June 12, 20241 yr 18 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said: Yeah don’t know why we’d want to take down our history just to make space for generic things that make us look like every other city That's probably what everyone was saying when the Van Sweringen brothers unveiled their plans for Terminal Tower complex.
June 12, 20241 yr 1 minute ago, LibertyBlvd said: That's probably what everyone was saying when the Van Sweringen brothers unveiled their plans for Terminal Tower complex. And as beautiful as Terminal Tower is, there is an argument to be made that the previous street grid that existed on the site is much better than it is now.
June 12, 20241 yr 16 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: That's probably what everyone was saying when the Van Sweringen brothers unveiled their plans for Terminal Tower complex. And I’d agree with them we lost some great looking buildings. But fairly understandably it would be hard to say no to a 700footer
June 12, 20241 yr Cleveland has done a great job to preserve many older buildings with smokestacks. My preference would be to see the riverfront and entry to the city a bit more modern. The new Cavs practice facility is a good step forward for the city. Edited June 12, 20241 yr by newyorker
June 12, 20241 yr Smokestacks are cool as hell. There are smokestacks in repurposed buildings all over the country and they're great placemarkers. We're an industrial country with an industrial past, let's embrace it.
June 12, 20241 yr Cleveland is ageless & timeless, with most of the eras displaying their artifacts and remnants, sometimes well, sometimes needing help. "Moving forward" by demolishing what a few don't like or they don't personally understand the appeal of, isn't actually stepping forward at all. Cleveland doesn't need to be a sleek imitation of some-other peer city to look incredible for visitors, or to make us proud at home. There are plenty of anodyne skylines around the USA, but they say nothing to anyone except that there is no visible past there. That's either because no history exists, or the folk there were too wrongly ashamed of their cool local stories to save any of it. The CTE Smokestack is a link in our chain that some other towns will never have and wish they did. From a farming trapping and milling town > an industrial town > a banking commerce, transport and engineering center > a manufacturing powerhouse > beacon of opportunity > immigration magnet > a Victorian/Edwardian/Gilded place > City Beautiful inspiration > center for Beaux-arts architecture > Burgeoning jazz age metropolis > a (mildly, lol) art-deco city> a creative design center > a mid century modern city > a brutalist city > internationalist-tower & urban renewal HQ> an early pioneer of interstate freeways destructing our close-in urban neighborhoods > exciting postmodern pop and flair > and a now a city with contemporary design aesthetics adding freshly-built landmarks to our rich mix of historical moments. Edited June 12, 20241 yr by ExPatClevGuy fiddled with sentences
June 12, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, X said: Some folks on here apparently would have demolished the stacks at the Powerhouse and Battery Park given the chance. All out of fear about what "message" it sends about where our city stands. It would have beeen small and sad to lose those smokestacks for that reason. I think saving those stacks sends the message that we are a city with a grand history, the pride to celebrate it, and the creative vision to repurpose it for the future. I love the smokestakes at the Powerhouse and Battery Park. I hate the one 2 blocks from PS. It's not the stack, it's the location for me.
June 12, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, cadmen said: I love the smokestakes at the Powerhouse and Battery Park. I hate the one 2 blocks from PS. It's not the stack, it's the location for me. This. 100%.
June 13, 20241 yr 23 minutes ago, ragarcia said: Lots of activity Is This the site where the Cavs Practice Facility/Cleveland Clinic Building going to be built
June 13, 20241 yr 21 hours ago, jmicha said: Smokestacks are cool as hell. There are smokestacks in repurposed buildings all over the country and they're great placemarkers. We're an industrial country with an industrial past, let's embrace it. Also, let us not forget that if the building can be salvaged, it is much less carbon intensive to renovate, repurpose and reposition the building for other uses than to demolish and build new. I personally would love to keep the building as it has character and contributes to a decent mixture of new and old design languages. Generic, hermetically sealed, glass towers with no regional vernacular can only take you so far.
