Not to go off-topic but with the sale of Tower City what properties does Forest City still own in the Cleveland area?

"The Avenue shops provide us with a unique opportunity to build upon the connectivity to our other downtown investments and create a one-of-a-kind urban shopping, dining and entertainment destination that will make all Clevelanders proud."

 

I have waited a long time for Forest City to finally be out of the picture.  I hope that DG and company really come up with something special.  A large mixed use residential/retail overhaul could be a game-changer.

I hope it includes some physical changes that blast away the failed mall taint.

 

Taint blasting aside, I think there is a lot of possibility in Tower City, but it just depends what Gilbert plans to do with what is now being called the mixed use site. If he builds something big, will it re-invigorate the mall. Or is he planning something else. I don't know, I just wanted to make a joke about taints.

Crains' take on the press release...

 

Rock Gaming and Dan Gilbert-linked firm lands Cleveland's Avenue shopping center for $56.5 million

March 23, 2016 UPDATED 37 MINUTES AGO

By STAN BULLARD

 

A Dan Gilbert and Rock Gaming-related company has purchased a centerpiece of Tower City, the Avenue, from Forest City Realty Trust Inc. (NYSE: FCEA, FCEB) for $56.5 million, the companies announced separately on Wednesday morning, March 23.

 

Gilbert said in a news release from Bedrock Real Estate Services that the shops are strategically connected to the company’s other assets — the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, JACK Cleveland Casino and Quicken Loans Arena.

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160323/AGGREGATED/160329924/rock-gaming-and-dan-gilbert-linked-firm-lands-clevelands-avenue

Does Sherwin Williams own their HQ building (Landmark Office Towers?) ?  With rumors of their search for a new HQ, that would be #1 on my shopping list if I'm Gilbert.

 

*edited - previously had called sherwin HQ MK Ferguson by mistake

Does Sherwin Williams own the MK Ferguson building?  With rumors of their search for a new HQ, that would be #1 on my shopping list if I'm Gilbert.

 

From Michelle's article:

 

"Now Forest City...owns just two pieces of the sprawling Tower City Center complex.

 

One is Terminal Tower, the iconic office building where Forest City has its headquarters. The other is Post Office Plaza, where recent and possible departures of office tenants have complicated Forest City's sale efforts."

Does Sherwin Williams own their HQ building?  With rumors of their search for a new HQ, that would be #1 on my shopping list if I'm Gilbert.

 

 

Yes, as well as the unbuilt space where the LeBron banner is.

I hope it includes some physical changes that blast away the failed mall taint.

 

Taint blasting aside, I think there is a lot of possibility in Tower City, but it just depends what Gilbert plans to do with what is now being called the mixed use site. If he builds something big, will it re-invigorate the mall. Or is he planning something else. I don't know, I just wanted to make a joke about taints.

 

Oh man, you beat me to the taint blasting joke!

I wish they had figured this all out before the "Classic Auto Group Welcome Center" was built

Tower City sale creates uncertainty for Cleveland International Film Festival

 

By Joanna Connors, The Plain Dealer

Email the author

on March 23, 2016 at 8:45 AM, updated March 23, 2016 at 11:07 AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The sale of the Avenue at Tower City to companies associated with Dan Gilbert, announced Wednesday, brings with it the question of what happens to Tower City Cinemas and, more crucially, to the Cleveland International Film Festival.

 

The CIFF, celebrating its 40th anniversary this year, has made Tower City Cinemas its home every spring since 1991. The central location has been a boon for both the city of Cleveland and the CIFF, which has grown more than 600 percent since it moved to Tower City.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/moviebuff/index.ssf/2016/03/tower_city_sale_brings_uncerta.html#incart_article_small

Gilbert said in a news release from Bedrock Real Estate Services that the shops are strategically connected to the company’s other assets — the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, JACK Cleveland Casino and Quicken Loans Arena.

 

Slate Rock and Gravel Company?

^To me, it behooves Gilbert to come out and state his intention to keep the TC Cinemas.  I love CIFF and am a regular, but even beyond CIFF, I'm still of the old-fashioned belief that a movie theater in a shopping malls, especially a downtown mall, is a huge positive. 

