8 hours ago, BuckeyeNative said:

I’m not sure whether its fate has been determined yet, but I’m interested to see if the old railroad depot will remain intact. If it does, I wonder if it would influence the architects to style other buildings along the riverfront in a similar industrial style? Almost reminds of that picture above from their Liverpool project. Fun times!

The old B&O would make a perfect tourist/visitor info center

7 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

The old B&O would make a perfect tourist/visitor info center

 

I envisioned it being some sort of multi-modal hub, which offers bike, scooter, segway, paddleboard, kayak, etc. rentals. 

51 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

The old B&O would make a perfect tourist/visitor info center

Agreed. When you consider that many visitors first arrive in Tower City from Hopkins via the RTA, it’d be an ideal spot for such a visitor center. I think it would make for a great first impression of our city.
 

For everyone who believes that the B&O would be an added addition as a museum or some form of tourist destination, realistically speaking, how much foot traction do you think tourist would give it annually?  

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

I envisioned it being some sort of multi-modal hub, which offers bike, scooter, segway, paddleboard, kayak, etc. rentals. 

Love this idea. Throw in a coffee shop/juice bar and a deck overlooking the river where the passenger deck used to be. 

Throw in paddleboard storage for those of us who own paddleboards Downtown and dont want to have to strap them on our cars and drive a mile to the river!

^Realistically, I think the B&O station only makes sense as a Northern terminus of an extended CVSR. Other than that, it is quite isolated from visitors coming into the city. The visitor center is already in about as prime of a location as you can get right now

 

54 minutes ago, superior said:

For everyone who believes that the B&O would be an added addition as a museum or some form of tourist destination, realistically speaking, how much foot traction do you think tourist would give it annually?  

That’s fair. I was thinking it could be seen less as a money-making project and more as a marketing expense/investment. Who knows, maybe they could rent out event space throughout the year to cover the costs?

Edited April 14, 20223 yr by BuckeyeNative

1 hour ago, superior said:

For everyone who believes that the B&O would be an added addition as a museum or some form of tourist destination, realistically speaking, how much foot traction do you think tourist would give it annually?  

 

Potentially a lot actually. Depending how the pedestrian and bike traffic patterns turn out. 

3 hours ago, BuckeyeNative said:

Agreed. When you consider that many visitors first arrive in Tower City from Hopkins via the RTA, it’d be an ideal spot for such a visitor center. I think it would make for a great first impression of our city.
 

 

3 hours ago, superior said:

For everyone who believes that the B&O would be an added addition as a museum or some form of tourist destination, realistically speaking, how much foot traction do you think tourist would give it annually?  

Let’s dust off @KJP’s concept for a Red Line infill station on the viaduct to service Columbus peninsula, the new park, both banks of the Flats, the trail, and whatever the B&O building gets renovated into. 

-

 

Edited April 14, 20223 yr by ExPatClevGuy

22 hours ago, surfohio said:

 

Potentially a lot actually. Depending how the pedestrian and bike traffic patterns turn out. 

 

For clarification, you're saying that the B&O space as a museum would generate a lot of traction but it's totally dependent upon how the surrounding land is designed as far as intentions?  I ask the question because as a frequent traveler, I've never considered going to any niche museums unless I had a genuine interest in it (especially one that would be this size).  I don't know what the selling point would be to entice visitors.  But... to be fair, I don't know what you may consider to be "a lot" of traffic.  My concern would be that if it is made into a museum, I'd hate to see it repurposed five years in.

24 minutes ago, superior said:

 

For clarification, you're saying that the B&O space as a museum would generate a lot of traction but it's totally dependent upon how the surrounding land is designed as far as intentions?  I ask the question because as a frequent traveler, I've never considered going to any niche museums unless I had a genuine interest in it (especially one that would be this size).  I don't know what the selling point would be to entice visitors.  But... to be fair, I don't know what you may consider to be "a lot" of traffic.  My concern would be that if it is made into a museum, I'd hate to see it repurposed five years in.

 

To be clear I didn't say "generate." But if you look at other facilities along or nearby the Towpath that support visitors (I'm hesitant to call them "museums") they all appear to be quite popular. A place that size of B&O could or offer bicycle service, a hostel, cafes, etc. 

 

I totally get what you're saying about museum concerns, but with multiple current uses you still have some flexibility to see what's working best. To me, I think a place with amenities that offers up historical knowledge is a winner. 

6 minutes ago, surfohio said:

A place that size of B&O could or offer bicycle service, a hostel, cafes, etc. 

