Update: Apparently these were actual employees of Peaslee and OTRCH leading what was just supposed to be an OTR tour, but which turned in to "which buildings did 3CDC throw people out of on which street" tour.

 

I think I saw this tour today. I really wish they (OTRCH) could do a better job at expelling the zealots in their midst.

 

Also, to mark the anniversary of Occupy Wall Street or whatever, Josh Spring & Co. held some sort of protest in front of 3CDC in which they covered the sidewalk with slogans in chalk, moved construction tape and knocked over flower pots.

 

Ridiculous that these people are portrayed as respectable citizens.

 

 

Seems relevant to OTR's evolution and the debate between homeless advocates and new businesses a& residents.

 

Gentrificationphobia

 

By Matthew Yglesias | Posted Monday, Oct. 8, 2012, at 3:16 PM ET

 

Beth Scott reporting on a recent community forum on development here in DC unearths an unusually explicit statement of a disturbing line of thought:

 

Sometimes objections have nothing to do with the development itself, but fears of the development's impact on the neighborhood. Panelist Charles Wilson, an Anacostia resident, spoke about his experiences with neighbors who were worried that new development would lead to increasing home values which would drive them out of the area.

Gentrification is sometimes seen as the opposite of blockbusting.  Sadly, it almost is because the economic classes of the United States in its metropolitan areas are disproportionate one way or another along the lines of racial makeup. 

Further in the article above is the following sentence: 

 

"The fact that these fears exist and have some rational basis is a great example of the deep problems induced by undersupply of urban housing."

 

I totally agree.  We need so many more apartments in OTR.  Prices for apartments are now going up because of lack of supply.

OTR is 2-3 sq mi (depending on which boundaries are being used) and has 7,000 residents; a big improvement from 4,000 something, but yes it definitely is under-served in housing. The downtown neighborhood I live in, Loring Park, used to be a blemish on Downtown, but it has made big strides. It's just over .5 sq mi and has 7,500 residents. Not sure why developers would be scared to build too many new apartments, since as you an see a similarly sized neighborhood that's well-connected to a downtown's main core is able to support many more and is still adding more new residents. I understand that there's a lot of intact and long abandoned buildings which come with problems that can be a big obstacle for rehabbing efforts, but I see some parking lots too (thankfully not too many) where some relatively dense apartments could be built.

^- Half the problem is the complexity of rehabbing very large buildings that in some cases have sat 40-50 years abandoned, the other half is simply how conservative Cincinnatians are - much more risk averse than many other cities (its a good and a bad thing though, and possibly its a reason why Cincy is doing well in the downturn).

Overheard on Main Street from an older woman this weekend: "This is all new to me, I'm like a kid in a candy store."

Last week I was in a bar in Blue Ash randomly talking to a 50 something guy at the bar. He was a "typical" baby boomer, Cincinnitian that has always lived in the burbs with pretty strong oerceptions of downtown and OTR that have been formed over the years. His 25 year old son now rents in CBD and he wants to buy in OTR.  The dad was skeptical but has been down there more often in recent months (sounds like more times in the last few months than his entire life) and he is amazed at the transformation.  Couldn't stop talking about how great OTR is and that many of his generation who are retiring soon will consider moving downtown.  He said its a total 180 from what he thought.

 

A month ago, I was on the west side and a 60 something true blood, blue collar conservative westsider told me he went to Morlein.  He was "amazed" that he felt so safe and was expecting much worse.  He would go back and give some other places a try (probably not OTR just yet).  While this particular story is not directly OTR related, it is  a clear example of the change in perception from many native Cincinnatians.

 

As someone that moved to Cincy in 08, I was shocked at the negative perceptions so many had of their very own city.  I clearly was not here in the 70s/80s/90s but I had visited enough over the last 15 years to know that while there have been challenges, it was pretty unwarranted.  Maybe I am wrong there but in 08 I used to walk around downtown and really question why so many people thougth it was a warzone. In any event , perspetions are clearly chaninging even from the most unlikely citizens and it is great to see.

As someone that moved to Cincy in 08, I was shocked at the negative perceptions so many had of their very own city.  I clearly was not here in the 70s/80s/90s but I had visited enough over the last 15 years to know that while there have been challenges, it was pretty unwarranted.  Maybe I am wrong there but in 08 I used to walk around downtown and really question why so many people thougth it was a warzone. In any event , perspetions are clearly chaninging even from the most unlikely citizens and it is great to see.

