Quite honestly, I don't care what you have to say about the past.  You were making statements about the situation today, not ten or five years ago.  And your statements about today in OTR--south of Liberty--are flat wrong.  I walk home on Walnut about 3 nights a week, and I know what Vine was like ten years ago.  There's no comparison. 

 

It's also telling that you consider yourself one of the "middle ground" but then resort to the old canard of "where did you grow up" and "have you lived in Cincinnati as long as I have."  Those are generally the things I hear from the people who "stay blind to the possibilities (Enquirer crowd)."  Saying that you are part of  some "middle approach" doesn't make it so. 

 

And yes, I don't appreciate people trying to tell me what I do and don't know about Cincinnati seeing how I've did more for people who were forced to slum it than people who now choose to.  Because you've taken an interest in OTR in the last five years does not make you an expert on the City of Cincinnati, and not living there anymore does not make you oblivious to its status.

 

Yet you are trying to tell other people what they "do and don't know" about Cincinnati.  How about it works both ways?

Quite honestly, I don't care what you have to say about the past.  You were making statements about the situation today, not ten or five years ago.  And your statements about today in OTR--south of Liberty--are flat wrong.  I walk home on Walnut about 3 nights a week, and I know what Vine was like ten years ago.  There's no comparison. 

 

It's also telling that you consider yourself one of the "middle ground" but then resort to the old canard of "where did you grow up" and "have you lived in Cincinnati as long as I have."  Those are generally the things I hear from the people who "stay blind to the possibilities (Enquirer crowd)."  Saying that you are part of  some "middle approach" doesn't make it so. 

 

More time must pass before we declare OTR safe.  More progress must be made before we declare OTR a healthy environment that provides opportunity for people of all backgrounds.  The past is a series of factual events by definition.  You can't discount it or close your eyes and pretend that OTR looks the way it's depicted on the front of a Christian Moerlein lager.  Embracing facts is a novel concept, don't shy away from it.

 

No one is shying away from facts.  We're pointing out that you aren't using facts, you're saying "this is my perception and therefore it is fact."  That's not how it works. 

 

I also like how you can be so certain that you know the background of everyone who is commenting here.  Guess what?  I was spending time in OTR in the 1990s when I was still in school in various community activities.  But don't let the facts get in the way of your personal campaign. 

Quite honestly, I don't care what you have to say about the past.  You were making statements about the situation today, not ten or five years ago.  And your statements about today in OTR--south of Liberty--are flat wrong.  I walk home on Walnut about 3 nights a week, and I know what Vine was like ten years ago.  There's no comparison. 

 

It's also telling that you consider yourself one of the "middle ground" but then resort to the old canard of "where did you grow up" and "have you lived in Cincinnati as long as I have."  Those are generally the things I hear from the people who "stay blind to the possibilities (Enquirer crowd)."  Saying that you are part of  some "middle approach" doesn't make it so. 

 

And yes, I don't appreciate people trying to tell me what I do and don't know about Cincinnati seeing how I've did more for people who were forced to slum it than people who now choose to.  Because you've taken an interest in OTR in the last five years does not make you an expert on the City of Cincinnati, and not living there anymore does not make you oblivious to its status.

 

Yet you are trying to tell other people what they "do and don't know" about Cincinnati.  How about it works both ways?

Don't recall I did.  I do recall asking what some posters' relationships with OTR and the central city are though.  Historic context with the core is relevant to this discussion.  We are talking about changing perceptions, aren't we?

The majority of those jobs uptown and downtown are going to college grads and people sweeping floors, that´s not exactly middle ground either.

