Last day to say goodbye http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/07/hard_rock_cafe_at_tower_city_c.html

Last day to say goodbye http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/07/hard_rock_cafe_at_tower_city_c.html

 

The Hard Rock Cafe is an anachronism in this time of the internet.  I remember when I was younger, you had to have been there to get a shirt... it was so popular to have one and wear it to school!  If their food was better, this would be a little sadder.  And I will be sad that there will be an empty space.  Hopefully, it will be filled again soon.

Michelle Jarboe ‏mjarboe[/member]  4h4 hours ago

Hard Rock Cafe sign comes down, as downtown #CLE restaurant ends its run at @ShopTowerCity.

 

I'm am utterly shocked the city didn't step in to save the guitar itself, unless I'm missing something. 

 

It reminds me when the Portland OR sign was saved, which used to be a furniture store

I know several have commented that the Hard Rock is a has been and that its food was mediocre... I don't care, I still thinks this sucks for Tower City as well as downtown.

Btw, Philly has recently expanded their HR and, as many probably know, Philly's Center City is not only much bigger and busier than downtown Cleveland, Philadelphia is one of the culinary capitals of the United States.

I'm am utterly shocked the city didn't step in to save the guitar itself, unless I'm missing something. 

 

It reminds me when the Portland OR sign was saved, which used to be a furniture store

 

I agree. With the different kinds of guitars around town, that could have easily been repourposed and fit right in.

Bleh. The vast majority of commenters (both at the P-D and Scene) were unapologetic about their disdain for Hard Rock. The service was lackluster; the food was terrible; and the decor was nothing special, considering it's the run-of-the-mill memorabilia that can be found in any Hard Rock cafe. They have a good sized warehouse, like Cracker Barrel, where they store memorabilia for use in new locations. A designer comes in, pulls out a few items, and slaps it up in store.

 

The writing was on the wall when the Hard Rock opened at the racino in Randall Park of all places.

 

I'm sold on chains and believe they are an integral part of any downtown and city, but the city has long deserved a better restaurant than Hard Rock. Its absence leaves only Morton's on that street, correct?

I'm am utterly shocked the city didn't step in to save the guitar itself

 

"The city" has been a little busy lately. :)

I'm sold on chains and believe they are an integral part of any downtown and city, but the city has long deserved a better restaurant than Hard Rock. Its absence leaves only Morton's on that street, correct?

 

Unless you include the Hyde Park Steakhouse at 123 W. Prospect. It is on the same street, but in the SW HQ building.

Bleh. The vast majority of commenters (both at the P-D and Scene) were unapologetic about their disdain for Hard Rock. The service was lackluster; the food was terrible; and the decor was nothing special, considering it's the run-of-the-mill memorabilia that can be found in any Hard Rock cafe. They have a good sized warehouse, like Cracker Barrel, where they store memorabilia for use in new locations. A designer comes in, pulls out a few items, and slaps it up in store.

 

The writing was on the wall when the Hard Rock opened at the racino in Randall Park of all places.

 

I'm sold on chains and believe they are an integral part of any downtown and city, but the city has long deserved a better restaurant than Hard Rock. Its absence leaves only Morton's on that street, correct?

 

The Racino at Thistledown (across from Randall Park) is owned by Gilbert and company.

 

The Hard Rock is at Northfield Park.

Thanks - I had my venues off. :)

A few fun tidbits to hold us over for real announcements:

 

The Ritz Carlton has been in the planning stages for years to renovate. They were ready a year or so ago to go ahead with an exterior renovation which was posted about here. That was all put on hold during the Gilbert acquisition. It sounds like the renovation might now be interior and exterior. I don't have much info on this but at various times the RC has thought of re-evaluating its street level space that is no longer used. At one time the renovation involved swapping the locations of Muse and the front desk lobby. But they also have the entire Century restaurant space. This could all be an exciting part of the Tower City renovation.

