August 7, 201410 yr The article says the buyer is a California based investment firm (unnamed). What I found interesting is the statement that Forest City wants to maintain a share of the Avenue and enter into a joint venture for its redevelopment.
August 7, 201410 yr Props to p28curry. The dude was early on this. Thanks KJP. You should watch this closely...my understanding is that not the case.
August 7, 201410 yr I wonder if the 50 percent stake in the avenue will lead to a change in the mall management group to get potentially more attractive stores.
August 7, 201410 yr Forest City has a buyer for most of Tower City Center. But FCE didn't even have the property listed for sale! http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/08/forest_city_has_potential_buye.html Well this is potentially major news... Let's hope this leads to positive change at Tower City Anyone else find it ridiculous that Forest City is still using the "Avenue" name that they haven't even bothered to promote since 1993?
August 7, 201410 yr Whomever is the buyer I hope they infuse some new life into The Avenue. A shelf life for a typical mall is ten years before it becomes obsolete. It must update and stay with the time or (as can be seen) left to become a shell.
August 7, 201410 yr There's so much potential for the Avenue, esp with renewed interest in downtown and the next-door casino generating the extra traffic -- including the comp-ed rooms for high-frequency gamblers in the Ritz. And of course, the Avenue is still such an attractive setting, as malls go, and then the great connectivity with all the buildings and the Rapid, of course.
August 7, 201410 yr Okay, just to be clear here....are we going to use "The Avenue" to describe what we've been calling Tower City Mall for 15 years? I'm fine with it, I just think it's important that everyone on UO thinks and speaks in unison. A united front!
August 7, 201410 yr Author It's been called The Avenue since 1990. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 7, 201410 yr It's been called The Avenue since 1990. I realize this. But the name has long fallen out of the public lexicon. Which, I suppose that happens when you don't market your place of business for nearly twenty years.
August 7, 201410 yr I don't know that it ever was in the public lexicon. Most people I know refer to the mall simply as "Tower City" and have no idea that "Tower City" actually refers to the entire complex. I was in that boat in my pre-UO days. I'd never heard of 'the Avenue'. If I said I was going to "Tower City", it meant I was going to the mall. Honestly, it still does.
August 7, 201410 yr the avenue make me think about the avenue district, then I have to make the step to realize that its Tower City. I vote for TC
August 7, 201410 yr I don't know that it ever was in the public lexicon. Most people I know refer to the mall simply as "Tower City" and have no idea that "Tower City" actually refers to the entire complex. I was in that boat in my pre-UO days. I'd never heard of 'the Avenue'. If I said I was going to "Tower City", it meant I was going to the mall. Honestly, it still does. Sure, it was in all those awesome tv commercials when they first opened. "Come on down to the Avenue-hoo!" Maybe they're on youtube or something. They were really well done.
August 8, 201410 yr Do we really want mall retail downtown? Right now id like to have retail anywhere, but id greatly prefer it to be on the street and not in a mall.
August 8, 201410 yr Have my prayers to the God of Retail & Excess been answered? I thought you were the God of Retail & Excess? Or have I been praying to the wrong Deity?
August 8, 201410 yr Do we really want mall retail downtown? Right now id like to have retail anywhere, but id greatly prefer it to be on the street and not in a mall. This would be a better discussion if the mall didn't already exist. Are you asking for a ghost-mall in the center of the city? Also, and maybe i'm wrong, but I get the impression that certain brands are much more comfortable in a mall setting (store A wont open unless store B is there too type stuff) than in stand-alone stores.
August 8, 201410 yr If population and visitor trends continue upwards then I think we can definitely support a retail mix including the mall and street retail. The fact that there's virtually no retail now means that there's pined up demand...demand that will only continue to grow as people move and visit downtown.
August 8, 201410 yr Author It will be an outlet mall. You heard it here first. You shouldn't be revealing client secrets! But the buyer most definitely wants to enhance the retail offerings at Tower City, which has survived on commuter/spectator-sport/food-court retail. Tower City has to start adding some retail for residential clients. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 8, 201410 yr If population and visitor trends continue upwards then I think we can definitely support a retail mix including the mall and street retail. The fact that there's virtually no retail now means that there's pined up demand...demand that will only continue to grow as people move and visit downtown. We'd have to grow at Toronto's rate if we really expect to go from virtually no retail, to retail lining the streets and filling the shopping malls. Honestly Id be fine with Tower City keeping the retail level it has now, while the nicer stores line Prospect, Euclid, and Huron into Playhouse Square. I also would be fine with seeing the Tower City space reimagined. It really is amazing what Philadelphia was able to do with retail in center city. Its a shame we are always a few decades behind east coast cities in revitalization efforts. Maybe we can learn from them.
