>it's my been my experience that people who never lived outside the area are the most miserable.  They are the ones who feel "stuck" for whatever reason (job, house, family) and are bitter about their place in life and therefore don't take advantage of Ohio's cultural institutions, appreciate it's architecture, or any other city's amenities.  Those who lived elsewhere but came back or decided to stay, have done so because they made a choice and are generally satisfied.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with this.  What drives me crazy are people who equate middle class vacation destinations with perfection.  They've convinced themselves that if they move to Florida or Hilton Head permanently that they'll have made it.  I have no use for the entire south -- if it's so warm how come everyone still just watches TV and gets fat?

 

I am more than content in Ohio.  I don't even have roots here.  I've got family in Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, Peoria, Annapolis, Baltimore, Rhode Island, Seattle, Phoenix, Oklahoma, and Bamberg Germany.  I've spent time in all of those places and discovered their charms and fallbacks.  I moved TO Cincinnati because it's a beautiful, has a stable economy, has a strong artistic and design focused culture, has an incredible quality of life for the cost, has strong cultural traditions, has plenty to offer families, has an amazing history, has a promising future, has a political climate that is exciting and rewarding (if you get past the infuriating aspects), has proximity to other cities with unique cultures, has four complete seasons that never get old, etc.

 

This city is fantastic and I wouldn't live anywhere else.

>it's my been my experience that people who never lived outside the area are the most miserable.  They are the ones who feel "stuck" for whatever reason (job, house, family) and are bitter about their place in life and therefore don't take advantage of Ohio's cultural institutions, appreciate it's architecture, or any other city's amenities.  Those who lived elsewhere but came back or decided to stay, have done so because they made a choice and are generally satisfied.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with this.  What drives me crazy are people who equate middle class vacation destinations with perfection.  They've convinced themselves that if they move to Florida or Hilton Head permanently that they'll have made it.  I have no use for the entire south -- if it's so warm how come everyone still just watches TV and gets fat?

 

 

The south would be a wonderful place if it had better cities, and ones that adapted better to the climate.

Im content, and I got my girlfriend to be content as well. She loves Cleveland almost as much as me, which wasn't always the case.

 

Funny thing about Florida is I know several people who have vacationed there, and hated it. They said it was overrated and miserable. And these people weren't Cleveland fans either.

 

I just moved back to Ohio from Florida this week.  Florida to say the least, is overrated.  It's hard to explain.  I lived outside of Gainesville, Florida's ultimate college town.  I even thought Gainesville was too chainy for me.  Florida cities outside of Miami lack any real cool neighborhoods and hipster areas.  I did my freshmen year in Cleveland, and couldn't begin to describe how much I missed a REAL city.

 

I think so many Ohioans have the grass is greener mentality.  I certainly did.  I couldn't wait to leave.  It took my living outside of the state for over a year to realize how good I had it here.  Also, Ohioans see Florida as always sunny and the beaches.  Let me tell you how boring and overrated all that is.  While living in Florida's "ultimate college town", I can't even begin to tell you how many of my friends who were native Floridians were looking to move out of Florida.  If you are not in tourism or construction, you better look elsewhere basically.  Miami is nice if you speak spanish.  Tampa, Orlando, and Jacksonville are nice if you like the mall, Applebees, and freeways that lead for miles in every direction.

 

The great thing about the United States is we can move wherever we want, and everybody looks at every place very subjectively.  I was just talking to my dad last night about how overrated Florida was and why I left.  My stepmom who only looks at weather as a driving force of people moving things Florida is heaven.  It's hard to explain to Ohioans how underrated it is here because they think it is so much better everywhere else.  I have noticed Ohio has a big boomerang effect.  A lot of people (myself included) move away thinking it is so much better elsewhere, and come back because it was actually much better here.

 

I am content with Ohio now until I finish school.  But I have my eyes on Philadelphia as a place I would really enjoy moving to.

I feel just as, if not more, stuck in my house when it is 95 and humid than when it is below freezing.  It always amazes me how some people just can't understand that heat can be just as uncomfortable as the cold for a lot of people.  When I lived down south, I once got home from work to find that the plastic bag around my bread had melted to the kitchen table.  3 straight months of humid, 90+ heat wears on me way more than our winters.  I was in Charlotte this summer riding my bike around in late July..... I got lost in a residential neighborhood and couldn't find my way out.... nor could I find one single soul out in their front yard or walking to give me directions.  People hybernate during those months and it just runs contrary to everything I'm used to in that the summer months are the time that the last thing you want to do is be inside.

