"What used to take 2 hours now takes all day!"

 

Why? Government-mandated 7.7:1 compression!

After living in OTR for 6 of the last 7 years (and Northside for that other year), my willingness to drive just about anywhere for any reason has gone down to almost zero. I can walk to most things I need in OTR, and it seems like such a massive pain any time I have to drive 15 minutes to get somewhere. I can't comprehend how people are okay with doing that every day of their lives.

 

I tell people this all the time and they tend to look at me funny, but it's true.  When you no longer have to drive much anymore as a necessity it really changes your perspective.  As more people realize this and share their experiences with others maybe more people will come to realize the truth of the matter.  Driving all the time really sucks and we've just been conditioned to believe it's something we have to do multiple times every day.

Moving to NYC has brought with it its own annoyances in terms of movement such as near constant breakdowns, a recent string of power outages that have left me stranded nowhere near an operating line that gets me to work, etc. but not having to drive is so nice.

 

One of the biggest benefits is that because basically everyone here uses some form of public transit they all realize that people lose a chunk of ability to be in control of when they arrive places so almost all offices are flexible in their hours. Which is great since it removes that anxiety when things do start to go wrong.

 

We are allowed to get in anytime before 9:30. I generally aim for 8:30-8:45 but sometimes that becomes 9:30 for reasons out of my control. But not having to really fret over that is nice. Although Tuesday took me from 7:55 to 10:10 to get to work thanks to an aforementioned power outage...but that was a rare situation (I hope).

 

And the best part? I can do other crap while on the train. Even if it's taking a long time I can read/write emails, play games, read an article, etc. Why would I want to trade that in for having to deal with driving everywhere again? Driving is boring. Owning a car is expensive. Boring + expensive + anxiety-inducing = no bueno. That's a scientific calculation right there.

 

 

We are allowed to get in anytime before 9:30. I generally aim for 8:30-8:45 but sometimes that becomes 9:30 for reasons out of my control. But not having to really fret over that is nice. Although Tuesday took me from 7:55 to 10:10 to get to work thanks to an aforementioned power outage...but that was a rare situation (I hope).

 

 

In Real America if there's something wrong with your car it might as well be wrong with you. Broken control arm = broken arm. Flat tire = broken foot. Engine trouble = heart trouble.

In Cincy I remember getting an email about being late during a snowstorm. 2/3 of my office used Columbia Parkway to Torrence Parkway to get into Hyde Park. In retrospect I should have known it would be a freaking mess, but the alternatives weren't exactly great for getting up the hills out of the basin.

 

But it took about an hour and a half to get up Torrence. And once at the top only about one or two people could go when the light turned green because it took so long for people to actually start moving. There was a homeless man helping push every car too. Had he not been there I don't think anyone would have been able to move.

 

Everyone was late that day despite my efforts of leaving early by about an hour. But we had a "hard start of 8 am" which was inflexible. It was sort of ridiculous considering all the options were severely screwed up and people couldn't realistically arrive on time since several people had kids that they had to send off to school and couldn't just leave earlier to account for the snow and ice everywhere.

 

I'm happy I never have to worry about that again. My current office closes if public transit is shut down since  that's how literally all 22 of us get here.

Midwesterners are ridiculous about time as well.

I keep seeing people claiming that all of the urban growth that's happening right now is just a "bubble" but I could not disagree more wholeheartedly. (I have recently seen people say this about both Over-the-Rhine and the Short North.) I think many people are shocked that urban neighborhoods that were seen as undesirable for most of their lives are suddenly exploding with new growth, and the only explanation they can come up with is that it's a "bubble".

 

An increasing number of people — yes, young people, but also many retiring people — would rather live in areas with historic architecture, walkability, interesting shops and restaurants, and cultural institutions. The suburbs don't provide that, and so cities are booming, especially neighborhoods that have those desirable qualities. Maybe, at some point in the next decade, developers will have built enough luxury condos and apartments in cities to soak up the demand for that particular type of product, but then they will just shift to build more affordable housing products. (Or, more likely, the "luxury" apartments of today will become the affordable housing of tomorrow, and developers will continue building more luxury housing.)

