March 21Mar 21 What is the most realistic route into Tower City without strong support from Bedrock? Route 4A seems the most straightforward, but I remember there was issue of ROW or the elevation change(?).
March 21Mar 21 Here is the drop in ridership (from the 2023 article Ken linked to in his post). Tower city went from 2.2 million riders in 2018 to less than a half million in 2022. Even if we get TOD around RTA, Amtrak, and Brightline - are we really in a position to get back to 2.2 million riders annually? And is that high water mark of ridership enough to support retail in Tower City? I recall it being pretty empty already in 2018. Ideastream was asking in 2018 “Can the Mall at Tower City Be Saved“ FYE, McDonalds and Hard Rock all left by 2018. The (entirely too pessimistic) Scene called TC the worst of cleveland in 2019 From a transit ridership and foot traffic perspective, these were the good times! Today there’s more competition in the form of new malls like Pinecrest and Van Aken, less foot traffic, and fewer events (CIFF). I love the transit ideas, but I can see how Bedrock might be skeptical given how much ground has to be regained.
March 21Mar 21 16 minutes ago, Henke said: Here is the drop in ridership (from the 2023 article Ken linked to in his post). Tower city went from 2.2 million riders in 2018 to less than a half million in 2022. Even if we get TOD around RTA, Amtrak, and Brightline - are we really in a position to get back to 2.2 million riders annually? And is that high water mark of ridership enough to support retail in Tower City? I recall it being pretty empty already in 2018. Ideastream was asking in 2018 “Can the Mall at Tower City Be Saved“ FYE, McDonalds and Hard Rock all left by 2018. The (entirely too pessimistic) Scene called TC the worst of cleveland in 2019 From a transit ridership and foot traffic perspective, these were the good times! Today there’s more competition in the form of new malls like Pinecrest and Van Aken, less foot traffic, and fewer events (CIFF). I love the transit ideas, but I can see how Bedrock might be skeptical given how much ground has to be regained. Build a development that is worth traveling to and people will come. If Tower City was already dead in 2018, but they still saw 2,250,542 riders than that shows that people are willing to ride. Now you have to ask, is it really a Tower City issue or have people just lost faith in GCRTA rapid transit because it's not like Tower City was the only station to plummet. Ohio City West-25th, arguably the station with the most to offer as far as surrounding amenities, dropped by 112,049 riders compared to 2018. Also if Tower City is an Amtrak Mini-Hub you'd have an influx of people coming in from Chicago, New York etc. so that would all just be a net gain in foot traffic since Amtrak doesn't serve Tower City right now.
March 21Mar 21 2 hours ago, Dino said: Good commentary, good read. If I were to critique the editorial though, I'd say it seemed a bit harsh and pessimistic. "It was frustrating to hear that Bedrock didn’t have a stronger answer on how to reactivate Tower City because, to me, the answer was at best not considered and at worst outright rejected. And I wasn’t the only one frustrated." The factors that have led to Tower City's struggles (suburban sprawl, auto dependency, de-population) have been decades in the making. Frustration that Bedrock has not yet figured out how to reverse these trends in the 10 years (someone can fact check that, I got that from a different article) they have owned Tower City, seems a little unfair. Additionally, in the ten years they have owned it, there was Covid, the rise of work from home, and the continued growth of online shopping. Most of this wreaked havoc across the entire real estate world. Despite all of this they have acquired dozens of acres of surrounding riverfront land, created a 30-year master plan, spearheaded the creation of TIF district to fund it all, started construction on the river bulkheads, started construction on Phase 1 (Cavs Facility), announced and secured a TMUD for Phase 2. I would argue that in ten years, this is incredible progress towards the long term revitalization of Tower City. I think it's fair to