 

Living in Cincy between 2002 and 2007 and coming back to visit family periodically since then I couldn't agree more.  Attitudes were even more bitter and bad immediately after the riots, by 09 or so based on my observation attitudes were really beginning to change.  Its been a fun thing to watch at a distance where the changes are even more noticeable every time you come back.  Its still a long hard road, but it feels like the first major hump has been crossed.

It's television, people.  People don't trust their own observations.  They don't want to believe that their favorite anchor person is lying to them. 

Tanya ORourke does THE Over the Rhine

Do people really call it The oTR?

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_central_cincinnati/over_the_rhine/Over-The-Rhine-A-tale-of-two-neighborhoods

It's television, people.  People don't trust their own observations.  They don't want to believe that their favorite anchor person is lying to them. 

 

Have not watched local news, except an occasional matter, since the late 80's. Local news is drilled down to the lowest IQ possible.

I haven't watched more than 10 hours of TV per year since 1996.  When I do watch it, it's a total shock to the system. 

I thought the O'Rourke article was good.

Tanya ORourke does THE Over the Rhine

Do people really call it The oTR?

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_central_cincinnati/over_the_rhine/Over-The-Rhine-A-tale-of-two-neighborhoods

 

jeezle, did anyone read the comments on that article?  A lot of hatred on the comments section of channel 9 articles. 

9 commenters are totally wack. They make the Fishwarp's look sage.

I feel sorry for the ignorance and hatred of some of these commenters and sorry that I live in the suburbs with people just like them.

We'll never be able to get rid of the wacko haters in this town, but we'll just have to be satisfied with proving them wrong over and over again as the neighborhood continues to improve.  For example...I just saw that they're opening a new restaurant on Republic St!  That's serious progress for that street.

 

Here's the press release:

"New Restaurant Coming to Over-the-Rhine’s Republic Street

 

Jose Salazar to create farm-inspired “new American” dishes in namesake establishment

 

CINCINNATI (Friday, July 26, 2013) – Salazar will open this fall at 14th & Republic in the Nicolay Building.

 

Republic Street runs north-south between Vine and Race streets in Over-the-Rhine. Marked by old-growth trees and narrow sidewalks, it is nestled between the Vine Street entertainment district and the newly-renovated Washington Park. And it will soon welcome a new corner restaurant among its small-scale brick structures.

 

Salazar, the namesake of its chef/owner Jose Salazar, will serve farm-inspired new American dishes in a 45-seat “modern brasserie”. This count includes a 13-seat bar in the center of the 1,200 square foot space. Salazar’s dishes will range in price from $5 small bites to $25 grilled ribeye steaks. Entrees will include such items as sweet corn ravioli with pole beans, parmesan, heirloom tomatoes and purslane, or duck leg rillette, pickled onions, jalapeno jam and toasted blue oven bread.  A simple burger will also grace the menu for around $16.

 

If these dishes sound delectable, it may be due to Jose Salazar’s impressive background. He’s no stranger in the kitchen, and world-renowned kitchens at that. After moving to New York with his Columbian parents at a very young age, Salazar worked as a bartender/server for years before attending the New York Restaurant School to become a chef. He then worked for Jean-Georges Vongerichten at his New York restaurant, Jean-Georges, and for Geoffrey Zakarian at his New York restaurant, Town, before Zakarian went on to Food Network fame on “Chopped” and “The Next Iron Chef”. Salazar then worked for Thomas Keller at his New York restaurant, Per Se, which is where he says he learned the most.

 

“Working with Chef Thomas Keller gave me the confidence to start putting out feelers for executive chef positions,” says Salazar. When the call came from The Palace Restaurant at The Cincinnatian in 2008, Salazar’s wife had just given birth to their baby boy and the small family was ready for a move to the more cost-effective Midwest. Salazar decided to give Cincinnati a try.

 

Lucky for us, Salazar’s next move is to open his own restaurant. Construction on Salazar has already begun, and the restaurant/bar will open this fall. Hours of operation will be Monday through Thursday from 5:30 to 10:30 and Friday and Saturday from 5:30 to 11:00. Salazar hopes to open for lunch after a couple months in operation.

 

3CDC and the Northpointe Group have been developing the Nicolay Building into ten for-sale condominiums and a 1,200 SF street-level commercial space. The $2.3 million project is part of the fifth phase of development in Over-the-Rhine. More information on the Nicolay condominiums can be found at www.otrliving.com. "

^Since this is the "Changing Perceptions of Over-the-Rhine" thread, I think it is appropriate to point out this is just one block north of where Tim Thomas was killed in 2001.