 

What you are saying now doesn't even make sense. I thought creating more jobs for people with college degrees is a good thing. Furthermore, I know people with college degrees who have only found jobs "sweeping floors" (waiting tables, more accurately), so again your point doesn't really make sense. The argument that OTR sits between our two major job centers speaks to its inherent sustainability.  How many jobs exist in Indian Hill or Amberley Village? Those areas maintain solid populations and high property values because people want to live there.  Now the trend is that more people want to live in walkable, downtown-like environments. There is a reason why there is almost nothing available to rent in OTR or Downtown.  We have passed the college try: there is big money as well as individuals plotting every day how they can add to the surging momentum in OTR.

Quite honestly, I don't care what you have to say about the past.  You were making statements about the situation today, not ten or five years ago.  And your statements about today in OTR--south of Liberty--are flat wrong.  I walk home on Walnut about 3 nights a week, and I know what Vine was like ten years ago.  There's no comparison. 

 

It's also telling that you consider yourself one of the "middle ground" but then resort to the old canard of "where did you grow up" and "have you lived in Cincinnati as long as I have."  Those are generally the things I hear from the people who "stay blind to the possibilities (Enquirer crowd)."  Saying that you are part of  some "middle approach" doesn't make it so. 

 

More time must pass before we declare OTR safe.  More progress must be made before we declare OTR a healthy environment that provides opportunity for people of all backgrounds.  The past is a series of factual events by definition.  You can't discount it or close your eyes and pretend that OTR looks the way it's depicted on the front of a Christian Moerlein lager.  Embracing facts is a novel concept, don't shy away from it.

 

No one is shying away from facts.  We're pointing out that you aren't using facts, you're saying "this is my perception and therefore it is fact."  That's not how it works. 

 

I also like how you can be so certain that you know the background of everyone who is commenting here.  Guess what?  I was spending time in OTR in the 1990s when I was still in school in various community activities.  But don't let the facts get in the way of your personal campaign. 

 

You could have said that you have a relationship with the core dating back to the 90's a while ago.  After all, I did prompt the question.

 

It's not a fact that OTR is in a transition period from one of America's worst slums to a desirable, liveable tourist destination?  I hope one day it's as great as it was bad once upon a time, it just isn't there yet; I can only say this in so many ways.  History has long told us that poverty, homelessness and almost everything else negative that could occur in an urban society was obscenely prevalent in OTR for a very long time.  It's going to take more than a couple years to undo that, and that's a fact.  As jmecklenborg alluded to, many of OTR's problems have been swept to the Westside.  That shows just how fragile OTR is.  It has to be strained and rinsed thoroughly before it can be palatable. 

The majority of those jobs uptown and downtown are going to college grads and people sweeping floors, that´s not exactly middle ground either.

 

What you are saying now doesn't even make sense. I thought creating more jobs for people with college degrees is a good thing. Furthermore, I know people with college degrees who have only found jobs "sweeping floors" (waiting tables, more accurately), so again your point doesn't really make sense. The argument that OTR sits between our two major job centers speaks to its inherent sustainability.  How many jobs exist in Indian Hill or Amberley Village? Those areas maintain solid populations and high property values because people want to live there.  Now the trend is that more people want to live in walkable, downtown-like environments. There is a reason why there is almost nothing available to rent in OTR or Downtown.  We have passed the college try: there is big money as well as individuals plotting every day how they can add to the surging momentum in OTR.

 

There is plenty of housing in OTR, just most of it is vacant, in disgusting condition, or a fire hazard.  That's why 3CDC has so much free reign.

 

People without degrees need jobs too, that's the problem with American deindustrialization when so many communities have long been at a disadvantage in obtaining higher education.  That's how you end up with drug epidemics.  Of course college grads have to pay the bills by any means, that doesn't dilute my point about access for low income individuals and families.  Cincinnati has a serious problem with job access.  Most of the job growth in the Cincinnati metro over the past 15 years has been in Butler and Warren Counties, not uptown, where the vast majority of the poor that reside in the metro live within 2 miles of.

The majority of those jobs uptown and downtown are going to college grads and people sweeping floors, that´s not exactly middle ground either.