 

I think we will continue to see urban growth in American cities for the rest of my lifetime. Even if self-driving cars become a widespread form of transportation accessible to everyone, I don't foresee another mass exodus to the suburbs like what happened when interstates were originally built. Some people might choose to live in the suburbs and have their self-driving car bring them into the city, but they're still going to have to deal with long commutes... perhaps even longer commutes than what people deal with today. There's still going to be incredibly high demand for condos and apartments in neighborhoods where you can walk out your front door and be within a short walk of restaurants, bars, museums, shops, etc.

Yes what's Luxury today is pretty stripped down as compared to the '60s-'80s. Things are really dull-looking today even at the high end. There's a good chance that stuff will end up being written off as "cheap" even if the countertop material was expensive and the range hood is stainless steel. The mid to late 20th century really knew how to be flashy and an easy way to make the "clean" stuff of today turn into the "generic" of tomorrow is for the future builders to add back that kind of flash.

I keep seeing people claiming that all of the urban growth that's happening right now is just a "bubble" but I could not disagree more wholeheartedly. (I have recently seen people say this about both Over-the-Rhine and the Short North.) I think many people are shocked that urban neighborhoods that were seen as undesirable for most of their lives are suddenly exploding with new growth, and the only explanation they can come up with is that it's a "bubble".

 

An increasing number of people — yes, young people, but also many retiring people — would rather live in areas with historic architecture, walkability, interesting shops and restaurants, and cultural institutions. The suburbs don't provide that, and so cities are booming, especially neighborhoods that have those desirable qualities. Maybe, at some point in the next decade, developers will have built enough luxury condos and apartments in cities to soak up the demand for that particular type of product, but then they will just shift to build more affordable housing products. (Or, more likely, the "luxury" apartments of today will become the affordable housing of tomorrow, and developers will continue building more luxury housing.)

 

I think we will continue to see urban growth in American cities for the rest of my lifetime. Even if self-driving cars become a widespread form of transportation accessible to everyone, I don't foresee another mass exodus to the suburbs like what happened when interstates were originally built. Some people might choose to live in the suburbs and have their self-driving car bring them into the city, but they're still going to have to deal with long commutes... perhaps even longer commutes than what people deal with today. There's still going to be incredibly high demand for condos and apartments in neighborhoods where you can walk out your front door and be within a short walk of restaurants, bars, museums, shops, etc.

 

Cities are simply a natural habitat for humans. We have been living in them for thousands of years. Our country just happened to go through an incredible economic and population growth period at the exact time when cars became readily available to all. Add a dash of racial strife and voila... you get our wholly unnatural suburban landscape and lifestyle. All that's happening now is a return to normalcy. The people who say "bubble" don't realize that their own setting is the bizarre one, not the redevelopment of formerly "undesirable" areas.

A low-key story on Over-the-Rhine in the 90s from WCPO.  No way could The Enquirer have done an article like this. 

 

The only big thing they missed with this article was mention of The Warehouse, the industrial/goth bar at 1313 Vine, which was there for over 10 years.  I remember when The Warehouse ran commercials on Channel 64...which might be joined during the same commercial break with one for Sentiment's Rock City on Short Vine and album commercials from Sub-Pop.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/over-the-rhine-was-a-cool-and-up-and-coming-place-once-before-until-one-fateful-night-in-2001

A low-key story on Over-the-Rhine in the 90s from WCPO.  No way could The Enquirer have done an article like this. 

 

The only big thing they missed with this article was mention of The Warehouse, the industrial/goth bar at 1313 Vine, which was there for over 10 years.  I remember when The Warehouse ran commercials on Channel 64...which might be joined during the same commercial break with one for Sentiment's Rock City on Short Vine and album commercials from Sub-Pop.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/over-the-rhine-was-a-cool-and-up-and-coming-place-once-before-until-one-fateful-night-in-2001

 

They do mention The Warehouse: "Around 2 a.m., a young black man, Timothy Thomas, 19, is spotted by a white, off-duty police officer, Steve Roach, outside The Warehouse, a Vine Street nightclub."