 

RnR - most remote starters have your security concerns taken care of.  Look into it.  Also, my point was that if you warm up your car for about 10 minutes before you actually try to scrape it off, it makes the job much, much easier because your defroster will have already have been running.

 

I would take an Ohio winter over a SE summer any year.  Another example of people up north just not getting it.  I lived outside of Gainesville in the true south.  From the poverty, dirt roads that literally destroyed my car (like driving on Michigan roads but they are sand), and the rattle snacks... not to mention the scorpions that would crawl out of the mailbox, down the walls, and checking your shoes to make sure they weren't living in there.  I own a black car with black leather interior, do you know how comfortable that was to get in in the middle of August?  You go from your air conditioned house to air conditioned car.  Nobody goes outside to do anything, and I remember going to watch a football game in November... NOVEMBER! and people were dripping in sweat.  All I could think about was a crisp Ohio fall day.

I get the occasional restless urge to wander, like long term wander- join the Peace Corp, become a professional busker, hitch hike cross country, run off to Europe, whatever.  For the most part I'm content here, though.  I'm extremely happy, however, that I will get to return to Seattle for a while this summer, which was my other home for a little while. 

I'm content in Ohio. I always get the itch to leave but everytime I do something lures me back. Traveling recharges my batteries and keeps me happy. I grew up in a small town and nothing could replace the friends and family that I have here in Ohio. The only big cities in the state that I would be content with is Cincinnati and Cleveland. Although I didn't get to see much of Cleveland when I traveled there for the first time this past summer, it stuck on me for some reason. I hate the suburbs of Cincy so downtown would be ideal for me if I moved.

I don't like the term "content" because it implies that I'm settling or think everything's "good enough".  I am, and will continue to be, involved in different efforts to help Cincinnati improve.  As long as I am enjoying my life here and see that it has the potential to keep improving, I am happy here.  If I ever feel like the city has lost that potential, I would consider moving elsewhere.

Based on the terms of that article I am stuck.  But I might get an early retirment/buyout offer in the next two or three months, which means I will relocate back to Kentucky.

 

As for Ohio...I can think of worse places to be stuck in.  Though Dayton does well & truly suck (I tell myself things could be worse & I could be in Lima) it IS close to Cincinnati, close enought to spend a lot of time there, and is reasonably close to Columbus for the occasional drive (same for Louisville)....and Cincy is one great city to be within easy driving distance from.  Cant get enough of that place.  Its reputation for conservatism is unfounded, IMO, given what I see of the place and whats going on... 

 

 

I agree with Richard Florida. Most young people I know who moved away to places with better job opportunities and more functional urbanism are very happy. Most who stayed in Ohio seem bitter about something, even the ones who have good jobs. I don't understand it since money is the root of all happiness, and if you have a good job, you should be grateful for that. Most people hate their jobs regardless of location. I'd say only maybe 20%-30% of Americans are actually happy with their jobs (probably 10% in Toledo). So your job is the core of happiness and affects every other aspect of your life. Unfortunately, a good job alone still might not be enough. Location is a close second in terms of happiness, hence why people are looking for places they actually want to live in, not just work in. Unless you have a bunch of vacation time, your leisure time will be spent in your metro area, so you better like it. Some parts of this country are clearly much happier than others.

 

The people I know who left Ohio don't even visit home anymore except for weddings and funerals. Northwest Ohio really is getting that dismal (I do think NW Ohio is the most depressing part of the state due to the recession). These out-migrants like Chicago, DC, Boston, etc. and have no plans of ever coming back to Ohio. Many of them are married now, so the anchor has been dropped in Lake Michigan or Chesapeake Bay. Even if they moved home, most of the people they grew up with are gone by now. The problem I'm seeing with boomerang Ohioans is that they picked nightmares to move to like Phoenix or Charlotte, and by comparison, realized Ohio is much better. Cincinnati is a tolerant, urbane, shining beacon on a hill if you lived in Charlotte. Cleveland really does rock if you lived in Omaha. Columbus is man's greatest nightlife scene if you lived in Salt Lake City. Toledo is a cultured urban mecca if you lived in Reno. There are crappier cities than the ones in Ohio. There are much better ones too.