 

From what I'm hearing about TC itself... Food court goes. Theater stays and is overhauled into a high end theater (along the lines of recliners, bar, dinner service etc.).  Also the goal is high end retail. Bringing it back to how it started. I'm a little concerned about how this could all work especially with Nucleus also competing for the same retailers but it's exciting nonetheless.

 

Finally the residential component will be very high end and very expensive. Definitely at or near the top of what downtown rents currently are at.

 

All of this information comes from various reliable sources, but of course it's all just speculation until official word is made. But I'm confident enough in it that I thought I would share to give us something to talk about until announcements are made!

 

 

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I would be very happy if the food court goes.

... Food court goes...

 

I hope Anderson's BBQ could find another home in that case. Also, I'll miss doing laps around the food court every time I'm at Tower City to get the free samples

I was thinking the Arcade should be jumping to land any quality retail displaced from Tower City...

 

 

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^^

Finally the residential component will be very high end and very expensive. Definitely at or near the top of what downtown rents currently are at.

 

 

Is this in reference to Terminal Tower, or is there something else planned at Tower City that I missed?

Finally the residential component will be very high end and very expensive. Definitely at or near the top of what downtown rents currently are at.

 

 

Is this in reference to Terminal Tower, or is there something else planned at Tower City that I missed?

 

Terminal Tower. Not sure if anything additional is planned.

 

 

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With the addition of a residential component, Tower City would essentially become a city-within-a-city. The only thing that would make this more perfect would be new residential high-rises over the parking lots between Huron and Canal Roads.

Gilbert's Tower City co-owner developed one  of the country's best upscale malls, Somerset Collection in Detroit - so they know more than a bit about that kind of retail.

 

However, since the original Tower City mall opening (and effective upscale closing), Legacy, Crocker, a revamped Eton - and soon to be Pinecrest - have all opened - and the retailers to fill a mall like Tower City - when stores they want will only have one or two local locations and are already covered - will be few and far betwenn (unless they go for the top top upscale retailers reserved for the handful of largest cities... or a food destination like Eataly, etc...). I am worried about their prospects.

 

With downtown outlets previously being deemed unlikely, but then the Burke-area outlets being announced, I would love to see Tower City swoop in and steal the ideaa instead of the controversial lakefront plan.makes more "destination" sense.

 

 

With the addition of a residential component, Tower City would essentially become a city-within-a-city. The only thing that would make this more perfect would be new residential high-rises over the parking lots between Huron and Canal Roads.

 

I would think the Landmark Office Building (if Sherwin Williams builds a new HQ tower) would be next to add to the residential offerings at Tower City before new construction is considered. The subsidies are better for renovating historic buildings.

So a mall with no food court? That's odd but interesting. Excited to hear about a theater overhaul but hopefully they do have some mid range affordable stores for the average Joe to shop at (American Eagle, H&M type budget). If they don't I cant afford to shop there! Lol but I'm still Excited though!

 

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I wonder if they would try to put food court type establishments in the empty store fronts around TC. Although the food court isn't the best people still want a place to grab a quick place to eat. When I worked down there people didn't even want

to walk to 4th for things. So I wonder if Gilbert will place food establishments outside of the complex where he still can profit, while freeing up space in the mall.

 

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I wonder if they would try to put food court type establishments in the empty store fronts around TC. Although the food court isn't the best people still want a place to grab a quick place to eat. When I worked down there people didn't even want

to walk to 4th for things. So I wonder if Gilbert will place food establishments outside of the complex where he still can profit, while freeing up space in the mall.

 

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Especially in the winter (or even summertime when it's raining), it was nice to be able to just go down to the food court for a quick lunch.  Didn't need to get your coat, walk out side somewhere to get food and then come back.  Was a nice plus to be able to get lunch without worrying about the weather.

Gilbert's Tower City co-owner developed one  of the country's best upscale malls, Somerset Collection in Detroit - so they know more than a bit about that kind of retail.

