While on a nice jog with some friends (and Urban Ohioans) this morning, I got to check out this site for the first time since...well, since I was born!  Saint Luke's Pointe holds a special place in my heart, as I was born here some 27 years ago. 

 

This project, much like Beacon Place, Battery Park and Mill Creek, will be reconstructing several blocks of a Cleveland neighborhood (Buckeye-Shaker) that needs and deserves new investment of this magnitude.  The homes will be modest and, in my opinion, attractive and will be located close to several great amenities, including those listed below.  The views of Downtown are pretty incredible, as the site is located on a slope, proceeding west from nearby Shaker Heights.

 

From Progressive Urban Real Estate's (www.progressiveurban.com) listings:

 

Blocks away from Shaker Square, Larchmere and University Circle, a new neighborhood of neo-traditional, single-family homes and townhouses, set in an 80+ unit development.

 

Special offer: $1,000 credit available to any buyer that pays city of Cleveland income taxes. $1,500 credit available to Case Western Reserve University, University Hospitals and Cleveland Clinic employees.

 

Starting at $154,900

 

The site plan (via PURE):

The northern half and current construction site:

The site from the front of the first new units:

There are about 9 units currently completed, this is an attached row of 5.

The hospital (now closed) from the front of the units:

The rear of the main building:

 

We jogged from here down to Buckeye, which looks to be in pretty good shape, over to Shaker Square, up to Larchmere and back down to the site, in just about a half-hour.  There's a lot to do in this very short distance! 

 

Also, the re-use of the St. Luke's building is still uncertain.  Perhaps with UH's recent upswing in construction, they'll look to re-open here.  They were the last operator of the hospital, but I've heard nothing as to this being a possibility...  I've heard that apartments may be an option, but I would imagine that the developer would prefer to locate another hospital/employer here.

 

 

 

My father was born at St. Luke's, too, but a few years (OK, 50) before you. In fact, today is his 77th birthday. Glad to see the site is being re-used, and in a manner better than an earlier plan I saw which looked like it was transplanted from the suburbs.

The planned use for the hospital is indeed going to be apartment condominiums.  A medical-related building is also supposed to be constructed on the site, I think to the east of the old hospital.

Great photos MGD! Thanks for posting.

What I heard is that the developer wants to find an institutional tenant to occupy some of the old hospital, because of the sheer amount of space. They're worried apartments alone wouldn't carry the project. (However, at least one wing would be redeveloped into apartments.)

And, yes, super photos! I love the views of downtown.

 

Might there be any rooftop patios etc in some of the designs?

Looks like a well thought out, solid, contextualy correct, infill. The site plan does a good job of repairing street grid. It appears (going by site plan) to be a good example to show other developers to work lare project infill, without turning their backside to whats allready there.

Its too bad that this project didn't do better. Hopefully Citirama will kick-start development.

 

Homes coming

(hopefully)

Friday, March 24, 2006

Christopher Montgomery

Plain Dealer Reporter

After delays, slow sales, a weak economy and diminished expectations, the Saint Luke's Pointe project near Shaker Square needed new momentum.

 

It looks as if it has arrived. Envisioned as about 80 new homes on 11 acres behind the closed hospital that is its namesake, the $20 million project will host the 2006 Citirama, a suburban-style home show in the city, in September.

 

The show will feature 12 new houses from 12 builders. Saint Luke's Pointe developers are hoping the increased visibility will help fill the site and eventually spur more construction and improvements in the surrounding Buckeye-Shaker neighborhood.

 

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

this site has great connections to both larchmere and shaker square though i'm not exactly sure how it's being sold.  i would certainly consider living here if they redeveloped the old hospital building as both larchmere and the square are vibrant and the buckeye area shows lots of promise.  it's a great area for cycling as well.  there is talk of moving  a public library location into the old hospital building.  there is currently a elementary and middle school at the corner and mlk and larchmere with a beautifully landscaped campus.

 

the site also has a great transit connection at a stop (lower right corner of site) that could certainly use a makeover.  anyone know of rta's plans for renovating this station?

 

i think this development would be best  marketed as a TOD.  transit efficient mortgages would give everyone 15% more buying power, which might be critical for getting the hospital units renovated at a relatively low price point. consider that  larchmere and the square can be reached by foot.  downtown by train.  cedar-lee, coventry, & little italy by bike.  paradise if you ask me.

 

 

Thanks for the posts, guys. Another big plus this site has going for it (mentioned in the article) are stunning views of downtown.

 

Ed Small spoke to one of my classes last semester. He said New Village was looking to attract an institution to use at least one wing of the old hospital. Apparently the Ohio College of Podiatric Medicine (currently at Uni Circle) was considering but has opted to move to Independence instead -- boo. (They're going into the old Realty One building at Rockside I believe.) Really, that hospital is gargantuan. I think for the short term, at least until the housing market heats up a little more in this area, it would make a lot of sense to do something mixed use. Trouble is, what's the mix going to be? I like the idea of a new library branch -- but that would be a drop in the bucket space-wise.