I never got to go to the old Kaldi's, but I imagine that it had a similar vibe as Sitwell's on Ludlow. Except that Sitwell's was just sold and is probably going to have a different feel when it reopens.

I never got to go to the old Kaldi's, but I imagine that it had a similar vibe as Sitwell's on Ludlow. Except that Sitwell's was just sold and is probably going to have a different feel when it reopens.

 

I never hung out in Kaldi's because it came across to me as a teenager as being pretty pretentious, as did all of the coffee houses in the 90s.  I did go in there to hang up band flyers, though. 

 

I never got to go to the old Kaldi's, but I imagine that it had a similar vibe as Sitwell's on Ludlow. Except that Sitwell's was just sold and is probably going to have a different feel when it reopens.

 

I never hung out in Kaldi's because it came across to me as a teenager as being pretty pretentious, as did all of the coffee houses in the 90s.  I did go in there to hang up band flyers, though. 

 

 

Kaldi's was a quality establishment

Kaldi's was a quality establishment

 

I have in my possession (probably -- I haven't watched it in 15 years, at least) a circa-1996 videotaped rant by someone making fun of the crowd who hung out there and at the College Hill coffee shop.  Both opened around 1992. 

 

Kaldi's was a quality establishment

 

I have in my possession (probably -- I haven't watched it in 15 years, at least) a circa-1996 videotaped rant by someone making fun of the crowd who hung out there and at the College Hill coffee shop.  Both opened around 1992. 

 

 

Two very different spots (especially Kaldi's at the end). By 2005 Kaldi's was a dingier version of Sitwells and more of a bar than a coffee shop.

The rise of coffee houses was a direct response to the drinking age being hiked in the late 80s.  People used to be able to go to bars when they were seniors in high school.  When one of my aunts was in 8th grade she went into the Knotty Pine at 3:30 in the afternoon to sell candy bars and saw her next-older brother shooting pool.  He was probably 16-17 at the time. 

 

 

Large luxury condos coming to historic OTR building

 

Each of the three upper floors at 100 W. Elder St. would feature a single unit of about 2,000 square feet. By comparison, other condos coming on the market in OTR typically encompass 800 to 1,200 square feet, he said. [...]

 

The project needs city approval, but no historic tax credits will be sought, said Badger, who operates OTR-based City Lofts with business partner Jim Martin.

 

Badger expects the units would sell in the $650,000 to $700,000 range.

 

That's an interesting building, especially since it had the entire north-facing facade removed. Sounds like they'll be keeping those floor-to-ceiling windows on the north facade, and the historic windows facing Elder and Race.

 

The intersection of Elder and Vine Streets is no more than 500 feet from this building. The intersection is an open air drug market with dealing happening in plain sight. Pedestrians dare drivers to hit them on Vine and I have seen TRIPLE parking on Vine next to "Jack's Best for Less." These condos will have a view of Findlay Playground/Park which is filled with an army of drunk, drugged, and mentally ill people daily. How can they get such prices being next to, and in view of, the most threatening public spaces in the entire city? Is there a plan to deal with the chaos of this area?

The intersection of Elder and Vine Streets is no more than 500 feet from this building. The intersection is an open air drug market with dealing happening in plain sight. Pedestrians dare drivers to hit them on Vine and I have seen TRIPLE parking on Vine next to "Jack's Best for Less." These condos will have a view of Findlay Playground/Park which is filled with an army of drunk, drugged, and mentally ill people daily. How can they get such prices being next to, and in view of, the most threatening public spaces in the entire city? Is there a plan to deal with the chaos of this area?

 

You obviously have no recollection of Over-the-Rhine in the 1990s and up until about 2006. 

 

 

No, I don't. I never stepped foot in OTR until 2010, though I have heard horror stories of the old days. How did the chaos that still exists around the intersection of McMicken and Vine leave the rest of OTR? Did it simply evaporate at the sight of shiny new windows, paint, and hipsters or were the dealers, drunks, and mentally ill forcibly 'pushed' out of other parts of OTR?