 

In it's current iteration, CIFF is as close to perfect as you can get for a film festival, in terms of its setup and, particularly, it's location at Cleveland's center for commerce, retail and (especially) public transportation.  It's a win-win for everybody... The beauty of its indoor connected-ness allows CIFF to thrive in both bad weather and good, and its patronage in recent years have been off the charts.  CIFF has been a huge asset for Cleveland but would likely falter considerably if it's moved; particularly if it's scattered among multiple non-theater locations, which could happen if the new TC gives them the boot.  Therefore given CIFF's importance to the City, Gilbert should voice his position asap in protecting this 40-year-old Cleveland institution. 

Oh dear, "Gilbert should voice his position asap in protecting this 40-year-old Cleveland institution?"

I can't say I'm hopeful about that. Just look what he tore down for "Dice Park." 

 

I don't sense much altruism with this guy, only dollars & cents, so the thing that might save the theaters and C.I.F.F. are that J*A*C*K must now compete with the entertainment offerings out at the Rocksino.  Allowing even a reconfiguration of the theaters and entertainment in the mall could mean more fresh meat for the Gilbert & Co. casino operation.  - They do have that upside going for them.

 

I just hope they keep the Dollar store. Love that place

 

(Not being sarcastic)

I just hope they keep the Dollar store. Love that place

 

(Not being sarcastic)

 

Me too. It's the first place I go to downtown when I need something for the office. If they don't have it, then I probably have to go to an office supply store in the suburbs.

Yeah, I don't love that it was the only place besides CVS to get small household goods when I lived Downtown, but sometimes something from there would do in a pinch.

Oh dear, "Gilbert should voice his position asap in protecting this 40-year-old Cleveland institution?"

I can't say I'm hopeful about that. Just look what he tore down for "Dice Park." 

 

I don't sense much altruism with this guy, only dollars and sense, so the thing that might save the theaters and C.I.F.F. are that J*A*C*K must now compete with the entertainment offerings out at the Rocksino.  Allowing even a reconfiguration of the theaters and entertainment in the mall could mean more fresh meat for the Gilbert & Co. casino operation.  - They do have that upside going for them.

 

You're right; and that's what scares me about Gilbert.

Oh dear, "Gilbert should voice his position asap in protecting this 40-year-old Cleveland institution?"

I can't say I'm hopeful about that. Just look what he tore down for "Dice Park." 

 

I don't sense much altruism with this guy, only dollars and sense, so the thing that might save the theaters and C.I.F.F. are that J*A*C*K must now compete with the entertainment offerings out at the Rocksino.  Allowing even a reconfiguration of the theaters and entertainment in the mall could mean more fresh meat for the Gilbert & Co. casino operation.  - They do have that upside going for them.

 

You're right; and that's what scares me about Gilbert.

 

I don't know that I agree with this. Yes, every businessman is out to make money...that's the point. But it doesn't mean there aren't other forces behind that as well. Dan Gilbert can be pointed to for a LOT of the good happening in Detriot. He's responsible for revitalizing large chunks of thier downtown.

 

Recently he lobbied congress to pass a bill fighting urban blight. A lot of what he's done is self serving I'm sure, but he has done a lot of good also.

Oh dear, "Gilbert should voice his position asap in protecting this 40-year-old Cleveland institution?"

I can't say I'm hopeful about that. Just look what he tore down for "Dice Park." 

 

I don't sense much altruism with this guy, only dollars and sense, so the thing that might save the theaters and C.I.F.F. are that J*A*C*K must now compete with the entertainment offerings out at the Rocksino.  Allowing even a reconfiguration of the theaters and entertainment in the mall could mean more fresh meat for the Gilbert & Co. casino operation.  - They do have that upside going for them.

 

You're right; and that's what scares me about Gilbert.

 

I don't know that I agree with this. Yes, every businessman is out to make money...that's the point. But it doesn't mean there aren't other forces behind that as well. Dan Gilbert can be pointed to for a LOT of the good happening in Detriot. He's responsible for revitalizing large chunks of thier downtown.