 

The general rule of thumb is you have to move to an urban place with lots of other young people (duh). Florida might not be all it's cracked up to be since it's so suburban and not exactly going to have happening urban neighborhoods for young people outside of college towns (excluding Miami). People moving to the Southeast could very easily hate their move unless it's to Charleston or Savannah. Moving to Charlotte or Atlanta is like taking an Ohio city, leveling what's left of the urbanity, and then doubling the traffic! Yeah, they have milder winters, but it's just not worth it if your city sucks worse than the ones in Ohio do. People that moved to the older parts of Charleston and Savannah seem much happier, though admittedly, their job opportunities aren't much better than Ohio, which was their reason for moving south in the first place. Savannah and Charleston are tourist towns. But when you really think about, America's greatest cities are all tourist towns. How much of  the New York City, San Francisco, and Chicago economies are related to tourism? I bet it's a much bigger slice of the pie than anyone wants to admit...

 

Ohio doesn't have much tourism, which I'd argue is part of the reason the state is suffering. In this post-industrial service sector world, tourism is a big boost. No way would New York City and San Francisco be as nice as they are without those millions of tourists pumping billions of outside dollars into the economy. America's future will be as a playground for the rich of Asia and Europe. Ohio is not attracting this money, which is a big part of the reason its cities lack vitality and growth. It's funny how no one talks about this, but it's the truth. Take away New York City's tourism industry, and watch it collapse. If Ohio had more tourism, it would probably attract more people to move there.

 

There also exists a big divide between the Three C's and "other Ohio." Places like Toledo, Dayton, and Youngstown are in much worse economic shape than the three C's, and people move away for damn good reason (it seems mostly to Chicago based on my friends and family). The Three C's have more to offer a young single person than the other cities in Ohio do. With that said, their urban scenes are very weak compared to places like New York, DC, Boston, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, and other places where it's easy to ditch your car. Ohio still has a really long way to go since so much urbanity was destroyed. That's what is depressing about every city in the state, and it would take a century to rebuild, maybe longer. Life is short, hence why the state suffers from such a high rate of out-migration and low rate of in-migration. People move for very calculated reasons since it's probably the biggest, most potentially life-altering decision you can make.

 

The problem today is that young people are scared to move far away from home. It's a generation that's stuck. Depending on what home is like, you might have no other choice but to move away. Yeah, it's a terrible job market for most people, but this time is different. There is no solution for average college grads coming from big business or Washington. It's every man for himself. I guess that's a big difference between today and the Great Depression. People may have had more mobility back then. The current structure of America's universities has emasculated and indebted this generation. It's shocking how many people stay close to home after graduation, even though their opportunities are limited. If you don't have wealthy and/or supportive parents, it's really hard to move away. I think the reason Columbus is growing so much is because kids are scared to leave Ohio. Statistically, migration is falling in America. This used to be a nation where it was easy to get up and move. Not anymore. That's a part of our culture that is terrible to lose. Everybody is anchoring for the wrong reasons.

 

In this economy, you'll notice very few people are moving far away. They might be moving, but really can't leave home, hence all the moves to Chicago and Columbus (where family is close). Regional moves seem to be fairly common still. BIG moves are getting much rarer. So yes, I'd say it's being "stuck" (not at home, but regionally). I know plenty of people who moved to Columbus because they were too scared to move to New York, Boston, DC, or any of the nicer cities out west. They are already itching to move again since they mistakenly believed that Columbus was some Ohioan utopia, but found it has a lot of the same problems as other cities in Ohio, and the types of people they thought they were leaving behind all moved to Columbus too! So Columbus just became Ohio on steroids.

 

Believe it or not, I occasionally hear the same stuff from Chicago transplants. "How come everyone here is from Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Wisconsin?!" There is a big difference between regional moves where you stay in the same cultural sphere, and cross-country/out-of-country moves where you really are taking a risk. Most cities, even magnet cities, are dominated by people from the same state or surrounding states. By leaving that zone, you're entering a foreign culture.

 

If you never live outside of your native region, it's very easy to get stuck. Once people marry, big moves become extremely rare. No doubt the time to move is when you're young, single, and childless. I know a lot of angry, jaded people in Toledo who are still there because they are married and/or have kids there. They anchored in Maumee Bay and regret it. I feel bad for their spouse or kid(s). My issue with Ohio has always been the fact it has too few people who choose to live there. Circumstances put them there. It's tough to describe how that destroys the culture and social scene, but you'll know what's wrong if you ever live in a place where everyone wants to live there. It's a wholly different worldview.