June 14, 2024Jun 14 13 minutes ago, cadmen said: Outnumbered l see. I'm like the 300 Spartans minus 299 of them. I'm with you don't worry. I just usually keep quiet about talking about removing some historic structures because I noticed it always starts a big argument (and I can see it has yet again lol). If it was a cool looking stack like battery park or something im all for keeping it but it currently looks like a rusted pipe and imo doesn't add to the character of the area.
June 14, 2024Jun 14 It all comes down to whether or not LeBron wants to keep the stack there or not. Ok, ok, maybe this joke has lost it's legs.
June 14, 2024Jun 14 I’ll add my 2c as we’re leaning into this subject. I’m 100% supportive of preserving the factory itself. However, the smokestack is of zero visual, or architectural, value in my eyes. This is where I draw my (admittedly personal) distinction between a functional ‘smokestack’ like the one in question, which is simply a piece of metal tubing and a ‘chimney’, which can be of significant visual and architectural value, enhances the skyline and are often worth keeping. My hovercraft is full of eels
June 14, 2024Jun 14 4 hours ago, roman totale XVII said: I’ll add my 2c as we’re leaning into this subject. I’m 100% supportive of preserving the factory itself. However, the smokestack is of zero visual, or architectural, value in my eyes. This is where I draw my (admittedly personal) distinction between a functional ‘smokestack’ like the one in question, which is simply a piece of metal tubing and a ‘chimney’, which can be of significant visual and architectural value, enhances the skyline and are often worth keeping. Trying my best to get this comment deleted, but that's stunning - reminds me of the grand designs episode where they redid the water tower into a home. But back onto the subject I appreciate how the stack is perfectly centered looking south from Public Square lol
June 15, 2024Jun 15 10 hours ago, roman totale XVII said: I’ll add my 2c as we’re leaning into this subject. I’m 100% supportive of preserving the factory itself. However, the smokestack is of zero visual, or architectural, value in my eyes. This is where I draw my (admittedly personal) distinction between a functional ‘smokestack’ like the one in question, which is simply a piece of metal tubing and a ‘chimney’, which can be of significant visual and architectural value, enhances the skyline and are often worth keeping. That's not a bad point, but the moving bridges throughout the Flats are also undecorated. Yet they are a part of our city's visual identity, and with a little creativity can be quite beautiful (they used to be lit, as noted up thread).
June 15, 2024Jun 15 16 hours ago, GISguy said: But back onto the subject I appreciate how the stack is perfectly centered looking south from Public Square lol Throw some lighting or wording on it, would be a great landmark to pull people from public square
June 15, 2024Jun 15 16 hours ago, GISguy said: Trying my best to get this comment deleted, but that's stunning - reminds me of the grand designs episode where they redid the water tower into a home. But back onto the subject I appreciate how the stack is perfectly centered looking south from Public Square lol Yes. That is the exact view which is my reason for wanting it to disappear. Of course just as much as l don't like it at the same time that smokestack seems to be giving me the finger. Oh the irony.
June 15, 2024Jun 15 Good grief. I can't believe we're having a debate about whether a smokestack stays or goes. There are lots of other smokestacks in Cleveland that will still be around.
June 16, 2024Jun 16 11 hours ago, X said: The smokestack conversation is going in circles. Yes a lot of just blowing smoke at this point... 😉
June 20, 2024Jun 20 Not to resurrect the smokestack conversation, but I was just thinking that building is both an interesting and likely candidate for the downtown terminus point for the CVSR. Indeed, that seems to be what is implied in the Vision for the Valley. In that case the smokestack could serve as a cool way finding point. Maybe lit up with the letters CVSR and/or a train. Maybe not the ideal situation, but Bedrock doesn't seem interested in routing to either Tower City or B&O, and I think this could be a cool location slightly further upstream. At the very least, it would be an interesting case of adaptive reuse.
