Except for the news that Bedrock is buying SHW's old HQ and R&D. To me, that's more significant than the masterplan.

Are there ground floor retail spaces attached to the landmark building?

Speaking of which, if Gilbert is enamored with outdoor retail shopping, why hasn’t he filled the ones on prospect? Right behind Tower city aka close to the train station, literally the final stop for multiple bus routes, next to a high end hotel, and on the same street as his casino. Seems like the perfect place to jumpstart this area he is trying to build up.


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19 hours ago, dski44 said:

Headquarters for Rocket Mortgage and a new courthouse tower would put this in front of the other projects....imo

If the courthouse tower can be made part of this project, it could also help with securing infrastructure improvements by having the county involved.

 

usnt bedrock taking over landmark (and breen)? why would they need a new building?

 

or maybe is something else going on with landmark??

12 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

 

usnt bedrock taking over landmark (and breen)? why would they need a new building?

 

or maybe is something else going on with landmark??

when it comes to office space Landmark is a dated nightmare, and would probably cost a fortune to bring up to modern standards if that is even possible given the floor plates.  Even turning it into residential is probably going to be a challenge as I believe there is a ton of square footage very distant from windows.

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

when it comes to office space Landmark is a dated nightmare, and would probably cost a fortune to bring up to modern standards if that is even possible given the floor plates.  Even turning it into residential is probably going to be a challenge as I believe there is a ton of square footage very distant from windows.

I'd assume based on when Landmark was built, removing interior floor/portions of the building could create dramatic lightwells.

This part of the PR is pretty vague so I'm curious what this means, especially the bold text portion....

 

With mobility in focus, Bedrock, in collaboration with the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (GCRTA), and select civic partners, including the City of Cleveland, will explore plans for an advanced mobility hub, comprised of a multi-modal pathway, stronger connection points between rail and bus, and enhanced ADA access.  

 

https://bedrockdetroit.com/press-releases/riverfront-redefined-bedrock-and-the-city-of-cleveland-unveil-the-cuyahoga-riverfront-master-plan/

I have to say, Cleveland excels at planned neighborhood renderings.  Remember those for Flats East Bank and Thunderbird for example.  Compare those to what we get.  😉

Is Bedrock limited on what they can do with the Historic Landmark status of Tower City?  Forest City had to make sure many of the details were preserved when adding The Avenue to the property

The press release has the same pics, but in high res. I really like the human scale parts, like the curved boardwalk and plazas. Like @urb-a-saurus said, hopefully this turns out more like the concepts, and less how FEB and Scranton are turning out.

 

https://www.rockmedialibrary.com/c/wxytszge

 

 

 

 

It looks like Eagle Ave. getting rebuilt is on their minds.

realignment of canal to the other side of the power pant?

On 12/2/2022 at 12:25 PM, ASPhotoman said:

Looks like they looked at the Beacon and were like..."more".

Except if you look at that birds-eye wide shot, it is from before the Beacon was there!

Edited December 4, 20222 yr by JohnSummit
Typo

What about the pre-existing plan for the terrace connecting W. Huron and the river? Could it be possible that Adjaye's team doesn't know about it? 

i think lame obvious move in audrey here needs a few wachs -- does she really have to start it off like this ... again? jeebus!! 🤬

 

 

 

Go with the Flow

David Adjaye’s riverfront master plan gives us a reason to visit Cleveland

 

By Audrey Wachs • December 2, 2022 • Midwest, News, Urbanism

 

 

Of all the cities in the U.S., Cleveland gets dunked on quite a bit. A viral video from the aughts joked that the city’s main export is crippling depression. It’s desirability as a vacation destination was questioned by a two-time NBA All-Star. A failed 1980s campaign tried to rebrand the city as The Big Plum, an apparent attempt to capitalize on the fruit branding of a larger, more prosperous coastal city. Haters clearly haven’t tried the city’s outstanding regional sandwich, visited the gorgeous art museum, spent a day biking around the wide, flat streets on the West Side, or read the news that the Ohio city is “the next Venice.” 