Based on the terms of that article I am stuck.  But I might get an early retirment/buyout offer in the next two or three months, which means I will relocate back to Kentucky.

 

As for Ohio...I can think of worse places to be stuck in.  Though Dayton does well & truly suck (I tell myself things could be worse & I could be in Lima) it IS close to Cincinnati, close enought to spend a lot of time there, and is reasonably close to Columbus for the occasional drive (same for Louisville)....and Cincy is one great city to be within easy driving distance from.  Cant get enough of that place.  Its reputation for conservatism is unfounded, IMO, given what I see of the place and whats going on...

 

I am going to assume Kentucky is home, but Kentucky, really?  I drove up 75 through Kentucky several times, and I don't think I have felt as uncomfortable in a long time as I have in Kentucky.  It was backwards to say the least.  I have heard the horror stories of the poverty in Kentucky.  I stopped and couldn't understand a word anyone was saying, everyone looked depressed, and I don't think I have seen so many overweight people in my life.  Louisville is OK, but Lexington sprawled like it was on steriods.  The only part that felt decent was NKY.

 

Good luck on the move back though.

>If you don't have wealthy and/or supportive parents, it's really hard to move away.

 

Some people raise their kids to stay, others raise them to leave.  I've been mentioning it in other threads, but in the last 10 years apartments have gotten so expensive in the big cities that it's virtually impossible to move there speculatively.  In the midwest you can find apartments that require no security deposit at all, but in the big cities you usually have to pay last month's rent in addition to first month's and a deposit.  This means moving to New York City without a job is stupid with anything less than $10,000 in the bank and REALLY stupid if you have less than $5,000.  It's basically impossible to save up that amount of money if you pay for most or all of your college education and car.  So unless you have a job waiting for you, the only people who can move speculatively to the big cities are those who have gotten total support from their parents (plus many, many $1,000 birthday checks from Aunt Debra). 

 

 

 

It has always been that way in NYC. This is nothing new. It was like that 40 years ago. Maybe kids then weren't so accustomed to luxury as they are today.

No, it hasn't.  Up until 2000 there were still areas in Manhattan where cheap apartments could be had (usually areas with poor subway access like the Lower East Side and Chelsea), as well as right across the river in Queens and Brooklyn.  I know because I knew people who lived in LARGE apartments for $800/mo back in 2000.  I visited a guy's place who rented an entire floor of an abandoned factory in what is now called DUMBO (York St. on the F train) for $1,600. 

 

The only person I know living in a sub-$1,000 apartment in NYC now lives in Bedford-Stuyvesant right next to high-rise public housing and burnt-out row houses.  And they had bed bugs. 

 

I am going to assume Kentucky is home, but Kentucky, really?

 

I have two "homes"...Chicago and Louisville.  I feel at home in both places.  Chicago of course would be my preference but I can't afford to live there.  Louisville I can.

 

I am not a fan of Louisvilles suburbia, which is a lot "worse" than here in Dayton in turns of low-quality & poorly planned development.  Dayton is superior to Louisville (and maybe even Cincy) if one likes suburban living.  I really don't, though i do live in suburbia.

 

Louisvilles'  progressive/hipster urban culture there appeals to me, as does the physical form of the preWII city.  And I am a big fan of the Jefferson Memorial Forest since I love to hike.  That and other preserves south and north of the city make Lou a good spot for hikers.

 

My appreciation for Kentucky is aesthetic, the landscape and some of the rural (upper) South culture.  I recognize the people are pretty ignorant.  But Ive run across a lot of ignorant people in Dayton, too.  More than I'd expect from white collar college "educated" folks.  People seem slightly more cosmopolitan & aware in Louisville and Lexington (Lexington is a different story...yes it sprawls, but its more like a little Columbus). 

 

Maybe the thing about Kentucky is that its suprising that it isn't as bad & backward as  one would expect and whats disapporinting about Ohio is that its more backward than it should be, given whats available and the legacy of economic prosperity here..  ...and I should say I dont want to trash talk Ohio.  I think Ive posted enough on Cleveland here, for example, for readers to know how much I like that city.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it hasn't.  Up until 2000 there were still areas in Manhattan where cheap apartments could be had (usually areas with poor subway access like the Lower East Side and Chelsea), as well as right across the river in Queens and Brooklyn.  I know because I knew people who lived in LARGE apartments for $800/mo back in 2000.  I visited a guy's place who rented an entire floor of an abandoned factory in what is now called DUMBO (York St. on the F train) for $1,600. 

