September 21, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: A few quick updates. I guess the food court is now called “The Eatery”, a couple of restaurants are going in, Rainbow moved downstairs in a reshuffle. A local boutique as filled the spot of GameStop. Overall, new changes but I still don’t see the vision and I don’t think he has a real solid one, just throwing things at the wall and see what sticks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yooo, these are some good adds. I actually opted for Nuevo the other day - not knockout but also pretty good. The surrounding stalls are going to have to step up their game a bit to keep customers. Now I just wish we still had two competing chinese spots in there - the one in the corner was better (and cheaper!) than Cajun Joes or whatever they call themselves lol. Also, last week the patio area was open, idk the last time I was able to venture out there - 3-4 years ago? Edited September 21, 20222 yr by GISguy
October 2, 20222 yr To the main point, great to see life of some/any kind at Tower City - anytime. I just find it interesting that they set up the stage in front of “the park” display - strange spot considering seating for an audience.
October 2, 20222 yr idk what they're called, banners?, but the banners on the lightpoles coming across the Lorain Carnegie bridge have advertisements up for Tower City. Idk what lit the fire under Gilbert (NBA ASG?, water damage finally cleaned up?), but after owning it for however many years and not doing anything they sure have been on a tear with it lately.
October 3, 20222 yr That walkway looks like sh*t... I admittedly haven't read this thread in a little while. I have no idea how this is better than the fountain.
October 3, 20222 yr 9 hours ago, ArtDecoSquirrel said: That walkway looks like sh*t... I admittedly haven't read this thread in a little while. I have no idea how this is better than the fountain. At this point open floor space would be a drastic visual improvement to this....thing.
October 3, 20222 yr 1 minute ago, originaljbw said: Wait until the grasses and plants grow in better. 🤪 boooo! lol
October 24, 20222 yr Nov 3, 4-6pm -- Crains real estate forum: Panelists: Richard Pace CEO, Cumberland Development LLC Deb Janik Senior Vice President of Business Development, Bedrock Jeff Epstein Chief of Integrated Development, City of Cleveland Moderator: Michelle Jarboe Enterprise Reporter, Crain's Cleveland Business The Madison 4601 Payne Ave. Cleveland, OH 44103 "A riveting discussion about the lakefront and the river, at a time when public and private players alike are floating big visions — and chasing federal and state money to tackle formidable challenges. The city of Cleveland is building on the Vision for the Valley plan, which creates a framework for investments along 8 miles of the river. Incipient projects promise to turn underused riverfront land into places where people live, work, wander and linger. What will it take for a new crop of investors, and fresh civic leadership, to create compelling and broadly accessible connections to Lake Erie and the Cuyahoga River?"
October 24, 20222 yr Author 38 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: If they can still build this thing with 8% interest rates, God bless 'em. I think we've become spoiled. The prime rate averaged 6.49 percent over the past 70 years and, between 1970-2000, it was above 8 percent more often than below it. Most of the Sunbelt was built at 8 percent and higher. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 24, 20222 yr 49 minutes ago, KJP said: I think we've become spoiled. The prime rate averaged 6.49 percent over the past 70 years and, between 1970-2000, it was above 8 percent more often than below it. Most of the Sunbelt was built at 8 percent and higher. I have always relished your generally positive outlook @KJP when it comes to development in Cleveland but on this one I am unfortunately in agreement with @LlamaLawyer as far as seeing anything along the river behind Tower City in the "short term". It is not only interest rates but other factors unique to Bedrock. Interest rates affect all businesses, especially in terms of development, but it affects a company like Bedrock even more directly given it is a mortgage company. Its revenue and profits are going to be taking a hit in the near term and I would not be surprised if they shed some employees soon to control costs. Not really a time to be in an expansion mode. Moreover, Bedrock appears to be a cautious company (probably not a bad thing) which does not seem to move at the speed of light. Its current new construction in Detroit is a good example of that. Indeed, company officials were upfront when first announcing the project when they said the development was going to be a 25-30 year long process. I was pleasantly surprised this year when it seemed they might be speeding up the process with retention of a star planner but recent events have cooled my hopes. Top all this off with continuing supply and labor issues in the construction industry and the continuing questions regarding remote work and how this will affect the need for office space and I really think the brakes are probably going to be applied. I guess the only thing in favor of expansion is Bedrock's soon to expire lease in the Higbee Building. However, I am sure the Higbee owners would be more than happy to extend that lease, even if it is not a long term thing, as I imagine they don't have other suitors beating down their doors for the space. I would not be surprised if somebody revealed those negotiations are ongoing as I type this. Edited October 24, 20222 yr by Htsguy
October 24, 20222 yr Author I didn't respond to the development efficacy of Bedrock, which is certainly debatable. I'm debating the importance of interest rates in Bedrock's decision making which is the issue that @LlamaLawyer raised. BTW, is something interesting happening with the Higbee Building, 100 Public Square? I saw that the owner is seeking an extension of its tax increment financing. Plus, it's interesting that Sherwin-Williams has put offices in there. There's probably room for them because Rocket Mortgage is likely reducing staff because of declining mortgage business. That makes me wonder if Bedrock no longer has such an acute need to accommodate Rocket Mortgage elsewhere. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 25, 20222 yr 8 hours ago, Htsguy said: Moreover, Bedrock appears to be a cautious company (probably not a bad thing) which does not seem to move at the speed of light. Rocket Mortgage stock is down from $23 to a bit over $6. Even if that doesn't endanger any Bedrock project financing, it makes even somebody like Gilbert cautious. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
October 25, 20222 yr ^ unfortunately nothing will affect development movement more than value and rates. also the housing market is dead for now. and then you factor in the intangibles, like gilberts health. so developments seem off the table for the foreseeable future. assuming someone will attend the upcoming re panel maybe there is more to learn. ideally i would at least like to hear what david adjaye is up to so far since he came on to consult bedrock in april.