Thanks for posting WimWar, but why are you forsaking the Saint Luke's thread? 

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7181.0

Also, as Citirama progressed last year, there was apparently very much interest from buyers who were looking for infill lots throughout Glenville.  The potential here with a big site like this and a plan that already exists is pretty awesome.  Let's hope it really does get kickstarted!

^UO's search feature is pretty weak.  I searched "Saint Luke's Pointe" and nothing came up.

sure, blame it on the search engine... you were with me when I took the pictures!  eh, no biggie, I'm just giving you a hard time.  perhaps someone with the power would be inclined to merge the threads?

Has anyone heard any news regarding Citirama? Have they announced the 12 builders (Google failed me)?

I don't know about citirama, but construction has started on a number of homes on the site North of the Hospital. 

Well, the article above claimed that the showcase was supposed to run in September, but the Home Builders Association website says it'll be October 7th - 15th.  Either way, I would hope they've started construction by now! 

.

^UO's search feature is pretty weak.  I searched "Saint Luke's Pointe" and nothing came up.

 

One thing I've noticed is that if you're in the Projects & Construction section and you use the search function, it will search only for the words you want in the Projects & Construction section. But if you click on urbanohio.com at the bottom or top, and then do the search, it will search all forum sections. FYI...

you've just figured that out?  :wink:

I was over there a week or two ago and it looked as if they'd made significant progress on some new houses.

you've just figured that out?  :wink:

 

Negative. Just passing along lessons learned, be they from kindergarten or this morning, to those who indicate a need to know.  :speech:

We can count on you, KJP!

I'm a little alarmed that Citirama is three weeks away and the website STILL isn't up (http://www.hbacleveland.com/ME2/dirsect.asp?sid=67412DA00A63457B89A6702BEA04ED28&nm=Home+Shows)! What's going on?

Citirama is happening.

Fortunately, I got confirmation of that from the Home Builders' Association. Still, unlike previous installments, I've heard absolutely no marketing of the event. This may be because I don't really run with a housing or community development circle, but I didn't with the two previous Citiramas and still heard about those.

They shouldn't be marketing primarily to the CDC world anyway.  Talk about preaching to the choir!

The website for this year's Citirama (October 7-15) is up: www.hbacleveland.com/citirama2006.

Here are a couple photos from yesterday, the last day of this year's Citirama. Overall, the houses were very similar in style to those built last year in Glenville. They fit in well with the surrounding neighborhood.

 

Looking out over the site; new houses are at the edge with downtown in the distance.

 

The edge of the old neighborhood on the eastern side of the site.

 

Ze Hospital.

 

Hospital again.

 

Ze new houses.

 

Inside the house that was my favorite, by Civic Builders of Tremont.

 

The new (house at far left) transitions into the old on E. 111th St.

 

A rehab of an old house was going on while we were there.

 

Typical Cleveland "four square" apartment building, on E. 111th.

 

Another view of the new houses on the east side of the street.

 

This is the view from the balcony of one of the townhouses at the east end of the site. You can see downtown, of course, with the lake to the right.

 

New houses at the east end of the site fronting on MLK Boulevard, with old-school Cleveland at the end of the block on E. 116th. St. Luke's is to the right. The Rapid station is a block to the south.

Very nice B12!  Any word on progress with the rest of the site?  I remember last year that developers at CitiRama were concerned that there was a lack of developable parcels in good clusters near the festical site.  Not a problem over here!

Let's this helps sale jump a bit.  Great photos, Blink- thank's for sharing.

Let's hope this helps sales jump a bit.  Great photos, Blinker, muchas gracias.

Another great development, it seems like there units would sell out in no time.  As I read more and more threads, I become more and more jealous.  People in NYC would kill - literally - for apartments/homes like this in a nice neighborhood like this one.

eh...i dont like it. i live near there (e.116th & buckeye) and its just like all the other suburban style townhomes they are buildin on the former CMHA sites

It's good to see them actually building stuff in the neighborhood.....but I have to agree, why do they build so many suburban style projects in Cleveland (Kingsbury is a GREAT example)....Is it that hard to build brownstones or NICE rowhouses in the modern day?  I am talking up to the sidewalk, urban style housing...not the psuedo style BS that ALWAYS has to have that stupid little patch of grass in the front...I guess we will never see those built again...to bad IMO

^Well, with the census people projecting Cleveland's population to dip to 300,000 within the next 25 years, it is probably a good thing to have houses with bigger yards instead of rowhouses. This might actually attract the people who are leaving the city for bigger lots in the burbs.

Just a thought.

