July 1, 20195 yr 12 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: That's EXACTLY what I remember ? I think that era of Tower City could do pretty decent in today's downtown climate. Yeah, you missed how extravagant the opening was, lol. Unfortunately, Cleveland's market wasn't conducive to some of the store's that lined it's floors at that time IMO. When you add in cultural changes, closed in malls aren't what most American's focus on today.
July 1, 20195 yr Myphonedead - If I recall correctly, the second picture had two stores. On the left was the street entrance to Joan & David shoes (which was also accessible in the mall). On the right was County Road, which was kind of like a Australian Banana Republic, but was only accessible from the street. Joan & David went into bankruptcy in 2000, and Country Road exited the American market about the same time.
July 1, 20195 yr So...sorry to sound like an armchair developer, but I wonder why this couldn't be done at the Post Office Plaza. That building is about the same size and the Tower City public space doesn't have to be hacked apart for it. Aside from K&D owning it instead of Bedrock--um, I think I answered my own question.
July 1, 20195 yr Author Good question. Post office plaza is 477,000 square feet and half vacant. The Avenue is 366,000 square feet and half vacant. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 1, 20195 yr They want a dynamic, exciting space. And from @KJP‘s scoop, Station F being their inspiration for a unique setting, regular, tucked away office space isn’t in the cards for this venture.
July 1, 20195 yr On 6/28/2019 at 4:51 PM, KJP said: FRIDAY, JUNE 28, 2019 City Block at Tower City, announcement Monday; sneak peak On Monday, July 1, BlockLand Cleveland will announce that The Avenue at Tower City Center is the group's chosen site for its technology hub called City Block. The hub, as proposed, would be the world's largest technology incubator under one roof. Bernie Moreno, founder and leader of BlockLand Cleveland, a volunteer effort, confirmed last week in a personal message via Twitter that the project would be announced at 4 p.m. Monday at the group's next regular meeting. The meeting will be held on the second floor of the former Plain Dealer building, 1801 Superior Ave. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/06/city-block-at-tower-city-announcement.html Anyone know when this announcement will be?
July 1, 20195 yr Author You can lead a horse to water.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 1, 20195 yr https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2019/07/01/city-block-blockland-tech-hub-will-open-in-tower-city-in-agreement-with-bedrock-detroit 'City Block,' Blockland Tech Hub, Will Open in Tower City in Agreement with Bedrock Detroit Posted By Sam Allard on Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 2:22 pm Local car dealer turned tech entrepreneur Bernie Moreno has announced that "City Block," the Blockland tech hub conceived to attract and grow start-up companies in Cleveland, will open at Tower City as early as next year. The development project will be a joint effort between Blockland and Bedrock Detroit, the Dan Gilbert real estate company that owns and operates The Avenue Shops at Tower City. Bedrock Chairman Jim Ketai released a statement saying that his company, which has studied multiple ways to adapt the depleted Tower City mall since it acquired the property in 2016, has "entered into negotiations" with the Blockland community. Edited July 1, 20195 yr by dave2017
July 1, 20195 yr On 3/3/2019 at 10:29 PM, marty15 said: Google is behind the new Tower City makeover. And look for that section of Prospect Ave. to be turned to pedestrian only. Now we wait for the meat ?
July 1, 20195 yr https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/07/whats-next-for-tower-city-mall-city-block-proposed-tech-hub-confirmed.html It’s a $110 million commitment and not all the money is raised yet, so Blockland volunteers will need to secure sponsors, equity partners, tenants and — hopefully — a large tech company to anchor the space, founder Bernie Moreno said in a phone interview.
July 1, 20195 yr 6 minutes ago, marty15 said: Now we wait for the meat ? If Google is really behind it why does Moreno seem to indicate otherwise? It’s a $110 million commitment and not all the money is raised yet, so Blockland volunteers will need to secure sponsors, equity partners, tenants and — hopefully — a large tech company to anchor the space, founder Bernie Moreno said in a phone interview. Though the deal is set, the specifics are not. The renovation will be done in phases, but those are not yet defined. There have been conversations with many potential tenants, Moreno says, but none are locked up yet. His own blockchain company, Ownum, will be one of the first to move in. Edit: RMB beat me too it. Edited July 1, 20195 yr by cle_guy90
July 1, 20195 yr My source has been proven correct on everything else revealed thus far, 4 months ago mind you. Patience.
July 1, 20195 yr 1 minute ago, marty15 said: My source has been proven correct on everything else revealed thus far, 4 months ago mind you. Patience. I believe in Marty's source ?