The people causing trouble largely didn't live there.  Plus the rise of cell phones took a bunch of prostitution and drug dealing out of public view. 

12th & Vine was at one point considered the most dangerous corner in Cincinnati. Just a few years later, it became the epicenter of Cincinnati's culinary scene.

 

The scale of what's happening around Findlay Market right now completely blows away that first Gateway Quarter phase. So I would expect to see the area around Findlay change pretty quickly. (Two full blocks being renovated by Model Group, Film Center project by UrbanSites, and multiple other smaller projects.)

 

Cincinnati Police have already presented a plan with some proposed changes to Findlay Playground to cut down on the drug dealing and other illicit behaviors.

The dealers at Elder and Vine that I walked past just a few hours ago looked VERY comfortable and at ease. They were completely unconcerned by my presence even though I'm an old, white, bald, nerdy man who clearly was not part of the 'scene' there. I stood out like a sore thumb but they were very relaxed as they discussed their affairs and passed drugs and money back and forth. If there's a plan to push back against them, they aren't feeling it's effects in the slightest. I'm sure that most of them don't live in OTR now. It's clearly their 'place of business.' They even keep office hours because they always depart around sunset.

 

Why do they need to 'conduct business' in such a visible and public location if phones now mean it's not necessary to do so anymore? I can only assume that it's because the police let them do it there. Did the dealers move out of 12th and Vine only AFTER the restaurants arrived? Is that what developers expect to happen around Findlay? I'm not a developer, but I'd have to see some evidence of push back against the dealers BEFORE I put a penny into the neighborhood. Maybe that's why I'm not a developer.....

The dealers at Elder and Vine that I walked past just a few hours ago looked VERY comfortable and at ease. They were completely unconcerned by my presence even though I'm an old, white, bald, nerdy man who clearly was not part of the 'scene' there. I stood out like a sore thumb but they were very relaxed as they discussed their affairs and passed drugs and money back and forth. If there's a plan to push back against them, they aren't feeling it's effects in the slightest. I'm sure that most of them don't live in OTR now. It's clearly their 'place of business.' They even keep office hours because they always depart around sunset.

 

Why do they need to 'conduct business' in such a visible and public location if phones now mean it's not necessary to do so anymore? I can only assume that it's because the police let them do it there. Did the dealers move out of 12th and Vine only AFTER the restaurants arrived? Is that what developers expect to happen around Findlay? I'm not a developer, but I'd have to see some evidence of push back against the dealers BEFORE I put a penny into the neighborhood. Maybe that's why I'm not a developer.....

 

I don't think there has to be an active effort to push them out.  Once more development takes places, they will move on their own.  The area you're talking about hasn't really seen any development and it's in it own little pocket away from everything. 

Wow you're super dramatic. People deal drugs all over the entire city. I have drug dealers on my street in Kennedy heights that keep to themselves and usually don't cause any problems. I'm sure there's drug dealers in Oakley and hyde park. And there have been whole grow houses in indian Hills.  I'm sure it's better to not have them there to reduce risk of violent crime but just because they're there doesn't mean we can't have nice things.

Street dealers are the scourge of a neighborhood. Completely ruin it. Zero tolerance is the only way to get rid of them. They shoot each other, engage in petty crime when not dealing and promote thug life and attract other low lifes. Anyone tolerating them is an addict or a criminal or highly misinformed.

 

Until they are gone, nothing good can happen on a block.

 

They were run off Main St. and Sycamore.

 

There are no street dealers in Hyde Park. If one is seen, we call the police and complain. The police show up when you call them and the dealers move on. On Sycamore, i called the cops 20 times because the heroin boyz were using a bus stop on the quiet block as a drop. The neighborhood operations officers roussted them every time i asked. You couldn't find them now with the FBI on my block.

Lol guess me, my wife and my mother-in-law and everyone on my street are addicts or criminals.

.. I'd have to see some evidence of push back against the dealers BEFORE I put a penny into the neighborhood. Maybe that's why I'm not a developer.....