 

What you are saying now doesn't even make sense. I thought creating more jobs for people with college degrees is a good thing. Furthermore, I know people with college degrees who have only found jobs "sweeping floors" (waiting tables, more accurately), so again your point doesn't really make sense. The argument that OTR sits between our two major job centers speaks to its inherent sustainability.  How many jobs exist in Indian Hill or Amberley Village? Those areas maintain solid populations and high property values because people want to live there.  Now the trend is that more people want to live in walkable, downtown-like environments. There is a reason why there is almost nothing available to rent in OTR or Downtown.  We have passed the college try: there is big money as well as individuals plotting every day how they can add to the surging momentum in OTR.

 

There is plenty of housing in OTR, just most of it is vacant, in disgusting condition, or a fire hazard.  That's why 3CDC has so much free reign.

 

He didn't say anything about vacant buildings -- he said, "there is almost nothing available to rent in OTR or Downtown", which is true (especially OTR). Additionally, almost every house or condo listed for sale in OTR, Prospect Hill, or Pendleton under the price of $150,000 gets snatched up immediately. The highest of the high priced condos are the only ones that have been sitting empty for years. So, "there is plenty of housing in OTR" is simply not true unless you have the desire to buy and fix up a property yourself.

 

There is plenty of housing in OTR, just most of it is vacant, in disgusting condition, or a fire hazard.  That's why 3CDC has so much free reign.

 

People without degrees need jobs too, that's the problem with American deindustrialization when so many communities have long been at a disadvantage in obtaining higher education.  That's how you end up with drug epidemics.  Of course college grads have to pay the bills by any means, that doesn't dilute my point about access for low income individuals and families.  Cincinnati has a serious problem with job access.  Most of the job growth in the Cincinnati metro over the past 15 years has been in Butler and Warren Counties, not uptown, where the vast majority of the poor that reside in the metro live within 2 miles of.

 

Lord almighty!  Your point if you had one has been made, derided, and now finally diluted to where it is completely lost.

 

I mean - Cincinnati has a problem with job access?!  Might as well be talking about the world.

 

Gotta agree with City Blights. If NoLibs are a mess, the whole neighborhood has far to go. You can't have a single street dividing a strong neighborhood and a mega-depressed one. Doesn't work that way.

 

Still, I see amazing things in present day OTR and better things to come.

Wow I, a) Didn't know I started a thread :) and b) didn't think it would go like this.

 

Anyways, so does anyone think that eventually the neighborhood will get really pricey in terms of buying a place there?

Wow I, a) Didn't know I started a thread :) and b) didn't think it would go like this.

 

Anyways, so does anyone think that eventually the neighborhood will get really pricey in terms of buying a place there?

 

I think it will get like Mt. Adams.

Condos are already selling from $150-300,000 and single family homes are selling for $300-700,000.  That seems pretty pricey to me!!

OTR is far from wholly revitalized. Is anyone saying otherwise? The point is perceptions are changing because reality is changing. What is significant is that people who do not "take a blind eye in the spirit of optimism" are seeing that OTR's revitalization is real. It is slow but all real progress is.

Wow I, a) Didn't know I started a thread :) and b) didn't think it would go like this.

 

Anyways, so does anyone think that eventually the neighborhood will get really pricey in terms of buying a place there?

 

I think it will get like Mt. Adams.

 

I'm thinking/hoping Wicker Park in Chicago.  Of course, LRT through the existing ROW under the Parkway is what draws me to those economic possibilities.  I can't see saturation in the basin without streetcars serving Northside through the West End or LRT.

 

The lack of materialized rehabs are a major component to the high price tags right now in OTR.  Lots north of Liberty can still be had for a song, and NW of the Parkway and Liberty is even cheaper to invest in for now.  Brighton archictecture is fantastic, someone is going to realize the potential for a "Quarter district" there and make a killing being in such an optimal location.  Being on the Parkway and being able to slide past uptown instead of through it will be attractive to a lot of people.