October 25, 20222 yr 30 minutes ago, mrnyc said: assuming someone will attend the upcoming re panel maybe there is more to learn. ideally i would at least like to hear what david adjaye is up to so far since he came on to consult bedrock in april. Hopefully. Such a panel could be very informative. But in my mind Bedrock press and public events are usually not very enlightening. Lots of generalities and cheer leading with very little substance.
October 25, 20222 yr I assume that Cleveland is a somewhat lucrative market to develop properties in, barring the interest rates are favorable for developers. However, based on what I've read, the ROI on real estate development in Cleveland runs a fine line on profitability, and I'm concerned high interest rates may knock a lot of projects out of play. Sure, the Sunbelt developed with rates at 8%, but the ROI in the Sunbelt is insane.
October 25, 20222 yr 16 minutes ago, Jenny said: I assume that Cleveland is a somewhat lucrative market to develop properties in, barring the interest rates are favorable for developers. However, based on what I've read, the ROI on real estate development in Cleveland runs a fine line on profitability, and I'm concerned high interest rates may knock a lot of projects out of play. Sure, the Sunbelt developed with rates at 8%, but the ROI in the Sunbelt is insane. not to mention, much cheaper to build and less taxes to pay.
October 25, 20222 yr What a difference a year makes. Things were looking pretty good a year ago for new development downtown. Now, not so rosy. Edited October 25, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd
October 25, 20222 yr Author 3 hours ago, Jenny said: but the ROI in the Sunbelt is insane. WAS insane. The Sun Belt is now the drought/fire/storm surge belt. The rent growth in Cleveland and other Midwest-Northeast metros are now the highest in the country. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 25, 20222 yr 24 minutes ago, KJP said: WAS insane. The Sun Belt is now the drought/fire/storm surge belt. The rent growth in Cleveland and other Midwest-Northeast metros are now the highest in the country. I think it's reasonable to expect every part of the country to get slammed. The difference is this time the midwest-northeast is positioned for a smaller dip and quick recovery, while the southwest (and to much a lesser extent the southeast) looks like a bubble that could take a decade or more for prices to recover. The average home in Las Vegas is "worth" 50% more than two years ago. That's a bubble. So, back to Bedrock. I really hope they can still start work soon. I agree that 7% interest rates (although shocking to a millennial like me) are normal and probably healthy. There's a good argument to be made that higher interest rates would be beneficial long term as they encourage banks to lend more freely. But in the short term everybody's balance sheet starts looking really bad really fast. To one of the points above, Rocket just had huge amounts of equity erased. So they may suddenly be waayy overleveraged because low interest rates have been artificially inflating land and housing prices.
October 27, 20222 yr Author FYI Record B22028144: Work Location 50 Public Square CLEVELAND OH 44113 Record Details Project Description: Concrete Distress Over RTA Track 10 @ Tower City Overhead Structural Concrete Repair Over RTA Track 10 at The Tower City Station Owner: Bedrock 630 Woodward Ave Detroit MI 48226 Responsible Party information Eric Nutter Donley's 5430 Warner Road Cleveland, OH, 44125 Design Professional information Barber Hoffman 2217 East 9th Street Suite 350 Cleveland, OH, 44115 Job Value($): $300,000.00 Number of Buildings: 1 Nature of Job Description.: Correct Violation Use Group 1: S-2 Storage - Low Hazard Construction Class: IIB Certificate of Occupancy Required: No "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 10, 20222 yr New food and retail coming to Tower City this Winter Food: - Cleveland Sandwich Co - Shake & Slide Retail - Into My Bag Collection by Tianna B - Darlafoxx - Mi’Amour will double in size with a new storefront - Rainbow (already open) https://clevelandmagazine.com/style/shops-boutiques/articles/tower-city-center-announces-five-new-retail-and-dining-options Edited November 10, 20222 yr by Ethan
November 11, 20222 yr I think TC would be a better location for the Cavs team shop, permanently. Also serve as a semi destination store that’s more accessible than RMFH.
