And how many primary sources are required before posting a rumor? I must have missed that terms and conditions page.

I have only one source, and it's barely a source. The reason is that he works for a large, national GC but is bound by a NDA. All he can say is working on a project at Tower City and it's worth an NDA. So there is **something** going on here.

 

My own contribution to the rumor mill may be a bit dated. A different GC rep told me last fall that she had seen massings of structures cantilevered over the RTA tracks near Ontario and Huron, overlooking the river. But they were just massings showing conceptual options. FWIW.

Edited March 4, 20196 yr by KJP

if there is any truth to this rumor, let's hope it's more than just a low-employment data center. For reference, this is re. a new Google data center in Columbus:

 

Quote

The Google project could cover about 275,000 square feet when it is finished. If it moves forward, it would create 50 jobs by the end of 2023, according to the city.

 

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181211/google-considering-new-albany-for-600-million-data-center-project

Just now, StapHanger said:

if there is any truth to this rumor, let's hope it's more than just a low-employment data center. For reference, this is re. a new Google data center in Columbus:

 

 

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181211/google-considering-new-albany-for-600-million-data-center-project

 

New Albany. Nuff said ?

Taking into account what I've been hearing on my company's end and some other rumblings/"rumors", whatever is about to happen at TC seems much more ambitious & costly than a data/call center imo

I wonder if any of this would potentially affect the Casino?  I thought Gilbert was trying to sell off his Casinos but so far only the Rocksino has been sold.  I also have heard rumors (nothing specific) about what is going on at Tower City- and all I can gather is that it is going to be pretty significant.  Wish I knew more...  I do know that the Residences at Terminal Tower that K&D are adding will soon open the leasing office and have a lot of interest already.

$600 million for a 100%, 15-year tax abatement for only 50 jobs doesn't sound like a particularly great deal to me.

I guess New Albany can brag about landing Google or Facebook hubs, but I'd take a thousand blue collar jobs at an Amazon distribution center any day.

One would think that Bedrock would be close to announcing their plans for TC relatively soon given that physical work there is imminent; would Bedrock need to go before the city to get any designs approved for the space or since its strictly interior work would it just have to jive with whatever its zoned for and pull the necessary building permits?

3 hours ago, CleCaneFan said:

One would think that Bedrock would be close to announcing their plans for TC relatively soon given that physical work there is imminent; would Bedrock need to go before the city to get any designs approved for the space or since its strictly interior work would it just have to jive with whatever its zoned for and pull the necessary building permits?

 

They would need to get building permits for the interior alterations for sure. As long as the usage type is the same and the plans meet other building codes they shouldn't have any issues. If they are altering the exterior they need to go before the city for approval.

I’m sorry, I misunderstood my source. It’s West 2nd that’s slated to go pedestrian only. 

Just now, marty15 said:

I’m sorry, I misunderstood my source. It’s West 2nd that’s slated to go pedestrian only. 

That makes more sense.  So then it's pedestrian only on W 2nd Street between Prospect and Huron...sounds like a great idea.

 

Hopefully, steet signage for CLE's Rapid Transit System will be a part of any redo in this area.  No one visiting downtown, except if they saw the Flats Waterfront Line, would know Cleveland had a rapid transit system.

Edited March 4, 20196 yr by Oxford19

22 minutes ago, Oxford19 said:

That makes more sense.  So then it's pedestrian only on W 2nd Street between Prospect and Huron...sounds like a great idea.

 

At first this seems like a strange street to make "pedestrian only".  But I'd imagine there were similar thoughts when they first suggested converting E.4th to "pedestrian only".

 

Hopefully this would encourage some retail to open up in a few of the spots on the east side of W.2nd in the Midland Building.  Or even another restaurant in the old Hard Rock spot on the corner of W.2nd and Huron.  If a restaurant opens there, and the street is "pedestrian only" they could have a decent outdoor patio along W.2nd

I would think wind would be a big issue for any type of outdoor usage there.  It's not as bad as the lake bluff, but Huron gets buffetted by Southern winds coming up the valley pretty bad on a lot of days.