 

Recently he lobbied congress to pass a bill fighting urban blight. A lot of what he's done is self serving I'm sure, but he has done a lot of good also.

 

Actually, I'm a Gilbert fan.  He's done tons in Detroit, and Cleveland is better off with his investments here.  He's just a bit mercurial at times.

I would love to see Gilbert have the impact that he has had on Detroit in Cleveland. Thankfully, Cleveland isn't as far down as Detroit was.

I would love to see Gilbert have the impact that he has had on Detroit in Cleveland. Thankfully, Cleveland isn't as far down as Detroit was.

 

I wouldn't be opposed if he wants to help fund a streetcar line here too ;)

I would love to see Gilbert have the impact that he has had on Detroit in Cleveland. Thankfully, Cleveland isn't as far down as Detroit was.

 

I wouldn't be opposed if he wants to help fund a streetcar line here too ;)

 

... or even help fund the final leg of the CVSR so it could extend into Tower City/downtown instead of having that rail line terminate in Valley View, 8 miles south of downtown in no-man's land.

^ Yes. This.

 

It would be great for him. Connect his casino, shopping mall, and hotel with a rail line to a natural park. How many other casinos could offer those kind of amenities?

It's Gilbert, he will probably put in something Klassy like..well...wild eagle saloon.

It's Gilbert, he will probably put in something Klassy like..well...wild eagle saloon.

Don't forget the dice by his parking garage.

I would love to see Gilbert have the impact that he has had on Detroit in Cleveland. Thankfully, Cleveland isn't as far down as Detroit was.

 

I wouldn't be opposed if he wants to help fund a streetcar line here too ;)

 

... or even help fund the final leg of the CVSR so it could extend into Tower City/downtown instead of having that rail line terminate in Valley View, 8 miles south of downtown in no-man's land.

That's hardly no mans land though.  A shuttle from there up Rockside and another down Canal would hit one of greater Clevelands high employment centers.  It's actually very central to employment nodes.  I do agree, going downtown from there would be nice too.

According to a source, the Tower City mall management transition is happening tomorrow, yes March 17, St Patricks Day, the day the mall is overrun with drunk high school kids, and it closes at 2pm.  There will be a 30 day transition where Forest City will be involved in training the new ownership, and there will be no little fanfare or announcements.

 

Props to this poster for their source as far as the timetable/takeover is concerned.

 

Also, this is a great opportunity for Tower City and it comes at the right time when other things are happening. 

Below is an image from the mjarboe[/member] article.  I wonder when Cleveland Thermal is demolished next year that space will also be in play for Gilbert or someone. Exciting times.

I hope he keeps it as is, maybe add some type of residential on the upper floors where the skylight tower offices are. Tower city has so much potential to be great the way it is. Hearing that one of his partners runs high end malls is encouraging though. The main things imo that need renovation and are eye sores per say are the bathroom in the back corridor by the convenience store, the food court, and the movie theater. The mall also has a major roach and rat problem as well, so bad to where rats are seen in the food court during the day and roaches were found in food. *cough shanghai Joe's cough*. Those things need to immediately be addressed. 

OK, I do know that Tower City has a pest control problem as a relative of mine was dating someone in the past 1-2 years who worked in the local offices of a well-know pest control company. Tower City was a client of theirs and he said the place has recurring pest problems. But I also have to say that in the 16 months I've worked at Tower City and visited the food court or used the service corridors behind the stores I have NEVER seen any rodents around. In fact I've never seen any roaches either. I've seen birds inside the skylight concourses, but that's all.

OK, I do know that Tower City has a pest control problem as a relative of mine was dating someone in the past 1-2 years who worked in the local offices of a well-know pest control company. Tower City was a client of theirs and he said the place has recurring pest problems. But I also have to say that in the 16 months I've worked at Tower City and visited the food court or used the service corridors behind the stores I have NEVER seen any rodents around. In fact I've never seen any roaches either. I've seen birds inside the skylight concourses, but that's all.