I really like the hostel idea! It would be on the small end for a hostel, but it has great potential for supporting people biking into Cleveland for a night out, as well as just generally looking for a cheap place to stay downtown. 

It's a shame they couldn't find a home somewhere in that area for the trolleys that were at Trolleyville USA in Olsmted Township.  They were sitting in a warehouse downtown for several years waiting to be relocated. Unfortunately, all or most of them ended up elsewhere, I think around Chippewa Lake.   Not sure if there is a possibility of getting any of them back now.

Just now, LibertyBlvd said:

It's a shame they couldn't find a home somewhere in that area for the trolleys that were at Trolleyville USA in Olsmted Township.  They were sitting in a warehouse downtown for several years waiting to be relocated. Unfortunately, all or most of them ended up elsewhere, I think around Chippewa Lake.   Not sure if there is a possibility of getting any of them back now.

 

They found a good home and an exciting project for it but couldn't find the money for it.

Potential. The Flats have been hot and cold for awhile decades. The present iteration seems to be percolating at a decent pace. Many of us still remember the several years in the 1990's when it was one of the hottest places in the Midwest. It is a very different place now, more diverse and one with a much larger footprint. It's also quieter with less boats, less traffic and less people in general. For now. Thinking back, I still remain in awe of those nights when Old River Road was as alive as any party place anywhere. 

 

But this version has the potential for a greater impact. People live there now and many more will come as new housing is built. I think the single biggest contribution to life in the Flats will be the completion of the Towpath Trail. If the CVSR could stop there what a great asset that would be. When Bedrock is finished with the riverfront beneath Tower City imagine that section being a magnet for people as more of the river is opened up. When the peninsula's are built out that just adds to the equation. As much as I loved the old party Flats this new version will be a much more exciting one drawing in a more sustainable, more diverse user. It will take time but it is happening. We are actually turning Flats potential into Flats reality.

1 hour ago, surfohio said:

 

To be clear I didn't say "generate." But if you look at other facilities along or nearby the Towpath that support visitors (I'm hesitant to call them "museums") they all appear to be quite popular. A place that size of B&O could or offer bicycle service, a hostel, cafes, etc. 

 

I totally get what you're saying about museum concerns, but with multiple current uses you still have some flexibility to see what's working best. To me, I think a place with amenities that offers up historical knowledge is a winner. 

 

Understood.  My question was mainly about museums.  If the location is repurposed as a more serviceable option is completely understandable and outside of my question.  To that point we are in agreeance.  Thanks

Looks like at least someone at Bedrock sees this as a benefit:

 

Starts off unnecessarily pessimistic, in my opinion, but has some interesting history about the riverfront site and the past plans and proposals. 

 

Will highly-regarded architect David Adjaye do his best work along the Cuyahoga River at Tower City for Dan Gilbert’s Bedrock? - Commentary 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/04/will-highly-regarded-architect-david-adjaye-do-his-best-work-along-the-cuyahoga-river-at-tower-city-for-dan-gilberts-bedrock-commentary.html

Don’t always agree with Litt but this is a good piece - and as someone who has lived through the projects he lists, I believe his pessimism is well-founded. 

Not sure it was necessary to include a social lecture, but that seems to be common in a lot of Litt's articles.

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Not sure it was necessary to include a social lecture, but that seems to be common in a lot of Litt's articles.

Many will read that as an interesting and important part of the story.  Why U so mad?

Edited April 16, 20223 yr by ExPatClevGuy

2 hours ago, Luke_S said:

Starts off unnecessarily pessimistic, in my opinion, but has some interesting history about the riverfront site and the past plans and proposals. 

 

Will highly-regarded architect David Adjaye do his best work along the Cuyahoga River at Tower City for Dan Gilbert’s Bedrock? - Commentary 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/04/will-highly-regarded-architect-david-adjaye-do-his-best-work-along-the-cuyahoga-river-at-tower-city-for-dan-gilberts-bedrock-commentary.html

Not sure I understood this quote in the text:

 

“It’s also tantalizing that Bonner said Adjaye could design a “building or buildings” along the riverfront, in addition to the master plan.”

 

Does anyone have a better idea on what Bonner means by this, or perhaps where the building(s) would go that would be in addition to the master plan? I just assumed that everything along the riverfront *was* the master plan?

Edited April 16, 20223 yr by BuckeyeNative

2 hours ago, BuckeyeNative said:

Not sure I understood this quote in the text:

 

“It’s also tantalizing that Bonner said Adjaye could design a “building or buildings” along the riverfront, in addition to the master plan.”

 

Does anyone have a better idea on what Bonner means by this, or perhaps where the building(s) would go that would be in addition to the master plan? I just assumed that everything along the riverfront *was* the master plan?

