"Skylight Park will offer guests an opportunity to connect with nature at Tower City.''

 

That's nice, I suppose.  But aren't there opportunities to connect with nature outside?

 

 

 

Kinda cool, I guess. But fountains are cool too. 
 

My question is when are they going to get some signage outside of Tower City? Because I'm not sure how much all these changes and additional vendors will help crowds since there is literally no way to know what's inside that building. If I didn't check this site every day I'd have no idea anything new is in Tower City. 

 

I think they would draw more people in if there was a sign of all the shops inside. I'm sure a lot of people who haven't been in there in years will just walk right by assuming it's the same. I'd really love to see Tower City succeed.

This looks pretty half assed. I don’t like it. 

So can we assume the idea of using the area as a concert/performance venue has been scrapped?

Looking through those articles that @MuRrAy HiLL posted, I really enjoyed this Mike Polk Jr segment on the lighting of the Terminal Tower

 

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

"Skylight Park will offer guests an opportunity to connect with nature at Tower City.''

 

That's nice, I suppose.  But aren't there opportunities to connect with nature outside?

 

 

Tower City: Come inside to experience nature! And fake grass glued to the floor! 

 

So excited 🤮

This idea as well as the conceptual presentation is just one big miss. 

It does look somewhat cheesy. It's a big space. If you're going to fill it appropriately it needs to be to scale. This (improvement?) is not. If you're going to install nature in that cavernous space then do it right. Fill it with real trees, landscaping, a waterfall and some nice walking paths. Turn it into a little rain forest. With a little study I think it could be pulled off. 

Yes, it is cheesy.  Let's hope it is just temporary.  A Ferris wheel would have been nice.  Or a carousel.  Or both.

I saw the tweet, and I just thought "I hope the reality is better than the illustration."

 

I guess it will break up the sight lines in the concourse so it won't seem so big and empty.  

I don't think there is enough space in the fountain for an impressive garden and that big boardwalk. and is that astroturf on the floor? why didn't they turn the fountain into one big planter and have a really cool plant arrangement that people could sit at the edge of.

 

also - mantras and inspirational quotes? jeez

Edited July 6, 20222 yr by Whipjacka

There is literally an urban park 10 steps outside of tower city that is 50x the size of this thing

Is this a permanent installation?  

19 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

Is this a permanent installation?  

Everyone hopes it’s not. 

18 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

Is this a permanent installation?  

 

Nothing is permanent.  Someday everything we know will be dust, blown and gone.

I, for one. will be stopping by this new indoor park on my way to visit the paint museum on Public Square. Wait, what's that?  No paint museum? OK, more time to spend enjoying the park.

Too bad this Skylight Park wasn't installed when it was raining inside Tower City months ago!  Truly bringing the full effect of outside in.  I think the timing is odd for this renovation due to the time to be actually outside to enjoy. It would make more sense  if this was a seasonal install during the winter months. Public Square provides a perfect garden setting to enjoy nature. The original indoor gardens inside The BP Building, while beautiful" never drew crowds in as was envisioned. I'm not sure if this will either.  

 

the fountain isn't big enough to accomplish what they're trying to do. 

What a horrible concept.  Can we just gut the whole Tower City Center and start from scratch? The place needs a complete remodel from the studs. 

I am starting to get a little disappointed with Bedrock.  I was hoping for some big, bold, exciting things to happen at Tower City when they took over.  Now, six years later,they still seem to have no idea.

1 minute ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I am starting to get a little disappointed with Bedrock.  I was hoping for some big, bold, exciting things to happen at Tower City when they took over.  Now, six years later,they still seem to have no idea.

 

I'll say that this year they've really seemed to begin to embrace TC - from the concerts, additional storefronts, popup food (as of last week), and renovations of stores, they're doing something. I can't help but think that the water gush event set their plans back by at least a year. It seems like TC is a bit of an incubator for Bedrock's ideas - see what they can do and decide on more permanent things later. 

The reality is that we do not have the downtown population or transit ridership to make many sustainable improvements to Tower City.  Hopefully we can continue to build downtown population, and maybe RTA can reverse its trajectory eventually.  