June 20, 2024Jun 20 Author CVSR would have to use a small portion of the to-be-vacated Canal Road right of way south of here for a track. Bedrock wasn't interested in letting CVSR use the right way north of here, but maybe they would welcome CVSR using a sliver of the right of way south of Cleveland Thermal? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 2024Jun 20 6 hours ago, Ethan said: In that case the smokestack could serve as a cool way finding point. Maybe lit up with the letters CVSR and/or a train. Simple lighting similar to Battery Park's saying "Cuyahoga Valley" or something like that would look really nice. Go crazy with some green lights to fit the National Park and Forest City themes. Have it on 3 sides. One towards Public Square, another towards Gateway, and the last facing the river front. It would probably become one of the most photographed things in the City. Edited June 20, 2024Jun 20 by PlanCleveland
June 20, 2024Jun 20 8 hours ago, Ethan said: Not to resurrect the smokestack conversation, but I was just thinking that building is both an interesting and likely candidate for the downtown terminus point for the CVSR. Indeed, that seems to be what is implied in the Vision for the Valley. In that case the smokestack could serve as a cool way finding point. Maybe lit up with the letters CVSR and/or a train. Maybe not the ideal situation, but Bedrock doesn't seem interested in routing to either Tower City or B&O, and I think this could be a cool location slightly further upstream. At the very least, it would be an interesting case of adaptive reuse. Does anyone want to speculate why a developer wouldn't want thousands and thousands of patrons dropped off right at their doorstep?
June 24, 2024Jun 24 I'm assuming the boom lifts on Eagle and Stones Levee bridges are for demolition prep? Work on (at least the lower half) of the new Eagle Ave bridge/ramp would likely need to coincide with work on the Cavs facility with how close they are. Construction phasing of the new bridge, its intersection with the new roadway closer to the river and the facility itself will be interesting to see.
July 3, 2024Jul 3 Author Next steps for Bedrock’s riverfront development By Ken Prendergast / July 3, 2024 On Friday July 12, representatives of Bedrock Real Estate will make a presentation to Cleveland’s City Planning Commission about the upcoming steps they will take to ready the site for their ambitious $3.5 billion riverfront development plan. But a majority of those early steps boil down to just one foundational word — infrastructure. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/07/03/next-steps-for-bedrocks-riverfront-development/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 3, 2024Jul 3 1 hour ago, KJP said: Next steps for Bedrock’s riverfront development By Ken Prendergast / July 3, 2024 On Friday, representatives of Bedrock Real Estate will make a presentation to Cleveland’s City Planning Commission about the upcoming steps they will take to ready the site for their ambitious $3.5 billion riverfront development plan. But a majority of those early steps boil down to just one foundational word — infrastructure. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/07/03/next-steps-for-bedrocks-riverfront-development/ Another great article. Bedrock really seems like an organization that has the proper vision for what Cleveland can be in the future. There are tons of economic, political and environmental trends that favor Cleveland in the long run. All the city needs are political and business leaders with the vision and ambition to capitalize on those trend.
July 3, 2024Jul 3 The problem with such a massive development is it will also take a massive amount of dollars and a massive amount of time. Better than the ulternative l guess.
July 3, 2024Jul 3 20 minutes ago, cadmen said: The problem with such a massive development is it will also take a massive amount of dollars and a massive amount of time. Better than the ulternative l guess. It will take time and money to build world class developments. It took over 4 years to develop the Golden Gate bridge - but I think that was worth it
July 3, 2024Jul 3 I wonder if they've come up with a solution for all the heavy truck through traffic on Huron. There was talk earlier of limited options for alternate routes. That wouldn't seem to fit well with their vision for a slimmed-down Huron with enhanced bike and pedestrian access.
July 3, 2024Jul 3 3 minutes ago, JohnSummit said: I wonder if they've come up with a solution for all the heavy truck through traffic on Huron. There was talk earlier of limited options for alternate routes. That wouldn't seem to fit well with their vision for a slimmed-down Huron with enhanced bike and pedestrian access. They really need to figure out how to get rid of all heavy truck traffic on Huron. It’s basically a bridge. Reducing heavy traffic, and for that matter as much vehicle traffic as possible will help extend the life of the roadway, and also, hopefully, contribute to less water intrusion into tower city, although that’s a never-ending battle for a whole host of reasons.
July 3, 2024Jul 3 Am I correct in interpreting that the proposed closure of Huron to cars has been revised down to a road diet?
