When would this be happening? It looks like they're gonna knock down that old warehouse next to the Hope bridge. My Grandpa worked there until he died, and they built him a room to stay in since he lived a few counties away. I would love to see it one more time for old times sake.

On 9/21/2023 at 10:50 AM, Ethan said:

This was my initial thought as well, but per the article it is described as a "a hybrid wellness-athletics complex that will be open to the public." So we might be wrong. 
 
More from the article:
 
" “This center will not only serve our team on and off the court, but it will create an opportunity for the everyday athlete to receive state-of-the-art care in Northeast Ohio,” Gilbert said in a written statement."
 
Hopefully it is useful to the general public, and maybe they'll add a riverfront restaurant or something, though I wouldn't bet on that. I'll reserve judgement for now, I'm just glad something is getting built relatively quickly. 

Yeah I think the reality is that you need a strong anchor tenant to build commercial property, especially these days. Those just aren’t easy to come by in todays office environment, much less in Cleveland. So the Cavs+Cleveland Clinic sound about as any you could hope for. I like this for the fact that it could create amenities and spillover investments that get the ball rolling for hotels, restaurants, residential, and other mixed use space that could eventually be attractive to businesses.


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Edited September 22, 20231 yr by ASP1984

21 hours ago, Geowizical said:

RE: Lifeless, windowless practice facility

 

I think all these other NBA teams would beg to differ (2016 article, but still relevant):

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2016/06/06/Facilities/NBA-facilities.aspx

I’d love to be proved wrong, but it seems short sighted for a one story structure like this to take up valuable riverfront space. 

17 hours ago, ArtDecoSquirrel said:

When would this be happening? It looks like they're gonna knock down that old warehouse next to the Hope bridge. My Grandpa worked there until he died, and they built him a room to stay in since he lived a few counties away. I would love to see it one more time for old times sake.

 

Wow, that's neat. I'll just say that if they are demo'ing it there's definitely a window to get in and explore albeit brief, but it'll be there.

54 minutes ago, noname said:

I’d love to be proved wrong, but it seems short sighted for a one story structure like this to take up valuable riverfront space. 

Valuable?  It's vacant land sandwiched between an abandoned steam plant and mounds of iron ore and has been used as surface parking for decades.  Even the street (Eagle Ave.) to this piece of land has been abandoned.  And two of Cleveland's biggest stakeholders want to invest $20M+ (my own off the cuff estimate for a 50,000sf building with parking) to put a 4-5 story building (that's what the massings show) in this location?  That's not short sighted at all.  This location is really only attractive if the Riverfront Plan gets built out and that could take decades to happen.  I think the announcement is a signal in they are betting on the future.

On 9/21/2023 at 9:35 AM, Pigmeat said:

 

 

Cavs plan new downtown training complex with Cleveland Clinic

https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/cleveland-cavaliers-cleveland-clinic-plan-downtown-training-facility?utm_source=breaking-news-alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20230921&utm_content=article1-readmore

 

 

 

 

A preliminary massing study shows the proposed Cleveland Clinic Global Peak Performance Center in the Flats, at the southeastern end of Bedrock's sprawling riverfront site.

LOLing at the idea that the first floor of this should be parking. By valuable, I mean it is going to be valuable very soon with all of the development here. Relax, we can be critical and excited for things at the same time. I just think they could find a better location for this particular building and use.

Just a “before” photo.

On 9/21/2023 at 2:37 PM, BoomerangCleRes said:

And that was short stint and don’t forget Lebron lived in reserve square 

lol there is no way in hell Lebron lived in Reserve square

He and a few other Cavs players lived there in '03.

For those who are "in the know", a question I have on both the Tower City and Riverview developments:

 

Since Bedrock is committed to developing both properties, how do they plan on the two complementing each other? So far, what we've heard from Bedrock is that Riverview will have a retail component to it in addition to the 2,000+ residential units. What type of retail are we expecting this to be, and how will the redevelopment of Tower City's retail presence not be redundant?

 

Here's one idea I had: What if the Riverview development featured the more prominent retail presence while Tower City tailored itself more towards the everyday needs of both downtown Cleveland residents and commuters frequenting the underground station? These offerings could include an urban Target (for groceries and pharmacy needs), grab-and-go convenience stores such as Amazon Go, and retailers that focused on other everyday or travel needs? Ideally, I'm envisioning something that resembles the Union Stations you'd find in Washington D.C. or Kansas City. You could even lure the Downtown Cleveland group into moving their visitors center from East 4th St to Tower City, especially if we ever get the Amtrak or CVSR in there. Would be interested to hear what the rest of the site thought.

