at the uptake in office development. I think some organisations and younger professionals like the modern campus style office setup and see the traditional scrapers and suburban office developments as stodgy or outdated. Edited June 18, 20231 yr by snakebite
June 18, 20231 yr Author I updated the article above after sifting through the approved state budget. It has money for Bedrock infrastructure, probably riverside bulkheads and/or boardwalks. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 30, 20231 yr Dan Gilbert’s Bedrock buys Sherwin-Williams’ current HQ "Bedrock’s purchase includes the Landmark Office Towers at 101 West Prospect Avenue, which has 1.2 million square-feet of office space, and the Breen Technology Center, Sherwin-Williams’ current research & development center at 601 Canal Road...The former Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Building at 829 Canal Road was also purchased." https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/06/dan-gilberts-bedrock-buys-sherwin-williams-current-hq.html Edited June 30, 20231 yr by GISguy added B&O bldg
June 30, 20231 yr 37 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said: ^ good to see it also includes the old B&O station. Would love to see that building in its original appearance with the corner capped turrets and the central clock restored. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
June 30, 20231 yr Author There's an angle to this story that is pretty bad. I hope to be able to write about it later today or over the weekend. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
Create an account or sign in to comment