I'm assuming this comment came from someone on this board but in the article about aer lingus someone (AFT87) posted

 

"Dang, another international flight? you would think a major tech company was about to about to move into tower city.."

 

If it's not someone on this board then there might be some truth to these rumors.

Another commenter, Tim, also mentions Google taking over Tower City. I’d really like to know what’s going on here. 

Edited March 5, 20196 yr by mrclifton88

A Saint Patrick's Day Announcement?  - That's just 12 days away, lassies & laddies.
(Who has one of the biggest St Pat's Parades in the USA?)

34 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

Another commenter, Tim, also mentions Google taking over Tower City. I’d really like to know what’s going on here. 

Hmm, the original "Tech Czar" in CLE is named Tim. Tim Moran.

 

Coincidence? 

 

[edit: yes....it's purely a coincidence. Darn]

Edited March 5, 20196 yr by surfohio

It’s Google. Confirmed. No, I can’t reveal source. That person would be out of a job after all you guys start poking around! 

However, I’m not aware of the scale and scope of their total plans/investment. But it’s gonna be exciting. #cityblock

So if this is for real- any idea on timing of this being public? 

5 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

So if this is for real- any idea on timing of this being public? 

That, I don’t know. Probably shortly after people here start asking questions haha

Is it just a data center or will it have a  large office component?

 

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 2019

Cleveland's Tower City may soon become tech hub

 

Tower City Center, formerly Cleveland's main railroad passenger station, could soon enter its third incarnation -- this time as a $150 million tech hub. Dubbed City Block, the hub would become an incubator for a variety of technology firms, ranging in size from Fortune 100 anchor companies to flash-in-the-pan start-ups.

City Block, although sought by the heavy-hitting, civic-minded BlockLand initiative to give blockchain technology a home base in the USA, will unite all sorts of technology start-ups in a collaborative setting. After investigating a dozen Cleveland sites, BlockLand's Place Committee has zeroed in on The Avenue at Tower City Center, according to several sources who asked not to be identified. The reason is that negotiations haven't yet concluded, so it's not yet a done deal.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/03/clevelands-tower-city-may-soon-become.html

...SCOOP!

This is kind of a bummer. 

 

Edited: “I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and by gum I've put them on the map!”

Edited March 5, 20196 yr by bumsquare

4 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

This is kind of a bummer. 

 

Edited: “I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and by gum I've put them on the map!”

 

My thoughts on it are mixed.  I recall Moreno seeking public funds, and it's not clear right now where this $150 million is coming from.  Could be a repeat of the Medical Mart fiasco if major tenants aren't already lined up.  I'm glad some retail tenants will be staying, since this will still be the city's public transit hub... converted to a thoroughly non-public use.

14 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

This is kind of a bummer. 

Agreed, kind of bittersweet. It's great that there will be a second, THIRD life with potentially NEW workers down there leading to potentially an increase in downtown activity. In a perfect world, I'd hope at least some of the existing national retail that leaves inside the mall will make their way to the vastly underutilized shops on Prospect. In unison with the rumored streetscape that is more pedestrian friendly, I feel that would be a home run. 

Edited March 5, 20196 yr by MyPhoneDead

If some retail remains i'm personally "okay" with the overall idea. If the retail demand increases, there is always the bluff land south of Huron to build on which could have direct access to the rail terminal.  

It just sounds so gimmicky, even more so than the medical mart which, as 327 pointed out, has been at best a wash. And it’s such a great public space. I’m hoping this will mostly entail converting the upper floors If I had to guess, in 10 years The Avenue will be 15 charter schools.

Just now, bumsquare said:

It just sounds so gimmicky, even more so than the medical mart which, as 327 pointed out, has been at best a wash. And it’s such a great public space. I’m hoping this will mostly entail converting the upper floors If I had to guess, in 10 years The Avenue will be 15 charter schools.

 

A key difference between this and medical mart is the candid business ambition of this project, in fairness. Medical Mart was a bit of an aloof concept - this is a little better put together. But I hear you

^There’s no reason to think this is any better conceived than the MM. 