 

Edit: or, here's a really radical idea: scrap the majority of the retail from Tower City altogether and reinvent it into an entertainment destination. Bring in a lot of the attractions you'd find at places such as the Mall of America or the American Dream Mall. A few examples could be the return of the movie theater (B&B Theatres is know for its high-end urban theaters), exhibits such as SeaLife or a LEGOLand Discovery Center, and other high-tech attractions like Puttshack, Fly Over America, Activate, or the Paradox Museum. Heck, put a ferris wheel where the fountains are in the main atrium. Get creative with it and build something that would attract people to Tower City both locally and regionally.

Edited September 24, 20231 yr by BuckeyeNative

To go along with @MayDaybefore photo. 

Some early Cavs training facility site surveying?

1 hour ago, Agreene2 said:

To go along with @MayDaybefore photo. 

The one thing that popped into my head because of its prominence in these pictures (which are great, by the way!) is the walkway... has there been any word about whether that'll be impacted by potential development along the riverfront? Where it juts out is right where a mixed use building is supposed to sit, which some have speculated in this thread to be a casino/hotel. Not sure how they'd be able to build around that.

10 minutes ago, BuckeyeNative said:

The one thing that popped into my head because of its prominence in these pictures (which are great, by the way!) is the walkway... has there been any word about whether that'll be impacted by potential development along the riverfront? Where it juts out is right where a mixed use building is supposed to sit, which some have speculated in this thread to be a casino/hotel. Not sure how they'd be able to build around that.

Like the rest of Tower City, it’s long overdue for some type of upgrade or refresh.  I used it this past weekend to go to the Greta Van Fleet concert, and it looks frozen in time from the 90’s, dated and dingy.  A refreshed passageway routed through any new development there would be essential for synergies between Bedrock’s properties on both sides of Ontario.

4 minutes ago, JohnSummit said:

Like the rest of Tower City, it’s long overdue for some type of upgrade or refresh.  I used it this past weekend to go to the Greta Van Fleet concert, and it looks frozen in time from the 90’s, dated and dingy.  A refreshed passageway routed through any new development there would be essential for synergies between Bedrock’s properties on both sides of Ontario.

This is a great point. I think that the entire portion of Tower City along Huron could see an overhaul when the development finally begins. For example, isn't the food court supposed to be ripped out and opened up as part of Bedrock's plan to create "the porch" as they describe it for their 'Huron Plaza?' If they're doing work there, I'd hope they refresh the passageway as well.

 

Heck, I hope they give the theater entrance an enhancement if/when it opens up again.

Master plan approved. https://www.cleveland19.com/2023/09/27/city-approves-next-steps-riverfront-redevelopment-plan/

Not a master plan, a revised master development agreement which spells out what is expected of each party, primarily the city and the development team

 

 

Cleveland, Bedrock OK roles in $3.5B project
By Ken Prendergast / September 26, 2023

 

Yesterday, at its regular weekly meeting, Cleveland City Council voted to approve an updated and expanded Master Development Agreement (MDA) between Bedrock Real Estate and the city of Cleveland that serves as a guiding framework for Bedrock's planned $3.5 billion riverfront development project. As one might expect, with such a large, multi-phase development, the project and its legal and fiscal frameworks are very complex. But the new frameworks helps spell out what is expected of each party.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/09/26/cleveland-bedrock-ok-deal-for-3-5b-project/

You know despite the grand scale of this development and our history of underfulfulling l think we might just pull it off. Especially considering the 20 year timeline.

 

Then there is the equally ambitious lakefront/stadium plan. Because of the parties involved and the desire to finally connect to the lakefront it appears that will get done as well.

 

But...can we pull off both of them at the same time? Throw in building a new jail and courthouse too and l wonder if our little community has bitten off more than it can chew. I think something will have to give.

 

^A plan is just a plan without the funding behind it. If there’s money involved, there’s the chance that at least part of each plan comes to fruition.  

4 minutes ago, cadmen said:

You know despite the grand scale of this development and our history of underfulfulling l think we might just pull it off. Especially considering the 20 year timeline.

 

Then there is the equally ambitious lakefront/stadium plan. Because of the parties involved and the desire to finally connect to the lakefront it appears that will get done as well.