 

more:

https://www.archpaper.com/2022/12/david-adjayes-riverfront-master-plan-gives-reason-visit-cleveland/

6 hours ago, mrnyc said:

i think lame obvious move in audrey here needs a few wachs -- does she really have to start it off like this ... again? jeebus!! 🤬

 

 

 

Go with the Flow

David Adjaye’s riverfront master plan gives us a reason to visit Cleveland

 

By Audrey Wachs • December 2, 2022 • Midwest, News, Urbanism

 

 

Of all the cities in the U.S., Cleveland gets dunked on quite a bit. A viral video from the aughts joked that the city’s main export is crippling depression. It’s desirability as a vacation destination was questioned by a two-time NBA All-Star. A failed 1980s campaign tried to rebrand the city as The Big Plum, an apparent attempt to capitalize on the fruit branding of a larger, more prosperous coastal city. Haters clearly haven’t tried the city’s outstanding regional sandwich, visited the gorgeous art museum, spent a day biking around the wide, flat streets on the West Side, or read the news that the Ohio city is “the next Venice.” 

 

more:

https://www.archpaper.com/2022/12/david-adjayes-riverfront-master-plan-gives-reason-visit-cleveland/

While I agree with the annoying punching-down in the lead of that article, it looks like that publication has a number of very well written pieces on arts and architecture in Cleveland. Hit the “Cleveland” tag at the bottom of the article to bring them up. I enjoyed them.

2 hours ago, brtshrcegr said:

While I agree with the annoying punching-down in the lead of that article, it looks like that publication has a number of very well written pieces on arts and architecture in Cleveland. Hit the “Cleveland” tag at the bottom of the article to bring them up. I enjoyed them.

 

normally i enjoy archpaper. that was a big and lame disappointment. and i let the editor know just that. also frankly because the young move ins that do things like that are a peeve of mine.

19 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

 

normally i enjoy archpaper. that was a big and lame disappointment. and i let the editor know just that. also frankly because the young move ins that do things like that are a peeve of mine.

 
Hey, at least I didn’t literally laugh-out-loud like I did when I read Lift’s review of this plan. His “a city with decades of shrinking population” trope is borderline farcical at this point. 

 

On 12/2/2022 at 2:23 PM, Htsguy said:

Especially when they will be competing for funds with whatever is FINALLY presented for the lakefront and given public officials (especially city council) who will be skeptical to say the least (the usual council argument... too much investment in downtown at the expense of the neighborhoods).  I mean it really is a bit of fantasy if they are looking for extensive public financing, which I am sure they are.  Look at all the time and effort it took to get Irishtown Bend Park financed.  It appears to me that Canal Basic Park still struggles to find funding even though it has been around forever.  At today's Planning Commission meeting it was revealed that the the Loarain Avenue bike way, another long standing project, is not even half funded and it did not appear like they knew at this point where the additional money will come from.  I am not quite sure that the Superior Midway is fully funded, and even if it is construction will not begin until 2025.  I am sure Bedrock is going to have its hands out like it does in Detroit, but I don't think these pretty pictures are going to help much.

I'm as cynical as the next Clevelander, but I disagree with many here that this is pie in the sky planning, and I disagree that public financing will be an obstacle to making this happen.  First, Public/Private partnerships for major development is the norm these days.  Public money/participation was integral in RoMoFiHo renovations, Progressive Field renovations, SHW HQ, the Convention Center, Downtown Hilton, etc.  Not to mention the historic tax credits and TMUD that helped many projects.  Why would anyone think public financing is a non-starter?  Second, public financing is a much easier proposition when a project has a direct economic benefit.  That's why these projects got public money and parks and bike lanes continue to struggle.  Third, Bedrock isn't the type of developer to use a shotgun approach.  They have a long track record of successful urban development.  They own the land, have a ton of money, and they've been completing these types of projects for years.  That is why this feels very different from other master plans to me.  Call me crazy, but I'm hopeful that this will result in something big.

1 hour ago, Dino said:

I'm as cynical as the next Clevelander, but I disagree with many here that this is pie in the sky planning, and I disagree that public financing will be an obstacle to making this happen.  First, Public/Private partnerships for major development is the norm these days.  Public money/participation was integral in RoMoFiHo renovations, Progressive Field renovations, SHW HQ, the Convention Center, Downtown Hilton, etc.  Not to mention the historic tax credits and TMUD that helped many projects.  Why would anyone think public financing is a non-starter?  Second, public financing is a much easier proposition when a project has a direct economic benefit.  That's why these projects got public money and parks and bike lanes continue to struggle.  Third, Bedrock isn't the type of developer to use a shotgun approach.  They have a long track record of successful urban development.  They own the land, have a ton of money, and they've been completing these types of projects for years.  That is why this feels very different from other master plans to me.  Call me crazy, but I'm hopeful that this will result in something big.