August 8, 201410 yr ^The Philadelphia region is 6 mil strong. It's part of the Northeast megalopolis. It's the fourth largest media market and 100 miles from NYC. The comparison is not valid.
August 13, 201410 yr Author Hertz Investment Group emerges as prospective buyer for most of Tower City Center complex By STAN BULLARD August 13, 2014 2:17 PM The prospective buyer of most of Tower City Center is Hertz Investment Group, a Santa Monica, Calif.,-based specialist in downtown office towers with a taste for landmarks and markets overlooked nationally, such as Cleveland. Although talks only recently got serious enough that Forest City Enterprises Inc. (NYSE: FCEA, FCEB) disclosed in its second-quarter earnings release on Aug. 6 the discussions of a sale, Hertz has been working on a deal with the Cleveland-based developer for almost a year, according to one of three sources who identified Hertz as the bidder for the properties. All three declined to be identified because they are not authorized by the principals to discuss the proposed transaction. Hertz, founded in 1977 by Judah Hertz, its CEO, has a portfolio of 48 office buildings, representing upwards of 15 million square feet of office space. The Hertz website describes its focus as buying exceptional properties from prominent high-rise office buildings to shopping centers selling fashion, gifts and jewelry as well as luxury hotels and apartments. The company notes it invests in landmark properties — certainly an apt description for Tower City Center with 42-story tall Terminal Tower, long an icon of the city’s skyline. READ MORE AT: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140813/FREE/140819896/hertz-investment-group-emerges-as-prospective-buyer-for-most-of Hertz Investment Group emerges as potential buyer for most of Tower City complex in Cleveland By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer on August 13, 2014 at 2:50 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A southern California company that owns office buildings across the Midwest could be the next owner of most of the Tower City complex in downtown Cleveland. Local real estate professionals say Hertz Investment Group of Santa Monica is negotiating to buy offices, retail and parking at Tower City. The company, which owns properties in cities including Indianapolis, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati, is a long-term investor with a track record of buying both stable assets and buildings that need some help. Forest City Enterprises, Inc., the publicly traded company that owns the Tower City real estate, divulged the potential sales in a regulatory filing last week. READ MORE AT: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/08/hertz_investment_group_emerges.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 13, 201410 yr I really like the outlet shopping idea. Either way, it sounds like the new owners have a reputation of putting money into its properties.
August 14, 201410 yr As much as I would love to see retail retun I would rather see it back on the streets of Euclid Ave. I don't see outlets paying high rents in a downtown location. Thinking outside the box what if The Avenue turns into the lost Central Market when Gateway was built. Local residents have a direct access with links to public transportation.
August 14, 201410 yr Tower City would work well for large outlets and box-type stores. A Nordtrom's Rac, a Bed Bath and Beyond, a Best Buy, and Target. Add in a few big chain restaurants (TGIF and Cheesecake Factory, Maggiono's and you have a niche filled.
August 14, 201410 yr Tower City would work well for large outlets and box-type stores. A Nordtrom's Rac, a Bed Bath and Beyond, a Best Buy, and Target. Add in a few big chain restaurants (TGIF and Cheesecake Factory, Maggiono's and you have a niche filled. The challenge is that these stores are already in suburban locations - close to customers and with free parking. There are not enough downtown residents to support.. and they need to draw on weekends, too, when office workers are home. I can surely see restaurants of the type noted being targeted by Stark for the Gateway project, just announced, but TC will be a tough sell, I fear.