Remember, Mark Miller and COAST have been caught red handed creating multiple "personalities" for the sole purpose of posting criticisms of the city on enquirer, wcpo and other websites.

 

 

A few days ago I started a twitter account called @OTRApartments that automatically tweets new apartments listed for rent in OTR on Craig's List. I mostly just did this for my own personal reference, to keep track of what was becoming available. Thanks to people spreading the word, the account now has about 40 followers in just a few days. Pretty good for something I didn't really intend to promote.

 

This account is up to 303 followers now.

 

I'm still hearing from friends trying to move to OTR that it's nearly impossible to find an apartment. People who actually get a chance to tour an apartment are putting down their security deposit on the spot. New apartments can't become available soon enough.

My friend's coworker put down a deposit on an apartment on Jackson Street before even seeing it to make sure he got it. They really are going fast. Mercer Commons should help ease that a little bit.

This is worth a read:

 

http://www.satellitemagazine.ca/2013/09/over-the-rhine/

 

...

Despite my intimate familiarity with the gentrification process, however, when I visit my hometown of Cincinnati I’m always taken aback by the extremes of race and class on display in one of the city’s fastest-changing neighborhoods, Over-the-Rhine. Located directly adjacent to the city’s central business district, OTR, as it is often called, offers a somewhat surreal refresher in the architectural, economic, and racial history of American cities. On one block, rows of boarded-up buildings abut a tidy, suburban-style townhouse serving homeless veterans, while a renovated single-family row house a few streets away is on offer for $650,000. Ground-level retail in the storefronts of ornate nineteenth-century structures ranges from a men’s clothing store covered with jaunty hand-painted signs advertising check-cashing services to a design shop selling $125 tote bags.

...

I would agree this point: "Several Cincinnatians I spoke to who don’t follow politics told me that they were unaware that there was any controversy surrounding Over-the-Rhine’s redevelopment at all." However, I would say the average Cincinnati resident still doesn't have a positive view of the neighborhood and still views it as dangerous. And it will probably be a few decades before that is completely eliminated.

 

And I'm not sure how much the "OTR People's Movement"/anti-3CDC crowd has quieted down. There were at least a dozen protestors when Washington Park re-opened.

And I'm not sure how much the "OTR People's Movement"/anti-3CDC crowd has quieted down. There were at least a dozen protestors when Washington Park re-opened.

 

And they looked foolish doing so. It seems like they are picking their battles for now.

 

And I'm not sure how much the "OTR People's Movement"/anti-3CDC crowd has quieted down. There were at least a dozen protestors when Washington Park re-opened.

 

It doesn't help when UrbanCincy demonizes events like Dinner En Blanc being held in Washington Park.  If we want to change the perceptions of OTR, we should be encouraging events like that, so that they can counter balance the People's Movement protests and what not.

 

BTW I definitely don't agree it will take decades for perceptions to change among the general population...

I think there will be a tipping point in which people stop associating OTR with crime. Maybe in 10 years or so it will happen (I would predict 7-10 years). As the oldest people with fixed opinions die, younger people grow up knowing OTR to be cool instead of dangerous, and more people visit there and change their perceptions, it will happen sooner than you may think.

 

It doesn't help when UrbanCincy demonizes events like Dinner En Blanc being held in Washington Park.  If we want to change the perceptions of OTR, we should be encouraging events like that, so that they can counter balance the People's Movement protests and what not.

 

BTW I definitely don't agree it will take decades for perceptions to change among the general population...

 

that UrbanCincy editorial was ridiculous. Factually incorrect, under-researched, and horribly judgmental.  (though I do agree that it would be nice if DeB asked attendees to give to non-profits located by the venues, like OTRCH or Bethel Union).  It's not that issues of gentrification aren't valid questions - they totally are.  But editorial screeds like this aren't helpful at all.

 

My parents, who have lived in West Chester for over three decades, have been with us to Japp's and also many OTR restaurants, and they're now considering looking at living downtown when they no longer want to have a house with stairs in it, so people's perceptions are absolutely beginning to change very quickly.

 

As for protestors, my favorite protestor at the Washington Park re-opening was the older white lady with a sign saying "the reWHITEalization of Washington Park".  wonder if she's ever been back to see that Washington Park still has plenty of black folks who enjoy the park.