 

However, since the original Tower City mall opening (and effective upscale closing), Legacy, Crocker, a revamped Eton - and soon to be Pinecrest - have all opened - and the retailers to fill a mall like Tower City - when stores they want will only have one or two local locations and are already covered - will be few and far betwenn (unless they go for the top top upscale retailers reserved for the handful of largest cities... or a food destination like Eataly, etc...). I am worried about their prospects.

 

With downtown outlets previously being deemed unlikely, but then the Burke-area outlets being announced, I would love to see Tower City swoop in and steal the ideaa instead of the controversial lakefront plan.makes more "destination" sense.

 

That's not going to happen. Even when they were discussing possibly putting outlets in TC, they were always of the more upscale variety. There's never been a plan to do what they're planning on the lakefront (nor should they, in my opinion. TC should be for upscale). The fact of the matter is we've never seen anyone run TC that actually knew what they were doing. Gilbert and his team, they know how to get this done.

I like the high end residential idea and the rehab of the movie theater. Instead of removing the food court, can it be rehabbed? There's not a lot of places for fast/cheap food downtown and I think it does serve the working lunch crowd and transit riders. I just don't think high end retail will work right now. High end malls in this area traditionally bring in the suburbanites but there's also a mass transit hub in the same building which sends them running for the hills. I feel strongly about bringing in retail that supports or will support the residents like a market, drug store, home goods, daycare, gym, coffee/donuts, restaurants, etc... Once you have a good base of supportive retail then you can bring in a secondary retail function like high end but you can't put all your chips in the high end basket or you haven't learned from the past.

The first thing I thought of was the impact to the Film Festival... but I'm biased.

I like the high end residential idea and the rehab of the movie theater. Instead of removing the food court, can it be rehabbed? There's not a lot of places for fast/cheap food downtown and I think it does serve the working lunch crowd and transit riders. I just don't think high end retail will work right now. High end malls in this area traditionally bring in the suburbanites but there's also a mass transit hub in the same building which sends them running for the hills. I feel strongly about bringing in retail that supports or will support the residents like a market, drug store, home goods, daycare, gym, coffee/donuts, restaurants, etc... Once you have a good base of supportive retail then you can bring in a secondary retail function like high end but you can't put all your chips in the high end basket or you haven't learned from the past.

 

I don't think they want to wait that long for that secondary retail function to develop. It seems to me like we may be thinking about their plans too small  and too regionally. I don't even think they're going to be marketing this thing to locals. It seems like they're going to use this to be more touristy, attract people from the suburbs, people who work downtown and mainly, people who are here visiting. That's what it seems like to me, leveraging the casino and the hotel and building off of that. So I don't even think they're attempting to target locals, other than the residents that will be actually living in terminal tower. I'm optimistic because as someone pointed out earlier, Gilbert's TC co-owner has done this before in Detroit.

If the Terminal Tower is going to be residential, it shouldn't be anything but high end.  It will just be interesting to see if K&D can do high end while cutting their usual corners.   

I like the high end residential idea and the rehab of the movie theater. Instead of removing the food court, can it be rehabbed? There's not a lot of places for fast/cheap food downtown and I think it does serve the working lunch crowd and transit riders. I just don't think high end retail will work right now. High end malls in this area traditionally bring in the suburbanites but there's also a mass transit hub in the same building which sends them running for the hills. I feel strongly about bringing in retail that supports or will support the residents like a market, drug store, home goods, daycare, gym, coffee/donuts, restaurants, etc... Once you have a good base of supportive retail then you can bring in a secondary retail function like high end but you can't put all your chips in the high end basket or you haven't learned from the past.

 

I don't think they want to wait that long for that secondary retail function to develop. It seems to me like we may be thinking about their plans too small  and too regionally. I don't even think they're going to be marketing this thing to locals. It seems like they're going to use this to be more touristy, attract people from the suburbs, people who work downtown and mainly, people who are here visiting. That's what it seems like to me, leveraging the casino and the hotel and building off of that. So I don't even think they're attempting to target locals, other than the residents that will be actually living in terminal tower. I'm optimistic because as someone pointed out earlier, Gilbert's TC co-owner has done this before in Detroit.

