Bedrock pays nearly $3 million for more riverfront land

STAN BULLARD

July 24, 2023

Quote

Bedrock, the real estate arm of Cavs owner Dan Gilbert's Rock family of companies, has paid $2.8 million to snag another parcel for its Cuyahoga River development plans.

 

The empty site at 1900-1960 West Third St. was sold July 20, according to Cuyahoga River land records, to Starling Stone, a company formed by Bedrock to hold the property.

 

The seller was Flats South Cleveland, a local investment group that had envisioned the parcel as the site for a multistory apartment building as part of a larger redevelopment of land and buildings it purchased in 2016 from an affiliate of the former Forest City Realty Trust Inc.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/bedrock-buys-key-flats-site-28-million

 

Bedrock to start riverfront work

By Ken Prendergast / August 4, 2023

 

A company owned by billionaire Dan Gilbert has secured a permit from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for the reconstruction of bulkheads along the edge of the Cuyahoga River, a federal navigation channel. The approved work will be one of the first tangible pieces of Detroit-based Bedrock Real Estate’s huge Cleveland Riverfront Development Project.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/08/04/bedrock-to-start-riverfront-work/

 

Cleveland Thermal target of acquisition
By Ken Prendergast / August 11, 2023

 

As Dan Gilbert’s real estate firm gets ready to roll out the details of phase one of its riverfront development, a neighboring fixture on the banks of the Cuyahoga River since 1894 may not be around much longer. The long-closed Cleveland Thermal steam heating plant, 2274 Canal Rd., along with possibly other properties of Cleveland Thermal Generation LLC are in the process of being acquired, according to a real estate source.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/08/11/cleveland-thermal-target-of-acquisition/

I know this things take time but I'm tired of hearing what Bedrock is buying/demolishing. BUILD SOMETHING!!!!

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I like the building but l will be happy to see the smoke stack gone.

16 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I know this things take time but I'm tired of hearing what Bedrock is buying/demolishing. BUILD SOMETHING!!!!

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Soon we’ll have just as many parking lots as we did last year again!

I don’t know, seems like Bedrock actually has the capital to get at least phase 1 done. This isn’t one of the local developer companies that need to scratch and claw for capital stacks. 

If Rocket Mortgage wants to get out of the Higbee building when their lease expires, they better get cracking on a new building pretty soon.

14 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

If Rocket Mortgage wants to get out of the Higbee building when their lease expires, they better get cracking on a new building pretty soon.

I cannot imagine that the owners of Higbee Building would have a problem going month to month for a tenant that large for a while if the building is still not finished when the lease expires, probably at a slightly increased rent.  I am sure there won't be any companies banging down the doors to take up that much space in that old of a building which would cause them to kick Rocket out.

17 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I know this things take time but I'm tired of hearing what Bedrock is buying/demolishing. BUILD SOMETHING!!!!

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Like a mini Battersea Power Station maybe? (queue Pink Floyd Animals)

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-63234124

 

https://batterseapowerstation.co.uk/

 

 

30 minutes ago, Rustbelter said:

 

Like a mini Battersea Power Station maybe? (queue Pink Floyd Animals)

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-63234124

 

https://batterseapowerstation.co.uk/

 

 

Apples and oranges.  Battersea is absolute huge.  Moreover the cost for that renovation was crazy.

3 hours ago, cadmen said:

I like the building but l will be happy to see the smoke stack gone.

Really? If they keep the building I hope they keep the smokestack. It's the most distinctive feature, and a cool nod to its past industrial use. 

if bedrock is taking on the riverfront bulkhead work, and i am surprized they are allowed to do that as much as i am they are actually doing something right away, but geez louize that is a huge sign they are very serious about actually moving forward on developing this area sooner than later.

 

it definitely will atract interest from other developers. i would imagine a few big boys like hines, brookfield, extell, etc. are side-eyeing this.

3 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

If Rocket Mortgage wants to get out of the Higbee building when their lease expires, they better get cracking on a new building pretty soon.

 

I'm told to expect something on planning commission's agenda from Bedrock and Gensler "very soon."

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

Really? If they keep the building I hope they keep the smokestack. It's the most distinctive feature, and a cool nod to its past industrial use. 

Slap a big sign on it like Battery Park did. Great placemaking feature that’s already there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Is it fair to assume that Bedrock is taking full responsibility for the riverfront without the support of the Dolans? I'm actually very confused as to why or how they wouldn't be working together on this one.

6 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Is it fair to assume that Bedrock is taking full responsibility for the riverfront without the support of the Dolans? I'm actually very confused as to why or how they wouldn't be working together on this one.

I guess I am confused why you believe the  Dolans would be or should be involved.

Edited August 12, 20231 yr by Htsguy

3 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I guess I am confused why you believe the  Dolans would be or should be involved.

I may be confused but I just thought there was stipulations on whether or not The Dolans, Blitzer, & Gilbert were envisioning the riverfront together, but it seems like Bedrock has been the only one taking action;  Which is fine, if not even better than whatever extended time-line a partnership would bring. It was also my understanding that throughout the evolution of ballpark village Guardians ownership would funnel money at the riverfront as well. After all, they're part of the riverfront as much as Bedrock is. I just want to clear up my confusion, I've been out of the loop for a while.

