Columbus got three (3) projects approved this round. Three.

you guys are going crazy

9 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

you guys are going crazy

 

It's becoming a parody now.

2 hours ago, Willo said:

It seems C-bus and Cinci lawmakers join forces again as they have for decades while NEO gets peanuts.

 

I need to get up to Cleveland and check out what those dispensaries are selling.

Does the way these decisions are being made come down to the lack of strong leadership/lobbying from Cleveland's government officials?

 

3 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

 

It's becoming a parody now.

Agreed. Cleveland and NEO, as was pointed out by one sane person earlier, has traditionally done pretty well with the TMUD. One year where Cleveland doesn’t do so well and all the conspiracy nutjobs come out of the woodwork claiming Cincy and Columbus are forming a cabal. Lol. The insecurity and whining has reached fever pitch. 

 

Bedrock Riverfront Wins Greater Cleveland’s only TMUD
By Ken Prendergast / January 27, 2025

 

It seems $100 million doesn’t go as far as it used to. At least it didn’t today when the Ohio Tax Credit Authority awarded $100 million in Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credits to just nine projects statewide. Northeast Ohio won two — Greater Cleveland got just one of those. And that was the last of four rounds of TMUDs authorized by the Ohio General Assembly unless some previous awards aren’t used and are made available.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/27/bedrock-riverfront-wins-greater-clevelands-only-tmud/

How many of these have Northeast Ohio won and are still not getting used? The Centennial if I remember correctly got the max amount and it is nowhere close to getting started.

hmm, good news is this award for the mixed use rock and roll land ‘entertainment complex/hotel’ is actually kinda the step-son of the long promised second casino, so i admire gilbert for fulfilling that (moral) obligation.

 

otoh if this is what it takes to get bedrock’s vision for the riverfront built out its going to be a long, long road.

8 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

I need to get up to Cleveland and check out what those dispensaries are selling.

 

agreed. no excuses. ya gotta actually step up to the plate with something reasonable and take a swing to have a chance at an award. or get a better batter (project). 😂

 

if anything its the other way around and the ohio tmud awards have seemed generous as there have been a few unfulfilled awards like centennial.

 

i dk maybe i’m wrong, but as seen from the peanut gallery anyway.

The Polaris project is the one that bothers me of the bunch. Yes, it technically qualifies, but it doesn't seem like the project needed the funding and that $7 million could have been put to much better used in Cleveland or Cincy. To me, at least, it doesn't really meet the "Transformational" part of the TMUD program like other projects would have.

 

I don't think there's some conspiracy between the other cities to screw over NEO, but state development funding always seems to favor Columbus over any other market. I remember a stat from a while back that I think 85% of them went to Greater Columbus, not to mention ODOT rejecting funding for GCRTA to purchase new railcars because the scoring rubric was tilted away from rail. It's overblown a bit, sure, but it's understandable why the Cleveland region feels like the state consistently ignores it.

7 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

Agreed. Cleveland and NEO, as was pointed out by one sane person earlier, has traditionally done pretty well with the TMUD. One year where Cleveland doesn’t do so well and all the conspiracy nutjobs come out of the woodwork claiming Cincy and Columbus are forming a cabal. Lol. The insecurity and whining has reached fever pitch. 

I pulled all 4 reports from 2022 - 2025, and calculated the awards for Cuyahoga, Hamilton and Franklin counties and came up with the following totals:

 

2022 Awards:

$48,465,008 - Cuyahoga

$6,416,144 - Hamilton

$28,131,887 - Franklin

 

2023 Awards:

$21,089,150 - Cuyahoga

$12,713,348 - Hamilton

$40,300,000 - Franklin

 

2024 Awards:

$11,950,000 - Cuyahoga

$48,569,000 - Hamilton

$3,500,000 - Franklin

 

2025 Awards:

$9,112,011 - Cuyahoga

$26,000,000 - Hamilton

$37,500,000 - Franklin

 

Current TOTALS:

$90,713,169 - Cuyahoga

$93,698,492 - Hamilton

$109,431,887 - Franklin

 

Prior to 2025 totals:

$81,601,218 - Cuyahoga

$67,698,492 - Hamilton

$71,931,887 - Franklin

 

They are not going to distribute the same even amount to each 3-C cities each year.  Certain years are higher than others depending on your city.  Prior to these most recent announcements, Cuyahoga had the higher amount.  Next year Cuyahoga could score the larger "prize" while Hamilton and Franklin gets a lower amount.  Looks like Cuyahoga took the most in the first 2 years.  Just look at the measly $3.5M Franklin got in 2024.