 

@327 zeroed in on the big question: who’s paying for this? 

Interestingly, there is no "Finance Committee" or similar in the BlockLand effort.

31 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

“I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and by gum I've put them on the map!”

 

This definitely comes to mind.  Another silver-bullet approach, instead of doing a better job of all the little things that we still have to do anyway.  Detroit, for example, recently announced a program of similar cost to rehab storefronts along its main streets and support small business tenants.  Personally I would do that three times before going this direction.  For one thing, the profits stay local.  For another, new employment reaches areas that need it.

 

Then again, this plan could work.  Someone upthread suggested Google is part of it.

I'm prepared to be underwhelmed by the employment count, visible activity level, and RTA ridership generation, and to be pretty irate if there's lots of public money in this, but if nothing else, will be excellent seeing the dead mall taint scrubbed away and the dumb "Avenue" name finally replaced. 

10 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

I'm prepared to be underwhelmed by the employment count, visible activity level, and RTA ridership generation, and to be pretty irate if there's lots of public money in this, but if nothing else, will be excellent seeing the dead mall taint scrubbed away and the dumb "Avenue" name finally replaced. 

Color me very optimistic. Closest comparison I can think of is the Merchandise Mart in Chicago which really reinvented/repurposed itself into a tech hub, and is a huge success. Literally reborn from the ashes even with some wholeselling showrooms remaining

Edited March 5, 20196 yr by TBideon

Could be the nail in the coffin for retail. I do not see retail working here along with this concept.

I'm a software developer, so if this comes true this is good news for me. So many opportunities it sounds like.

As the transit hub for a cold-weather city, Tower City really ought to have some retail; aspirationally speaking, if this project can bring in a good number of good paying jobs into the hub, it could drive a reimagining and upgrading of the retail aspect that will raise the level of the entire center to make it a destination again.   Not a regional destination, but the destination for downtown residents and people living along transit.   The retail cold be cut to a third or a quarter of its existing square footage, but if that included a small-format Target, retention of some of the other desirable retailers, etc, you'd have a viable mix that makes Tower City active 7 days  a week.   I want people living in the development at W.25th to take the Red Line downtown to shop, not their cars to Steelyard Commons.  My biggest fear with this is plan is that it eliminates so much retail that the interior becomes totally dead on weekends.  The counterpoint to that is that it already kind of is.

Edited March 5, 20196 yr by PittsburgoDelendaEst

While I'm excited about the prospect of potentially working on this, and the announcement of new investment & construction activity is pretty much always  welcome news around here, I'm not overly excited about the concept being proposed here myself. While the potential "tech/blockchain" jobs sounds terrific, where are they coming from? (Guessing we'll know more as tenants are announced); how much public funding is in this? How much from the private sector? The redo of Prospect Ave & W2 sounds promising, but the potential loss of such a magnificent indoor civic space is reason for pause (I love taking my kids down there for the Winterfest & Toy Soldier show). 

Theres just so much about this we don't know and I'm just hoping that this redo will still allow public access & civic use when it's all said and done.

I agree with the other comments above.  Seeing a tech hub at TC could bring some jobs and perhaps build some new local businesses.  But I am concerned about having this combination of incompatible uses at Tower City (e.g. an urban casino, a Rtiz Carlton, apartments, and now the tech hub).

It reminds me of those dead suburban malls that stick municipal offices and call centers in vacant department stores.  Not exactly a place where I want to spend much time or money.

But who knows how it will turn out.

I guess the other thing to keep in mind is that there's only so much you can do with some of this windowless indoor mall retail space. And in any case, if new retail comes to town I'd rather it locate on street-facing blocks, not in Tower City.  So as long as there's no absurd public subsidy, this seems like a pretty OK way to soak up this space. The public function as a pedestrian concourse will still be intact, presumably, and could still be plenty useful in the future if and when there's new development on the riverfront behind Tower City.