Musky, that sound's like a prediction in search of a means to realize it. I know you didn't predict it, but I hate it when someone comes up with a prediction of the future and starts to reorganize planning and resources in line with that prediction. NOACA does this bullshit all the time. Um, whatever happened to planning for desired outcomes?

I agree.

and I hate statistics.

How can you plan for a population drop of that proportion, that far ahead.

Anything can happen to change those models.

All it would take is one dirty bomb in Chicago, or a few more devastating natural disasters, and millions would be looking for a new place to live that could drastically change the population of cities like Cleveland (maybe for the worse, or maybe for the better).

 

But I think, based on our current situation, we will see more housing like St. Luke's, or Mill Creek, or the baby McMansions the like of those on Chester Avenue near the Clinic more often, and less housing like Church Square.

Or the population gets older (as an average) and wants communities designed more for walking and less for driving...

 

Or younger people make less money than their parents did and can't afford multiple-car households nor do they want to commute long distances...

 

Or gas prices keep trending upward, prompting people to reevaluate their lifestyles...

 

Or the region gets its act together by communities working with each other more rather against each other...

 

Lots of things can change, and subtly. Those regions which notice the changes and capitalize on them, will rise above those that use trends of the past decades to decide their future for them.

^Replace all of the "Or's" with "and/or.

 

 

 

It's good to see them actually building stuff in the neighborhood.....but I have to agree, why do they build so many suburban style projects in Cleveland (Kingsbury is a GREAT example)....Is it that hard to build brownstones or NICE rowhouses in the modern day?  I am talking up to the sidewalk, urban style housing...not the psuedo style BS that ALWAYS has to have that stupid little patch of grass in the front...I guess we will never see those built again...to bad IMO

 

thats what im sayin, in cleveland all the new development is piss poor in terms of relating to the (once) urban neighborhood and interactin with the street. whats the point of puttin a little of grass in the front too....its not like you are gettin a yard, so why not build it all the way up to the sidewalk?

 

like look at these examples:

 

 

those arent perfect but they are a lot better than what was built at st luke's. haha, kinsbury run is funny....right by kinsman

 

i guess cleveland just wants to gut whats left of it entirely to build a suburb. soon we are goin to have to look to the suburbs if we want urban

 

^Well, with the census people projecting Cleveland's population to dip to 300,000 within the next 25 years, it is probably a good thing to have houses with bigger yards instead of rowhouses. This might actually attract the people who are leaving the city for bigger lots in the burbs.

Just a thought.

 

so all those people movin into brownstones in nyc are fleein the city for bigger lots in the burbs? i dont see their population in half, its still growin.

ctown. I don't understnad your point about Kingsbury run?  Its a very important part of clevelands history and whats wrong with it being next to Kinsman??

 

Also, as JDD noted, not everyone in NYC lives in a brownstone/townhome.  Its just that row housing is the most common home style associated with NYC.  Most people live in homes like you would see in Cleveland.

MTS, Kingsbury Run is the name of a housing development off Kinsman. I believe it's in the Mount Pleasant area. When you see it, you'll think you've died and gone to Parma Heights.

MTS, Kingsbury Run is the name of a housing development off Kinsman. I believe it's in the Mount Pleasant area. When you see it, you'll think you've died and gone to Parma Heights.

 

-->>> Parma? (clutching my pearls) Dear God, the perish the thought!! 

 

I forgot about that.  I dont go up Kinsman often

I have to chime in one more time....about the "projected" population loss.  Just because somebody projects this, does this mean we have to panic and suburbanize the city?  Here's a thought, maybe if the builders were to build more middle priced housing instead of high end stuff, more people would move back into the city.  To many on this board, 300K might not seem too much to pay for housing, but that isn't doable for the average person.  I love the fact that Cleveland has a lot of nice new high end townhomes and apts being built in and around downtown....but what about the average schmo?  What about building neighborhoods like the days of the old?  As much as I hate to compare Cleveland to a burb, I have to say look to Lakewood.  That city is a pretty good example of urbanism.  Lot's of retail, groceries and DENSE housing.  There are so many neighborhoods in Cleveland that USED to be, but now they are turning into double lots with single family homes on them.  With projects like EC being done, more should be focused on Urban housing options for the middle class and single dwellers.  I would love to see some of our main thourough ways (Lorain, W25th, Euclid, Chester, St Clair....etc etc) lined with Brownstones and street level retail with housing options above (affordable ones!)  I guess I just imagine Cleveland looking similar to some of the well preserved Chicago neighborhoods (Bucktown, Northside, etc)  Cleveland obviously once looked very similar...but unfortunately the wrecking ball had its time to shine! (look at old pics of Euclid and E55th)  Kay, back on track here.....I DO love the idea of new construction in the city...but let's not suburbanize the city!