So I'm clear, are they actually asking for public financing for the apartment buildings etc., or is it for "infrastructure improvements" such as stabilization work that will allow this all to be built. I know it's a semantic difference, but the latter can probably come from infrastructure bill money or ARPA money. And, believe it or not, the city has so much ARPA money it still hasn't figured out how to use it all yet.

9 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

So I'm clear, are they actually asking for public financing for the apartment buildings etc., or is it for "infrastructure improvements" such as stabilization work that will allow this all to be built. I know it's a semantic difference, but the latter can probably come from infrastructure bill money or ARPA money. And, believe it or not, the city has so much ARPA money it still hasn't figured out how to use it all yet.

 

Infrastructure improvements are also costs that the city is going to have to incur (to some extent) if this area is redeveloped and the improvements would presumably benefit parcels beyond what Bedrock currently owns, making those adjacent parcels more attractive for (re)development. 

15 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

So I'm clear, are they actually asking for public financing for the apartment buildings etc., or is it for "infrastructure improvements" such as stabilization work that will allow this all to be built. I know it's a semantic difference, but the latter can probably come from infrastructure bill money or ARPA money. And, believe it or not, the city has so much ARPA money it still hasn't figured out how to use it all yet.

You are correct.  It isn't clear.  So far Bedrock has been big into hugely hyped press events without a lot of concrete information.  This tactic is actually starting to get old.  That said, I would not be surprised if, in long run, they will be seeking not only infrastructure improvements (which of course are needed and should be within the public realm) but some sort of public financing for actual buildings if Bedrock's development history in Detroit is a guide.  Again the well in Cleveland is not that deep and I stand by that.

 

8 hours ago, brtshrcegr said:

While I agree with the annoying punching-down in the lead of that article, it looks like that publication has a number of very well written pieces on arts and architecture in Cleveland. Hit the “Cleveland” tag at the bottom of the article to bring them up. I enjoyed them.

 

...when I saw the title, I thought to myself...hmm...a young architecture freelancer living on the Upper West Side, trying to justify the $3500-month rent.  Yup, nailed it.

Edited December 5, 20222 yr by PaxtonMarley

On 12/3/2022 at 3:12 AM, KJP said:

 

Except for the news that Bedrock is buying SHW's old HQ and R&D. To me, that's more significant than the masterplan.

That is definitely good news in all seriousness. Renderings and masterplans as good as these can easily suck you in however so I'll just keep my expectations rock bottom for now to avoid disappointment, i.e. Nucleus.

Edited December 5, 20222 yr by snakebite

On 12/2/2022 at 8:58 AM, Ethan said:

 

I don't like it and I hope I'm not the minority in this because it just looks.....weird. Too many weird looking buildings and what is going on with the Terminal Tower with the hard-on? Why can't we just have an extension of the Irish Town Park instead of all of those buildings clustered together? The whole thing looks like it was created in the 70s. 

It almost looks like they trying to market to single end users. Versus building tall and looking for big anchor tenants, and waiting for company to backfill the space.  Bottom line, these are just concepts to market the development to commercial/retail/hotel operators.  They'll all be individual projects with a much different look then we're seeing here.  

Remember about 10-15 years ago when Stark had what l thought was a really cool plan for a large Warehouse District development? It looked exactly like what was needed to fill in all those parking lots. There were only two problems. The first was Stark wasn't able to entice any tenets to lease the ground floor retail space. Without them he couldn't secure financing for the residential portion either. The second problem was Stark is more of a salesman than he is a developer. Oh he did create the Beacon and Crocker Park but l always got the impression he wanted to create so much more and just didn't have the funds.

 

Bedrock has deeper pockets for sure but l don't know how much of this is pure speculation (ala Stark) and how much is real. At this point l remain sceptical.

8 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said:

 

 

...when I saw the title, I thought to myself...hmm...a young architecture freelancer living on the Upper West Side, trying to justify the $3500-month rent.  Yup, nailed it.

 

and archpaper sure as heck ain’t paying that rent … but you can rest easy her parents are. 🤮

It’s kind of like lakefront planning - except that I don’t think we’ve had nearly as many plans over the years for the riverfront. I am really encouraged by the new energy vis a vis the riverfront. 
 

No need to even concern ourselves with the look of the buildings in the latest Bedrock reveal.  I’m sure they’re just doing everything they can to try to generate some excitement  and motivate the city to spend the kind of money that will probably be necessary to prepare the site from an infrastructure standpoint. 
 

