Don't I know it Cleburger. I mean, there still are areas in some American cities where retail's thriving and not just trinket retail for tourists but actual stores patronized by actual locals. But I think the advent of on-line shopping has only increased the pressure to compete for local retail and, sadly their numbers continue to decrease. 

 

But Europe and Asia in my experience continue to have huge numbers of local retail that seems to be doing well. I was in Thailand last year and not only is Bangkok booming with retail and street life but even the shops on the islands are doing well. Our retail issues really are an American thing that, thankfully most of the rest of the world seems immune too. For now at least. 

I think it looks kind of nice in person. Stopped at lunch today and ppl were sitting in the fake grass area, people were in more spaces than they ever were when there were fountains. Also they rebranded the food court as the eatery. They're also advertising music on Thursdays at lunch. 

 

Idk what lit the fire under Bedrock but they sure have done a lot since around the asg. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A closer look from PT

 

 

Maybe a nice bar with couches there and above would have made more sense.  

^ I hear ya, I know alcohol has got us a long way in development, but it can’t be the answer to everything. 

11 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ I hear ya, I know alcohol has got us a long way in development, but it can’t be the answer to everything. 

 

 

13 hours ago, TBideon said:

Maybe a nice bar with couches there and above would have made more sense.  

 

They've already converted the auntie annes (or whatever) to a bar during events, also there's couches and everything (that came in for the ASG) in the food court/riverview area.

This looks like another swing and a miss by Bedrock.  Maybe they can do something like this next.

 

https://www.utahsadventurefamily.com/scheels/

15 hours ago, freethink said:

A closer look from PT

 

 

 

Even though I'm not a fan of this project, it would've looked better if the steps and walkway was brown and the benches, tables and chairs were brown as well.  I don't know if they were going for a patio vibe or a natural view.

Anything that brings families and people, in general, to Tower City = good. Is this “park” (much too complimentary a word for these decorations) going to move the needle? 
What do you think? 

 

Very doubtful. Look at all the work and expense that was done in Public Square, and it's clearly not any more an attraction than it was prior to the renovation. Not really.

 

Of course that all depends if Bedrock remembers this area exists and puts on quality shows and programming consistently.

 

 

Edited July 20, 20222 yr by TBideon

What has happened to the space formerly occupied by Hard Rock Cafe?

^ nothing. As far as I know it is just vacant. 

What a waste.  I remember Hard Rock stating they wanted to focus their efforts in this market at Northfield when the rocksino opened.  See how long that lasted.  Now we have the unimaginative MGM instead.

I'd like to see JACK rebranded as a Hard Rock casino. Then maybe Hard Rock Cafe can return to its former space.

I believe Gilbert wanted that closed once the Rocksino became a reality. Sadly.

Edited July 20, 20222 yr by marty15

the hard rock brand struggles these days -- so probably don't look for a return:

 

https://www.mashed.com/244933/the-untold-truth-of-hard-rock-cafe/

19 hours ago, marty15 said:

I believe Gilbert wanted that closed once the Rocksino became a reality. Sadly.

 

That's exactly what happened, because he considered them a competitor.

 

Grow up, kids.  You know who you are.

Cross-posted in the streetscape/atmospheric improvements thread....

 

 

I am neither a botanist nor architect, but as a lay person I am having problems with a couple elements of these plans.  First, I think planting trees directly in front of the grand entrance to the Terminal Tower, not to mention any ancillary plantings which may be in included in the plans, could- in fact I think will- take away from the buildings architectural details and the overall original vision for the building.  I wonder if some architects on the board could weigh in with opinions regarding this and perhaps share some example where this has worked with a similarly situated older building.  Also, all that proposed  fussiness in front of the building might just get in the way of people, especially if the sidewalks in front of the building ever see the kind of traffic that was normal years ago.  I also question whether that area gets enough sunlight, although again this is hardly something I know much about.