Yep, and that's why you'll pay higher prices when you come later

Street dealers are the scourge of a neighborhood. Completely ruin it. Zero tolerance is the only way to get rid of them. They shoot each other, engage in petty crime when not dealing and promote thug life and attract other low lifes. Anyone tolerating them is an addict or a criminal or highly misinformed.

 

Until they are gone, nothing good can happen on a block.

This is not only untrue, it's backwards. The reality is that "They will not be gone, until many good things happen on a block."

 

I have lived next to street drug dealers for the past 7-8 years. I've seen them move, in increments, 300 ft. down the block, and decrease in number from a couple dozen to 3-4, in response to new residents and development. It's very predictable.

 

So its taken 8 years and they moved 300 ft. Good job.

 

If you are referring to Upper Elm, the residents have done exactly nada to remove the scourge. Some displacement has helped. But, I would venture that the problem is as bad today as it was 8 years ago. Just different drugs making the difference with the relative disappearance of crack cocaine. Elm and Liberty is still a shithole.  Even with the development, I can't even get my paralegal to park up at the Vital records office.

So, the dealers left 12th and Vine AFTER the restaurants arrived and without coordinated police pressure? I'm glad that Ben doesn't see drug dealers as a threat. Once OTR doesn't play the role of the dumping ground for the rest of Cincinnati's 'problems,' the dealers may well come to Kennedy Heights and he'll have to deal with them, and their effect on the value of his property, directly. I'll be sure to tell the dealers at Vine and Elder how great Kennedy Heights is and that they will be welcome there.

Oh, is this 12th and Vine? Haha. The businesses up there have invested a small fortune in Police Detail Officers who keep the dealers at bay during open hours. And, there aren't many actual "residents." Without police and resident complaints nothing will happen.

So its taken 8 years and they moved 300 ft. Good job.

 

If you are referring to Upper Elm, the residents have done exactly nada to remove the scourge. Some displacement has helped. But, I would venture that the problem is as bad today as it was 8 years ago. Just different drugs making the difference with the relative disappearance of crack cocaine. Elm and Liberty is still a shithole.  Even with the development, I can't even get my paralegal to park up at the Vital records office.

OK you win. You're the Biggest Dick on the forum. Good job.

Oh, Doctor. Did I forget to say how right you were? And, how smart?  Sorry.

Oh well I shouldn't have said that. But I've cancelled your dinner invitation anyway. Sorry.

 

Seriously, I am amazed that you can pretend to tell me what I've been seeing with my own eyes and living with, when apparently all you've done is to send a freaked out paralegal over here every now and again.

 

You have no idea what my neighbors and I have done, or have not done. You have no basis for even venturing a guess as to whether the problem is as bad now as 8 years ago. I, on the other hand, do, because I live here, and have played a role in that change.

 

My whole point was that dealers, and their clients, move in response to development pressure, much easier than they move in response to police tactics, which are very limited. Thus, changes in street dealing and related patterns start with development, not the other way around.

 

The difference between today and 8 years ago? The difference in 300 ft? Wow - both are HUGE. We used to routinely have 100 people on the streets at any one time, both sides, drinking, urinating, and deficating near my home. It was a special time. Now I don't see any of that, maybe a half dozen people at a time max, maybe a couple of dealers max. Relatively, it's a sea change.

 

I don't think I'd do it again, but I don't regret the adventure for reasons I would never try to explain to you.

 

By the way, you should consider changing 1400 Sycamore[/member] to your real name. It would make a difference.

So, the mere presence of professional-class residents and restaurant-goers was a greater deterrent to dealers than the police. That's amazing to me. It suggests a much greater insecurity among street dealers and dwellers than I would have ever imagined watching the goings on at Vine and Elder yesterday. I would have thought that nothing less than the national guard would be required to move them from their chosen place of business. It's good to be reminded that appearances can be deceiving and that OTR can change more quickly and easily than I had imagined.