highlight areas where Bedrock could be doing better, but in my opinion, frustration directed only at Bedrock is misguided. https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/19/csx-makes-cvsr-downtown-extension-infeasible/ CSX is one of the biggest obstacles to the CVSR Tower City extension. Does Bedrock really have the power to broker deals between two railroad lines. NOACA, City, County, Feds, maybe they could intervene? GCRTA I loved that the commentary highlighted their role, and lack there of, in all of this. But the majority of the frustration should be on them, not Bedrock, for not doing more to bolster TOD around their stations. Amtrak/Brightline Sure, it would be good if Bedrock was contacting them, I suppose. But is Amtrak and Brightline just sitting by the phone, waiting by the phone for a call? They must be studying routes and locations; the phone works both ways. Generally, I like that this article highlighted how enough isn't being done to support and grow one of Cleveland's greatest assets. However, I think it places too much of the responsibility on Bedrock, it discounts the level of investments that they are undertaking, and it doesn't do enough to acknowledge that something like this can't be accomplished by Bedrock alone. 2 hours ago, Foraker said: There's no doubt that Bedrock is starting from a rough place and has done a lot in the past decade, with more (hopefully) to come. But you're missing what I thought was @KJP's main point -- the IDEA of making Tower City a rail hub again needs a Sponsor, a Leader, to champion that cause. Bedrock is uniquely positioned to benefit from making that happen, they should be rallying the city and county and RTA to advocate (to Ohio government, Congress, Amtrak, Brightline) for that to happen. Who better to lead than the party with the most to gain (outside of the Cleveland region generally), and why aren't they pushing for it? I think these are both fair comments. While I agree that an external sponsor of making tower city a true rail hub again would do wonders for Tower City and Cleveland as a whole, I also agree that laying the blame at the foot of the developer that has most strongly bet on the future of downtown Cleveland just isn't fair. As others have noted, if the city itself isn't willing to strongly embrace the concept of Tower City returning to its roots as a rail hub, it's not reasonable to expect an external actor to do so on its behalf. Sure, Bedrock owns Tower City, but they aren't going to do much of anything with regards to rail expansion without heavy involvement of the City and other governmental agencies. If the City doesn't want it to happen, it won't, and realistically, if the City is ambivalent about it (which I think it is), it's not going to happen either. To be sure Bedrock deserves some blame for not seeing the vision, and some actions that seem to block a CVSR extension, but I'd argue the principle actor at fault here is still the City. If the City wants to extend CVSR they need to take the lead. Study and determine a preferred right of way, then don't allow any building that will jeopardize that right of way. If a developer (even Bedrock) wants to obstruct that right of way, don't allow it. The City (and Bedrock) still probably have a chance here, as at least one potential right of way for CVSR runs under the Eagle ave extension. Unless a different route is determined to be preferable the City should ensure this bridge is conducted in such a way so as to leave room for a rail right of way underneath it. Will Bedrock object? Maybe, but it's ultimately the City's job to stand up for its own interest, not the developer. If Bedrock objects the City should tell them to come up with an alternative routing that brings CVSR closer to downtown than their preferred location. Bedrock's not a charitable organization, it will stand up for what it sees as its own interest. I think they are wrong when it comes to CVSR and they might as well reach out to Brightline, and they would benefit from their involvement as Ken suggests. But ultimately the City has the primary responsibility to stand up for Cleveland's best interest, and to the extent they aren't doing that they should bare primary responsibility.