To go along with the sentiment, it's not like we're losing much in way of retail unless you're of the belief that Dollar-A-Rama, Jewls and More, Cricket, and the like are holding down the space (I realize it's a much different mix than the mall of the past), but it's kind of embarrassing as a marquee space at the moment. Of course it'd be nice to get a larger retailer downtown and this limits the possibility of say, Target coming in, but there's still space for something in the downtown area.

 

Sidenote, if this is the 'Blockland' campus this spells well for the waterfront being a public space versus a closed campus as someone was surmising the other day in that thread.

 

PS- how has Brooks Brothers held on this long???

Roughly half of the entire first floor (66,000 sf out of 125,000 sf) of The Avenue could be retained with retail and restaurants. I'm not sure if The Avenue's 366,000 sf total area includes the open floor spaces, fountains, etc. or if 366,000 sf refers to leasable space. This is still going to be an active place, what with the RTA station, the walkway to Gateway, the parking lots under/south of Tower City, the 300 housing units being added, the two hotels, the nearly 2 million square feet of Tower City's existing offices plus another 300,000 sf planned. And who know where a Fortune 100 company or companies would put their people. Would it be in the existing Avenue? Or perhaps in a new building to the south of Huron Road?

 

BTW, right now, there's more retail in The Avenue than offices. If there's a rent-paying retailer and not yet a blockchain startup available to fill X space, Bedrock would be foolish to turn away the real rent payer for the theoretical rent payer. A full transition may take some time.

Edited March 5, 20196 yr by KJP

So @marty15 upthread mentioned Google was signed onto this, @KJP you are talking about a Fortune 100 component as already being a part of this - do you have any sources saying that a Fortune 100 is a component of this already or is that just hopeful speculation?

2 hours ago, 327 said:

 

My thoughts on it are mixed.  I recall Moreno seeking public funds, and it's not clear right now where this $150 million is coming from.  Could be a repeat of the Medical Mart fiasco if major tenants aren't already lined up.  I'm glad some retail tenants will be staying, since this will still be the city's public transit hub... converted to a thoroughly non-public use.

 

Here's 50M

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/columbus-venture-fund-to-open-office-invest-50-million-in-cleveland.html

38 minutes ago, tj111 said:

So @marty15 upthread mentioned Google was signed onto this, @KJP you are talking about a Fortune 100 component as already being a part of this - do you have any sources saying that a Fortune 100 is a component of this already or is that just hopeful speculation?

 

I have no sources saying a Fortune 100 company has signed on. I was referring to recent articles (linked through my article) saying that Moreno et al has been pursuing Fortune 100 tech firms, so I listed them. And this effort isn't just Moreno. Take a look at the committees and who's on them to see that some pretty serious players are involved in this here, nationally and overseas. Will that get it done? I don't know, but I like its chances moreso now in knowing that it's not just Moreno. But he's certainly the prime mover.

 

And yes, I'm very intrigued by the rumors. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next, even if it's nothing.

Edited March 5, 20196 yr by KJP

8 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I have no sources saying a Fortune 100 company has signed on. I was referring to recent articles (linked through my article) saying that Moreno et al has been pursuing Fortune 100 tech firms, so I listed them. And this effort isn't just Moreno. Take a look at the committees and who's on them to see that some pretty serious players are involved in this here, nationally and overseas. Will that get it done? I don't know, but I like its chances moreso now in knowing that it's not just Moreno. But he's certainly the prime mover.

 

^It would be interesting if one of the larger tech companies would agree to become a proprietary sponsor of the incubator. It could function in the same way many hedge funds operate under the umbrella of the bulge bracket banks. 

I have been intrigued by this blockchain idea and if he can pull it off it would be huge for Cleveland, just imagine all the new developments if google and apple are investing downtown..  That would be pretty awesome. 

and just thought of this...  If Sherwin Williams goes forward and builds a Tower, that opens up all that space to redevelop and bring in even more pieces to a tech hub..  Maybe thats the thought process too?

The article doesn't say but I wonder how much of The Avenue space will be used versus all that space in the Post Office Plaza or the adjacent buildings.