Hopefully, we can get a new new  residential high rise (or two) on the site in the not greatly distanced future  - I think the potential city, riverfront and lake views make that a possibility - especially with the trend towards urban life - the location, if “cleaned up” will be extremely unique.  
 

Imagine something like the high rise imagined a few years ago near the Viaduct in the flats. That building was super sexy - and I bet new construction on that level,  on the riverfront would fill up super fast. 
 

Hopefully, Bedrock’s p.r. Campaign will have its intended effect and the market economy  will return to pre pandemic conditions.  
 

I still want Cleveland to have a roaring 20’s - the decade is still fairly young - but it’s moving fast…

Edited December 6, 20222 yr by CleveFan

^ if the city can get the sewers upgraded and the riveredge stabilized that would really set the table.

 

sharpen those grant application writing pencils and somebody get the corps of engineers on the blower …!

11 hours ago, cadmen said:

Remember about 10-15 years ago when Stark had what l thought was a really cool plan for a large Warehouse District development? It looked exactly like what was needed to fill in all those parking lots. 

More recently, in 2015 I believe, Weston had a really cool plan for a large WD development. But unlike Stark, they owned a lot of the property.  Sadly, that plan fizzled out.

36 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

More recently, in 2015 I believe, Weston had a really cool plan for a large WD development. But unlike Stark, they owned a lot of the property.  Sadly, that plan fizzled out.

Weston really never had a "plan".  They just had some pretty conceptual pictures which an in house intern probably created.

^ Yeah, sorta like the Stark model. I loved the look of both plans and would have been thrilled if either came to fruition. Sadly, some of the best designs have been nothing more than proposals while many of the designs that actually HAVE been built have been kinda mediocre.

^To be fair I think at least Stark had a vision and started a conversation about the warehouse district.  He just didn't own the land and certainly did not have the resources to carry out something so extensive.  Weston actually owned the land and then simply published a picture and said "wouldn't this be nice on our land".  Quite frankly Weston probably did not have the resources either and it was some sort of marketing ploy for the land.  We see that a lot with these "conceptual vision renderings" which have no chance in hell of happening.  A favorite of mine from a pretty picture stand point was the one 7-8 years on Jacobs land on the west bank of the flats.  

 

Sorry if I sound grumpy but after more than 50 years of development master plans for parcels all over the city ( some multiple times on one particular site) that turn out to just be hype, I am some what over it.  I know this happens all over, even in places like New York and Chicago, but it just starts to wear on a person.  I guess one good thing is that they do foster discussion about urban development in general.

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

More recently, in 2015 I believe, Weston had a really cool plan for a large WD development. But unlike Stark, they owned a lot of the property.  Sadly, that plan fizzled out.

Let’s not forget the bus transit station plan. Holy smokes did we dodge a bullet there.

18 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Weston actually owned the land and then simply published a picture and said "wouldn't this be nice on our land".  Quite frankly Weston probably did not have the resources either and it was some sort of marketing ploy for the land.  We see that a lot with these "conceptual vision renderings" which have no chance in hell of happening.  

Perhaps Weston could have teamed up with a Fortune 500 company in need of a new building, maybe a company like Sherwin Williams. Oh well. 

15 hours ago, jbee1982 said:

I don't like it and I hope I'm not the minority in this because it just looks.....weird. Too many weird looking buildings...

Getting back on topic, I don't like it either. It is too cluttered IMO. But we need not worry. Whatever is built there will likely look much different.

My opinion is that everything between Canal Rd and the river should be public parks and trails. 

20 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Getting back on topic, I don't like it either. It is too cluttered IMO. But we need not worry. Whatever is built there will likely look much different.

I wholeheartedly agree, we shouldn't be putting too much into the specifics of how this "plan" looks.  There are things that I really like about this plan, however, such as the idea of opening Tower City toward the riverfront and including a riverfront park.  I don't like the rendered proposal, but providing a gateway to the riverfront and a park would give more people a reason to travel through Tower City.

 

Let's see what Bedrock does with Tower City, which they should be able to start without any assistance from the city.  Meanwhile, hopefully Cleveland, the County, and the Port Authority can find a way to stabilize the shore and improve the utilities in the area.  By the time that is done, we can revisit what park space will look like, what space rail will need, what land is really available for further development, and what that development actually looks like.   I'm as impatient as anyone, but actual buildings between TC and the river and their specific design seems to be quite a few years down the road.

21 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

My opinion is that everything between Canal Rd and the river should be public parks and trails. 