Did not read the article and don't know the context of the above quote or what was additionally reported but....I am assuming a master plan has more to do with siting of buildings and parks as well as building size, other amenities, connection to the existing landscape and perhaps general style but not the actual design of the building (exterior and interior).   That quote does peek my interest.  Building on what @KJP  has reported to date it may be further evidence that Bedrock is going to construct a Phase 1 building sooner rather than later, given Rocket's lapsing Higbee lease, and that Adjaye will be the architect of that building.  Again, just more speculation.  Always looking for clues when somebody in the know says something which they might think is a throw away line, but taken in context with everything else could be very illuminating and truth telling.

Edited April 16, 20223 yr by Htsguy

Quick @Geowizical, we need a massing of the Adjaye designed Rocket (Mortgage) launchpad 🚀 secured to the Bedrock below Tower City.  Dan Gilbert soon to announce he will be going mano a mano with Elon.

Edited April 16, 20223 yr by DO_Summers
grammar

This was the most exciting part of the article to me:

 

”Bonner said the company would also look at the long-discussed possibility of bringing the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad north from the Cuyahoga Valley National Park into Tower City Center.”

 

this would be a game changer. 

18 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

This was the most exciting part of the article to me:

 

”Bonner said the company would also look at the long-discussed possibility of bringing the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad north from the Cuyahoga Valley National Park into Tower City Center.”

 

this would be a game changer. 

I wonder could that potential track link ever double in use as an inter urban transportation link between here and Akron, and not just for recreation? 

36 minutes ago, marty15 said:

I wonder could that potential track link ever double in use as an inter urban transportation link between here and Akron, and not just for recreation? 

 

@marty15 It was discussed below (and elsewhere) over the years. The gist is that commuter rail is probably not a use that meshes well with a national park.

 

 

1 hour ago, marty15 said:

I wonder could that potential track link ever double in use as an inter urban transportation link between here and Akron, and not just for recreation? 

That's basically how it would function for those among us who'd be fine commuting to work at 30-40 mph through a national park (lol). Would be interesting to see though how much increased rider demand influenced the addition of more trips.

Edited April 17, 20223 yr by ASP1984

I posted the link to the CVSR thread so we can discuss CVSR there and ensure this thread stays unlocked.

On 4/15/2022 at 12:08 PM, cadmen said:

Potential. The Flats have been hot and cold for awhile decades. The present iteration seems to be percolating at a decent pace. Many of us still remember the several years in the 1990's when it was one of the hottest places in the Midwest. It is a very different place now, more diverse and one with a much larger footprint. It's also quieter with less boats, less traffic and less people in general. For now. Thinking back, I still remain in awe of those nights when Old River Road was as alive as any party place anywhere. 

 

But this version has the potential for a greater impact. People live there now and many more will come as new housing is built. I think the single biggest contribution to life in the Flats will be the completion of the Towpath Trail. If the CVSR could stop there what a great asset that would be. When Bedrock is finished with the riverfront beneath Tower City imagine that section being a magnet for people as more of the river is opened up. When the peninsula's are built out that just adds to the equation. As much as I loved the old party Flats this new version will be a much more exciting one drawing in a more sustainable, more diverse user. It will take time but it is happening. We are actually turning Flats potential into Flats reality.

 

Agreed.  The Flats have as much potential as just about any other natural area in the midwestern United States due simply to the unique winding nature of the Cuyahoga.  Back in the 80's, the "Flats" were the east and west banks, period, and barely extended south of the Detroit-Superior Bridge.  Now, with the (hopefully) coming trifecta of Bedrock, the Irishtown Bend park, and Scranton Peninsula, the geography is about to boom.  I think the key will be connectivity between old and new.  Still plenty of room to grow with trails, the Waterfront line, kayaking, and Terminal Tower.  Exciting times.

5 hours ago, Down_with_Ctown said:

 

Agreed.  The Flats have as much potential as just about any other natural area in the midwestern United States due simply to the unique winding nature of the Cuyahoga.  Back in the 80's, the "Flats" were the east and west banks, period, and barely extended south of the Detroit-Superior Bridge.  Now, with the (hopefully) coming trifecta of Bedrock, the Irishtown Bend park, and Scranton Peninsula, the geography is about to boom.  I think the key will be connectivity between old and new.  Still plenty of room to grow with trails, the Waterfront line, kayaking, and Terminal Tower.  Exciting times.