August 14, 201410 yr If the new owner lowers rent enough it might be enough to entice a new retail tenant and then you could have a snowball effect take place where one store leads to many and then TC becomes more of a destination again
August 14, 201410 yr Author Tower City would work well for large outlets and box-type stores. A Nordtrom's Rac, a Bed Bath and Beyond, a Best Buy, and Target. Add in a few big chain restaurants (TGIF and Cheesecake Factory, Maggiono's and you have a niche filled. The challenge is that these stores are already in suburban locations - close to customers and with free parking. There are not enough downtown residents to support.. and they need to draw on weekends, too, when office workers are home. I can surely see restaurants of the type noted being targeted by Stark for the Gateway project, just announced, but TC will be a tough sell, I fear. I think we're underselling the market. Not only are there 12,500 residents downtown (soon to be 15,000) which will be larger than 32 Cuyahoga County municipalities including Beachwood, Bedford, Bedford Hts, Brecksville, Brooklyn, Highland Heights, Independence, Lyndhurst, Olmsted Falls, Richmond Heights, Seven Hills, University Heights, Valley View and Warrenville Heights http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2014/05/clevelands_population_slips_in.html#incart_river. Of the 57 political jurisdictions in the county, all but six lost population (four grew slightly, two didn't change) and I suspect their household incomes aren't growing either. Downtown is growing rapidly. I don't know about its average income per household, however. Some of the retail/restaurants you noted are in some of those suburbs that are smaller than downtown but are next to interchanges on highways which have 30,000 to 130,000 vehicles per day on them (cars, trucks and buses -- average occupancy per car is 1.2 people). So they can draw well in excess of their immediately surrounding populations. But so can Tower City Center. It is at the center of a rail system with routes extending outward in five directions, plus a BRT line. Combined, these transit lines are used by 53,000 persons per day and some 80-90 percent of them are boarding or alighting at Tower City Center. There are also dozens of bus lines converging on Public Square which are used by another 55,000 people per day. Add to that the tens of thousands of office workers downtown every day, 7 million tourists/conventioneers descending on downtown each year, and the 3 million sports spectators coming downtown per year. Plus there's tons of special events, 5k/10k races, and more. With those numbers, if a real estate firm can't attract some outlet stores, a couple of urban-designed big boxes and some big chain restaurants, then they aren't trying very hard (ref: Forest City). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 14, 201410 yr How feasible would it be to convert one of the TC buildings to residential? If that component were added to the complex, it would truly be mixed-use. A person who lives, works and-- depending on the retail that goes in-- shops at TC could theoretically never have to leave the place. A true city-within-a-city.
August 15, 201410 yr How feasible would it be to convert one of the TC buildings to residential? If that component were added to the complex, it would truly be mixed-use. A person who lives, works and-- depending on the retail that goes in-- shops at TC could theoretically never have to leave the place. A true city-within-a-city. How realistic would it be to finish the Tower City redevelopment? If I'm not mistaken there was to be a residential tower added before the Neiman Marcus deal fell apart.
August 15, 201410 yr How feasible would it be to convert one of the TC buildings to residential? If that component were added to the complex, it would truly be mixed-use. A person who lives, works and-- depending on the retail that goes in-- shops at TC could theoretically never have to leave the place. A true city-within-a-city. How realistic would it be to finish the Tower City redevelopment? If I'm not mistaken there was to be a residential tower added before the Neiman Marcus deal fell apart. I think that's pretty much ancient history. I remember in the 90s when FCE had that plastic model in Terminal Tower's (amazing) foyer off Public Square of the "full" Tower City developments, including more than one residential high-rises south of Huron, which is the exact same footprint Gilbert has planned for Horeshoe II... So much for the planned TC residential component.
August 15, 201410 yr How feasible would it be to convert one of the TC buildings to residential? If that component were added to the complex, it would truly be mixed-use. A person who lives, works and-- depending on the retail that goes in-- shops at TC could theoretically never have to leave the place. A true city-within-a-city. How realistic would it be to finish the Tower City redevelopment? If I'm not mistaken there was to be a residential tower added before the Neiman Marcus deal fell apart. I think that's pretty much ancient history. I remember in the 90s when FCE had that plastic model in Terminal Tower's (amazing) foyer off Public Square of the "full" Tower City developments, including more than one residential high-rises south of Huron, which is the exact same footprint Gilbert has planned for Horeshoe II... So much for the planned TC residential component. Their along-the-riverfront development concept looked tremendous. It's really too bad that didn't happen. Those with Casino Phase II on the horizon maybe we'll see some semblance of that original vision taking shape. Or the riverfront will be a parking lot.
August 15, 201410 yr That's a shame. Apartments would have definitely been a game changer for the retail at TC. Huron Avenue with buildings on both sides would've made for an interesting streetscape too. Here's hoping Phase II of the casino at least follows a similar design.
August 15, 201410 yr Just a dream here, but since the Ritz is now over 20 years old, convert it into luxury apartments rather than refurbish the hotel, and construct a new, larger luxury hotel as part of phase 2 casino, maybe a Caesar's Palace, keeping with the Caesar's Entertainment partnership with Rock Gaming.
August 15, 201410 yr Author Just a dream here, but since the Ritz is now over 20 years old, convert it into luxury apartments rather than refurbish the hotel, and construct a new, larger luxury hotel as part of phase 2 casino, maybe a Caesar's Palace, keeping with the Caesar's Entertainment partnership with Rock Gaming. Who knows what the buyer actually has in mind for Tower City. Until we know, it's best to leave the speculation to one of the discussion threads. EDIT: like this one..... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28229.msg721943.html#msg721943 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 16, 201410 yr I always thought that the corner of W Superior and W Prospect would be a great place to build some apartments (right above that ugly parking). But yeah, sorry, back to the topic of actual development - not speculation.