July 4, 2024Jul 4 clinic peak performance center — https://www.instagram.com/p/C8y9sjrscEz/?igsh=MXJxNGR6Mm1oaGtmYw==
July 9, 2024Jul 9 cool flashback to tower city mall grand opening 1990 — https://www.instagram.com/p/C8uaw9Ou5ce/?igsh=eGE0eHBzenRyMXRk
July 10, 2024Jul 10 I remember it well. Cleveland seemed to be on the verge of a renaissance in the 90s - Tower City, Galleria, Jacobs Field, Gund Arena, Convocation Center, Key Tower, Rock Hall, Science Center, Waterfront Line, new hotels, the Flats were hopping (it was the 2nd biggest visitor attraction in the state after Cedar Point), Playhouse Square was coming back to life, Continental hub was growing at Hopkins. Yes, that was a pretty good era for Cleveland, well, except for the loss of the Browns for 3 seasons. Although it did result in a new football stadium. Edited July 11, 2024Jul 11 by LibertyBlvd
July 10, 2024Jul 10 Author Those were tourist attractions and bright shiny toys. Now we're building housing in the city at faster rates than anywhere else in the county (and possibly the metro area). Now the city is creating job-ready sites for the jobs. The Riverview development appears to be a compilation of all three (how's that for bringing us back on topic? 😉 ). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 10, 2024Jul 10 ^ and unlike 1990 that is the result of an abundance of jobs in the area and a generally roaring economy.
July 10, 2024Jul 10 8 hours ago, KJP said: Those were tourist attractions and bright shiny toys. Who knew that building high-end malls in the city with a declining and poor population would not succeed? /s I do remember the optimism of the 90s with all those "silver bullet" projects. But not encouraging neighborhood development to create a more holistic approach was short sighted (I'm still waiting for the west bank of the Flats to get developed decades later, after thinking it had to be imminent at the time). I do seem to remember residential towers being part of the Tower City plans at some point but those obviously fell by the wayside, so maybe they'll finally arrive with Gilbert's plans. I always thought Forest City should have just converted the Terminal Tower to residential as part of the Tower City development at the time.
July 10, 2024Jul 10 10 minutes ago, Rustbelter said: Who knew that building high-end malls in the city with a declining and poor population would not succeed? /s Not saying you're wrong at all. But there has to be more to it than that, because same thing happened to downtown malls in Columbus and San Diego. I wish we had more insight into what Gilbert is planning for the former mall. The overall project looks pretty sweet but who is going to fill all this space? Edited July 10, 2024Jul 10 by surfohio
July 10, 2024Jul 10 33 minutes ago, surfohio said: Not saying you're wrong at all. But there has to be more to it than that, because same thing happened to downtown malls in Columbus and San Diego. Fair points, there are not many US cities that support a thriving downtown shopping district. And even with those it's not in the form of a mall. Best case for Tower City is probably offices and maybe some outlet type stores mixed in with local. Even then I'd think Cleveland would need to grow the population of downtown and directly adjacent neighborhoods by a substantial amount to sustain it. I actually lived in San Diego in the early 2000's and remember Horton Plaza having failing stores back then. Haven't been back there in many years but I assume it's probably done. Tower City is very well done despite it's struggles, whereas Horton Plaza didn't seem worth redeeming.
July 11, 2024Jul 11 4 hours ago, mrnyc said: ^ and unlike 1990 that is the result of an abundance of jobs in the area and a generally roaring economy. 1990 Cleveland had a much stronger economy and an additional 125,000 city residents. There were a dozen fortune 500s, a thriving financial district, the Flats, and a still packed downtown during the day. Civic pride was palatable that decade too. That was the time to take a chance with a high end mall.
July 11, 2024Jul 11 26 minutes ago, TBideon said: 1990 Cleveland had a much stronger economy and an additional 125,000 city residents. There were a dozen fortune 500s, a thriving financial district, the Flats, and a still packed downtown during the day. Civic pride was palatable that decade too. That was the time to take a chance with a high end mall. true, but brick and mortar retail struggles today aren’t just a cle issue. upside is by the articles i see i would guess there are a lot more jobs available now and easier to get. also housing is easier to get with lower mortgage rates and more variety.
Create an account or sign in to comment