I worked in the Avenue for 5 years and have seen multiple rats around Cajun Grill (The exact name slips my mind for some reason, that may be it.) The Shanghai Joe's incident is well known with employees of the avenue. The old Nathan's had a reoccurring roach problem as well. When i think abou it I've never heard or seen a rodent or roach problem on the food court side closest to the movie theater. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just struck me as odd.

 

 

I hope he keeps it as is, maybe add some type of residential on the upper floors where the skylight tower offices are. Tower city has so much potential to be great the way it is. Hearing that one of his partners runs high end malls is encouraging though.

 

Agree. I don't think the mall necessarily needs to be remade into something else.  I'm hoping that now that he owns the place he'll have more reason to pursue mixed use across from Huron.

Is there room for any traditional anchor stores in the Tower City complex? I ask because often those big department stores lend legitimacy to a mall in the eyes of other, smaller chain retailers. If TC could even just cover the basics, it would be great for Cleveland. When I was in Cle this summer, my mom forgot some cosmetic items and needed to purchase some. Nothing fancy required- any cosmetics store would have what she needed, so I said we should just go to TC to get it.  Unfortunately, there was no cosmetics store in the mall, and when we asked where we should go downtown to find these items, several people said to just go to Beachwood, which is what we ended up doing (also ended up shopping a bit :-/ ). I don't think Tower City needs to be luxurious or extravagant, just good enough to meet the basic needs of visitors and downtown residents. A Macy's or something would be excellent.

1,000+ people have weighed in re: what they want to see @ShopTowerCity after sale to @BedrockDetroit. Take our poll: https://t.co/cOGLQiOc2A

Is there room for any traditional anchor stores in the Tower City complex? I ask because often those big department stores lend legitimacy to a mall in the eyes of other, smaller chain retailers. If TC could even just cover the basics, it would be great for Cleveland. When I was in Cle this summer, my mom forgot some cosmetic items and needed to purchase some. Nothing fancy required- any cosmetics store would have what she needed, so I said we should just go to TC to get it.  Unfortunately, there was no cosmetics store in the mall, and when we asked where we should go downtown to find these items, several people said to just go to Beachwood, which is what we ended up doing (also ended up shopping a bit :-/ ). I don't think Tower City needs to be luxurious or extravagant, just good enough to meet the basic needs of visitors and downtown residents. A Macy's or something would be excellent.

 

When the mall was originally planned Neiman-Marcus had signed on as an anchor and I think they were going after Bloomingdale's as well. The area those stores would have been built on was until recently earmarked for the second phase of the Cleveland casino. The casino of course took the space of the original anchor department store Higbees. So yes to answer your question.

Neiman-Marcus was planned on being across Huron rd from Ritz Carlton. (I opened the J. Crew store and I remember management hoping for the annoucement of construction starting soon..)

Is it possible that they can revisit the original plan of residential towers behind tower city with retail at the bottom? The towers can be of a smaller scale though instead of a large tower.

 

This...

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/03/dan_gilbert_buys_the_avenue_sh.html

According to a source, the Tower City mall management transition is happening tomorrow, yes March 17, St Patricks Day, the day the mall is overrun with drunk high school kids, and it closes at 2pm.  There will be a 30 day transition where Forest City will be involved in training the new ownership, and there will be no little fanfare or announcements.

 

Props to this poster for their source as far as the timetable/takeover is concerned.

 

Also, this is a great opportunity for Tower City and it comes at the right time when other things are happening. 

Below is an image from the mjarboe[/member] article.  I wonder when Cleveland Thermal is demolished next year that space will also be in play for Gilbert or someone. Exciting times.

 

Ugh....parking assets. RIP Tower City Ampitheatre

 

According to a source, the Tower City mall management transition is happening tomorrow, yes March 17, St Patricks Day, the day the mall is overrun with drunk high school kids, and it closes at 2pm.  There will be a 30 day transition where Forest City will be involved in training the new ownership, and there will be no little fanfare or announcements.

 

Props to this poster for their source as far as the timetable/takeover is concerned.

 

Also, this is a great opportunity for Tower City and it comes at the right time when other things are happening. 