November 14, 20222 yr On 11/11/2022 at 1:26 PM, ASP1984 said: Can we get a WeWork in Tower City already Honest to god no idea why this comment is considered "Poison". There are next to no co-working spaces downtown and with an increasing residential, remote working population, it would massively improve quality of life. Edited November 14, 20222 yr by ASP1984
November 14, 20222 yr there's one in Ohio City. Not We-Work but it's called CoHatch. Not sure how successful it is I'm usually over there at night so it's empty.
November 14, 20222 yr 16 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said: there's one in Ohio City. Not We-Work but it's called CoHatch. Not sure how successful it is I'm usually over there at night so it's empty. The quarter has a coworking space next to Leko coffee, theres limelight near Dave’s supermarket, there’s spaces In the warehouse district, another limelight in electric gardens, there’s easily at least 10 in the area Edited November 14, 20222 yr by BoomerangCleRes
November 14, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, ASP1984 said: Honest to god no idea why this comment is considered "Poison". There are next to no co-working spaces downtown and with an increasing residential, remote working population, it would massively improve quality of life. WeWork is a terrible company but that's a discussion for another part of the forum. Searching google for "coworking spaces downtown Cleveland" yields a bunch of results. It looks like quite a few are scattered in the downtown core.
November 14, 20222 yr On 11/14/2022 at 1:39 PM, BoomerangCleRes said: The quarter has a coworking space next to Leko coffee, theres limelight near Dave’s supermarket, there’s spaces In the warehouse district, another limelight in electric gardens, there’s easily at least 10 in the area Dude you just referenced co-working spaces across the city of Cleveland. There are 2 downtown. My point is that Tower City is fantastic for this specific use - its transit accessible, plenty of indoor walking space, and (could be) immediately accessible to lunch options in the mall, which would obviously benefit from the foot traffic. As for WeWork, had a subscription in Boston and quite enjoyed it. Whether its that or something else, I don't really care. But my apologies - let's all get back to cheerleading the idea of a Cavs merch shop. After all, this is Cleveland, where interest in discussing how we repackage local sports economy dollars for the upteenth time springs eternal. Edited November 16, 20222 yr by ASP1984
November 17, 20222 yr Winterland in Tower City looks great! They even filled in some of the vacant storefronts with Christmas decor, which is a great touch! Also, basically all of the escalators are now functional!!! If it wasn't obvious before DarlaFoxx is filling in the old Brooks Brothers space, that's such a nice space, so I'm glad to see it get filled. Even more, it looks like they are finally repairing one of the fountains! And it looks like the DCA/CPD combo is moving quickly.
November 18, 20222 yr 4 hours ago, CleveFan said: Wonder when those pics was taken? @Ethan? Pretty late at night, after 8pm, so everything was already closed.
November 18, 20222 yr This video doesn't do it justice but the windows do look really nice dressed up. I'm kind of impressed with how much Gilbert/Bedrock has started to take ownership of the space...
November 18, 20222 yr On 9/21/2022 at 4:54 PM, GISguy said: Yooo, these are some good adds. I actually opted for Nuevo the other day - not knockout but also pretty good. The surrounding stalls are going to have to step up their game a bit to keep customers. Now I just wish we still had two competing chinese spots in there - the one in the corner was better (and cheaper!) than Cajun Joes or whatever they call themselves lol. Also, last week the patio area was open, idk the last time I was able to venture out there - 3-4 years ago? Was it "Master Wok"?
November 18, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, dski44 said: Was it "Master Wok"? Sounds right. That place was great...well by TC standards Edited November 18, 20222 yr by GISguy
November 30, 20222 yr Author I'm hearing some rumblings that an announcement may be made this week. Something big. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 30, 20222 yr Author Apparently Sir David Adjaye is ready to show us his visions. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 30, 20222 yr I like visions. Hopefully there is $$ to pay for it. Too often that is not the case in Cleveland.
November 30, 20222 yr Bedrock already showed their 30 year vision a while back Hopefully this will be different, with something happening in my lifetime. Edited November 30, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd
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