 

Also concerned about going the "planter" route in other areas  Historically we see they just don't work downtown, whether as a result of poor implementation  or just poor maintenance.  Trees in planters downtown seem to always look insipid, or they just plain die after a few years.  I don't know if it is a root issue or what.  Plus they seem to get in the way and people just use them as trash containers.  I much rather like the look you see all over downtown Chicago as well as in the neighborhoods with trees in planting beds surrounded by ground vegetation.  Of course that look requires pretty wide sidewalks but the trees simply see to do better when in the ground rather than in planters.

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

I am neither a botanist nor architect, but as a lay person I am having problems with a couple elements of these plans. 

 

Think of the ambience though. You clearly aren't thinking about how perfectly spooky those dead trees will look around Halloween time! 

2 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I am neither a botanist nor architect, but as a lay person I am having problems with a couple elements of these plans.  First, I think planting trees directly in front of the grand entrance to the Terminal Tower, not to mention any ancillary plantings which may be in included in the plans, could- in fact I think will- take away from the buildings architectural details and the overall original vision for the building.  I wonder if some architects on the board could weigh in with opinions regarding this and perhaps share some example where this has worked with a similarly situated older building.  Also, all that proposed  fussiness in front of the building might just get in the way of people, especially if the sidewalks in front of the building ever see the kind of traffic that was normal years ago.  I also question whether that area gets enough sunlight, although again this is hardly something I know much about.

 

Also concerned about going the "planter" route in other areas  Historically we see they just don't work downtown, whether as a result of poor implementation  or just poor maintenance.  Trees in planters downtown seem to always look insipid, or they just plain die after a few years.  I don't know if it is a root issue or what.  Plus they seem to get in the way and people just use them as trash containers.  I much rather like the look you see all over downtown Chicago as well as in the neighborhoods with trees in planting beds surrounded by ground vegetation.  Of course that look requires pretty wide sidewalks but the trees simply see to do better when in the ground rather than in planters.

I fear most building owners downtown share your opinion. “I don’t want trees to obstruct my building”. Hence no trees.
 

The trees are an asset to the building, the aesthetic, and are a welcoming presence and respite from the sun and heat.

Edited July 29, 20222 yr by marty15

Don't worry guys this foliage is gonna match the ones inside too so no worry about anything dying 😉

6 minutes ago, marty15 said:

I fear most building owners downtown share your opinion. “I don’t want trees to obstruct my building”. Hence no trees.
 

The trees are an asset to the building, the aesthetic, and are a welcoming presence and respite from the sun and heat.

My problem is the location of these few trees, not trees in front of buildings in general.  I think they will distract from the grand entrance to the terminal and would not be an aesthetic that most architects would believe appropriate at that spot.

I tend to agree with @Htsguy. Some greenery would be nice - plants and flowers, but I'm not sure about the trees, unless they are dwarf trees that won't get very big.

Cough cough.. Did someone mention trees? 

 

Bosco Verticale , Milan

 

PS: the Chief arborist is likely a very lucrative assignment... maybe generational in scope 

Edited July 30, 20222 yr by DO_Summers

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I tend to agree with @Htsguy. Some greenery would be nice - plants and flowers, but I'm not sure about the trees, unless they are dwarf trees that won't get very big.

 

also agree.  if they are going to put trees here they should be a columnar variety.  They should really be making an effort to not obscure the arches.

I thought at one point previously they had some nice sized columnar variety of ginko here. 

Edited July 30, 20222 yr by willyboy

24 minutes ago, DO_Summers said:

Cough cough.. Did someone mention trees? 

 

Bosco Verticale , Milan

 

PS: the Chief arborist is likely a very lucrative assignment... maybe generational in scope 

Now that's a cool looking building. 

Stole this from @NorthShore647

 

I always loved this prominent and distinctive view of the city. While I'm certainly in favor of developing the riverfront I really hate to lose this aesthetic. 

 

 

1 hour ago, surfohio said:

Stole this from @NorthShore647

 

I always loved this prominent and distinctive view of the city. While I'm certainly in favor of developing the riverfront I really hate to lose this aesthetic. 