 

With Irishtown bend, canal basin park, heritage parks and Scranton flats there is a whole lot of nearby greenspace.  I think a mix of pocket spaces and a boardwalk interspersed and bordered by buildings and patios and restaurants would be the best way to activate.   We've got a lot of greenspace in Cleveland that is nice for occasional events but otherwise sits mostly empty.  

2 hours ago, RMB said:

 

With Irishtown bend, canal basin park, heritage parks and Scranton flats there is a whole lot of nearby greenspace.  I think a mix of pocket spaces and a boardwalk interspersed and bordered by buildings and patios and restaurants would be the best way to activate.   We've got a lot of greenspace in Cleveland that is nice for occasional events but otherwise sits mostly empty.  

 

Agreed.

 

Things that make cities great (other than greenspace): People. Density. Activity. This plan strikes a great balance with all.

 

Edited December 7, 20222 yr by ASP1984

https://www.fastcompany.com/90823679/cleveland-15-minute-city

“The firm just completed a master plan for the area; the first steps for construction could begin in 2024, depending on the city permitting process, but the full project will take 15 to 20 years.”

Not sure if the 2024 timeline has been mentioned

 

Brownfield grants reveal progress on many projects
By Ken Prendergast / December 17, 2022

 

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced $88 million in state support for 123 brownfield remediation projects that will help clean up hazardous and underutilized sites throughout the state. The Ohio Department of Development is funding the awards through the Ohio Brownfield Remediation Program, which is designed to clean up and prepare hazardous brownfield sites for redevelopment. The projects announced today will impact communities in 35 counties across the state.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/17/brownfield-grants-reveal-progress-on-many-projects/

New Retail at Tower City. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/new-businesses-open-in-tower-city-center-giving-hope-of-rebound

Posted in the Gateway megaproject thread since that's where Bedrock will likely develop first. But there's lots of references to Tower City/Riverfront in here as well.......

 

8 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Rock Ventures: First Detroit, now Cleveland
By Ken Prendergast / January 24, 2023

 

Billionaire Dan Gilbert can ride up and down Woodward Avenue in downtown Detroit and admire his work like no one else can. He can point at buildings like a kid checking out baseball cards in a collector’s showcase and say “got it, need it, got it, got it…”

 

Perhaps he and his real estate company Bedrock might have the opportunity to do that soon in downtown Cleveland, too. And while Euclid Avenue is our main street like Woodward is Detroit’s, most of Gilbert’s acquisitions in Cleveland are along Prospect Avenue and Huron Road. There are some other differences as well, which may offer the opportunity for seeing some more construction workers and cranes in downtown Cleveland. Thankfully, Gilbert can count his properties and his blessings as he is almost fully recovered from a 2019 stroke.

 

MORE

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/01/24/rock-ventures-first-detroit-now-cleveland/

 

Indirectly encouraging news:  Rocket Mortgage stock is back to where it was (mid-9s) before the Fed began raising rates, giving Gilbert more financial flexibility for his real estate ventures..  

On tap for this week's planning commission meeting is Bedrock Cleveland Cuyahoga Riverfront Private Development Plan: Informational Purposes Only. Presenter: Cullen Meves, MKSK. No images posted yet.

At least they know it used to be a rail hub.

 

11 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

At least they know it used to be a rail hub.

 

I’m still curious as to how they’re going to extend the Plaza from Tower City along Prospect and/or Huron. I thought I read about having to remove or modify part of the mall area… may someone elaborate on this? TIA. 

I don't like the layout at all. They just need to make the whole strip into a riverside park. No need for weirdly placed buildings. Focus on more of the empty parking lots further inland, not on the riverside. 

4 minutes ago, jbee1982 said:

I don't like the layout at all. They just need to make the whole strip into a riverside park. No need for weirdly placed buildings. Focus on more of the empty parking lots further inland, not on the riverside. 

I agree with you, but wonder how that would then affect activity at Irishtown bend directly across the way.

 

Bedrock lays out riverfront plan, steps
By Ken Prendergast / February 13, 2023

 

At the City Planning Commission's design-review meeting starting 9 a.m. Friday, representatives of Detroit-based Bedrock are scheduled to present more of its vision for downtown Cleveland's riverfront below Tower City Center. In addition to showing renderings of the buildings and public spaces, Bedrock's architectural team led by Adjaye Associates will lay out a schedule and a menu of items needed for building the infrastructural foundations to support the ambitious riverfront plan.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/02/13/bedrock-lays-out-riverfront-plan-steps/