Below is an image from the mjarboe[/member] article.  I wonder when Cleveland Thermal is demolished next year that space will also be in play for Gilbert or someone. Exciting times.

 

Ugh....parking assets. RIP Tower City Ampitheatre

 

 

Tower City Amphitheater? That's been gone for 5 years

Is it possible that they can revisit the original plan of residential towers behind tower city with retail at the bottom? The towers can be of a smaller scale though instead of a large tower.

 

 

I'm sure Rock Ventures and the city would love to revisit this, but like everywhere else, it comes down to development costs and rents. New construction is expensive. Rents are still relatively low in Cleveland. It's why we've seen so little new construction, aside from heavily subsidized conversions and some low/mid-rise stuff.

Current trends for a successful mall in this area are for them to resemble an urban environment with narrow landscaped streets and storefronts facing those streets like Crocker Park or Legacy. The Arcade and the Galleria are other similar downtown examples of what we are dealing with with the Avenue and they haven't been able to pull off the whole mall thing. Plus the whole mall crowd in this area doesn't seem to me to want to deal with downtown shopping. Recent successes downtown have shown that mixed use is the way to go and the big thing missing from the Avenue and Tower City is a built in residential population. This could be an already built TOD with the potential to have stores come in to support residents such as a pharmacy, small grocer, home furnishings, etc... Existing stores could stay as well on a floor or in an area to continue the shopping experience for visitors. Restaurants are already there. The ground floor could be a great place for a monthly farmers or flea market. I'm sure that I'm missing something as far as putting apartments here but what an address to have!

Is it possible that they can revisit the original plan of residential towers behind tower city with retail at the bottom? The towers can be of a smaller scale though instead of a large tower.

 

 

I'm sure Rock Ventures and the city would love to revisit this, but like everywhere else, it comes down to development costs and rents. New construction is expensive. Rents are still relatively low in Cleveland. It's why we've seen so little new construction, aside from heavily subsidized conversions and some low/mid-rise stuff.

Yeah I'm aware of this. I'm hoping though that with the superblock looming in the warehouse district, and the potential of nucleus that it won't be as difficult to obtain the necessary things to get it done. If the can do this anchor stores may be placed there. Money aside, it would be cool to see an connection to that other side of the street. Similar to what we see when you take the escalator on the second floor to the third and it drops you off across the street to Lincoln taphouse. That way both residents and shoppers could easily traverse the mall and the stores across the street.

I think the mall has all the tools to succeed, add residential and it will boom again. It has a train station at the bottom, the main bus line outside its doors, a hotel and offices connected to it, as well as two arenas, you cant ask for more besides housing. With the population booming downtown it simply is a if you build ot they will come scenario. I worked at the mall for 5 years and visitors for both sporting events and just tourists CONSTANTLY asked if this mall had this or that and I constantly had to tell them no. If a better selection was there it could be sustainable add residential close by and it will boom. With the train station below i feel the only thing the mall needs to do is give people a reason to hop on those trains to go to the mall. I would not try to make the mall a completely high end mall, a mix of stores would do better. I feel as if the    mall originally shot to high when it opened back. You have to slowly draw the people back.

 

Also where the mall suffered is in its marketing. The "you can find it on the avenue" ads were perfect and it let people know what the mall had to offer. Those stopped and that had a negative impact imo. The ads are crucial because I've always said, as a tourist when you are walking downtown and you see the tower city exterior you don't picture a mall being inside so you won't visit, which means money lost for the mall. This is even easier with the popularity of social media. Dan Gilbert needs to beef up advertising and signage downtown to let people know "hey this isn't just a big hulking office tower, come inside to spend money." They also need the city to advertise downtown shopping as well. Maybe they can change the front door signage for the public square side to read, "The Avenue Mall at Tower City Center or something." They can also have a directory when you first walk in as well. They really need the avenue to be the main name associated with it. When i talk to people they never even knew that was the malls name and they thought tower city was the office towers name and the mall just was inside. Im sort of ranting but long story short is the mall has the tools to boom, way more than almost any mall in America, they just need to work on branding itself as a mall to people more to let people know what it has to offer. Once that is done the numbers will improve.