Well, I am glad that you think you have made a lot of progress. We obviously differ on tactics and agree on objectives. The reason there are no street dealers in Hyde Park is not because people do not buy and smoke pot there and other drugs, it is because street thugs are not tolerated there. Hyde Park is at one polar extreme, Vine St. at another. In between is a variable spectrum of tolerance and presence of dealers. I could put Mudville on the spectrum and cite the Citizens on Patrol there, and Mt. Washington on the spectrum and cite the lack of citizen involvement there.

 

I am confident that constant police pressure is the anathema to dealers, not development.

 

You can have you own opinion, which you apparently do. After all it was you who contradicted me.

 

Regards,

 

 

Greg Wilson (how about if I just sign my name since anyone with a keyboard knows who I am anyway).

Urban revitalization is hard work. It takes time, commitment and tons of money. Developers are investing millions of dollars in OTR because its quality and characteristics are worth saving. There are plenty of people on this forum that have seen this first hand and have done good work. I know you both own property in OTR and have very different viewpoints.

 

That said, name calling and trolling are not good ways to have a productive discussion on this forum. I hope this post has made that clear and that moderators and admin are watching. Please get back on topic.

 

Thanks.

So, the mere presence of professional-class residents and restaurant-goers was a greater deterrent to dealers than the police. That's amazing to me. It suggests a much greater insecurity among street dealers and dwellers than I would have ever imagined watching the goings on at Vine and Elder yesterday. I would have thought that nothing less than the national guard would be required to move them from their chosen place of business. It's good to be reminded that appearances can be deceiving and that OTR can change more quickly and easily than I had imagined.

OK this is my last gasp on this, I promise, but I do think it is relevant to development news.

 

I wouldn't say it is quick, or easy. I have engaged the police many many times and in different ways. I have met with them. I've given them access to my property and my security cameras. They have been very helpful. Believe me, I call them.

 

But I can tell you with absolute certainty (because the police have been very clear with me on this, and I have witnessed it firsthand), the police are not going to aggressively hunt down and hound street dealers unless they are regularly beating people up or shooting each other. There are places where that is happening, and that's where the detectives are spending their resources. It makes sense. Thankfully, we have "polite" street dealers here on Elm, and I think that is true many places. They are very aware of their impact on the local community and do not want to attract attention. Once - only once - they beat somebody up in the lot next to my house, and after they apologized to me for it! The dealers were more responsible than anyone else for getting people to stop urinating and defecating near my properties, which is REALLY bad news (I would take street dealing any day). They started actively telling the local alcoholics or junkies who used to hang out around them to avoid my properties when they had to go, after many times of my crossing the street and confronting the person who just crapped against the wall of my building. After similar many times of going outside in the middle of the night to complain about noise from the drug-dealer management (nice vehicles), who decided to stop by for a loud conversation with the dealers, they stopped that and have even adjusted their hours!

 

Hey, I could go on and on. It's not just me, several neighbors here have done similar things. My point is, that's the "development pressure" that matters. Having the cops come by to dump out someone's beer, or write a ticket, is almost meaningless. And the dealers are not stupid - while I have witnessed countless drug deals going down (and filmed them) - I have never, not once, seen a cop find drugs on their person when they were stopped and frisked. And while I've provided film evidence to the cops and detectives, and they found that interesting, they can do nothing with it. The ONLY thing that the cops can do to put someone in jail for dealing is for under cover detectives to arrange buys and catch them in the act of selling. And like I said, they are not going to do that, unless there is gunfire or violence. The dealers know this all too well.

 

So, things will change, and they do change. But in my opinion and experience, it's from the actions of many people like me, and of course organizations like 3CDC, who push into the neighborhoods with criminal activity, and start to see, respond, and interact. You don't just "clear out" a neighborhood, and then bring in the rehab crews.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, Jim. The dealers ARE very comfortable and they DON'T have anything to fear from the police. They ARE effectively in control of public areas and can get the homeless, addicts, and other street people to do what they want. It IS a society beyond the law.