March 21Mar 21 1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said: Build a development that is worth traveling to and people will come. If Tower City was already dead in 2018, but they still saw 2,250,542 riders than that shows that people are willing to ride. Now you have to ask, is it really a Tower City issue or have people just lost faith in GCRTA rapid transit because it's not like Tower City was the only station to plummet. Ohio City West-25th, arguably the station with the most to offer as far as surrounding amenities, dropped by 112,049 riders compared to 2018. Also if Tower City is an Amtrak Mini-Hub you'd have an influx of people coming in from Chicago, New York etc. so that would all just be a net gain in foot traffic since Amtrak doesn't serve Tower City right now. Build it and they will come… kind of true, but it didn’t save TC when it was in its heyday in the 90s. This article from 2022 suggests an expanded Amtrak hub could serve up to 1 million passengers. That would be awesome, but it is a huuuuge gap from where we are. Right now Cleveland has under 50,000 riders annually. And it would mean Cleveland alone is making up 3% of Amtrak’s 2024 rides (32.8 million). To better identify a target ridership number, I found this case study on the opening of Tower City which says: “The grand opening of the retail mall and passenger station enticed over 2 million people to visit the center during the first weekend. Many stores broke all records for opening-day sales. Rail transit ridership rose by 30 percent following the opening of the arcade, to an average of 30,000 passengers per day. With bus ridership of 90,000, over 120,000 people are brought to the complex each day.” 30,000 per day in rail traffic is nearly 11 million passengers. Adding in that bus traffic, this study is claiming TC saw nearly 44 million people annually just from transit. That’s the number of visitors it took to make the place successful - excluding anyone who visited on foot or by car. To put that into context, Crocker Park does about 20 million visits annually. I’m all in for additional transit at TC, but it’s not a silver bullet, and the investment might not add up at all.
March 21Mar 21 It’d be nice if Bedrock laid out a more specific vision for Tower City itself, not just in relation to the riverfront development. Do we know what type of retailers, restaurants, etc. they’re looking for? In my opinion, the best use for Tower City would be a blend of services tailoring to downtown residents and tourist attractions that make Tower City itself a destination, not just a waypoint station for people passing through/coming to work downtown. We live in Kansas City now, and the Union Station here has a variety of exhibits that are always open to the public. They include a science center + planetarium, multiple theaters, and rotating exhibits (Disney is here currently). Why can’t Tower City do that and more?
March 21Mar 21 2 minutes ago, BuckeyeNative said: It’d be nice if Bedrock laid out a more specific vision for Tower City itself, not just in relation to the riverfront development. Do we know what type of retailers, restaurants, etc. they’re looking for? In my opinion, the best use for Tower City would be a blend of services tailoring to downtown residents and tourist attractions that make Tower City itself a destination, not just a waypoint station for people passing through/coming to work downtown. We live in Kansas City now, and the Union Station here has a variety of exhibits that are always open to the public. They include a science center + planetarium, multiple theaters, and rotating exhibits (Disney is here currently). Why can’t Tower City do that and more? Good point, and it makes me wonder why Bedrock selected the location for their "Rock & Roll Land" attraction and hotel so far to the east of the property. Seems like putting it closer to the center of the property near the existing Avenue concourse would spin off activity and foot traffic to the mall.
March 21Mar 21 10 minutes ago, JohnSummit said: Good point, and it makes me wonder why Bedrock selected the location for their "Rock & Roll Land" attraction and hotel so far to the east of the property. Seems like putting it closer to the center of the property near the existing Avenue concourse would spin off activity and foot traffic to the mall. I would assume that they wanted it to be halfway between Tower City and Rocket Arena. Right now the walk from Rocket Arena to the W. Huron entrance of Tower City consists of a busy six-lane road with a steep drop-off on the one side and a wall of imposing concrete on the other. It is currently incredibly unlikely for a pedestrian visitor at Rocket Arena to aimlessly wander over to Tower City. The street-level activity draws one toward E. 4 or Huron Rd. E instead. By building some attractions between Tower City and Rocket Arena, you are making Tower City and Rocket Arena actually feel sort of connected to each other.
March 21Mar 21 Just remember guys...THIS is under construction. How cool is that? It will take decades to complete. It will change and evolve. It won't be perfect. But we could be looking at construction photos of this project on this blog well into 2045! And according to this rendering, by 2045, people will be kayaking at night in light up boats! Heck yeah! It's too soon to be Monday morning quarterbacking this thing. We're still in the first quarter!