12 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

the fountain isn't big enough to accomplish what they're trying to do. 

EXACTLY!

I find the whole concept a little head scratching, but that's how I've felt about most of what Bedrock is doing with Tower City. I'll withhold judgment until we see what sticks.

 

I've said it again, and I'll say it before. The only way Tower City can be truly successful is if it has a good mix of attractions that you can't find at Beachwood Mall or Legacy or Crocker Park or Eton Collection. Because you're never gonna get enough people to go to Tower City for something they could just go to a suburban mall for. So hopefully this is just one part of making Tower City into a fundamentally different kind of mall from the others I referenced.

13 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

the fountain isn't big enough to accomplish what they're trying to do. 

And I would’ve preferred a tropical rainforest theme. We’re all aware of the native plants around our city and state.  A lot of people don’t have the means to travel to experience tropical foilage. That would be an attraction. Plants I see walking my dog are not.

 

It’s a grand space. It needs grand ideas. 

Edited July 7, 20222 yr by marty15

^ Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! Come on Bedrock. If you're going to do it, do it right. Otherwise don't bother. 

It's not downtown, but Cleveland already has the Rockefeller Park Greenhouse.  

1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said:

I find the whole concept a little head scratching, but that's how I've felt about most of what Bedrock is doing with Tower City. I'll withhold judgment until we see what sticks.

 

I've said it again, and I'll say it before. The only way Tower City can be truly successful is if it has a good mix of attractions that you can't find at Beachwood Mall or Legacy or Crocker Park or Eton Collection. Because you're never gonna get enough people to go to Tower City for something they could just go to a suburban mall for. So hopefully this is just one part of making Tower City into a fundamentally different kind of mall from the others I referenced.

Like an outlet mall?  The kind which like to locate near casinos?   With high end stores not available at Beachwood?   

2 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

I find the whole concept a little head scratching, but that's how I've felt about most of what Bedrock is doing with Tower City. I'll withhold judgment until we see what sticks.

 

I've said it again, and I'll say it before. The only way Tower City can be truly successful is if it has a good mix of attractions that you can't find at Beachwood Mall or Legacy or Crocker Park or Eton Collection. Because you're never gonna get enough people to go to Tower City for something they could just go to a suburban mall for. So hopefully this is just one part of making Tower City into a fundamentally different kind of mall from the others I referenced.

 

They need a whale...like the most epic Bass Pro or Cabelas right on the river. That's something that would be a great fit for both the downtown crowds and the Towpath/riverwalk crowds. 

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

Like an outlet mall?  The kind which like to locate near casinos?   With high end stores not available at Beachwood?   

Woah woah woah. Slow down here, that would make TOO much sense. Why go for the common sense low hanging fruit solution when you can try the complicated, innovative, and risky solution?

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

Like an outlet mall?  The kind which like to locate near casinos?   With high end stores not available at Beachwood?   

I may be uninformed, but I can’t think of a single example of an “outlet mall” in the middle of a city’s CBD.   Those projects are typically situated way out in the boonies where the land is cheaper, and right off the interstate.   Every one I’ve been to is very formulaic in terms of layout and the types of stores they have.   As for “high end”, the stores in these outlet malls have pricing positioned well below what you’re going to find at a Beachwood or Pinecrest.  Not sure I’d call them high end.

2 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

It's not downtown, but Cleveland already has the Rockefeller Park Greenhouse.  

Not enough zig-zagging boardwalks at the greenhouse !!!!

Don't forget this existing downtown outlet mall proposal for Muni Lot... (likely dormant, last discussed in 2020.... but... the concept as a draw in a downtown works...)

 

The Outlet Shoppes at Cleveland:

 

https://images1.loopnet.com/d2/7ue1H19-R-t6t4gqzTh4vaaugMbwzB8wK7Aw43miMM8/document.pdf

 

 

29 minutes ago, JohnSummit said:

I may be uninformed, but I can’t think of a single example of an “outlet mall” in the middle of a city’s CBD.   Those projects are typically situated way out in the boonies where the land is cheaper, and right off the interstate.   