 

There are a large amount of other "NEO" prizes that I didn't include because they aren't in Cuyahoga, but the region as a whole has received quite a bit when you dig through the reports.

 

 

I think the phasing of the Riverfront project hurt its case. Yes the building is well over 350,000 square feet but look at the description of the project compared to capitol square in Columbus. In theory they are very similar developments and the overall impact pertaining to jobs and public access is similar. The difference comes with how they look to be have pitched, the Capitol Square development talks about HOW it is transformative while the description for the Riverfront project says it'll connect the public to the Riverfront and build on parking lots. 

 

Reading the descriptions I can see how we got $9 Million and they got $33 Million

25 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I think the phasing of the Riverfront project hurt its case. Yes the building is well over 350,000 square feet but look at the description of the project compared to capitol square in Columbus. In theory they are very similar developments and the overall impact pertaining to jobs and public access is similar. The difference comes with how they look to be have pitched, the Capitol Square development talks about HOW it is transformative while the description for the Riverfront project says it'll connect the public to the Riverfront and build on parking lots. 

 

Reading the descriptions I can see how we got $9 Million and they got $33 Million

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. This award is only for phase 1 so I'll give the state the benefit of the doubt that since the current status of the riverfront isn't as concrete and far along through commish as other state projects they went with a lower-risk award. Maybe the latter phases of the project can get a more equitable share once shovels are in the ground and Bedrock has something to show for their efforts.

18 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. This award is only for phase 1 so I'll give the state the benefit of the doubt that since the current status of the riverfront isn't as concrete and far along through commish as other state projects they went with a lower-risk award. Maybe the latter phases of the project can get a more equitable share once shovels are in the ground and Bedrock has something to show for their efforts.

I may be wrong but isn't this the last round under the program unless it is re-authorized by the legislature, never a sure thing or a quick process.

1 hour ago, Gnoraa said:

 Looks like Cuyahoga took the most in the first 2 years.  Just look at the measly $3.5M Franklin got in 2024.

But that includes the huge award for Centennial which has not yet been fulfilled.  Maybe that's why they have not been so generous with Cleveland of late.

the first year cle awarding is a little unfair to use in the $$$ mix because it was cle that pushed for developing the tmud process and obviously the area had initial projects lined up all ready to go.

4 hours ago, Gnoraa said:

I pulled all 4 reports from 2022 - 2025, and calculated the awards for Cuyahoga, Hamilton and Franklin counties and came up with the following totals:

 

2022 Awards:

$48,465,008 - Cuyahoga

$6,416,144 - Hamilton

$28,131,887 - Franklin

 

2023 Awards:

$21,089,150 - Cuyahoga

$12,713,348 - Hamilton

$40,300,000 - Franklin

 

2024 Awards:

$11,950,000 - Cuyahoga

$48,569,000 - Hamilton

$3,500,000 - Franklin

 

2025 Awards:

$9,112,011 - Cuyahoga

$26,000,000 - Hamilton

$37,500,000 - Franklin

 

Current TOTALS:

$90,713,169 - Cuyahoga

$93,698,492 - Hamilton

$109,431,887 - Franklin

 

Prior to 2025 totals:

$81,601,218 - Cuyahoga

$67,698,492 - Hamilton

$71,931,887 - Franklin

 

They are not going to distribute the same even amount to each 3-C cities each year.  Certain years are higher than others depending on your city.  Prior to these most recent announcements, Cuyahoga had the higher amount.  Next year Cuyahoga could score the larger "prize" while Hamilton and Franklin gets a lower amount.  Looks like Cuyahoga took the most in the first 2 years.  Just look at the measly $3.5M Franklin got in 2024.

 

There are a large amount of other "NEO" prizes that I didn't include because they aren't in Cuyahoga, but the region as a whole has received quite a bit when you dig through the reports.

 

Thanks for putting this together. I don't buy into the city preference conspiracy quite as much, but personally I would've liked to see fewer credits going to suburban projects and more of the money going to urban core developments in general (in any of the qualified cities). I don't have anything against suburban mixed-use, but there are some unique challenges that urban developments face that these credits can help overcome.

 

Genuinely happy for the major projects going forward in Cincy and Cbus. Hope to visit sometime and grab some more pics for the forum.

I feel like some of the bad vibes over the Cleveland awards are because we had multiple projects, ahem, Bridgeworks, which seemed like exactly the kind of project that this program was designed for.  In that project's case, it got rejected multiple times for unclear reasons, which led to delays that led to the project being majorly downscaled in a way that has been very unpopular here on the forums (while I think people are trashing the current designs a little too much, it's hard to deny that they weren't nearly as nice as the previous iterations that would've been built if it had gotten the TMUD).  So, there's a little frustration that we've had projects that were practically shovel-ready if they'd gotten the funding, and either didn't happen or were significantly diminished.