2 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

I may be confused but I just thought there was stipulations on whether or not The Dolans, Blitzer, & Gilbert were envisioning the riverfront together, but it seems like Bedrock has been the only one taking action;  Which is fine, if not even better than whatever extended time-line a partnership would bring. It was also my understanding that throughout the evolution of ballpark village Guardians ownership would funnel money at the riverfront as well. After all, they're part of the riverfront as much as Bedrock is. I just want to clear up my confusion, I've been out of the loop for a while.

I have never heard anything regarding the Dolans or Blitzer ever being involved in the riverfront.  Moreover, talk of a ballpark village close by Rocket and Progressive Field has been almost non-existent lately.  I believe the Dolans are more focused on the massive renovations to the stadium which will take the next 2-3 years.  And you rarely ever hear anything about Blitzer any more.

 

As far as I know the Dolans do not actually own any substantial real estate downtown, in fact many not own any, and certainly nothing on the riverfront.  About their only connection to the riverfront is that the are majority owners (and maybe not for long) of a baseball team that leases a publicly owned ballpark that is kind of near the river.

 

On the other hand Bedrock and other Gilbert affiliates own and have owned for a pretty long time huge swaths of real estate from West 3rd to Ontario and beyond (former Nucleus site), including significant acreage actually touching the river.

 

Finally, Gilbert is vastly more wealthy than the Dolans.  I would not mind having the Dolan's money, but I don't believe they are in the same league as the cousin in New York.

@EthanWhile l appreciate our industrial past l don't want to see a smokestack looming over a main entrance to downtown. Plus, if you're standing in the center of Public Square looking south you're looking right at that smokestack. I think it sends the wrong message. Smokestacks in the heart of downtown??

 

We are still viewed as a town looking too much to the past. I want to send a different message. 

12 minutes ago, cadmen said:

@EthanWhile l appreciate our industrial past l don't want to see a smokestack looming over a main entrance to downtown. Plus, if you're standing in the center of Public Square looking south you're looking right at that smokestack. I think it sends the wrong message. Smokestacks in the heart of downtown??

 

We are still viewed as a town looking too much to the past. I want to send a different message. 

I'm ambivalent on this. If the building gets a cool reuse, with signage ala Battery Park, then I think it creates a distinctive landmark. On the other hand, having all new development along the river with greenspace would be nice.

Edited August 12, 20231 yr by freefourur

That smokestack needs to go.  Also, riverfront phase 1 will happen sooner than later.  

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

@EthanWhile l appreciate our industrial past l don't want to see a smokestack looming over a main entrance to downtown. Plus, if you're standing in the center of Public Square looking south you're looking right at that smokestack. I think it sends the wrong message. Smokestacks in the heart of downtown??

 

We are still viewed as a town looking too much to the past. I want to send a different message. 

I can understand your perspective, but I just can't see the logic to the middle ground of preserving the building but knocking down the smokestack. Either knock the whole thing down and start fresh, or keep the building as is, smokestack and all, and engage in a cool, adaptive reuse. I'm fine with either option, I just don't think there's any point to reusing the building if you are going to get rid of the building's most distinctive feature. 

 

Personally I think one of the cool aspects of adaptive reuse is having to make creative use of an unusual feature. While I don't have the genius idea, I think there has to be cool ways for a smokestack to look interesting and unique (rope lighting? Idk, but I'm sure a local artist could come up with something cool and distinctive). 

I will say that was one of my favorite aspects of living in Pittsburgh for a few year. So much industrial history was kept and repurposed. Hell, they kept several massive smoke stakes up in Homestead and lit them up

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Stacks+(Homestead,+PA+Steel+Mill)+Historical+Landmark/@40.404786,-79.9188161,332m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x8834ee283658594d:0x86cd03df36cc74e5!8m2!3d40.404786!4d-79.918039!16s%2Fg%2F11dym14612?entry=ttu

 

They really embraced Rust Belt Chic.

From someone who has knowledge about this project, they are already well funded and will be breaking ground on the first phase, sooner than later

15 minutes ago, zbaris87 said:

From someone who has knowledge about this project, they are already well funded and will be breaking ground on the first phase, sooner than later

Well it will certainly be new and refreshing to follow an announced project that actually has its financing in place.

1 hour ago, zbaris87 said:

From someone who has knowledge about this project, they are already well funded and will be breaking ground on the first phase, sooner than later

First phase is the Cavs stuff? Or Rocket offices? Or both lol?

17 hours ago, cadmen said:

@EthanWhile l appreciate our industrial past l don't want to see a smokestack looming over a main entrance to downtown. Plus, if you're standing in the center of Public Square looking south you're looking right at that smokestack. I think it sends the wrong message. Smokestacks in the heart of downtown??

 

We are still viewed as a town looking too much to the past. I want to send a different message. 

A city can dwell deeply on its past while also looking at the future.   

Signed,

Europe and the rest of the modern industrialized nations. 