 

The only person I know living in a sub-$1,000 apartment in NYC now lives in Bedford-Stuyvesant right next to high-rise public housing and burnt-out row houses.  And they had bed bugs. 

 

 

Sorry guy, your post doesn't make sense.  A person rented an entire floor of an abandoned factory? I dont think that is what you meant to say.

I agree with Richard Florida. Most young people I know who moved away to places with better job opportunities and more functional urbanism are very happy. Most who stayed in Ohio seem bitter about something, even the ones who have good jobs. I don't understand it since money is the root of all happiness, and if you have a good job, you should be grateful for that. Most people hate their jobs regardless of location. I'd say only maybe 20%-30% of Americans are actually happy with their jobs (probably 10% in Toledo).

 

Sorry, but I couldn't make it much past this stuff. Money is the root of all happiness? How sad for you. Most people hate their jobs? Really?? And where did you get those percentages? Must be hard to sit down after removing them so we can all read them!

I once heard God say that "some of the happiest people on earth come home smelling to high heaven at the end of every day"

 

I can't lie.  Quite often I drive by a landscaper or other person doing manual labor while on my way to work and I am just flat out envious.  I'm sure the other side of the grass would be greener if I was in his shoes, but it doesn't change the fact that I find a certain peace of mind in manual labor that I don't find in my chosen profession.  Probably why I do it as a hobby and none of them do anything remotely resembling my profession as a hobby.

 

The grass really is greener. When I was laboring on my feet all day (obviously not in construction, but in retail and restaurants), all I wanted was a desk job and insurance. Then I got it. For 15 years. Now all I want is a job where I can move around and be on my feet more. But I can't do restaurant/retail, that's not quite right. I want to work on a farm or something. Or be a park ranger. But yeah, I can't make what I make here doing that, and the credit card companies kind of don't like it when you don't pay them, so here I stay.

I knew you were on a one-to-one basis with God, but thanks for confirming it!!!!

I agree with Richard Florida. Most young people I know who moved away to places with better job opportunities and more functional urbanism are very happy. Most who stayed in Ohio seem bitter about something, even the ones who have good jobs. I don't understand it since money is the root of all happiness, and if you have a good job, you should be grateful for that. Most people hate their jobs regardless of location. I'd say only maybe 20%-30% of Americans are actually happy with their jobs (probably 10% in Toledo).

 

Sorry, but I couldn't make it much past this stuff. Money is the root of all happiness? How sad for you. Most people hate their jobs? Really?? And where did you get those percentages? Must be hard to sit down after removing them so we can all read them!

 

Yes, I really mean it. If you've ever been dirt poor, surrounded by poverty, and taken advantage of, you know what I'm talking about. Money is freedom in America. I'm not advocating white collar misery. I'm advocating finding a job that covers survival basics. Plenty of people in Toledo and Cleveland aren't making anywhere near that. Concentrated poverty = misery, and Ohio cities have no shortage of that (see city rankings).

 

And people bitch about their jobs to insane degrees. It seems like very few people are happy in what they do these days. I would consider this a big change in the United States. The happiness seems to be directly related to salary. In a mainstream newsroom, people are miserable. In a financial boutique, people are much happier. Job + location is everything in this country.

I am almost 43. One of the predominant memories of my childhood is everyone sitting around and bitching about their jobs. At my Grandma's, at my Baba's, at other adult events, etc. This is not new. Unless you mean more than 2 generations ago new.

^It's a 30-year trend of increasing unhappiness, with a major ramping up over the past three years. My grandparents never complained about work.

My grandparents hardly worked! My grandmothers raised 4 and 5 kids, respectively, during the depression on one meager family income, which was largely eliminated during that time. My grandfather worked at Ohio Brass and was laid off. My other grandfather lived on his military pension.

^I have some ancestors who had to resort to bootlegging and winemaking during the depression, and adjusted for inflation, still did better than most college grads today. Some then got high-paying factory jobs that just flat out are gone today. Never once did they talk ill about work. They owned their homes, owned cars, and could raise kids on a single salary. That era is dead.

 

Yes, people are happier when they're comfortable and not living paycheck to paycheck. I don't understand why money is not considered a vital factor in happiness. The depression didn't knock this country down. What's happening today on the jobs front is different since it's a long trend, not aberration. Your job and your location are going to affect every other aspect of your life.