I moved my response to the Random Developments thread to keep this thread focused on Bedrock's project/plans

 

 

🚨FINAL APPROVAL 🚨

 

 

While I hope there are shiny new renderings I wouldn't be surprised if it's just finalizing the scope and stages tbh but we'll see

 

10 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

🚨FINAL APPROVAL 🚨

 

 

While I hope there are shiny new renderings I wouldn't be surprised if it's just finalizing the scope and stages tbh but we'll see

 

I doubt the presentation will be much different from the schematic.  I am hoping for at least a few off the cuff comments in relation to possibly breaking ground on the next phase as, since schematic, there has been some encouraging progress, as Bedrock did win a partial TMUD and the important TIF amendments Bedrock and the administration are seeking passed in Council Planning Committee today, and will probably be before Finance and maybe full council next week.  Fingers crossed we get a reveal of the next phase in the next few months.

16 hours ago, Geowizical said:

🚨FINAL APPROVAL 🚨

 

 

While I hope there are shiny new renderings I wouldn't be surprised if it's just finalizing the scope and stages tbh but we'll see

 

@Geowizical when is this? And is it available to stream on youtube?

9 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

@Geowizical when is this? And is it available to stream on youtube?

Friday at 9:00 AM, and yes!

https://www.youtube.com/@ClevelandPlanningCommission

 

You can find Landmarks Commission videos on the same channel as well

59 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Friday at 9:00 AM, and yes!

https://www.youtube.com/@ClevelandPlanningCommission

 

You can find Landmarks Commission videos on the same channel as well

Don't forget Board of Zoning Appeals.  I know, too much time on my hands.😉

I can't watch this morning, but the CPC slides are posted:

https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/drcagenda/2025/PDF/slides/02072025 CPC Presentation.pdf

 

Love to see this note about the comments they've received (I'm sure UO was a big part of this):

Just before the vote Lillian Kuri tried to get Bedrock to spill the beans on a potential Phase 1B start date and the Bedrock rep did not bite.

8 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Just before the vote Lillian Kuri tried to get Bedrock to spill the beans on a potential Phase 1B start date and the Bedrock rep did not bite.

Haha yeah I would've done the same thing 🤗

 

It was heartening to hear though that they're still advancing the memorial loop, they'll be back soon regarding roadway infrastructure and more public realm improvements around the Cavs facility, and also that the Bedrock team is working in conjunction with Merritt Chase on coordinating connections with Canal Basin Park. We love to see good coordination (common sense tbh)

I'm sure most of those public comments about CVSR were from UO'ers. Was that it discussed at all during the presentation? 

5 minutes ago, Mendo said:

I'm sure most of those public comments about CVSR were from UO'ers. Was that it discussed at all during the presentation? 

 

It was - but it was mostly an acknowledgement that "half of our comments mention CVSR". City planning staff brought it up in their summary - my assumption from the manner in which it was brought up was that it's something they're still trying to pursue but they didn't mention any detailed action steps to do so.

3 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

 

It was - but it was mostly an acknowledgement that "half of our comments mention CVSR". City planning staff brought it up in their summary - my assumption from the manner in which it was brought up was that it's something they're still trying to pursue but they didn't mention any detailed action steps to do so.

 

Thanks. I don't know how flexible these development agreements are, but I assume the CVSR location would be agreed upon before final approval of the master plan. The renderings show it still in no-man's land. It would also impact the Eagle Ave bridge construction which has to be in engineering at this point. Seems there is too much headwind for anybody wishing it will return near Tower City. 

40 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

Thanks. I don't know how flexible these development agreements are, but I assume the CVSR location would be agreed upon before final approval of the master plan. The renderings show it still in no-man's land. It would also impact the Eagle Ave bridge construction which has to be in engineering at this point. Seems there is too much headwind for anybody wishing it will return near Tower City. 

Ya they specifically mentioned the W3rd station in the meeting, not Tower City.  But I understand that Bedrock probably just doesn't want to be responsible for the huge investment to get trains into TC from the South Flats.  CVSR and other parties would have to finance that, and I'm not sure they have the money.  Maybe you could get Dan Gilbert, LeBron(weekend Akron to Cavs/Guardians game special trains?), The Cleveland Foundation, and others to help cover some of those costs along with creating a new Erie Canal/CVNP museum/visitors center/gift shop in Tower City.  There are enough vacant storefronts you could build multiple replicas of old canal boats.  Taking the WFL to see the Mather and Cod after going to an Erie Canal Museum and riding the CVSR could be a cool bundled ticket tourist activity.  Or a Rock Hall/CVSR/Pro Football HOF bundle if CVSR goes back down to Canton.  I would also love a large DC Comics/Superman museum in Tower City, to my knowledge one doesn't currently exist outside of the small Superman collection in the library.  It would really fit with the architecture of the old shops, but now I'm getting too off topic.