Gotta agree with City Blights. If NoLibs are a mess, the whole neighborhood has far to go. You can't have a single street dividing a strong neighborhood and a mega-depressed one. Doesn't work that way.

 

Still, I see amazing things in present day OTR and better things to come.

 

I think that things are improving and obviously there is a long way to go.  I live there now and have been looking to buy a place and rehab it (north of Liberty).  It's a big task, but it would be exciting.

 

Re: a single street separating neighborhoods--not sure I can agree with your point there.  There are plenty of examples in the Cincy suburbs where you cross a street and it's completely different.  But that's really academic. 

Wow I, a) Didn't know I started a thread :) and b) didn't think it would go like this.

 

Anyways, so does anyone think that eventually the neighborhood will get really pricey in terms of buying a place there?

 

I think it will get like Mt. Adams.

 

I'm thinking/hoping Wicker Park in Chicago.  Of course, LRT through the existing ROW under the Parkway is what draws me to those economic possibilities.  I can't see saturation in the basin without streetcars serving Northside through the West End or LRT.

 

The lack of materialized rehabs are a major component to the high price tags right now in OTR.  Lots north of Liberty can still be had for a song, and NW of the Parkway and Liberty is even cheaper to invest in for now.  Brighton archictecture is fantastic, someone is going to realize the potential for a "Quarter district" there and make a killing being in such an optimal location.  Being on the Parkway and being able to slide past uptown instead of through it will be attractive to a lot of people.

 

Agree with you on all of this. 

 

 

I think that things are improving and obviously there is a long way to go.  I live there now and have been looking to buy a place and rehab it (north of Liberty).  It's a big task, but it would be exciting.

 

Re: a single street separating neighborhoods--not sure I can agree with your point there.  There are plenty of examples in the Cincy suburbs where you cross a street and it's completely different.  But that's really academic. 

 

The drastic change between Wyoming and Lockland immediately comes to mind...

 

 

I think that things are improving and obviously there is a long way to go.  I live there now and have been looking to buy a place and rehab it (north of Liberty).  It's a big task, but it would be exciting.

 

Re: a single street separating neighborhoods--not sure I can agree with your point there.  There are plenty of examples in the Cincy suburbs where you cross a street and it's completely different.  But that's really academic. 

 

The drastic change between Wyoming and Lockland immediately comes to mind...

Funny, I was thinking of the same thing and how even that change is not so drastic because Lockland is not exactly at NoLibs-level crime. Regardless, it is apples and oranges because municipal and neighborhood boundaries are very different. The small size of the rehabbed part of OTR is also relevant.

 

Everyone seems to agree that even southern OTR has a long way to go. The point is that that's not just for reaching its potential, but also for being a stable and thriving neighborhood. That doesn't mean it's not a good place to live, nor that it's a frightening place to visit, but that it takes a certain level of tolerance for -- I don't know, shabby-ness? -- to fully embrace.

 

I think southern OTR is probably around Northside's level in terms of perception of safety.

I was actually thinking of Wyoming, as well.  It is significantly different than many of the places around it--including Lincoln Heights and Lockland.

If Wyoming physically bordered Lincoln Heights, the comparison would be a little better. Still, municipal boundaries are different.

More appropriate would probably be East Walnut Hills/Evanston.

Agreed. And IMO that illustrates my point, because while East Walnut Hills is nice, its immediate neighbors detract significantly from its prominence.

About the changing perceptions of OTR: what I think we're seeing are the seeds of changing perceptions. Once the Washington Park area really comes online in the next couple years and redevelopment along Liberty and between Main and Vine fills in - then, and only then, will there be a seachange in perception. This is all predicated on the continued decrease in crime too.