I'd say keep the smokestack and put some signage on it that says 'Riverview' or whatever this area gets called (like Battery Park). That's assuming this building gets repurposed and not demolished. 

I actually love the Battery Park smokestack, especially with the letters lit up. I'm not against smokestacks in general and l absolutely love old brick factories. My issue with the downtown smokestack is that it's downtown. In a small town it would be fine, great actually. But in a major city a smokestack downtown doesn't fit and, as l said, it sends the wrong message. 

 

That's just my opinion. Probably no right or wrong answer here but that's what this forum is for...debating the finer points on what our city should look like.

Cleveland has to many brick buildings with smokestacks.  The city needs more architectural diversity so it does not look lake a city stuck in the past.  Chicago is a city with an outstanding mix of old and new.  

47 minutes ago, newyorker said:

Cleveland has to many brick buildings with smokestacks.  The city needs more architectural diversity so it does not look lake a city stuck in the past.  Chicago is a city with an outstanding mix of old and new.  

Agreed. Cleveland skyline does look rather stodgy compared to other cities. Too many Brutalist buildings. Fortunately it is finally starting to change.  

4 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Agreed. Cleveland skyline does look rather stodgy compared to other cities. Too many Brutalist buildings. Fortunately it is finally starting to change.  

 

Brutalist?  There's like three, though a good argument could be made that three is three too many Brutalist buildings.

 

J/K, three Brutalist buildings is only two too many.

 

5 hours ago, newyorker said:

Cleveland has to many brick buildings with smokestacks.  The city needs more architectural diversity so it does not look lake a city stuck in the past.  Chicago is a city with an outstanding mix of old and new.  

 

We've got tons of empty parking lots to build new on.  No need to demolish history to increase diversity- in fact it's counter productive to that goal.

 

Anyway, I'm all for keeping the smokestack and the power plant if they can be reused in any way possible.  I've always considered the smokestack to be a great contributor to Cleveland's sense of place.  If you don't like smokestacks and industrial history visible on the periphery of Downtown, there are plenty of cities without them.  Let's see....there's Phoenix, Tampa, Atlanta...lots of interesting and exciting places- Nashville, Jacksonville, Charlotte....the list goes on.

Agreed. Cleveland skyline does look rather stodgy compared to other cities. Too many Brutalist buildings. Fortunately it is finally starting to change.  

There are 3 brutalist buildings that make an impact the skyline.


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17 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

There are 3 brutalist buildings that make an impact the skyline.


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And the 3 are - justice center, metropolitan 9 and ? 

13 minutes ago, simplythis said:

And the 3 are - justice center, metropolitan 9 and ? 

Rhodes

And we could probably include Reserve Square (originally Park Centre), although it is not nearly as bad as the aforementioned.  There are a few others that don't really impact the skyline, such as Tri C Metro campus.  But we are digressing.  Let's get back to Tower City.

 

Edited August 15, 20231 yr by LibertyBlvd

There was some work going on at the Ontario end of Eagle Ave bridge this morning. Not sure what. No picture as I was driving. 

From Saturday Evening

From Saturday Evening

Side note, Tower City’s outdoor way finding signs need a refreshing. They look so dated.


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Question for geotech experts out there. Does this portend the construction of a building here? Would such soil sampling be needed for a new bridge structure here where a bridge (and previously a concrete elevated ramp) had been here for 117 years?

hate to break a bubble, but news today is it looks like gilbert is making moves for his big cadillac square tower, so unless he ropes in partners that may slow his tc developments:

 

 

crains paywall:

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-estate/demo-permit-issued-building-gilbert-project-site?utm_source=morning-newsletter-tuesday&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20230814&utm_content=article1-image

Man, I wish Gilbert was from Cleveland, not Detroit. 

hate to break a bubble, but news today is it looks like gilbert is making moves for his big cadillac square tower, so unless he ropes in partners that may slow his tc developments:
 
 
crains paywall:
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-estate/demo-permit-issued-building-gilbert-project-site?utm_source=morning-newsletter-tuesday&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20230814&utm_content=article1-image

[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]


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But wouldn't they already know this was coming and factor it into their plans?

16 hours ago, KJP said:

Question for geotech experts out there. Does this portend the construction of a building here? Would such soil sampling be needed for a new bridge structure here where a bridge (and previously a concrete elevated ramp) had been here for 117 years?

Speaking from the architecture side, we typically ask for new soil borings regardless of what has been there for years previously.  Who knows if the soil is mostly loose brick, debris, garbage fill etc. around the area, which may not necessarily work for new column spread footings or wall footings..

Edited August 15, 20231 yr by Firenze98

33 minutes ago, coneflower said:

But wouldn't they already know this was coming and factor it into their plans?

 

perhaps, but he’s not that rich. so we’ll see what he can handle. based on his wealth i would guess one major project at a time tho.

24 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

 

perhaps, but he’s not that rich.

 

He's in the top 30 of richest people in the US with a net worth around ~24B.

 

Side note, can you share whatever you're smoking?

Edited August 15, 20231 yr by Clefan98

Only $24B?? Practically broke how embarrassing.

Yeah but inflation...and gas is going up again. What's a multi-billionaire to do?