 

I know Canal Rd will be moving to the current rail ROW, is there any way that CVSR, or any other future trains, could be rerouted to go into TC using the current Canal Rd ROW? 

Edited February 7Feb 7 by PlanCleveland
typo

1 hour ago, PlanCleveland said:

Ya they specifically mentioned the W3rd station in the meeting, not Tower City.  But I understand that Bedrock probably just doesn't want to be responsible for the huge investment to get trains into TC from the South Flats.  CVSR and other parties would have to finance that, and I'm not sure they have the money.  Maybe you could get Dan Gilbert, LeBron(weekend Akron to Cavs/Guardians game special trains?), The Cleveland Foundation, and others to help cover some of those costs along with creating a new Erie Canal/CVNP museum/visitors center/gift shop in Tower City.  There are enough vacant storefronts you could build multiple replicas of old canal boats.  Taking the WFL to see the Mather and Cod after going to an Erie Canal Museum and riding the CVSR could be a cool bundled ticket tourist activity.  Or a Rock Hall/CVSR/Pro Football HOF bundle if CVSR goes back down to Canton.  I would also love a large DC Comics/Superman museum in Tower City, to my knowledge one doesn't currently exist outside of the small Superman collection in the library.  It would really fit with the architecture of the old shops, but now I'm getting too off topic.

 

I know Canal Rd will be moving to the current rail ROW, is there any way that CVSR, or any other future trains, could be rerouted to go into TC using the current Canal Rd ROW? 

Maybe, but the current Canal Rd ROW isn't getting vacated, it's becoming a service road. Bedrock isn't going to give up their service road, so the two would have to find a way to coexist. Probably possible, but I understand why they don't want to deal with that. 

 

I've previously proposed the old Cleveland Thermal plant as a terminus. All else being equal, it's probably the third best location for the station, but it seems like it might be easier to get Bedrock to accept. A bit more feasible than Tower City or B&O, and still pretty close to the heart of Downtown. The impact on Bedrock's plans would be comparatively minor, but the Eagle Ave bridge would still need to accommodate the train passage underneath. 

1 hour ago, PlanCleveland said:

 

I know Canal Rd will be moving to the current rail ROW, is there any way that CVSR, or any other future trains, could be rerouted to go into TC using the current Canal Rd ROW? 

 

 

Yes, but it requires a 2 percent grade which CVSR said it doesn't like. If CVSR/CVNRA bought used self-propelled diesel rail cars, like the ones Ottawa's O-train is/was selling, they could tackle a 2 percent grade easily.

 

Meanwhile Bedrock has no idea how to return foot traffic and tenants back to Tower City, a former railroad station. A thought seems to be escaping them...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, PlanCleveland said:

Ya they specifically mentioned the W3rd station in the meeting, not Tower City.  But I understand that Bedrock probably just doesn't want to be responsible for the huge investment to get trains into TC from the South Flats.  CVSR and other parties would have to finance that, and I'm not sure they have the money.  Maybe you could get Dan Gilbert, LeBron(weekend Akron to Cavs/Guardians game special trains?), The Cleveland Foundation, and others to help cover some of those costs along with creating a new Erie Canal/CVNP museum/visitors center/gift shop in Tower City.  There are enough vacant storefronts you could build multiple replicas of old canal boats.  Taking the WFL to see the Mather and Cod after going to an Erie Canal Museum and riding the CVSR could be a cool bundled ticket tourist activity.  Or a Rock Hall/CVSR/Pro Football HOF bundle if CVSR goes back down to Canton.  I would also love a large DC Comics/Superman museum in Tower City, to my knowledge one doesn't currently exist outside of the small Superman collection in the library.  It would really fit with the architecture of the old shops, but now I'm getting too off topic.

 

I know Canal Rd will be moving to the current rail ROW, is there any way that CVSR, or any other future trains, could be rerouted to go into TC using the current Canal Rd ROW? 

CVSR on game days could be like the Metro North on Yankee game days. 