Job + location is everything in this country.

 

Maybe to you at this point in your life.  But I would expect that to change.  It doesn't for everyone (and I feel sorry for those people), but I would say for most people I know job and location are not the end all be all, and definitely not 'everything'.  I have three things that dwarf in my mind any priority I place on job and location.

Family and relationships should be more important, but if the job and decent living situation isn't there first, good luck having healthy relationships.

 

Now let's say you lose your job tomorrow, are broke, and fail to find work for a year. Your wife and kids want to stay in Cleveland, but you get a great opportunity in Denver. What do you do?

Well, your family must have done pretty well then, historically. My paternal grandparents, who had 5 kids, NEVER HAD A CAR. My maternal grandparents only had 1 car ever. If you call raising kids having them eat homemade bread and jelly for dinner several nights a week, then yeah, they did fine. You do not KNOW paycheck to paycheck, or real poverty. Do your shoes all have holes? Do you wear the same clothes every day? Is a single potato a meal for your whole day? That was my mother's life growing up.

Every dollar I make (two full time jobs, folks) goes to rent, utilities, school debt, food, cell phone bills, and health insurance. On good months I have some cash left for some savings and a little recreation i.e. eating out once in a while or enjoying a cigar. And I still come short some months, and have to ask the parents for a little help on rare occasion.

 

It's not that money is the root of happiness but rather money is the root of existence, of independence, of survival. It's 2011 and you read about stories where communities fight to keep $9/hr jobs in their cities. You know how far that gets you today? I don't care where you live, that's unbelievable. The only things going down in price are housing and salaries; everything else, especially health care, is going up and we have no ways of affording it without money. It is absolutely the root of survival and with that comes happiness because without money, we have nothing. No means to providing for our families, no means to take care of ourselves, certainly no way of paying for fun, and oddly no sympathy for the radically enlarging poor. Blaming people for being unemployed has been a Republican mantra for a while, but Dems aren't much better either. It isn't laziness; it's just life isn't fair.

 

C-dawg is right; this depression is more than an aberration. It is a complete alteration from how we used to live, from the comfort we once had, from the ability to provide for you children on some level, from the existence of a strong middle class. Not one politician has really gotten into the longterm economic viability of our country because they're scared to and everyone knows the truth: we're screwed.

 

There is a national-level desperation I don't think fully employed people realize. You can't appreciate money's importance to simply living unless you don't have it. 

I agree with Richard Florida. Most young people I know who moved away to places with better job opportunities and more functional urbanism are very happy. Most who stayed in Ohio seem bitter about something, even the ones who have good jobs. I don't understand it since money is the root of all happiness, and if you have a good job, you should be grateful for that. Most people hate their jobs regardless of location. I'd say only maybe 20%-30% of Americans are actually happy with their jobs (probably 10% in Toledo).

 

Sorry, but I couldn't make it much past this stuff. Money is the root of all happiness? How sad for you. Most people hate their jobs? Really?? And where did you get those percentages? Must be hard to sit down after removing them so we can all read them!

 

Yes, I really mean it. If you've ever been dirt poor, surrounded by poverty, and taken advantage of, you know what I'm talking about. Money is freedom in America. I'm not advocating white collar misery. I'm advocating finding a job that covers survival basics. Plenty of people in Toledo and Cleveland aren't making anywhere near that. Concentrated poverty = misery, and Ohio cities have no shortage of that (see city rankings).

 

And people bitch about their jobs to insane degrees. It seems like very few people are happy in what they do these days. I would consider this a big change in the United States. The happiness seems to be directly related to salary. In a mainstream newsroom, people are miserable. In a financial boutique, people are much happier. Job + location is everything in this country.

 

Did you notice my extremely happy post regarding Cincinnati a page back?  I am incredibly happy with my life.  Do I make six figures?  Not a chance.  Do I own a car?  Nope.  Do I have a television?  Never.  Life is what you make of it.  If you're constantly telling yourself that you're a failure because you don't have as much money or stuff as the next person, you probably won't be very happy with yourself.  I'm proud of the life I've created for myself despite my income.  Yes, I live paycheck to paycheck (but that's partially because I choose to give 10% of my income to my 401k and I pay out to health insurance) but I can't complain because I'm not starving.  I have a comfortable little house.  I have a family that I take care of. 