 

And I'm not sure how much the "OTR People's Movement"/anti-3CDC crowd has quieted down. There were at least a dozen protestors when Washington Park re-opened.

 

It doesn't help when UrbanCincy demonizes events like Dinner En Blanc being held in Washington Park.  If we want to change the perceptions of OTR, we should be encouraging events like that, so that they can counter balance the People's Movement protests and what not.

 

UrbanCincy was spot-on with that. I saw that event as distasteful before I even read all the disgusting details.

BTW I definitely don't agree it will take decades for perceptions to change among the general population...

 

We are probably ~10 years away from the majority of Cincinnatians having a positive view of downtown & OTR. But I bet there is a certain percentage of people that will keep on hating for the rest of their lives. The changes in OTR are obvious to anyone who takes the time to visit and see it in person. But some of the haters have not been downtown in years or decades (maybe they've driven through to go to a Red's game). Whenever the Enquirer or WCPO publishes something positive about the changes taking place in OTR, there are still a ton of comments basically saying that it's a lie.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, though. I don't think we need to win over everyone in order for the urban core to be successful and popular. And when some of these people's own kids move to OTR (or Walnut Hills, or Northside, etc.), maybe they'll start to get the message that good things are happening in those neighborhoods.

UrbanCincy was spot-on with that. I saw that event as distasteful before I even read all the disgusting details.

 

how is it any more "distasteful" or "disgusting" than, say, someone renting part of the park out for a wedding?

Did you read the UrbanCincy piece?

LOL, yeah, UrbanCincy should be banned from the internet & all it's writers flogged for that Diner en Blanc post.

I swear, all the interesting articles on that site & THAT one gets 9M posts...

Haters won't believe OTR proponents. they will just think they are all kool aid drinking loons & hipsters and blah blah

If some more chains like Subway move in, maybe it will legitimize the place.

Apple PC sales didn't really take off till IBM entered the PC market & subsequently "legitimized" it.

Did you read the UrbanCincy piece?

 

Yes, I did. As I mentioned above, I found it to be under-researched, factually incorrect, and inflammatory.

 

There's a real discussion to be had on gentrification at OTR, but that article isn't a good start.

UrbanCincy was spot-on with that. I saw that event as distasteful before I even read all the disgusting details.

 

how is it any more "distasteful" or "disgusting" than, say, someone renting part of the park out for a wedding?

 

I just read the opinion written by Paige Mallot, and I disagree with her thoughts and statements.

First off, the money belongs to the individuals who can choose to spend it however they wish and in this case to the event organizers.

The attacks about white people wearing white is beyond pathetic (and in secrecy please just stop, it is in the open).

The writer assumes it should be a charitable event, it isn't so knock if off.

And she pretty much says this park isn't for you if you are not an urban dweller because Suburban people don't interact in a certain way.

Just really weird.

 

An event like this isn't for me, loading up my car, driving to the rally point, then hoping on a bus, then going to the destination, yeah that

is too much work................but if others want to do this, God Bless and have fun.

 

The photos of the event are all you need to get that place rented out for weddings. It looked great.

 

Well said

Well I'm glad somebody out there had the guts to make some enemies over this frivolous event.  For whatever reason a certain segment of the white population continues to be fascinated by the imagined culture of 19th and early 20th century France and use its appropriation as cultural capital. 

 

The whole thing is like...

 

White, white, white...in case you didn't get it, WHITE! And look, we're almost all white. See that? And we're asserting our WHITE presence in this neighborhood. See? We can do that now, because this park has been made nice for us. White, white, WHIIIIITE!!!

 

The fact that it is destined to be interpreted that way means holding the event there was insensitive. The symbolism is too strong to ignore.

Let's please keep this conversation civil. Please.

Well perhaps a lot of people here were either too young or didn't live here back when footage of the police firing at crowds in Washington Park was rerun over and over again by the local media (0:50):

 

...or to simply have lived through the decades of the park being used as a flashpoint for all sorts of class controversies.  Like the time when Jerry Springer (after he was mayor, but before his talk show) acted like he was homeless for a few days and and had a camera crew follow him around.  Then there's the whole matter of Buddy Gray, who was *the* face of OTR in the media for the decade or more preceding his death. 

And moving past all these things is a bad thing why?  I have no real interest in attending an event like DeB but I'm happy it exists to show people parts of the city they might otherwise not encounter. 