July 1, 20195 yr Lastly: Entrepreneurship center coming to The Avenue at Tower City https://www.crainscleveland.com/technology/entrepreneurship-center-coming-avenue-tower-city
July 1, 20195 yr So they intend to close off Prospect to vehicles? Do you suspect it would just be between 2nd and 3rd streets or more?
July 1, 20195 yr I know that Prospect has always been Tower City's back alley, but between that and shutting down Superior to E-W traffic, it's gonna be ugly.
July 1, 20195 yr 2 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said: I know that Prospect has always been Tower City's back alley, but between that and shutting down Superior to E-W traffic, it's gonna be ugly. They can always build phase II of the casino and put another road paralleling Huron... after all, Sherwin Williams is moving imminently, right @KJP? ?
July 1, 20195 yr 4 hours ago, marty15 said: My source has been proven correct on everything else revealed thus far, 4 months ago mind you. Patience. Not saying you you aren’t correct, but I’ve been close to this project for 8 months now, and have yet to hear “google” in any capacity.
July 2, 20195 yr 12 hours ago, superior said: Yeah, you missed how extravagant the opening was, lol. Unfortunately, Cleveland's market wasn't conducive to some of the store's that lined it's floors at that time IMO. When you add in cultural changes, closed in malls aren't what most American's focus on today. Actually that is wrong. As discussed earlier in this thread and the retail thread (for newer forumers), Issues were FC's lack of Mall management. Daytime/weekend majority traffic Many stores, had their own financial issues. Barney's, LV, Banana Republic, Liz Claiborne, Gucci, Warner Bros., Structure and the Gap Inc (Brands). Many were closing stores all over like Barney's and Gucci. Today, there are significantly more things to do downtown, more hotels, and more residents that can support upscale retailers.
July 2, 20195 yr 50 minutes ago, Klingaling87 said: Not saying you you aren’t correct, but I’ve been close to this project for 8 months now, and have yet to hear “google” in any capacity. I've heard rumblings of Google "medical". I dropped a bread crumb earlier. However, one of their "X" divisions could be in play here.
July 2, 20195 yr 4 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said: I know that Prospect has always been Tower City's back alley, but between that and shutting down Superior to E-W traffic, it's gonna be ugly. With all the other parallel streets in Cleveland, Closing this stretch of Prospect isn't going to be an issue. Clevelanders have it way to easy as compared to other cities when traveling into/out of downtown. Due to the number of avenues in our city, we don't really have a bad commute and a very short evening "rush" hour compared to other cities. Anyone, who, right of the bat, thinks this is a negative, plays right into the Cleveland self saboteur syndrome I've often spoken of.
July 2, 20195 yr 4 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said: I know that Prospect has always been Tower City's back alley, but between that and shutting down Superior to E-W traffic, it's gonna be ugly. There is no reason Huron, which is being rehabilitated as we speak, wouldn’t be able to handle the additional traffic from Prospect.
July 2, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, Klingaling87 said: Not saying you you aren’t correct, but I’ve been close to this project for 8 months now, and have yet to hear “google” in any capacity. I suppose there’s no absolutes in anything. I just have no reason to believe otherwise, considering my source.
July 2, 20195 yr Author 2 hours ago, Clevecane said: They can always build phase II of the casino and put another road paralleling Huron... after all, Sherwin Williams is moving imminently, right @KJP? ? If you consider 3+ years "imminent," yes. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 2, 20195 yr 6 hours ago, MyTwoSense said: Actually that is wrong. As discussed earlier in this thread and the retail thread (for newer forumers), Issues were FC's lack of Mall management. Daytime/weekend majority traffic Many stores, had their own financial issues. Barney's, LV, Banana Republic, Liz Claiborne, Gucci, Warner Bros., Structure and the Gap Inc (Brands). Many were closing stores all over like Barney's and Gucci. Today, there are significantly more things to do downtown, more hotels, and more residents that can support upscale retailers. Not completely. You've help make some of my points. Yes, todays market is more sustainable for upscale retailers. In 1990, the downtown housing market wasn't strong. Once Tower City opened, you began to see a downturn in storefronts along Euclid Ave. This factor happened in a lot of markets that had a small downtown population. The focus was to bring people within city cores for shopping. The problem came in when people found other options. Small market downtown malls usually suffered because of the lack of a sustained population. It is a KNOWN fact that closed in malls are becoming extinct. Think about it, the Cleveland area alone has lost almost all it's malls (Tower City, Galleria, Euclid Square, Shaker, Randall Park, etc.). Most people either buy online or prefer to go to open air shopping centers today. Banana Republic, Structure and the Gap had sustainability IMO over the years. Gucci, Versace and Fendi was a hard sell for the Cleveland market during that timeframe. Even the Disney store moved out rather quickly. This is one of the main points why the downtown population has to reach 20,000+. Cleveland is a hard sell for most high end retailers. I can only imagine the frustration some of the local developers have during their pitches to some of these businesses. As an example, I currently live about an hour away from Frankfurt Germany. None of these retailers have an issue with traffic flow in and out of their establishments. None have sales issues either. Tesla even has a location in downtown Frankfurt. Gucci isn't leaving the New York, Chicago or LA markets no matter how many stores they close (I know Cleveland doesn't compare to them, but...). When I go to some cities you will see that they will only allow a certain amount of customers into the establishment at a time. People literally stand in line waiting to get in (like it's a club, lol). The one thing they ALL have in common, they are in an open air shopping center or have a storefront. Bottom line, no retailer will leave a market that has proven to be financially beneficial to them. Cleveland's slowly getting there and I can't wait.