 

I think the mall has all the tools to succeed, add residential and it will boom again. It has a train station at the bottom, the main bus line outside its doors, a hotel and offices connected to it, as well as two arenas, you cant ask for more besides housing. With the population booming downtown it simply is a if you build ot they will come scenario. I worked at the mall for 5 years and visitors for both sporting events and just tourists CONSTANTLY asked if this mall had this or that and I constantly had to tell them no. If a better selection was there it could be sustainable add residential close by and it will boom. With the train station below i feel the only thing the mall needs to do is give people a reason to hop on those trains to go to the mall. I would not try to make the mall a completely high end mall, a mix of stores would do better. I feel as if the    mall originally shot to high when it opened back. You have to slowly draw the people back.

 

Also where the mall suffered is in its marketing. The "you can find it on the avenue" ads were perfect and it let people know what the mall had to offer. Those stopped and that had a negative impact imo. The ads are crucial because I've always said, as a tourist when you are walking downtown and you see the tower city exterior you don't picture a mall being inside so you won't visit, which means money lost for the mall. This is even easier with the popularity of social media. Dan Gilbert needs to beef up advertising and signage downtown to let people know "hey this isn't just a big hulking office tower, come inside to spend money." They also need the city to advertise downtown shopping as well. Maybe they can change the front door signage for the public square side to read, "The Avenue Mall at Tower City Center or something." They can also have a directory when you first walk in as well. They really need the avenue to be the main name associated with it. When i talk to people they never even knew that was the malls name and they thought tower city was the office towers name and the mall just was inside. Im sort of ranting but long story short is the mall has the tools to boom, way more than almost any mall in America, they just need to work on branding itself as a mall to people more to let people know what it has to offer. Once that is done the numbers will improve.

 

Once Cleveland, Cuyahoga County and NEO start creating jobs and attracting new residents with paychecks, not only The Avenue but the whole region will draw people back.

Dan is crowdsourcing development plans apparently.

 

Is it possible that they can revisit the original plan of residential towers behind tower city with retail at the bottom? The towers can be of a smaller scale though instead of a large tower.

 

This...

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/03/dan_gilbert_buys_the_avenue_sh.html

 

Holy wow, this is awesome. I've never seen these plans before.

Is it possible that they can revisit the original plan of residential towers behind tower city with retail at the bottom? The towers can be of a smaller scale though instead of a large tower.

 

This...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/03/dan_gilbert_buys_the_avenue_sh.html

 

Holy wow, this is awesome. I've never seen these plans before.

 

Notice the model of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame directly across Huron from the TC Skylight Concourse...

I really can't get past how ugly the proposed Ameritrust Tower is.

According to a source, the Tower City mall management transition is happening tomorrow, yes March 17, St Patricks Day, the day the mall is overrun with drunk high school kids, and it closes at 2pm.  There will be a 30 day transition where Forest City will be involved in training the new ownership, and there will be no little fanfare or announcements.

 

Props to this poster for their source as far as the timetable/takeover is concerned.

 

Also, this is a great opportunity for Tower City and it comes at the right time when other things are happening. 

Below is an image from the mjarboe[/member] article.  I wonder when Cleveland Thermal is demolished next year that space will also be in play for Gilbert or someone. Exciting times.

 

Ugh....parking assets. RIP Tower City Ampitheatre

 

 

Tower City Amphitheater? That's been gone for 5 years

 

I know that, I didn't mean to insinuate it was still there. I miss it. It helped create a lively atmosphere along with the festivals they had down there. Anyhow I believe Gilbert's vision for the Riverfront is simply parking and more parking.

^ Gotcha, I realized I misread what you meant. I'm more optimistic about the riverfront. Hopefully his experience in Detroit gives him a sense of what a riverfront should look like and he will work to make it more accessible.

I've never really understood "The Avenue" branding.  I was like 10 when the mall opened...  to me "Tower City" is the mall, Terminal Tower is the office building. Is that wrong?  I've never called it "The Avenue"...it doesn't make sense as a name for what it is, does it?