As for protestors, my favorite protestor at the Washington Park re-opening was the older white lady with a sign saying "the reWHITEalization of Washington Park".  wonder if she's ever been back to see that Washington Park still has plenty of black folks who enjoy the park.

 

It would have been hilarious if she showed up with that sign to protest DEB.

Does anyone know if there was any controversy in any of the other U.S. or world cities that this event was held in? Or is it only in Cincinnati where a flash mob of foodies dressed in all white and converge at a secret destination is taken to have racial or insensitive overtones. I think to some extent people are projecting their own insecurities about the gentrification of OTR onto this event. IIRC, There wasn't this controversy last year.

This type of conversation is exactly what sometimes makes me want to leave this city and never look back.  Judgement everywhere you turn, it seems.  Just curious, are any of the posters on this page OTR residents? Any of you African Americans? 

LOL, yeah, UrbanCincy should be banned from the internet & all it's writers flogged for that Diner en Blanc post.

I swear, all the interesting articles on that site & THAT one gets 9M posts...

 

I had a problem with the editorial.  Mostly because (as Jen Kessler pointed out in the comments) there were figures being thrown out as authoritative and accurate, but it doesn't look like it was based on research.

 

I like Paige, I like Randy, I like John Yung, I like Travis (and I think I follow them all on Twitter).  But I expect more out of Urban Cincy, which seems to have positioned itself as a legitimate news source (see: partnership with Business Courier).  Let me put it this way:  If the Enquirer published an editorial like that, I think this board would be in an uproar.  I'm not going to give it a free pass just because it was on Urban Cincy. 

My personal favorite thing about the editorial was that it presented DeB as being a white people thing when multiple people who'd actually gone said that there was a substantial minority presence. Don't let facts get in the way of a pre-established narrative, guys!

 

Anyway, OTR has been changing tremendously and maybe the uproar comes from the fact that DeB symbolized that change to people. There's a lot of anxieties that gentrification understandably provokes and if it weren't DeB that provoked an outrage like this, it'd be something else. A more productive use of everyone's time and energy would be to support more affordable housing in OTR. if DeB really pissed you off, make a donation to OTRCH.

 

final thought: parks are not just for residents of an individual neighborhood; they're for the entire city. It's not realistic to look at them differently.

I really don't understand the controversy about Paige's editorial and and surprised that it has now spilled over from UrbanCincy to UrbanOhio. Why can't people agree to disagree? Paige basically laid out several problems that she had with the event, which is her opinion. Either you agree or you disagree. But some people are acting like this event is untouchable and shall not be criticized! And for publishing this editorial, UrbanCincy has sunk to the depths of the Enquirer's editorial page and 700 WLW!!!

 

Some people are even saying that Paige shouldn't criticize this event because she didn't attend. Well, in that case, no one on this forum should be allowed to criticize the architecture of the Dunnhumby Centre or Mercer Commons, because you don't own them and it's none of your business.

 

I'm not saying I agree with all of the points that Paige made. Her article does not necessarily represent the official view of UrbanCincy or the other contributors.

 

Does anyone know if there was any controversy in any of the other U.S. or world cities that this event was held in? Or is it only in Cincinnati where a flash mob of foodies dressed in all white and converge at a secret destination is taken to have racial or insensitive overtones. I think to some extent people are projecting their own insecurities about the gentrification of OTR onto this event. IIRC, There wasn't this controversy last year.

 

No, it's not just Cincinnati. If you search for articles relating to other cities where DEB was held, you'll see the exact same arguments from both sides that are being made about Cincinnati's event.

 

This type of conversation is exactly what sometimes makes me want to leave this city and never look back.  Judgement everywhere you turn, it seems.  Just curious, are any of the posters on this page OTR residents? Any of you African Americans? 

 

Just because something happens in the urban core doesn't mean that it is immune to criticism. You are allowed to love the urban core and simultaneously criticize things that happen there. This is not the same thing as the mindless anti-city narrative that is perpetuated by 700 WLW and some of our local media outlets.

 

Yes, I live in OTR.

I guess I don't understand how it can be a poor venue choice for DeB, but it's not a poor venue choice for the city flea, bluegrass night, yoga night etc etc. can't have your cake and eat it too

^I don't think that the event should not be criticized, and I understand it's an editorial.  (I think, however, when Urban Cincy publishes an editorial by one of its staff/contributors, the reaction of people thinking that it was Urban Cincy's position is reasonable.)

 

If anything, Urban Cincy has apparently reached the point of respect that people are upset by an article they don't think lives up to its standards.