 

Until then, all positive development will be dogged by lingering "concerns about crime in that area" as expertly exhibited by Local 12's Cammy Dierking in this news clip about City Home selling out (toward the end with 50 seconds left in the clip): http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/New-Townhouses-in-OTR-Are-Sold-Out-Before-Finished/EegvpyPlyEaxmkiCsh2oPA.cspx

Agreed. And IMO that illustrates my point, because while East Walnut Hills is nice, its immediate neighbors detract significantly from its prominence.

 

Don't feel too bad for East Walnut Hills, the name was conceived to divide the Walnut Hills area along racial lines.

I agree with others who have implied OTR has reached the point where positive economic development will almost certainly continue and spread. This is different from suggesting that crime or perceptions of it are as low as they need to be; that most stable historic structures have been rehabilitated; that vacant buildings and lots have been reduced to an acceptable level; or even that the continued economic development will ultimately make OTR into the kind of community you want.

 

What has happened in the last 10 years is a sea change from the previous 50 years of destruction, neglect, and virtual denial that OTR even exists.  A renewed Washington park, new K-12 SCPA, $100 million rehab of music hall, Findlay market full of vendors, hundreds of millions in property development, a streetcar circulator running right up the spine of the neighborhood,... What a fantastical wish list. This can't be stopped any longer. It's starting to generate its own fuel and the pace of development over the next ten years will likely far outstrip that over the last ten.

 

It's a great time for the form based codes development that's getting to the community level this spring.

>t's starting to generate its own fuel and the pace of development over the next ten years will likely far outstrip that over the last ten.

 

Most of what has happened has happened in the past five years.  The Gateway Condo/garage was the first project back in 03-04, but it was a lonely outpost for several years, without many sales and without street-level retail. 

If Wyoming physically bordered Lincoln Heights, the comparison would be a little better. Still, municipal boundaries are different.

 

Um....Wyoming does physically border Lincoln Heights, no?  Very confused by what you mean there.

^ Technically it does, but there are no streets that touch between the two.  A creek, some railroad tracks and some wooded land is along the border. 

 

I think the point was you couldn't just cross a street like liberty and go from Wyoming to Lincoln Heights.

Sorry, I should have checked the map before I said that. But yeah I knew you couldn't just go from Wyoming to Lincoln Heights on the street network, so for all intents and purposes, they don't really border. Not only can you not go on the street network, but the Mill Creek is in the way as well as a bunch of industrial/railroad-related infrastructure. No one crosses that border, ever.

 

Believe it or not, there is also a lower-income part of Wyoming near the Lockland border. It's not as abrupt a transition as you might imagine.

 

One major reason municipal boundaries are different from neighborhood boundaries is the school district differential. Between Lockland and Wyoming, this is a very salient issue. If suddenly a couple blocks of Lockland were in the Wyoming school district, those blocks would clean up quickly. Obviously, there's no such difference between Gateway Q and NoLibs.

About the changing perceptions of OTR: what I think we're seeing are the seeds of changing perceptions. Once the Washington Park area really comes online in the next couple years and redevelopment along Liberty and between Main and Vine fills in - then, and only then, will there be a seachange in perception. This is all predicated on the continued decrease in crime too.

 

Until then, all positive development will be dogged by lingering "concerns about crime in that area" as expertly exhibited by Local 12's Cammy Dierking in this news clip about City Home selling out (toward the end with 50 seconds left in the clip): http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/New-Townhouses-in-OTR-Are-Sold-Out-Before-Finished/EegvpyPlyEaxmkiCsh2oPA.cspx

 

The problem is, I don't think Cincinnati media will ever stop adding the little "concerns about crime in that area" comments to the end of positive stories about OTR. I saw recently that Channel 12 has a series of commercials with a "That's So Cincinnati" theme, which reminded me a lot of those "S#!+ Cincinnatians Say" YouTube videos -- full of stereotypes about the west side, east side, and downtown.