 

 

 

It is a unique view.  However, I have always felt that the elevation below Huron Rd. had an unfinished look to it, with the beams sticking out and whatnot.  Hopefully Adjaye and his team can work some magic to make us forget about losing this view.

Perhaps they can do low-rise structures that won't completely obscure the view.

I don't have time today to fish around for it, but I remember the Forest City plan for that strip looking very prominent (and to @JohnSummit's point looking finished) while giving much more deference to the existing buildings. 

Wow, that model has the Rock Hall and AmeriTrust tower.   I assume Neiman Marcus was in there somewhere too.

 

Edited August 4, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd

I feel the rock hall would’ve been better here, hopefully they can design and attract a tourist draw like that in this location. We have to transition away from Bar, restaurant, bar and restaurant etc. I think it’s time to transition to recreational things. A mini navy pier type concept would be great here imo.


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13 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I feel the rock hall would’ve been better here, hopefully they can design and attract a tourist draw like that in this location. We have to transition away from Bar, restaurant, bar and restaurant etc. I think it’s time to transition to recreational things. A mini navy pier type concept would be great here imo.


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I'd rather see loads of residential.   Tourism would only be brief in the summer months.  A couple thousand residents living on the river and supporting TC retail would be more impactful.  I'd love to see some sort of inlet from the river with a marina incorporated.  

^ It is likely that some or all of the existing SHW HQ will be converted to residential. 

So, what happened to Bedrock's Thurday announcement?  For those who can't read the citation, it says Bedrock will announce Phase 0.0 of a thirty-year development project on Thursday, which I took for yesterday.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2022/08/01/bedrock-first-phase-downtown-cleveland.html

 

I thought that was the trees and streetscape stuff

Just now, Whipjacka said:

I thought that was the trees and streetscape stuff

Me too; but I thought we would get more on Thursday - maybe a hint of what their new architect is up to.

Phase 0.0 is the streetscape stuff that went before planning today.

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I'd rather see loads of residential.   Tourism would only be brief in the summer months.  A couple thousand residents living on the river and supporting TC retail would be more impactful.  I'd love to see some sort of inlet from the river with a marina incorporated.  

 

I see that stretch as sort of a civic "back porch" for the city: lots of public access with shopping, event space, recreation and residential too. It would be great to design in a way there's a seamless walkable retail component that stretches out from Tower City. 

Tons of renderings of their streetscaping plans starting page 252. Anything would help the vibe walking down Ontario or Prospect through Tower City.

 

https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/drcagenda/2022/PDF/CPC-presentation-08-05-2022.pdf

Field conditions = brown concrete buildings and burned out street lamps! 

 

Table stakes in many cities but these are certainly welcomed updates.  Kudos to RM team for bringing them forward.

I believe their "outdoor" slot machines are on the other side of these planters. Pretty sure they double as concrete barriers to that section.

 

 

Man, that is brutal.

On 8/4/2022 at 1:03 PM, JohnSummit said:

 

It is a unique view.  However, I have always felt that the elevation below Huron Rd. had an unfinished look to it, with the beams sticking out and whatnot.  Hopefully Adjaye and his team can work some magic to make us forget about losing this view.

Yeah, I don't think this is the "aesthetic" that we would miss, but in fact really needs to be improved.

A few quick updates. I guess the food court is now called “The Eatery”, a couple of restaurants are going in, Rainbow moved downstairs in a reshuffle. A local boutique as filled the spot of GameStop. Overall, new changes but I still don’t see the vision and I don’t think he has a real solid one, just throwing things at the wall and see what sticks.


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16 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

A few quick updates. I guess the food court is now called “The Eatery”, a couple of restaurants are going in, Rainbow moved downstairs in a reshuffle. A local boutique as filled the spot of GameStop. Overall, new changes but I still don’t see the vision and I don’t think he has a real solid one, just throwing things at the wall and see what sticks.


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Oh dang, half moon/ I'd go down to Tower City just for one of those cubanos.