 

I am not Stuck in Cincinnati.  I chose to move here because I love the quality of life here.  If I have to walk to work every day (like I do) I'd much rather walk past beautiful old Italianate buildings majestically sitting on hillsides than walk past the shiny glass megablocks they have in Chicago, DC, and New York.

Most people on this website are the 20-30%.

 

Again, I'm not talking six figures, not even close (that puts you on top of the world). I'm talking survival basics. I'm talking 30k a year at most is needed for happiness. Plenty of people in America today are working full-time at nowhere near that. Money is the root of all happiness, because if you don't have it, you can't really live on your own.

 

I can't complain because I'm not starving.  I have a comfortable little house.  I have a family that I take care of.

 

Correct, you have nothing to complain about. If you're not happy with all that, then something is wrong. Cincinnati has one of the highest standards of living in this country and best bang-for-buck. That's the problem with Richard Florida's map and I think why Ohioans got so defensive. It's not whole states as much as it's certain cities. The general quality of life in Detroit/Toledo/Flint/Dayton/etc. is different from Cincinnati.

 

I think I am somewhere in the middle of you guys, opinion-wise. On one hand, I definitely believe that those who most often trumpet that "money isn't everythign" are the ones who aren't hurting as badly as those who are really scraping by. Believe me, I spent the majority of my life as one of those "scraping by" people and it's the focus of EVERYTHING and everything feels unfair. Abject poverty drove my shoplifting habit in high school, my drug dealing post-college, and lots of other seedy behavior I don't care to discuss on here. But I also contend that there is a real difference between literally not having 2 nickels to rub together vs. just being overloaded with debt and not making as much money as, say, some of your peers. It's hard to live coveting what others have, and in jealousy of people's nicer cars, homes, etc. But it's not the same as having to go to a foodbank or a church for a handout meal, or standing in line for your food stamp card, or sleeping with someone because they will pay to get your car fixed or for your expensive prescription when you have no insurance, which I have done and I don't care what people think. THAT is poverty. Not being able to afford a new iphone or cable is not poverty, and a lot of people have lost perspective on what poverty really is. Even being able to borrow, to have the credit available to you to charge up gasoline or a crappy meal at McDonald's is more than some people have who are really poor. Most people bitching these days about how hard it is do not know what it is to be really hard up, to be stealing radar detectors out of people's cars and selling them for money so you can buy necessary school supplies (which I have also done, in high school). THAT is poor. Until you are that poor, stop crying.

 

 

But it's not the same as having to go to a foodbank or a church for a handout meal, or standing in line for your food stamp card, or sleeping with someone because they will pay to get your car fixed or for your expensive prescription when you have no insurance, which I have done and I don't care what people think. THAT is poverty.

 

Bingo. That's the core of my argument. In Toledo, there is in fact a hell of a lot of that going on right now. Those kind of places are where people get stuck. I don't see the Three C's being the same level of despair as cities like Toledo or Dayton these days. The smaller and mid-size Rust Belt cities are really getting bad...

 

It's really common for people to do sexual favors for rent, turn to crime when they can't get credit, etc. These things are happening in big numbers right now, and it's getting zero attention. Anyone who is actually poor cut their cable a long time ago. In the stuck cities, this just makes things worse. If you actually cut internet and phone service, you're cut off from the world at a time when you need people the most, especially people in other places that might give you a way out.

Maybe that's because you're not here. I see plenty of that despair here. I volunteer at the Cleveland foodbank from time to time and their demand is bigger than EVER before. They serve all the major and minor foodbanks and churches in town.

^Oh yeah, Cleveland still has extreme poverty. I guess the difference is that the job market is slightly better. A lot of Toledo's foodbanks and shelters were starting to shut down in 2009 and 2010 (I remember a really vital one in the Old South End had to close its doors). Demand was way too high and donations were way too low. I'd imagine few people actually will get a bed these days, and meals are very limited.

 

It's even worse in Detroit. The demand up there is biblical. That's what is scary these days in parts of the "Stuck Belt." I think you're right when saying demand is the highest it has ever been.

Family and relationships should be more important, but if the job and decent living situation isn't there first, good luck having healthy relationships.

 

To each his own, but without family and friends, my quality of life would suck..... I don't care if I lived in paradise and had a 7 figure salary with lifetime tenure.  I also have found out in my time that the phrase 'mo money, mo problems' has some very real truth to it...