 

I sound like a broken record with this, but there should be easements for public access/boardwalk type setup from the FEB through this project and beyond. Bake it in before development happens and if you need a carrot/stick approach, offer to reinforce the bulkheads (expensive, but it'd be a lot more expensive to lose public access to the river IMO). 

 

To bring it back to this project in particular, I'm happy to see that in most renderings public access to the site/water is front and center.

15 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

I sound like a broken record with this, but there should be easements for public access/boardwalk type setup from the FEB through this project and beyond. Bake it in before development happens and if you need a carrot/stick approach, offer to reinforce the bulkheads (expensive, but it'd be a lot more expensive to lose public access to the river IMO). 

 

A functional boardwalk would be the engine that 1. truly helps foster development and 2. helps people to continue to patronize the businesses along the water. Not to mention it's just a great amenity for residents living there. 

 

It's just frustrating that such a simple concept isn't so simple (see the Towpath) but it would be great to have someone, some entity take ownership of this idea to make sure that all stakeholders can see the benefits. 

Might need one of those bomb graphics soon

49 minutes ago, KJP said:

Might need one of those bomb graphics soon

 

It actually seems like it’s been a spell since the last @KJPbomb. We’re due! 

meh. this sounds like some twenty year plan. or worse, a casino phase two plan.

 

if bedrock would do something here or in the gateway ballpark village area, like build one structure right away, to kickstart their grand plans and prove they are serious, it would warrant more enthusiasm. right now they are just flipping property. is there any other pressure on them at all? they could just as well sit on these land aquisitions for eternity a la ratner or averill, as tax writeoffs for detroit developments.

17 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

meh. this sounds like some twenty year plan. or worse, a casino phase two plan.

 

if bedrock would do something here or in the gateway ballpark village area, like build one structure right away, to kickstart their grand plans and prove they are serious, it would warrant more enthusiasm. right now they are just flipping property. is there any other pressure on them at all? they could just as well sit on these land aquisitions for eternity a la ratner or averill, as tax writeoffs for detroit developments.

You think?  I’m expecting a TMUD application.

17 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

You think?  I’m expecting a TMUD application.

Probably.

 

Also, David Adjaye talked about how he wants his project to reflect the unique architecture of the city. That seems to echo the COO's statement. Fingers crossed we get some cool renderings soon.

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

meh. this sounds like some twenty year plan. or worse, a casino phase two plan.

 

if bedrock would do something here or in the gateway ballpark village area, like build one structure right away, to kickstart their grand plans and prove they are serious, it would warrant more enthusiasm. right now they are just flipping property. is there any other pressure on them at all? they could just as well sit on these land aquisitions for eternity a la ratner or averill, as tax writeoffs for detroit developments.

 

On May 11th, Rocket Mortgage stock was down about 50% since January and RKT (stock symbol) was shrinking their headcount through buyouts.  (The stock has since bounced back some.) Mr. Gilbert isn't as rich as he was a few months ago. This has to have some cautionary effect on Bedrock's spending plans.

That's right. My stocks are way down too. Me and Dan...sharing the pain. 

 

Bedrock to make Tower City renovations

By Ken Prendergast / May 20, 2022

 

Bedrock Real Estate is making small improvements to Tower City Center in effort to attract more retail and other commercial tenants, but a much larger, promised makeover to the downtown Cleveland railroad station-turned-shopping mall has yet to be announced.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/05/20/bedrock-to-make-tower-city-renovations/

 

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

That's right. My stocks are way down too. Me and Dan...sharing the pain. 

I don't think we will be seeing Dan in a soup line anytime soon.

 

Edited May 20, 20223 yr by LibertyBlvd

well hopefully something happens before the guardians win the world series — all we can do in the peanut gallery is wait and see.

 

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Awesome… LOVE that they are going with the local and small business route.
 

Tower City is one of Cleveland’s most important assets in that, when people arrive into the city on the Rapid from Hopkins, Tower City is one of the first impressions they get of the city. I’d much rather they see restaurants and businesses that are uniquely Cleveland instead of chain stores that can be found anywhere else in America.

^ I also have an additional thought/question to expand on my post above. I remember the blockchain hub concept had plans for some sort of food hall inside Tower City. Ideally, could they revamp the food court as a rotating food hall from local restaurants and food trucks? Are there plans for one? I think that’d go a long way towards giving it that local flair!

If they can get a few more tenets, it may actually work.  

Man that whole Blockchain idea sure petered out fast. Kinda odd. A whole lot of smoke but no fire. I guess it joins other seemingly good ideas like the Medical Mart. Both appeared to have merit, but no, nothing there. 

 

I guess that's why I've always worked for someone else and not myself. Apparently I have no business sense lol.