 

Looking at where the wealth is in greater Cleveland, TC is going out of the way to get high end as compared to Crocker and Legacy. Poverty rate in the city rules out a huge chunk of local residents. The rest may shop at TC but there are a faction that won't due to what they see as "safety concerns" which we know is BS but Cleveland.com-ers do exist. With all that said, you may be right in assuming that this will be a tourist attraction that supports the casino like the hotel does. A place for non-gamblers to spend time and money while the people who brought them gamble. The thing I'm worried about is the 5 months (or more) of brutal cold and rain where tourism may fall off. Businesses during this time rely on locals and special events to bring in customers and I don't know if that's enough knowing that past tries at this have failed.

 

To pull this off I think there needs to be a huge push to market this high end mall as THE thing in the city. Bigger than the Rock Hall, East 4th, and the West Side Market. There needs to be signage on the building, highway signage, bus tours from other close by cities, TV commercials, etc... If Gilbert's group can do all this, it may work but I pick places like the Cleveland Clothing Store over Bergdorfs any day so I may not be the target consumer. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it works tho, if this is indeed the plan.

I have always thought that TC should cater to the rail commuter, and the out-of-towner crowd versus the wealthiest of greater Cleveland.  Similar to 30th street station in Philly.  I think the food court should remain, albeit smaller, and I think the upper two floors of the mall should be leased for office space.  Stores that offer incidentals, cheap clothing that a traveler might have forgot to pack, souvenir store, a CVS or Walgreens and maybe something that caters to the winner at the Casino. 

If the casino demographic in Cleveland is anything like it is in Cincinnati (and I have a feeling it is), high end retail is not going to get much support from that crowd.  It seems to me the high-end retail sector is already pretty well established in the Beechwood area, and it'd be an uphill battle to convince retailers to either move from that area to downtown, or to locate downtown over going to Beechwood, where the money is and where there is already a concentration of similar retailers.  I know TC used to be very high end for a brief period of time when it opened, but I just don't see that happening in this day and age, where many retailers are struggling and closing stores.  DT Cleveland has very little retail presence at all, so it would seem odd to go from basically nothing to luxury all at once.  Luxury retail also doesn't do much to help the livability of the growing residential population of downtown and the inner core neighborhoods that are experiencing growth.  IMO, TC should try to focus on landing some mid-market retail options, and focus on the needs of the downtown residents and transit users that pass through the place daily, as those two segments represent the largest core user groups of the mall.  I don't think Cleveland (or any Ohio city) should be relying on tourists to support retail.  It'd be great if Tower City could function like the Forum Shops at Caesar's Palace, but Jack Casino is no CP, and Cleveland is no Vegas. Personally, I like the idea of leaving the lower level of the mall for retail, retaining a small, upgraded foodcourt (look up the food court at Santa Monica Place for an example of a well executed, upscale type of food court), and converting the upper floors of the mall into office space.  Give the retailers even more immediate potential customers, and remove some of the glut of retail space, which should create more of a market for street level retail in the rest of downtown, including new developments such as Nucleus. 

Keep in mind though that with the way the economy is and especially with online shopping now, mid market brick and mortar shops are struggling across the country, especially mall retailers. The only ones really doing well are high end and discount retailers. I think at least in the short and medium term, high end or outlet shops have a much better chance of thriving in TC than your Crocker Park or Southpark mall stores.

 

However, I would like to see them bring in some mid range stores that we currently don't have in the market like Uniqlo, Super Dry, Armani Exchange or Topman/Topshop, which I hear is doing well at Nordstrom in Beachwood.

Keep in mind though that with the way the economy is and especially with online shopping now, mid market brick and mortar shops are struggling across the country, especially mall retailers. The only ones really doing well are high end and discount retailers. I think at least in the short and medium term, high end or outlet shops have a much better chance of thriving in TC than your Crocker Park or Southpark mall stores.