^ ya-  I think if an entire year went by with no murders, it would still be considered a "dangerous" area by the media.  They are taking the long view (backwards).  For 40 years it was dangerous.  3 years of GREAT progress is wonderful, but in their eyes, it's still dangerous.  That is a very expected thought for their audience (primarily suburbanites).

 

I don't get why murder is considered the bellwether of dangerousness. In Cincinnati, as in most places, you almost never get murdered if you are not knowingly cavorting with murderers and people in the drug trade, etc. The same is not true of getting jumped or being the victim of an armed robbery, which would be better danger indicators for the general public.

 

BTW, we should all be thankful that Cincinnati has hardly any carjackings. Having the ability to drive through any neighborhood at any time of day or night and feel completely safe is not a luxury shared in all cities.

I don't get why murder is considered the bellwether of dangerousness. In Cincinnati, as in most places, you almost never get murdered if you are not knowingly cavorting with murderers and people in the drug trade, etc. The same is not true of getting jumped or being the victim of an armed robbery, which would be better danger indicators for the general public.

 

BTW, we should all be thankful that Cincinnati has hardly any carjackings. Having the ability to drive through any neighborhood at any time of day or night and feel completely safe is not a luxury shared in all cities.

 

I was almost carjacked in Avondale some years back.  It definitely happens, especially in Avondale, Bond Hill and on the Westside.  You're right though, it's not as prevalent as it could be, or even as pronounced as in Cleveland.  Still too many armed robberies though in Cincinnati.  I agree with what you're saying about homicide, if we're judging safety mostly based on a decrease in slayings, we've got a long way to go.

OTR is really rough these days: http://overtherhine.wordpress.com/2012/03/25/friday-on-vine-in-otr/

 

Yesterday:

 

 

I have seen that Ferrari down there more than once. 

So that's where I parked it...

I don't get why murder is considered the bellwether of dangerousness. In Cincinnati, as in most places, you almost never get murdered if you are not knowingly cavorting with murderers and people in the drug trade, etc. The same is not true of getting jumped or being the victim of an armed robbery, which would be better danger indicators for the general public.

 

BTW, we should all be thankful that Cincinnati has hardly any carjackings. Having the ability to drive through any neighborhood at any time of day or night and feel completely safe is not a luxury shared in all cities.

 

I agree... that's why I haven't been bragging about the "no murders in the past 6 months" metric. (No offense to those who have been.)

I don't get why murder is considered the bellwether of dangerousness. In Cincinnati, as in most places, you almost never get murdered if you are not knowingly cavorting with murderers and people in the drug trade, etc. The same is not true of getting jumped or being the victim of an armed robbery, which would be better danger indicators for the general public.

 

BTW, we should all be thankful that Cincinnati has hardly any carjackings. Having the ability to drive through any neighborhood at any time of day or night and feel completely safe is not a luxury shared in all cities.

 

I agree... that's why I haven't been bragging about the "no murders in the past 6 months" metric. (No offense to those who have been.)

 

It'd be pathetic to brag about a dearth of homicides but when the perception to some is "most dangerous neighborhood in the country" or a neighborhood rife with killings - it's worth sharing.

Not sure of the best place to put this, so I'll just put this here:

 

A few days ago I started a twitter account called @OTRApartments that automatically tweets new apartments listed for rent in OTR on Craig's List. I mostly just did this for my own personal reference, to keep track of what was becoming available. Thanks to people spreading the word, the account now has about 40 followers in just a few days. Pretty good for something I didn't really intend to promote. And it's one more check mark in the "there's high demand for living downtown" column.

If you can it would be interesting to see how followers grow over time. Great idea!

A serious OTR lovefest at the Enquirer:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120414/BIZ/304150025/Over-Rhine-s-transformation-far-from-over?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

 

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

^^^ they really hit the nail on the head this time. I was in 1215 last night when the posted the article and was sitting at the bar reading it....kind of a surreal moment.

 

Maybe they are finally starting to realize that actually supporting the good things that are happening in this city could have a tremendous impact on their revenue?