March 21Mar 21 28 minutes ago, Dino said: Just remember guys...THIS is under construction. How cool is that? It will take decades to complete. It will change and evolve. It won't be perfect. But we could be looking at construction photos of this project on this blog well into 2045! And according to this rendering, by 2045, people will be kayaking at night in light up boats! Heck yeah! It's too soon to be Monday morning quarterbacking this thing. We're still in the first quarter! Geez: none of us will be around in 2045
March 21Mar 21 2 hours ago, Ethan said: I think these are both fair comments. While I agree that an external sponsor of making tower city a true rail hub again would do wonders for Tower City and Cleveland as a whole, I also agree that laying the blame at the foot of the developer that has most strongly bet on the future of downtown Cleveland just isn't fair. As others have noted, if the city itself isn't willing to strongly embrace the concept of Tower City returning to its roots as a rail hub, it's not reasonable to expect an external actor to do so on its behalf. Sure, Bedrock owns Tower City, but they aren't going to do much of anything with regards to rail expansion without heavy involvement of the City and other governmental agencies. If the City doesn't want it to happen, it won't, and realistically, if the City is ambivalent about it (which I think it is), it's not going to happen either. To be sure Bedrock deserves some blame for not seeing the vision, and some actions that seem to block a CVSR extension, but I'd argue the principle actor at fault here is still the City. If the City wants to extend CVSR they need to take the lead. Study and determine a preferred right of way, then don't allow any building that will jeopardize that right of way. If a developer (even Bedrock) wants to obstruct that right of way, don't allow it. The City (and Bedrock) still probably have a chance here, as at least one potential right of way for CVSR runs under the Eagle ave extension. Unless a different route is determined to be preferable the City should ensure this bridge is conducted in such a way so as to leave room for a rail right of way underneath it. Will Bedrock object? Maybe, but it's ultimately the City's job to stand up for its own interest, not the developer. If Bedrock objects the City should tell them to come up with an alternative routing that brings CVSR closer to downtown than their preferred location. Bedrock's not a charitable organization, it will stand up for what it sees as its own interest. I think they are wrong when it comes to CVSR and they might as well reach out to Brightline, and they would benefit from their involvement as Ken suggests. But ultimately the City has the primary responsibility to stand up for Cleveland's best interest, and to the extent they aren't doing that they should bare primary responsibility. I'm not blaming Bedrock at all for the situation we find ourselves in. I AM saying that because they own Tower City and plan on developing the riverfront next to it they are in a unique position to take charge of getting rail to their (at one time) rail hub. If they were successful it would only enhance their investment. Sometimes it takes an orginization or a person to push or champion a project for it to succeed. It's not exactly the same thing but look at Jimmy Haslam. He is championing a move to Brook Park and he'll probably get it through force of will and arm twisting, not to mention buying a few politicians. Sometimes you need a strong advocate to push through.