 

However, I would like to see them bring in some mid range stores that we currently don't have in the market like Uniqlo, Super Dry, Armani Exchange or Topman/Topshop, which I hear is doing well at Nordstrom in Beachwood.

 

Exactly. High end actually has more of a shot to be successful than mid or low end stores in TC, based on where the retail market is. I think too many of us are just projecting what we want it to be instead of looking at what would or could work. It should definitely have some things for DT residents, sure, but this entire mall should not be filled with Walgreens and CVS's and stuff like that. High end retail has the best shot of working in TC if done correctly

However, I would like to see them bring in some mid range stores that we currently don't have in the market like Uniqlo, Super Dry, Armani Exchange or Topman/Topshop, which I hear is doing well at Nordstrom in Beachwood.

 

Tower City tried that before: it opened with all these new stores that weren't in the suburbs. Then they opened in the suburbs and Tower City collapsed. If Uniqlo is interested in Northeast Ohio, they'll do their market research and probably determine downtown Cleveland isn't the right spot for them.

 

Trying to lure suburbanites to Tower City with "unique" chain stores is not a recipe for long term success, which we've already seen. Create something that can't be duplicated in the suburbs.

Personally, I like the idea of leaving the lower level of the mall for retail, retaining a small, upgraded foodcourt (look up the food court at Santa Monica Place for an example of a well executed, upscale type of food court), and converting the upper floors of the mall into office space.  Give the retailers even more immediate potential customers, and remove some of the glut of retail space, which should create more of a market for street level retail in the rest of downtown, including new developments such as Nucleus.

 

This is a great point!  I hope this is a course of action being considered for this space.

 

If Sherwin Williams stays in its current space in the Landmark Towers and Skylight, these potential new offices could be right in the middle and could be decent spaces for areas of that business that don't have to have continual interaction with the other departments.  Just a thought.

I was in Baltimore last week and the fourth level of their once high-end downtown mall (Harborplace) is being converted to co-working office space. They still have some viable retail potential with the tourism of the Inner Harbor area so the lower floors are remaining retail, but a partial conversion could make since for Tower City.

A commercial building permit issued to Bedrock Real Estate for Tower City Parking Garage with Albert Higley as the general contractor could be the start of something, maybe.  It's probably just something small though. But it has been sooo sloowww with nothing happening I am looking for something, anything, anywhere regarding new developments.

 

https://ca.permitcleveland.org/Public/Cap/CapDetail.aspx?Module=BuildingHousing&TabName=BuildingHousing&capID1=16BHO&capID2=00000&capID3=14458&agencyCode=COC&IsToShowInspection=

Is the commercial building permit for the triangular lot next to the Renaissance?

Is the commercial building permit for the triangular lot next to the Renaissance?

 

Hi AnthonyB, welcome! Googlemaps shows 1527 West 6th as being at the intersection of West 6th and Prospect, just south of the triangular lot next to the Renaissance. However, in googling the address, physical descriptions of the location seem to refer to the entrance from West 6th (below the former Post Office now Quicken Loans offices) to the Tower City parking decks below, that were sandwiched into the 12-track, 6-platform "steam" railroad portion of Cleveland Union Terminal. Here are a few examples....

 

Network Parking 1527 W 6th St Cleveland, OH Parking Garages ...

https://www.mapquest.com/.../ohio/...cleveland/network-parking-limited-2762...MapQuest

Get directions, reviews and information for Network Parking in Cleveland, OH.

 

Tower City Center - Parking in Cleveland | ParkMe

https://www.parkme.com/lot/694/tower-city-center-cleveland-oh

Cleveland Parking; Tower City Center. $14. Use two fingers to move the map ... 1527 W 6th St. Cleveland, OH 44113, US. (216) 736-7668. (216) 566-9070. Tow.

 

Network Parking - Parking - 1527 W 6th St, Tower City, Cleveland, OH ...

www.yelp.com › Automotive › Parking

Yelp

(216) 736-7668 · 1527 W 6th St Cleveland, OH 44102 · Parking ...