July 2, 20195 yr 13 hours ago, Klingaling87 said: Not saying you you aren’t correct, but I’ve been close to this project for 8 months now, and have yet to hear “google” in any capacity. Cmon Klingaling, you know you "googled' blockchain at some point Edited July 2, 20195 yr by Taller_is_better
July 2, 20195 yr 16 hours ago, MyTwoSense said: With all the other parallel streets in Cleveland, Closing this stretch of Prospect isn't going to be an issue. Clevelanders have it way to easy as compared to other cities when traveling into/out of downtown. Due to the number of avenues in our city, we don't really have a bad commute and a very short evening "rush" hour compared to other cities. Anyone, who, right of the bat, thinks this is a negative, plays right into the Cleveland self saboteur syndrome I've often spoken of. To clear the record, this wasn't what I thought "right off the bat." I was chiming in response to another commenter who aptly noticed the potential closure of Prospect, which is used by several RTA routes and a significant feeder to the Veterans Memorial Bridge. Second, if you read my other comments, actually my primary concern was that a popular public/gathering space could in essence be privatized. But to your larger point about sabotaging Cleveland, no one has to jump head first into every single development initiative or be seduced by every Lyle Lanley to have strong civic pride. Edited July 2, 20195 yr by PaxtonMarley
July 2, 20195 yr 7 minutes ago, PaxtonMarley said: To clear the record, this wasn't what I thought "right off the bat." I was chiming in response to another commenter who aptly noticed the potential closure of Prospect, which is used by several RTA routes and a significant feeder to the Veterans Memorial Bridge. Second, if you read my other comments, actually my primary concern was that a popular public/gathering space could in essence be privatized. But to your larger point about saboteur-ing Cleveland, no one has to jump head first into every single development initiative or be seduced by every Lyle Lanley to have strong civic pride. Hahahah could be that closing Prospect for a tech incubator is more of a SHELBYVILLE idea
July 2, 20195 yr Just now, bumsquare said: Hahahah could be that closing Prospect for a tech incubator is more of a SHELBYVILLE idea I'm so glad someone got it!
July 2, 20195 yr I'm a fan of the Blockland concept, but I still don't like the idea of completely closing Prospect. If anything we should be diverting more traffic from Public Square to Prospect, but this will do the opposite and throw it back to Public Square.
July 2, 20195 yr I am intersted to hear how the architects incorporate the historic elements of The Union Terminal while incorporating vibrant updates to the space.