March 21Mar 21 Author Bedrock at that planning commission spoke as if they are helpless in generating foot traffic to Tower City while at the same time rejecting at least two tenants who could add 200,000 people per year to the health of a property it acquired, plus an additional 500,000-1 million per Amtrak's plans (and/or comparable foot traffic from Brightline). Since US cities react to development plans rather than initiate them, it's up to Bedrock to ask the city for help to achieve its vision, as it has. And so far that vision has not included any consideration of reactivating a former railroad station despite several passenger rail expansion plans getting underway. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 22Mar 22 7 hours ago, Dino said: Just remember guys...THIS is under construction. How cool is that? It will take decades to complete. It will change and evolve. It won't be perfect. But we could be looking at construction photos of this project on this blog well into 2045! And according to this rendering, by 2045, people will be kayaking at night in light up boats! Heck yeah! It's too soon to be Monday morning quarterbacking this thing. We're still in the first quarter! To be fair, the only building actually under construction isn't even in this photo. "This" is a heck of a lot more likely if it has Amtrak, CVSR, and RTA connections all in one spot. Sure—a push from the city government, Amtrak, Brightline, etc. would be huge. But at the end of the day, Bedrock's riverfront development is literally on top of the largest passenger rail station in the state of Ohio. If anyone stands to directly benefit from state/national rail service, it's them. Edited March 22Mar 22 by sonisharri
March 22Mar 22 15 hours ago, KJP said: Bedrock at that planning commission spoke as if they are helpless in generating foot traffic to Tower City while at the same time rejecting at least two tenants who could add 200,000 people per year to the health of a property it acquired, plus an additional 500,000-1 million per Amtrak's plans (and/or comparable foot traffic from Brightline). Since US cities react to development plans rather than initiate them, it's up to Bedrock to ask the city for help to achieve its vision, as it has. And so far that vision has not included any consideration of reactivating a former railroad station despite several passenger rail expansion plans getting underway. Did the 1980's Forest City legacy generation of the Ratner/Miller family in their heydey of Cleveland development ever consider a rail station option for their Phase 2 riverfront plan before it fizzled?
March 22Mar 22 17 hours ago, Dino said: Just remember guys...THIS is under construction. How cool is that? It will take decades to complete. It will change and evolve. It won't be perfect. But we could be looking at construction photos of this project on this blog well into 2045! And according to this rendering, by 2045, people will be kayaking at night in light up boats! Heck yeah! It's too soon to be Monday morning quarterbacking this thing. We're still in the first quarter! Exactly event the initial phases will be force multipliers for so much. Completion of all of the bulkheads and Phase 1a and 1b (announcement pending?) will be the success test for the rest of Bedrock Riverfront and repositioning of their ShW Landmark buildings/adjacent vacant lot (if Public Square is every done) and maybe bookend everything in that immediate area with their former NuCLEus site. Plus I recall seeing something here about the bike lanes on Ontario finally heating up? If so that will help begin to narrow that too-wide street. Lots to look forward to.
March 22Mar 22 Author 37 minutes ago, Willo said: Did the 1980's Forest City legacy generation of the Ratner/Miller family in their heydey of Cleveland development ever consider a rail station option for their Phase 2 riverfront plan before it fizzled? Yes. It was studied twice, 10 years apart. First was in 1984 by Amtrak which had only the Lake Shore Ltd service for which Amtrak said it would add 25 minutes to the trains schedule and, more importantly, Amtrak would have to restore and maintain at least several miles of Amtrak-only track and two-level station facilities in the vacated station for that one train. The second study was in 1994, I believe, by RL Banks at the request of GCRTA. I wrote an article about it for Passenger Train Journal. It primarily focused on the former coach yards area of CUT between Huron and Canal roads and was proposed to be a six-track, three-platform station -- two high-level patforms and four tracks for commuter trains and two tracks, one platform for intercity/Amtrak. The station was to be built over the tracks and platforms. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 22Mar 22 I continue to hope that Bedrock's next development which they have said will include an entertainment venue and hotel will mean Cosm, the enhanced reality sport entertainment venue that Dan Gilbert and Dave Blitzer have invested in. Cosm has lately announced its next two locations will be Atlanta and Detroit, slated to open in 2026. Maybe Cleveland will see something in 2027. https://www.cosm.com/news/cosm-positioned-for-strong-strategic-growth-following-a-pivotal-2024 Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
March 22Mar 22 What if we end up with a Cosm from Gilbert, and a mini-Sphere from Dolan? And then I guess a Dave and Busters in Brook Park from the Haslams
March 29Mar 29 Just saw a comment on FB from a guy working on this and he said they are starting to set steel on April 7th
April 2Apr 2 Author Cavs, Clinic extend partnership at riverfront center By Ken Prendergast / April 2, 2025 The Cleveland Cavaliers pro basketball team and Cleveland Clinic healthcare system have finalized a 25-year extension of their partnership, lengthening the relationship to more than 55 years altogether. That makes it one of the nation’s longest continuous partnerships between a professional sports organization and a healthcare provider. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/02/cavs-clinic-extend-partnership-at-riverfront-center/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 2Apr 2 now bedrock needs to convince them to move their administrative headquarters to the riverfront
April 2Apr 2 22 minutes ago, KJP said: Cavs, Clinic extend partnership at riverfront center By Ken Prendergast / April 2, 2025 The Cleveland Cavaliers pro basketball team and Cleveland Clinic healthcare system have finalized a 25-year extension of their partnership, lengthening the relationship to more than 55 years altogether. That makes it one of the nation’s longest continuous partnerships between a professional sports organization and a healthcare provider. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/02/cavs-clinic-extend-partnership-at-riverfront-center/ This collaboration is a perfect example of vision and leadership that is often lacking in NEO.