 

Further, I would have no problem finding "a" job if I lost mine.  It might not be my ideal job, or even in my profession, but I would be employed.  I can guarantee you that..... and my confidence on that point is mostly because of the strong network of family and friends I have in the area.  Another common phrase applies here..... "it's not what you know, but who you know".  Now, if I uprooted my family and moved to Denver in search of greener pastures and lost my job, I probably would be in much more of a panic mode (although I am sure I could still find something to put food on the table)

Trust me, the less money, the even mo' problems.

I won't deny that, but money can't buy true happiness.  I know some miserable rich folks and I know some very content poor folks..... perhaps not content with their financial position, but financial position and happiness are not synonymous.  There are much, much, much more important things than money.  Take away my money and I would have my family and friends.  Take away my family and friends and I would have nothing.

^ That's the crazy talk rich folk tell poor folk to make them content with their lot in life. If I've got enough money, trust me when I say that family will find me. Probably with their hands out.

^+1

^+1

 

You need to go back to grad school, BTW. I much prefer the 'woo-hoo! College!!' C-Dawg, over the 'I've been presented with the harsh realities of life' C-Dawg. That guy's not as much fun.

It's crazy talk to say that money isn't the end all, be all of happiness?  That having true family and friends (not just the one's who would have their hand out) is more important than having boatloads of cash?  If you say so....

^+1

 

You need to go back to grad school, BTW. I much prefer the 'woo-hoo! College!!' C-Dawg, over the 'I've been presented with the harsh realities of life' C-Dawg. That guy's not as much fun.

 

Haha, yeah, I'd love to go back to the college bubble, either as an employee or grad student.

well said, AJ

The more I think about it, the more I think I am stuck in Ohio.  I'd much rather be living here in the State of Erie. ;)

We need to be teaching people how to grow cook their own food.  I'll never understand why people who are "in poverty" go to McDonalds.  That place is EXPENSIVE!  I cook my own food, eat some decent meals, and spend a third of what people who eat at McD's regularly spend.  I also don't understand why people let their houses fall apart.  IT'S YOUR HOME!  FIX IT!  I don't care if you're renting and there's "no incentive" to sweep the sidewalk or paint the walls.  The incentive is self-worth.

I have no interest in moving (though this is the wrong time of year to ask me this...lol).  It's more a matter of roots than being "stuck".  Perhaps it's because I grew up (to the extent that I did) here, but for eight or nine months of the year this is the part of the world that suits me best.

We need to be teaching people how to grow cook their own food.  I'll never understand why people who are "in poverty" go to McDonalds.  That place is EXPENSIVE!  I cook my own food, eat some decent meals, and spend a third of what people who eat at McD's regularly spend. 

 

THIS

It's crazy talk to say that money isn't the end all, be all of happiness?  That having true family and friends (not just the one's who would have their hand out) is more important than having boatloads of cash?  If you say so....

 

No, it's not crazy. Provided you have enough money to pay the bills, then it isn't what defines happiness. In that instance, what you're talking about truly is what's important. To be clear, I'm not talking about being filthy rich. Most of the wealthy people I know b!tch and complain more than the working class friends I have. It's about 'rich people problems' to be sure... but they're miserable just the same.

 

But I don't have to tell you that the inability to make ends meet will put a strain on any family... in many instances to the point of breaking. Money isn't the 'be all end all' of happiness. But it's an important component. Telling yourself otherwise is being disingenuous.

Nothing drives me more crazy than when my wealthy friends complain about their lives. Whining about their raises not being high enough, their bosses being on their a$$es, their not being appreciated at work, stuff like that. I have a close who friend who was making 6 figures at Microsoft in Seattle working 35 hours a week, and he still found room to complain about not working at facebook and google.

 

Obviously people like to complain; there's some therapuetic aspect to it, and it's probably healthy to get it out of your system here and there. But when someone making a living wage - in fact, one far higher than the average - is complaining about his financial circumstances to someone who isn't, I can't think of anything tackier or more infuriating.

 

And how did this forum go this direction anyhow ... the hell?

 

Back to the topic, oh yeah, I'm also very content in Cleveland and will return full time in a few years. Great city, glad to be part of its success, lots of faith in downtown becoming a residential magnet unique from other cities, in that I can see the jobs being in the suburbs and people living downtown as the new standard in a generation or two. I would love to live in Chagrin Falls someday. There, I tied it in non-sequitorlicious form.