July 3, 20195 yr 17 hours ago, superior said: Not completely. You've help make some of my points. Yes, todays market is more sustainable for upscale retailers. In 1990, the downtown housing market wasn't strong. Once Tower City opened, you began to see a downturn in storefronts along Euclid Ave. This factor happened in a lot of markets that had a small downtown population. The focus was to bring people within city cores for shopping. The problem came in when people found other options. Small market downtown malls usually suffered because of the lack of a sustained population. It is a KNOWN fact that closed in malls are becoming extinct. Think about it, the Cleveland area alone has lost almost all it's malls (Tower City, Galleria, Euclid Square, Shaker, Randall Park, etc.). Most people either buy online or prefer to go to open air shopping centers today. Banana Republic, Structure and the Gap had sustainability IMO over the years. Gucci, Versace and Fendi was a hard sell for the Cleveland market during that timeframe. Even the Disney store moved out rather quickly. This is one of the main points why the downtown population has to reach 20,000+. Cleveland is a hard sell for most high end retailers. I can only imagine the frustration some of the local developers have during their pitches to some of these businesses. As an example, I currently live about an hour away from Frankfurt Germany. None of these retailers have an issue with traffic flow in and out of their establishments. None have sales issues either. Tesla even has a location in downtown Frankfurt. Gucci isn't leaving the New York, Chicago or LA markets no matter how many stores they close (I know Cleveland doesn't compare to them, but...). When I go to some cities you will see that they will only allow a certain amount of customers into the establishment at a time. People literally stand in line waiting to get in (like it's a club, lol). The one thing they ALL have in common, they are in an open air shopping center or have a storefront. Bottom line, no retailer will leave a market that has proven to be financially beneficial to them. Cleveland's slowly getting there and I can't wait. I disagree. It was not about Cleveland or Cleveland not being able to support stores. It was about the stores not being FINANCIAL stable themselves. Most of the stores in TC are no longer in existence. in the 90s there were on 6/7 stand alone Gucci stores and Cleveland had one of the most opulent. The store was STUNNING! Gucci themselves was in a bad financial situation, along with no Creative Director. The store in Columbus was opened in one design and Cleveland's in another. The Cleveland store downsized, Columbus closed. The LV was a franchise, yet would not meet brand standards. The franchisee was the issue, which led to the store closure. Gucci did close stores, same with Barney's. Barney's closed stores at Top Tier, first rate malls like Houston's Galleria. This mall is amazing, in comparison it makes Beachwood look like two bit strip Mall. As a point of reference the Gucci store on Fifth did close. There was a ton of consolidation the affected upscale retailers. Gucci was purchased and rebranded. You're comparing today with outside forces that affected the retain industry and Tower City. Part of the problem is TC sucked the life off of Euclid Ave. Cleveland at on point had the most digital sales for luxury retailers right after TC slumped. As often said. It's a chicken meet egg situation. Comparing a situation, where you live today, has no relevance to what happened in Cleveland. NONE! Also the "line thing" makes no sense at all!
July 3, 20195 yr I don’t remember there being a Louis Vuitton in Tower city???? Fendi and Gucci yes, but LV I don’t, Addendum never mind I forgot even though Fendi is an Italian retailer it is under the LV brand. Edited July 3, 20195 yr by osu87
July 3, 20195 yr 4 hours ago, MyTwoSense said: I disagree. It was not about Cleveland or Cleveland not being able to support stores. It was about the stores not being FINANCIAL stable themselves. Most of the stores in TC are no longer in existence. in the 90s there were on 6/7 stand alone Gucci stores and Cleveland had one of the most opulent. The store was STUNNING! Gucci themselves was in a bad financial situation, along with no Creative Director. The store in Columbus was opened in one design and Cleveland's in another. The Cleveland store downsized, Columbus closed. The LV was a franchise, yet would not meet brand standards. The franchisee was the issue, which led to the store closure. Gucci did close stores, same with Barney's. Barney's closed stores at Top Tier, first rate malls like Houston's Galleria. This mall is amazing, in comparison it makes Beachwood look like two bit strip Mall. As a point of reference the Gucci store on Fifth did close. There was a ton of consolidation the affected upscale retailers. Gucci was purchased and rebranded. You're comparing today with outside forces that affected the retain industry and Tower City. Part of the problem is TC sucked the life off of Euclid Ave. Cleveland at on point had the most digital sales for luxury retailers right after TC slumped. As often said. It's a chicken meet egg situation. Comparing a situation, where you live today, has no relevance to what happened in Cleveland. NONE! Also the "line thing" makes no sense at all! A Gucci store closing on Fifth Ave doesn't prove nor should it suggest that they left said market. Again, Gucci or any other high end retailer isn't going to leave a market that has proven profitable. The city of Cleveland itself is the only justification a retailer needs to determine if it can support stores. Cleveland has continued this downward trend in population going on 70 years. This isn't rocket science. The only population that really seems to have increased is in downtown. Cleveland should have a large digital sales point margin in comparison to some other markets who actually have luxury retail store fronts within driving distance. That isn't unreasonable to comprehend why the numbers would be reflective (to your point, it wasn't consistent). I actually can't think of one luxury store front in Cleveland (hopefully I'm incorrect). The only locations I can think of is in Beachwood (which by your comparison to Houston's Galleria is closer to a flee market LOL) which have counter space in Nordstrom or Saks. I've already mentioned that Tower City helped the demise of store fronts on Euclid. Tower City decreased downtown's walkability to some degree. The difference between a Cleveland storefront and other viable locations is that once a store closes, that property can remain vacant for years. Retailers pay attention to these trends. My comparison wasn't just for my locale (that was used as a point of reference). The comparison to Cleveland is that retailers no longer are willing to jump into a market where they can't guarantee success. When I mentioned people standing in lines outside of these luxury retailers, it was to prove a point (I've seen it at several locales). People are willing to go to these retailers and do more than window shop. The last thing a retailer would want to see is sales dropping consistently after opening into a new market. I view my perspective from a global standpoint. Luxury retailers certainly do the same. So know that they could care less the justification as to why it didn't work in Cleveland. Please understand, it's a lot deeper than rebranding and consolidations. If the market proves to be viable, they will force themselves onto that market. All it takes is for ONE luxury retailer to open and be extremely successful in Cleveland (others will follow). You seem to be fully invested into this conversation. I prefer to not continue because we are completely off topic. If it's that big of an issue for you, you can send me a private message.