April 2Apr 2 Author 8 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: now bedrock needs to convince them to move their administrative headquarters to the riverfront I was talking to one of Cleveland Clinic’s real estate guys about their HQ situation, and he said he didn't even know where Mihaljevic's office was! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 2Apr 2 On 3/21/2025 at 4:48 PM, simplythis said: Geez: none of us will be around in 2045 This is why I kind of stopped checking on developments. Everything seems to take so long to progress. It's like realizing how old one would be after finally paying off the mortgage.
April 7Apr 7 Not really news, but just thought I'd share that I came across the timeline for the Memorial Bridges Loop from Eagle Ave to Superior along Ontario and Huron while browsing through ODOT projects: https://ellisproj.dot.state.oh.us/ScheduleData.aspx?pid=120754 This seems to all check out because the Eagle Ave rehabilitation as part of the Cavs project should be done or close to being done by June 2026 in time for them to kick off the shared use path. Estimated start date is June 1, 2026.
April 13Apr 13 Photo from today, will have more later. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
April 13Apr 13 Curious how the rebuilt Eagle Avenue is going to play out. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
April 15Apr 15 On 4/13/2025 at 4:07 PM, MayDay said: Curious how the rebuilt Eagle Avenue is going to play out. Is that shot inclusive of the former eagle avenue bridge? Which I am guessing is no longer standing at this point? You have to think the timing of the Cavs facility means they may have had something to do with that amazing structure coming down, which was a sad remnant of Cleveland’s industrial past. Spent a lot of time up on the bridge in the past, it had some of the best views in the city…
April 15Apr 15 15 hours ago, noname said: Is that shot inclusive of the former eagle avenue bridge? Which I am guessing is no longer standing at this point? You have to think the timing of the Cavs facility means they may have had something to do with that amazing structure coming down, which was a sad remnant of Cleveland’s industrial past. Spent a lot of time up on the bridge in the past, it had some of the best views in the city… Blame the city for not up keeping the bridge.
April 16Apr 16 I mean, in a city as poor as Cleveland I guess deferred maintenance catches up with you. If we have to chose whether to keep an obsolete bridge (admittedly very cool) or our actual bridges functioning, i’d choose the latter.
April 18Apr 18 On 4/14/2025 at 10:07 PM, noname said: Is that shot inclusive of the former eagle avenue bridge? Which I am guessing is no longer standing at this point? You have to think the timing of the Cavs facility means they may have had something to do with that amazing structure coming down, which was a sad remnant of Cleveland’s industrial past. Spent a lot of time up on the bridge in the past, it had some of the best views in the city… you would climb up it? sounds fun
April 24Apr 24 I wonder how long we'll have to wait until something is done with the old steam plant? Either it's torn down or repurposed. Anyone know who owns it?
April 24Apr 24 4 minutes ago, cadmen said: I wonder how long we'll have to wait until something is done with the old steam plant? Either it's torn down or repurposed. Anyone know who owns it? Cleveland Thermal still owns it but I don't know if it's operating in any capacity.