 

But...can we pull off both of them at the same time? Throw in building a new jail and courthouse too and l wonder if our little community has bitten off more than it can chew. I think something will have to give.

 

 

I think between the MDA and construction start date of Oct. 2023 on public works for the riverfront, the purchase of the jail site, and the lakefront proposal and committee creation (whatever the heck it's called), I think all of these projects have a strong chance of moving forward in some form or another. I think it's the scale that's the most up-in-the-air. Like, "will we get all 3 phases of the riverfront" is the question now, not "will we get the riverfront at all" for example...

Then again, I'm more optimistic than most I suppose... 

It's not the same, but it makes me think of Reedy Creek.

It's not the same, but it makes me think of Reedy Creek.

I hope we get urban vibes akin to some combination of High Street in Columbus, the mixed use riverfront in Newport, KY, and esplanade in Boston. It’s entirely achievable.


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3 hours ago, cadmen said:

You know despite the grand scale of this development and our history of underfulfulling l think we might just pull it off. Especially considering the 20 year timeline.

 

Then there is the equally ambitious lakefront/stadium plan. Because of the parties involved and the desire to finally connect to the lakefront it appears that will get done as well.

 

But...can we pull off both of them at the same time? Throw in building a new jail and courthouse too and l wonder if our little community has bitten off more than it can chew. I think something will have to give.

 

I agree with this due to the lakefront's most recent (and scaled-down) development plan. As some have alluded to in this thread, it seems like they're putting all of their "residential/retail" eggs into the Bedrock basket while tapping into the lakefront's nature assets, which I think is smart given the progression that the riverfront plan is already making.

 

It's also smart to focus the residential developments around Bedrock's plan if they want Tower City to unlock its full potential as being the central hub of downtown Cleveland. Just my opinion, though.

And we’re off?

That's the work on the bulkheads. Yep, I got a background article for all occasions!

 

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/08/04/bedrock-to-start-riverfront-work/

 

3 hours ago, kevincle said:

And we’re off?

 

 

This is more of a “in your opinion” question. Besides the Cleveland Clinic development and bulkhead work, what part of this project do you think is best candidate to start “soon”?


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That bank of the river is almost continuous parking lots omg. Good riddance 👋🏼

45 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

This is more of a “in your opinion” question. Besides the Cleveland Clinic development and bulkhead work, what part of this project do you think is best candidate to start “soon”?


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Are you asking me? If so, I don't make predictions but I will share predictions by others who are directly involved in projects. Unfortunately I don't have any intel. That's probably due to the tightness/uncertainty of the financial markets. I've been hearing that Bedrock is still nailing down their financing which is why I was very surprised Bedrock didn't seek a TMUD. But there's always New Markets Tax Credits, TIFs, state funds and county loans....

 
Are you asking me? If so, I don't make predictions but I will share predictions by others who are directly involved in projects. Unfortunately I don't have any intel. That's probably due to the tightness/uncertainty of the financial markets. I've been hearing that Bedrock is still nailing down their financing which is why I was very surprised Bedrock didn't seek a TMUD. But there's always New Markets Tax Credits, TIFs, state funds and county loans....

This is more so just a fun prediction that I opened up to anyone on the forum. If you can find some intel to share though that would be great!


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I was under the impression that Bedrock was marketing the sites to other developers.  I didn't think they were necessarily building anything outside of doing the site work for future development.  I haven't heard of other parties proposing something here.  

4 minutes ago, Jenny said:

I was under the impression that Bedrock was marketing the sites to other developers.  I didn't think they were necessarily building anything outside of doing the site work for future development.  I haven't heard of other parties proposing something here.  

If you a referring to the site depicted in above picture, isn't that where the recently announced Cleveland Clinic/Cavs facility is suppose to go?

38 minutes ago, Jenny said:

I was under the impression that Bedrock was marketing the sites to other developers.  I didn't think they were necessarily building anything outside of doing the site work for future development.  I haven't heard of other parties proposing something here.  

 

I had heard that too and reported on it. But since then, all I've heard is what Bedrock is proposing to do -- infrastructure/site prep and phase one.

I notice that the Cleveland Clinic facility is on the this Fridays Planning Commission agenda for conceptual review.  Does anybody know if there are any pretty pictures floating around the internet at this point?  Since it is conceptual I wonder if they are only going to present a site plan without renderings.