Check out the comments section if you want to see some creepiness and a man of true patience.

My one complaint about that article is the pictures included. Why wouldn't they show more of 3CDC's finished work? The article does a good job of showing off the neighborhood and its progress, but the pictures really don't. Missed opportunity.

 

Some people sort of get 'stuck' at a moment in time. They continue to live, but some decisive experience from their past dominates their view of the world no matter how long they live. I have an old friend who talks about things that happened in the early 90s as if they were last month. It will always be 1992 for him. He is constantly trying to recreate the dynamic of the early 90s in every way he can. To suggest how things have changed sends him into anxious handwringing as he describes things after the early 90s in apocalyptic terms.  It is these sorts of people who are committed to attacking otr and cincinnati. They had some negative formative experience in otr or cincinnati and will never be able to get past it. Pity and them ignore them as they live out the rest of their sad existences.

A serious OTR lovefest at the Enquirer:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120414/BIZ/304150025/Over-Rhine-s-transformation-far-from-over?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

 

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

 

I couldn't believe it when I read it this morning.  I saw it on my phone and read the title and figured it would be a bashfest.  I was wrong.

It's all about the authors.  As soon as i read the first two paragraphs i guessed that it would be a Baverman article.  It was.  Also, Enquirer Publisher Margaret Buchanan is on the Board of 3CDC. 

 

If Hortsman would have written it, it would have been another over the top hit piece about how ONLY 150 units have been rehabbed/built in over 6 YEARS of development and there are STILL, after $200+ million dollars of investment, nearly 400 vacant buildings! And how he walked around all of OTR in only 6 minutes at 14 mph.

It's all about the authors.  As soon as i read the first two paragraphs i guessed that it would be a Baverman article.  It was.

 

Baverman does quality work.

The comments are overwhelmingly positive on this one, and it's the same several people that are arguing, incessantly replying on each post (COAST?)

 

To pass along something more positive and thought provoking, read below....this is one of my favorites of the day. To the guy that wrote this: you are spot on and I will buy you a drink at Neons or one of the other fantastic watering holes in OTR asap

 

"I think some suburbanites do not want to admit the success of OTR. They would rather believe the city and especially OTR are an urban armpit. The rule of the past was for happiness and prosperity you need to buy your house with the white picket fence in the suburbs. But today with the proliferation of suburban slums, declining property values, declining schools, empty strip malls, gas prices, traffic jams and more, many are beginning to see the benefits of living in the urban core, while they are stuck in the burbs. They want to hate the Streetcar, Washington Park, SCPA, The Banks, The Casino, etc, and scream about crime and getting shot because they hold on to the ideals of the past and are stuck living in them, both physically and mentally. What the naysayers in the suburbs need to understand is that there is no “sub” without the “urban”. With the success of the City and specifically the Central Business District, including OTR, the entire region will succeed and prosper which will help restore the suburbs."

I don't get why murder is considered the bellwether of dangerousness. In Cincinnati, as in most places, you almost never get murdered if you are not knowingly cavorting with murderers and people in the drug trade, etc. The same is not true of getting jumped or being the victim of an armed robbery, which would be better danger indicators for the general public.

 

BTW, we should all be thankful that Cincinnati has hardly any carjackings. Having the ability to drive through any neighborhood at any time of day or night and feel completely safe is not a luxury shared in all cities.

 

I agree... that's why I haven't been bragging about the "no murders in the past 6 months" metric. (No offense to those who have been.)

 

It'd be pathetic to brag about a dearth of homicides but when the perception to some is "most dangerous neighborhood in the country" or a neighborhood rife with killings - it's worth sharing.

 

I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that it is NOT normal human behavior to kill people, in ANY community. Aside from crimes of passion, or war. Neighborhoods where people are murdered regularly are the sign of incredibly distressing social or economic circumstances. We should not ever allow parts of our own cities to get this way.