April 24Apr 24 Just now, Oldmanladyluck said: 5 minutes ago, cadmen said: I wonder how long we'll have to wait until something is done with the old steam plant? Either it's torn down or repurposed. Anyone know who owns it? Cleveland Thermal still owns it but I don't know if it's operating in any capacity. KJP article from August of 2023 - Cleveland Thermal target of acquisition
April 25Apr 25 3 hours ago, NorthShore647 said: KJP article from August of 2023 - Cleveland Thermal target of acquisition We hope Bedrock was the interested buyer. No need to bulldoze another part of history - repurpose it for any uses as done with other decommissioned power plants such as in London and Barcelona: https://www.dezeen.com/2022/10/05/battersea-power-station-opens-wilkinson-eyre/ https://www.dezeen.com/2025/04/03/barcelona-power-tres-xemeneies-e-la-nave-va/ Notice they even put an elevator to an observation platform at the top of one of the smokestacks in London.
April 25Apr 25 1 hour ago, Willo said: We hope Bedrock was the interested buyer. No need to bulldoze another part of history - repurpose it for any uses as done with other decommissioned power plants such as in London and Barcelona: https://www.dezeen.com/2022/10/05/battersea-power-station-opens-wilkinson-eyre/ https://www.dezeen.com/2025/04/03/barcelona-power-tres-xemeneies-e-la-nave-va/ Notice they even put an elevator to an observation platform at the top of one of the smokestacks in London. Broadly speaking, I think other cities around the world (and rust belt) have done a better job of preserving their industrial heritage through adaptive reuse projects. Obviously there is Jacob's Powerhouse project on the West Bank for a Cleveland example, but I always thought the Columbus Muni Light Plant project was an interesting comparison to a potential redevelopment of the Thermal Plant. It was a pretty challenging and expensive project that took years, but it was a feasible redevelopment of an old coal burning facility on the edge of downtown next to a stadium mixed use project. https://columbusunderground.com/hard-hat-tour-municipal-light-plant-bw1/ https://www.gbxgroup.com/property-profile/577-589-w-nationwide-blvd I don't think anyone other than Bedrock could really get a redevelopment of the plant done (with them essentially controlling everything around the structure), so hopefully they show interest in preserving it for a future phase of the riverfront project.
April 25Apr 25 'Not hopeful of using Bedrock and adaptive resuse / historic preservation in the same sentence. After the Columbia Bldg (1908) was demolished for parking lanes to a casino garage next door, and the Stanley Block Bldg (1870s) was demolished for "Dice Park". Okay, so now maybe they owe Cleveland a high-vis turnaround project, not directly related to the casino? BTW, lol. "Dice Park in downtown Cleveland may have set a speed record for the public condemnation of a weak design idea." Edited April 25Apr 25 by ExPatClevGuy
April 25Apr 25 Quickly and poorly drawn on my phone, but I think I've posted this thought in the CVSR thread before too. If getting CVSR into Tower City is off the table, make the Thermal Plant into the CVSR station. But also make it an Erie Canal Museum/Cuyahoga River Museum/EPA Museum/CVNP Visitors Center. Have CVSR terminate on the current Canal Rd since that will be moving over to the current rail RoW. The roof of the lower portion of Thermal is pretty similar in height to Huron/Ontario, so build a bridge/plaza over the tracks to an entry point on the roof, which also has an entrance/exit to the RTA/Gateway walkway. It would create a plaza next the the planned Bedrock hotel too. Guests at this hotel could take a train to the Rock Hall and CVSR in a very short walk, as well as making rapid riders to CVSR an easy walk compared to the current potential W3rd stop.