 

Tower City Center (1527 W 6th St, Cleveland, OH 44113) - Parking ...

www.parkingpanda.com › Cleveland Parking

Find Parking · Cleveland Parking; 1527 W 6th St. Use two fingers to move the map. Map Data ... Tower City Center. 1527 W 6th St Cleveland, OH 44113.

 

Tower City Center | 1527 W 6th St, Cleveland, OH 44113 - DriversApp

www.driversapp.com/nearby/41.497344,-81.695697

Tower City Center. 1527 W 6th St, Cleveland, OH 44113. 0.08 KM. TCC Valet Ritz. 1500 W 3rd St, Cleveland, OH 44113. 0.09 KM. Marriott - The Ritz. 1515 W ...

 

A commercial building permit issued to Bedrock Real Estate for Tower City Parking Garage with Albert Higley as the general contractor could be the start of something, maybe.  It's probably just something small though. But it has been sooo sloowww with nothing happening I am looking for something, anything, anywhere regarding new developments.

 

https://ca.permitcleveland.org/Public/Cap/CapDetail.aspx?Module=BuildingHousing&TabName=BuildingHousing&capID1=16BHO&capID2=00000&capID3=14458&agencyCode=COC&IsToShowInspection=

 

I'm also getting disappointed with the lack of development activity in recent months. Like the NSA often hears an increase in "chatter" before an attack, I used to be able to find all sorts of hints of information of upcoming projects and groundbreakings. Now there's almost no chatter. Either nothing is happening or a number of projects are in "radio silence" mode as they wrap up financing, contracts, and other details. I hope this is the calm before the storm.

It may be that owners/developers and their would be tenants are waiting on outcome of the presidential election before they decide on big investments.

 

One of my workers mentioned he has in years past seen a slowdown in construction activity right before a Presidential election.

So does this mean investors are more inclined to proceed  with

their projects with Trump  or with Clinton?

 

Or it makes no difference.

Is that because they want to see if they can get certain financial packages from a presidential candidate. Holding out to see if a presidential candidate would give projects like theirs increased funding?

 

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^Any concern would be far more general, about markets reacting to the election news and ripples from that. I doubt it's really much of a factor for any of the local projects. Big projects like this always take forever in our market for a variety of reasons, primarily the low rents and thin track record. Not sure why people are looking for other explanations.

So does this mean investors are more inclined to proceed  with

their projects with Trump  or with Clinton?

 

Or it makes no difference.

 

At today's interest rates, any delay for political reasons is probably a mistake - assuming the project is a sound idea to start with.

Seems as though the renovation of FYE either didn't happen or was delayed as the tarp is gone but the store looks the same. Oh well.

 

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Terminal Tower sold to K&D Group in $38.5 million deal; apartments planned for 12 floors (photos)

 

By Michelle Jarboe, The Plain Dealer

on September 15, 2016 at 1:51 PM, updated September 15, 2016 at 1:55 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Terminal Tower, downtown Cleveland's most iconic skyscraper, changed hands Thursday in a $38.5 million deal that will trigger a mixed-use redevelopment project and a major corporate headquarters move.

 

The K&D Group, Inc., bought the 52-story office building from Forest City Realty Trust, Inc., the publicly traded company that had owned Terminal Tower for 33 years. Now K&D plans to transform 12 lower floors of the tower into 293 apartments, in a project that could kick off in late 2018 and conclude in 2020.

 

The transaction marks a changing of the guard for a Cleveland landmark at a time of heightened interest and sales activity downtown.

 

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2016/09/terminal_tower_sold_to_kd_grou.html#incart_m-rpt-1

On the one hand, cool.

 

On the other hand, Forest City really doesn't seem to give a s-hit about Cleveland

On the one hand, cool.

 

On the other hand, Forest City really doesn't seem to give a s-hit about Cleveland

 

And on the third(?) hand, K&D's track record as a management company isn't glowing...