Guys, I don't think the St. Luke's houses are that suburban. A few of them have attached garages, yes, but most don't. They are built on what appear to be traditional 40' city lots. And they are pretty similar in style to what's already prevalent in the neighborhood: detached, single-family houses with a patch of front yard. We've never been a rowhouse city, for better or worse.

 

Now, the stuff you see on Chester is a different story. Those houses are built on large lots with big front yards and huge garages. They belong in Solon, period (IMO).

^I agree. I don't see what's wrong with these. They are more urban than those in the East 60's-90's and houses in Cleveland on sidestreets are traditionally built with small front yards, its like that all over the city.

I'm with Blinky!  I don't think the homes being built in the city or in its neighborhoods are suburban at all.

 

I don't feel they are over priced, hell, they are down right good homes for lack of a better word, CHEAP!  If I wasn't holding out for a high rise, there are quite a few properties I would have purchased a unit in - sight unseen!

 

Most of the refurbished homes I've seen fit well into the neighborhoods they are in and the adaptive reuse of commercial building has been nothing short of spectacular.

 

Cleveland has been a single family home for the longest, we're just getting into the multifamily, row, vertical housing lust other cities have had for years. 

 

I wouldn't want Cleveland to look like Miami, Ft. Liquordale, Phoenix, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc.  Look at those hideous highrises and premade plywood homes!  They are nothing special on the inside, but generic boxes, with a bedroom on either side of the "great room".  No character...no charm...no history.  You wont see a Belgian Village or Shaker/Moreland Court, lovely buildings on West Blvd., Lake or Clifton in Edgewater or Aparment buildings similar to what you would find on East Blvd. or amazing historical homes in Hough, in any one those towns!  To me those cities, IMHO, especially their cores, like SUBURBAN STIP MALLS!

 

Nor do I want to make comparisons to Chicago!  I am sick of our penis envy with Chicago!  We have a plethora of wonderful new homes in Ohio City, Shaker Square, Univ. Circle, Tremont, Far East (Asian Village), Detroit-Superior, central, or Slavic Village that compliment those respective neighborhoods rather than is built for "shock value" or to say, "hey, look at that (one) great building".

 

I think as more and more people see how the city has transitioned folks from NEO and other parts of the county will see we have affordable housing and stable neighborhoods.

 

Late yesterday I was in an editorial meeting with some folks at TIME, Fortune, Money and CNN and they were discussing housing and the places to "buy", "avoid" and those area's that are "not affected" (which are ONLY Los Angeles and NYC including Northern NJ) by the economy.  Cleveland was described as a market that is relatively unaffected, with a steady stream of homes being built with virtually no housing glut!  The problem they see, is Cleveland WILL NOT meet the demand of one bedroom housing in the next 4/5 years, with what they predict people RETURNING to a city that continually faces adversity, trips, but has yet to fall.

 

Now, the one thing I totally agree with you JDD941 is those God Awful Mansions in mid hough!  They totally belong in the burbs.  I might not hate them so much if they were closer together and there was less grass!

MTS, I guess I should have worded it better.  I was trying to BE Chicago...but it is sad to see the decay and decline of "neighborhoods" within the city.  Unfortunately, many old buildings, called "taxpayers", that brought buildings right up to the sidewalk and had street level restaurants, stores, etc etc....with residential above, are gone.  That kind of mix use promotes pedestrian traffic, which in turn gives a city a city feel.  I guess I just get jealous knowing we had as much density as any city but it went the way of the dinosaur...only to be replaced by poor excuse for city planning buildings with front bound parking lots or urban fields(like the project on W 117th..you need binoculars to see it beyond the vast parking area).  You see much of this on the near East side on the main thoroughways.  I cringe when I see pics from the 40's of the E 55 and Euclid/Woodland areas, Hough, and other such areas.  I know it won't be what it was....but I just just want to keep the urbaness in the city.  I hate the crap they built on Kingsbury Run, Midtown on Chester, and Chatfield in WP....

I was at Citirama, and I was not impressed. The build quality for what I saw was horrendous (including one house whose front walk slab and steps had shifted/collapsed due to a neighboring sprinkler being left on overnight!), the prices were, in most cases, outrageous, and the overall designs, while not necessarily being "suburban", were generally not suitable for the Cleveland climate - winter weather demands either an airlock entry, or some sort of structure other than a doorway opening to a cathedral-ceilinged great room. There was a grand total of ONE builder who understood this, and had modified their plan accordingly.

 

I was encouraged by the "green" houses that were there, and the technology used therein, and it felt good to talk to a supplier who reacted to the words "ground source heat pump" with something other than looking at me like I had three heads. Unfortunately, this was the exception rather than the norm, and I saw little different here than I've seen at these "builder showcases" for the last ten years or more -- and it's not just here in Cleveland that I've seen it...

Welcome aboard, JeTDoG. My greeting is delayed, as I missed your message about rail transit from earlier this month.