April 25Apr 25 On 4/7/2025 at 3:56 PM, Geowizical said: Not really news, but just thought I'd share that I came across the timeline for the Memorial Bridges Loop from Eagle Ave to Superior along Ontario and Huron while browsing through ODOT projects: https://ellisproj.dot.state.oh.us/ScheduleData.aspx?pid=120754 This seems to all check out because the Eagle Ave rehabilitation as part of the Cavs project should be done or close to being done by June 2026 in time for them to kick off the shared use path. Estimated start date is June 1, 2026. Love me a project schedule
April 25Apr 25 11 hours ago, NorthShore647 said: Broadly speaking, I think other cities around the world (and rust belt) have done a better job of preserving their industrial heritage through adaptive reuse projects. Obviously there is Jacob's Powerhouse project on the West Bank for a Cleveland example, but I always thought the Columbus Muni Light Plant project was an interesting comparison to a potential redevelopment of the Thermal Plant. It was a pretty challenging and expensive project that took years, but it was a feasible redevelopment of an old coal burning facility on the edge of downtown next to a stadium mixed use project. https://columbusunderground.com/hard-hat-tour-municipal-light-plant-bw1/ https://www.gbxgroup.com/property-profile/577-589-w-nationwide-blvd I don't think anyone other than Bedrock could really get a redevelopment of the plant done (with them essentially controlling everything around the structure), so hopefully they show interest in preserving it for a future phase of the riverfront project. I like that comparison! The Columbus Muni plant proved to be a solid anchor for broader development in the area, including the Crew stadium a block or two away. This is what industrial cities should do. Edited April 25Apr 25 by ASP1984
April 25Apr 25 3 hours ago, PlanCleveland said: Quickly and poorly drawn on my phone, but I think I've posted this thought in the CVSR thread before too. If getting CVSR into Tower City is off the table, make the Thermal Plant into the CVSR station. But also make it an Erie Canal Museum/Cuyahoga River Museum/EPA Museum/CVNP Visitors Center. Have CVSR terminate on the current Canal Rd since that will be moving over to the current rail RoW. The roof of the lower portion of Thermal is pretty similar in height to Huron/Ontario, so build a bridge/plaza over the tracks to an entry point on the roof, which also has an entrance/exit to the RTA/Gateway walkway. It would create a plaza next the the planned Bedrock hotel too. Guests at this hotel could take a train to the Rock Hall and CVSR in a very short walk, as well as making rapid riders to CVSR an easy walk compared to the current potential W3rd stop. I quickly put together a version of this a few years back when the initial Bedrock plans for the riverfront site were being released. I had CVSR staying on the existing tracks to the Thermal Plant spur line/B&O tracks along the river. The tracks would end at a plaza directly below the Thermal plant and above the River along the relocated Canal Road. The biggest question was if there would be enough clearance under the new Eagle Avenue bridge/ramp. Again this was ~2 years ago before more details about Bedrocks plans were released. Repurposing a portion of the thermal plant for a historical center seemed like a no brainer with it being right downtown, across the river from the towpath, and essentially on the route of the original canal. The Visitors Center (maybe call it the The "Cuyahoga Valley National Park/Ohio and Erie Canalway National Heritage Area/Western Reserve Historical Society Visitors Center at Tower City /s) would be complemented by the extended Towpath trail, new Canal Basin Park, and a potential renovation of the B&O/Cleveland Terminal and Valley Railroad Depot. Work with the Western Reserve Historical Society to potentially display items from Cleveland's industrial past that they may have in their collection, and run a historic train tour type service on the CVSR to Hale Farm and Village / Indigo Lake station. Rent bikes from the facility with the CVSR providing an easy return trip downtown. Here's a look at the thermal plant and surrounding B&O/CUT tracks under the old Eagle Avenue viaduct in the late 1940s And the few tracks that remain today
April 25Apr 25 ^ Love the concept. And the name but it may be a little wordy. I propose we use CVNP/OECNHA/WRHSVCTC!! instead. I just threw in the !! for emphasis but if they're too much we could leave them out. Whatever works.
May 6May 6 The Cleveland Clinic Cavaliers Globa ... this thing. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
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