Edited October 17, 20231 yr by Htsguy

17 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I notice that the Cleveland Clinic facility is on the this Fridays Planning Commission agenda for conceptual review.  Does anybody know if there are any pretty pictures floating around the internet at this point?  Since it is conceptual I wonder if they are only going to present a site plan without renderings.

 

Not yet. The agenda for this week's meeting was just emailed out this morning to Planning Commissioners and media. The link to the presentations has yet to be sent out. Michael B probably has a lot on his plate this week. He usually sends out this stuff on Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

If you're looking for texture, you're going to be disappointed....

 

 

23 hours ago, KJP said:

If you're looking for texture, you're going to be disappointed....

 

 

 

For as much as it could be easy / rote to complain about the lack of retail etc. etc., this massing feels fine to me. I actually like the idea of the overhang and, more importantly, the boardwalk. Could be a great place for vendors to set up, creative lighting, art, etc.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

 

Edited October 19, 20231 yr by ASP1984

Crane on site this am.

Looking forward to seeing how they present this.  Hopefully lots of glass along the river side.

7 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Looking forward to seeing how they present this.  Hopefully lots of glass along the river side.

Yeah I can pretty much guarantee with a location like this they’re taking a holistic approach to healthcare.  Plus a lot of the Clinic’s more recent builds have glass curtain walls.

I am also curious about phasing.  If this is the only thing built for a while the pedestrian experience/connection to the facility is not going to be great.  I could see most people driving to it rather than walking early on.

It's hard not to think that this, and it moving quickly, could be the biggest momentum boosting event for Cleveland development in years.

I wasn't expecting anything like a boardwalk through there.  Would it really be a high foot traffic area?  No complaints about that feature, of course.  Any public access along the river is very welcome. 

I like that this project will set the table for the rest of the development.  And this project, in this location, doesn't really need foot traffic or retail, so it's a perfect project to start with.

8 hours ago, KJP said:

If you're looking for texture, you're going to be disappointed....

 

 

...I hate it... On one hand I'm glad to see something get built, but it's hard to be excited by a whole first floor of parking on such a fascinating parcel. I'm hoping the planning commission pushes back on this a bit. Potentially push for moving parking to the other side of the road, and maybe some public facing amenities or uses on the boardwalk. 

 

For all the talk about this being publicly accessible, this massing does not suggest that at all. 

7 minutes ago, Ethan said:

...I hate it... On one hand I'm glad to see something get built, but it's hard to be excited by a whole first floor of parking on such a fascinating parcel. I'm hoping the planning commission pushes back on this a bit. Potentially push for moving parking to the other side of the road, and maybe some public facing amenities or uses on the boardwalk. 

 

For all the talk about this being publicly accessible, this massing does not suggest that at all. 

Initially, while it’s hard to tell at thispoint, I’m sure the first floor parking will be well concealed. Pedestal parking is certainly not a rare architectural device. Just go to Chicago and check it out. Secondly, there will be plenty of space on the built out Project for public amenities. This site is hardly the heart of the development. Although I do believe the kayak launch is somewhere near this building. 

Downtown finally gets its beach! 😉

6 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Initially, while it’s hard to tell at thispoint, I’m sure the first floor parking will be well concealed. Pedestal parking is certainly not a rare architectural device. Just go to Chicago and check it out. Secondly, there will be plenty of space on the built out Project for public amenities. This site is hardly the heart of the development. Although I do believe the kayak launch is somewhere near this building. 

I don't mind pedestal parking, in general, or for this project, but I wish it didn't go all the way up to the boardwalk as it appears to here. 

 

Though, on second look, maybe it doesn't...

 

 

I'm not sure what those spaces are, I'm guessing utility or something useful but boring, they look pretty small, but if those are retail or something then I'm basically fine with it. 

 

What I'd like is to see is some kind of pedestrian frontage here, move some parking to the other side of the road if they feel like they need to do it. Let's prioritize the boardwalk. My 2¢. 

😄 'That world-famous NBA stars, their celebrity agents, plus-ones, families, other attached folk, (and their myriad security concerns) might park somewhere besides a secure self-contained facility.

 

Below is a list of NBA players who walk to work

1.

2.

3.

 

Edited October 19, 20231 yr by ExPatClevGuy

Here’s the full presentation:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/enwn6tzytpoqyzg/AACJWT6K-2NeNEOejUTSfk8Ea/Downtown Flats Design Review?dl=0&preview=Cuyahoga+Riverfront+Master+Plan+-+Cleveland+Clinic+Global+Peak+Performance+Center.pdf&subfolder_nav_tracking=1