 

Commission OKs Bedrock’s riverfront masterplan
By Ken Prendergast / February 7, 2025

 

A design review panel of Cleveland’s Planning Commission today approved Bedrock’s final masterplan for its multi-phase, $3.5 billion riverfront development. But while the vote was unanimous, commission members asked some pointed questions about how all of its components would successfully come together.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/02/07/commission-oks-bedrocks-riverfront-masterplan/

I think what we heard in that meeting is that there isn’t really a strategy for the old B&O Railroad station nor is there one for Tower City. All these plans look great on paper but what it really is, is private companies dictating public investment. 

18 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Commission OKs Bedrock’s riverfront masterplan
By Ken Prendergast / February 7, 2025

 

A design review panel of Cleveland’s Planning Commission today approved Bedrock’s final masterplan for its multi-phase, $3.5 billion riverfront development. But while the vote was unanimous, commission members asked some pointed questions about how all of its components would successfully come together.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/02/07/commission-oks-bedrocks-riverfront-masterplan/

So much good news in Ken's story such as these nuggets: 

 

The city is also considering advancing to Bedrock proceeds of a $1 billion tax-increment financing agreement to move the infrastructure work forward more quickly so development can follow sooner.  and 

 

Cullen Meves, an associate landscape architect and planner at MKSK, said that infrastructure is a foundational key to development of the riverfront plan. That includes rehabilitation of the riverfront bulkheads, with the first installations now complete. She said they are now working with the city restoring Eagle Avenue to link to the Gateway District and connect Ontario and West 3rd street.

 

So encouraging.  We were worried that infrastructure for the entire neighborhood would be done piecemeal by phase leaving room for more future delays.  Once all bulkheads and roads are in place, and Phase 1 and 1A are either complete or underway, other partners may jump in to join the neighborhood.  Programming the landmark B&O site should be easier once the infrastructure is complete so the connectivity is obvious to developers and the public.

With good momentum regarding the TC/Bedrock development I never hear anyone mention any plans for the Thermal energy plant. It is never addressed in any of the articles or presentations. To make that whole area work it is going to have to be demolished or take the very long steps to redevelop it which will involve tax credits, brownfield grants. structural assessments etc. I am sure behind the scenes Bedrock must be looking into it.  The last thing I could find was from 2015 when the thermal plant was purchased and demolition was in the works. 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2015/08/canadians_buy_cleveland_therma.html

Great drone video of all the riverfront projects from Cleveland.com:

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2025/02/how-cleveland-uses-its-5-miles-of-riverfront-property-drone-footage.html

The TIF amendments passed city council Finance Committee today and will definitely pass full council tonight.  There was one no vote by an admittedly very confused council person.  Luckily she will not be around much longer to impede development in her ward and city wide.

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

The TIF amendments passed city council Finance Committee today and will definitely pass full council tonight.  There was one no vote by an admittedly very confused council person.  Luckily she will not be around much longer to impede development in her ward and city wide.

Now I need the details.

On 2/7/2025 at 9:39 AM, acd said:

I can't watch this morning, but the CPC slides are posted:

https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/drcagenda/2025/PDF/slides/02072025 CPC Presentation.pdf

 

Love to see this note about the comments they've received (I'm sure UO was a big part of this):

 

On 2/7/2025 at 10:56 AM, Mendo said:

I'm sure most of those public comments about CVSR were from UO'ers. Was that it discussed at all during the presentation? 

We did a big call to action for AAO northeast Ohio members to submit comments at the end of the comment period, in addition to posting it here - I’d like to think that helped!

3 hours ago, Htsguy said:

The TIF amendments passed city council Finance Committee today and will definitely pass full council tonight.  There was one no vote by an admittedly very confused council person.  Luckily she will not be around much longer to impede development in her ward and city wide.

Spencer presumably?

4 minutes ago, Henke said:

Spencer presumably?

👌

 

Closest I could get without arousing suspicion (03/01). Two clear elevator shafts rising. Also, does it make sense for this building to have its own thread? Anywho…

 

2 hours ago, Geowizical said:

Closest I could get without arousing suspicion (03/01). Two clear elevator shafts rising. Also, does it make sense for this building to have its own thread? Anywho…

 

Yes but someone has to do it who knows how to do it

3 hours ago, Geowizical said:

Closest I could get without arousing suspicion (03/01). Two clear elevator shafts rising. Also, does it make sense for this building to have its own thread? Anywho…

 

 

Should each building in Bedrock's riverfront scope have its own thread? We don't have threads for individual buildings in Circle Square or at Cleveland Clinic?

12 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Should each building in Bedrock's riverfront scope have its own thread? We don't have threads for individual buildings in Circle Square or at Cleveland Clinic?

Very true. It was more a suggestion since this is somewhat of a Cavs/Clinic-specific project if felt kind of removed from the rest, but I could see why not