August 16, 201410 yr I always thought that the corner of W Superior and W Prospect would be a great place to build some apartments (right above that ugly parking). But yeah, sorry, back to the topic of actual development - not speculation. Ya, that eastbound view leaves a lot to be desired. Even if nothing were built, something needs to be done to beautify that parking entrance.
August 16, 201410 yr I wonder if the 50 percent stake in the avenue will lead to a change in the mall management group to get potentially more attractive stores. I pray to the luxury retail Gods it does! I've been praying for a Barneys, NM for years. Hell at this point I would settle for a flagship Bloomingdale's.
August 16, 201410 yr Tower City would work well for large outlets and box-type stores. A Nordtrom's Rac, a Bed Bath and Beyond, a Best Buy, and Target. Add in a few big chain restaurants (TGIF and Cheesecake Factory, Maggiono's and you have a niche filled.
August 16, 201410 yr As much as I would love to see retail retun I would rather see it back on the streets of Euclid Ave. I don't see outlets paying high rents in a downtown location. Thinking outside the box what if The Avenue turns into the lost Central Market when Gateway was built. Local residents have a direct access with links to public transportation. Completely agree on the first two points. However, if outlets cannot afford the rent, vendors certainly would not be able to. I think the movies needs to move to a street level location with ground floor retail. If there was a certain section designated for a market that would be nice, but not the entire mall.
August 18, 201410 yr Author With sale of most of Tower City assets, Forest City 'chopping' away at risk By STAN BULLARD Originally Published: August 17, 2014 4:30 AM Modified: August 17, 2014 10:33 AM Forest City Enterprises Inc. executives knew the announcement contained in the company's second-quarter financial results, released Aug. 6, would be big news in its hometown. And they recognized the news would have personal meaning for the company's employees, especially 600 at its headquarters in Terminal Tower. David LaRue, Forest City's CEO, used a voicemail message to give them the word simultaneously: The company is in talks to sell parts of Tower City Center, but not Terminal Tower. Forest City's headquarters will stay in Cleveland. The personal touch is a close-to-home example of the difficult path Forest City has trod for years to sell billions in assets to reduce risk and leverage in its far-flung, $9 billion portfolio. READ MORE AT: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140817/SUB1/308179978/with-sale-of-most-of-tower-city-assets-forest-city-chopping-away-at "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 21, 201410 yr Translation: We'll build residential developments like crazy in Brooklyn, but ignore our HQ city.
August 21, 201410 yr Id rather they sell all their cleveland properties if they aren't planning on investing in them.
August 21, 201410 yr Author Translation: We'll build residential developments like crazy in Brooklyn, but ignore our HQ city. Because we can't make enough money in Cleveland to keep those greedy bastards on Wall Street happy. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 24, 201410 yr Forest City is a successful homegrown company HQed in CLE. They do a great job maintaining Terminal Tower. They do uber-big developments these days. I don't think what they do now is right for Cleveland. Give the Marons, the K&Ds, the Starks, and the Geis, and the Optimas keep doing what they are doing and the city will keep growing.
August 24, 201410 yr Forest City is a successful homegrown company HQed in CLE. They do a great job maintaining Terminal Tower. They do uber-big developments these days. I don't think what they do now is right for Cleveland. Give the Marons, the K&Ds, the Starks, and the Geis, and the Optimas keep doing what they are doing and the city will keep growing. I disagree, considering they have projects in Dallas, Denver and Boston that, on the surface, I think would be appropriate in Cleveland. Not all their projects are like Atlantic Yards Pacific Park in Brooklyn.
September 19, 201410 yr Forest City Enterprises terminates sale agreement for three Tower City Center properties Forest City Enterprises Inc. (NYSE: FCEA and FCEB) announced it has “amicably agreed to terminate the purchase and sale agreement” for three Tower City Center properties in downtown Cleveland. “In the course of finalizing the negotiations, the company and the prospective buyer were unable to reach mutually agreeable terms,” Cleveland-based Forest City said in a news release. The properties in play are the Skylight Office Tower, Post Office Plaza and a portion of The Avenue shopping center. http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140919/FREE/140919750
September 19, 201410 yr Interesting... I wonder what Forest City wanted for the properties, since Cleveland is no longer a market they are willing to hold properties in. Another note: A few Forest City reps (including Jonathan Ratner) will be at the Flats master-plan unveiling next week. I know that's getting off topic; but maybe, JUST MAYBE, they're toying with the idea of investing here. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
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