There is one in downtown New Orleans.

1 hour ago, surfohio said:

 

They need a whale...like the most epic Bass Pro or Cabelas right on the river. That's something that would be a great fit for both the downtown crowds and the Towpath/riverwalk crowds. 

 

Having lived through the Bass Pro saga with Buffalo and their now torn down Memorial Auditorium, I think we're like 10000% better than a BP or Cabela's, the amount of parking required, vehicular traffic created (trucks, rv's, trailers, etc.), and tax breaks that they'd ask for don't fit where the city is going. When I think of those being in a downtown area, I think it speaks desperation, but that's me/my experience with Buffalo trying for YEARS to attract them. 

Are there any examples of a urban or city REI?

The original one in Seattle - not quite downtown but pretty close. 

 

1 minute ago, OldEnough said:

The original one in Seattle - not quite downtown but pretty close. 

 

Also Denver 

Also Denver 

Found one in nyc, now this could work

2 hours ago, GISguy said:

 

Having lived through the Bass Pro saga with Buffalo and their now torn down Memorial Auditorium, I think we're like 10000% better than a BP or Cabela's, the amount of parking required, vehicular traffic created (trucks, rv's, trailers, etc.), and tax breaks that they'd ask for don't fit where the city is going. When I think of those being in a downtown area, I think it speaks desperation, but that's me/my experience with Buffalo trying for YEARS to attract them. 

 

Okay not for siting inside of Tower City mind you, but FWIW just look at the Riverside Plan: there's "historically" been tons of indoor parking for Tower City Mall aka "The Avenue" and this plan is going to need that and a lot more, which I'm sure will all be well structured and not surface lots. 

 

I'm not aware of the Buffalo situation, but to me an outdoorsy-oriented retailer that rents or sell kayaks, sells fishing equipment, etc. is a nice amenity for a city and desperate to energetically re-embrace it's waterfronts. 

Edited July 7, 20222 yr by surfohio
can't spell good

2 hours ago, GISguy said:

When I think of those being in a downtown area, I think it speaks desperation, but that's me/my experience with Buffalo trying for YEARS to attract them. 

 

Now this is actually a point well-taken. I think it is kind of ridiculous that Cleveland is really desperate for places like an IKEA, Target, etc. and I really wished the region had its own homegrown version of such stores.

 

Anyhow I honestly hope in that regard that Tower City can somehow end up being that perfect mix of local color and the familiar old reliable national retailers. 

"Skylight Park will offer guests an opportunity to connect with nature at Tower City.''
 
That's nice, I suppose.  But aren't there opportunities to connect with nature outside?
 
 

Why do we act as though there’s somehow a limit on how much nature should be in the city? More is more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it's under a roof with ramps, metal guardrails, and petrolium-distilled simulated grass, (in the area specified for fast food carryout) I'm pretty confident it isn't nature.

Edited July 8, 20222 yr by ExPatClevGuy

11 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

If it's under a roof with ramps, metal guardrails, and petrolium-distilled simulated grass, (in the area specified for fast food carryout) I'm pretty confident it isn't nature.

"BUt ThEY hAve LivE FiSH TURtlEs anD DuCks SwimMinG IN The STOrE!"

Edited July 8, 20222 yr by tastybunns

Definitely moving fast

 

 

 

^ Nice pic of Randall Park mall mid 90's

Nailed it.

 

Unfortunately. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when something like this comes up. Not just this but a lot of the other mediocre at best designs. What is driving crap like this? It can't just be the money because I've seen ideas that weren't all that expensive that looked pretty attractive. Must be a lack of talent or vision. 

 

I've said this before but it remains true. If you can't come up with something yourself just pick a great idea out of a architectural design manual then modify it enough so you don't get sued. At least you'll have something that's better than a lot of the garbage out there.

I want to be optimistic about their grand riverfront plans, but seeing this abortion makes it hard to understand we’re getting anything other than an iteration of The Shoppes of Parmatown behind TC.