July 3, 20195 yr https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/City Block FAQ.docx?token=AWxnAJqo1xKinXKHCWTlhEoKKaKEp_Ax_CCzgv3VtAn5rtRMKBVcj2aQIXWtQk_qw9BcPOyMKZE46EZmnEzGA4lVa_2aNA8QAKnSJM2DnReNGDfSeKWdaS5nQoxP1TThhEC9-n0bfvaEEPAJEL1kVILidErsOYYQ7_Y0Q_S9aEwNtg City Block FAQ posred by Bernie Moreno on Blockland’s Facebook page.
July 11, 20195 yr "Ohio real-estate developers ditch ‘blockchain hub’ plans over lack of interest" Odd article https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/07/02/cleveland-ohio-designers-blockchain-not-public-want/
July 11, 20195 yr 3 minutes ago, Eastside said: "Ohio real-estate developers ditch ‘blockchain hub’ plans over lack of interest" Odd article https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/07/02/cleveland-ohio-designers-blockchain-not-public-want/ The writing makes it clear the author is not fluent in written English. Maybe he misread the news releases?
July 11, 20195 yr 13 minutes ago, Eastside said: "Ohio real-estate developers ditch ‘blockchain hub’ plans over lack of interest" Odd article https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/07/02/cleveland-ohio-designers-blockchain-not-public-want/ Reads more like a fluff piece from a writer with a quota to fill and an utter lack of ideas. All he did was reinterpret a Cleveland.com article... Edited July 11, 20195 yr by ASP1984
July 11, 20195 yr 52 minutes ago, Terdolph said: Why does a "technology center" need to be in a shopping mall on top of a transit center? Where is the synergy. Wouldn't this be better in Mid-Town next to Terdolph Park? Exactly!. This makes no sense to me. They want to put a "technology center" in a perfect retail site, and build a suburban outlet mall in the parking lot of a GA airport. Sometimes Cleveland planning makes me scratch my head.
July 11, 20195 yr 4 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Exactly!. This makes no sense to me. They want to put a "technology center" in a perfect retail site, and build a suburban outlet mall in the parking lot of a GA airport. Sometimes Cleveland planning makes me scratch my head. If it's a perfect retail site then why is there no retail? There certainly wasn't any retail left even before they purposely stopped renewing leases. I have no doubt that this tech center will include some retail. Just not to the extent it used to.
July 11, 20195 yr 1 minute ago, KFM44107 said: If it's a perfect retail site then why is there no retail? There certainly wasn't any retail left even before they purposely stopped renewing leases. I have no doubt that this tech center will include some retail. Just not to the extent it used to. There are volumes in these forums on the subject but in TC it boiled down to the overall national retail climate combined with perceived security issues for patrons dealing with RTA riders (mostly schoolchildren). One area were retain continues to hang on is outlet malls as destinations. One area they tend to thrive is near casinos. There happens to be one next door, with a planned Phase 2 out back.....
July 11, 20195 yr 10 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Exactly!. This makes no sense to me. They want to put a "technology center" in a perfect retail site, and build a suburban outlet mall in the parking lot of a GA airport. Sometimes Cleveland planning makes me scratch my head. This isn't really "Cleveland planning". These are the actions of private developers pursuing their own interests as they see them.
July 11, 20195 yr 3 minutes ago, KFM44107 said: If it's a perfect retail site then why is there no retail? There certainly wasn't any retail left even before they purposely stopped renewing leases. I have no doubt that this tech center will include some retail. Just not to the extent it used to. The mall certainly had a functioning food court and convenience retail before the present owners seemed to stop renewing leases years ago. Until proven otherwise, a high priced tech hub in the very heart of the city deserves all the skepticism it can handle.
July 11, 20195 yr 2 minutes ago, X said: This isn't really "Cleveland planning". These are the actions of private developers pursuing their own interests as they see them. Understood-- I didn't mean this as "official City of Cleveland planning." I meant it as a general blanket statement.
July 12, 20195 yr Right, but my point is that if there isn't the official "City of Cleveland Planning" doing the planning, there is no "Cleveland" planning going on. Just actors in a market.
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