 

This explains why prices for rehabbed property in OTR are so high. A significant part of the price is the cost and effort of confronting the dealers and street people by the initial owners/rehabbers. People are paying rehabbers for their efforts and the opportunity costs of doing all the dirty work of taking on against the street people over a period of time. As several have said here, this can't be done easily or quickly. Investing in rehabbed property in OTR is an investment in an entirely new economy as much as in the building and their improvements. The price differentials between OTR and Westwood or Price Hill are suddenly much easier to understand. OTR isn't a property bubble after all. Despite the age of the buildings and historic credentials of the neighborhood, OTR is actually the creation of something entirely new. How ironic.

This is an important development topic. One of the most important.

 

I thought we had agreement that getting rid of the dealers was of prime importance. It is for me. Apparently not for everyone.

 

What I have seen over my 20 years in OTR is that development brings better paying, less violent customers to a population of dealers. And, the dealers bring a thug element to town from all over (east, west and across the river). Want to by some pot? "Let's cruise up Elm Street." While they are here they cause trouble, steal, fight, litter and are generally unpleasant. The exact opposite of what is described above. Tolerance of these dealers keeps them on site and protects them. Gives them a place of business. a franchise. They think they own the location. Their customers come with impunity. Development adds better paying, less violent customers and does not deter them in the least.

 

And, it is not at all about whether they are arrested or drugs are found. They just don't like being photographed or the police stopping them to ask what they are doing. That is more than enough to send them elsewhere. That is why they can't be found in nice neighborhoods where people don't put up with their antics. Not because people in nice neighborhoods are not their customers. Often they are.

 

We all have to follow our own path, but I would welcome anyone who wants to stop by my corner of the world to see if my approach is working. I do claim partial credit. 

 

Greg Wilson

Another thing to remember is that the "eyes on the street" element is really important. There are no drug dealers on Vine Street between Central Parkway and 14th, let's say, because those sidewalks are crowded with people going to restaurants and shops and other people are looking out the window from their condos above. Drug dealers go to the parts of the neighborhood where they feel more comfortable. With all of the efforts currently underway to add more apartments, condos, restaurants, shops, and office space around Findlay Market, it's not going to be long before the drug dealers feel uncomfortable and move elsewhere.

Jake, are you suggesting that the Cincinnati Police are choosing not to counter dealers in OTR today for some reason? Are they still taking kickbacks?

Jake, are you suggesting that the Cincinnati Police are choosing not to counter dealers in OTR today for some reason? Are they still taking kickbacks?

 

To whatever extent this is going on today it is very small compared to what was quite obviously going on 15 years ago.  This is why it's important for CPD and the County to never merge.  They are a check on one-another.

 

I haven't heard anything about CPD in a long time but I just had a relative arrested two years ago out-of-state with over an ounce of marijuana in the vehicle.  Months later when it was brought trial the case was tossed because the marijuana had mysteriously gone missing and had never been sent out for testing.  So the state had no evidence. 

Do county sheriffs ever enter or patrol OTR these days?

There are many eyes on the intersection of Elder and Vine streets most days. I counted over 70 mostly young men just standing there on Friday.

There are many eyes on the intersection of Elder and Vine streets most days. I counted over 70 mostly young men just standing there on Friday.

 

I have walked or bicycled past this spot hundreds of times in the last 10 years without incident.  This is like a tiny fraction of the amount of loitering that used to go on in Over-the-Rhine. 

Incredible. OTR must have been hell on earth at one time. I have new respect for the achievements of today's OTR. Thanks for providing some historical perspective.

I think it's pretty well documented that it's a combo of development and policing that helps to eliminate the dealers. 3CDC is well known for talking about how they bought up and closed the corner liquor stores and cash checking stores as people would loiter there. It's also well known that when there is legal foot traffic more eyes on the street that there is less drug dealing. Even in the last 5 years of you went through OTR on Vine Street or Walnut or Race, there is a marked difference due to more buildings being reoccupied vs the past. You will see less drug dealing on Vine and Elder as the vacant buildings are redeveloped and put into use again, as the alleys and dark corners won't be dark anymore and have eyes on top. The city can't possibly do this with policing alone but also development alone won't do it, but I think if you were on 13th and Vine in 2012 and 13th and Vine in 2018 you would see a lot less dealing or illicit activity. Shoot I think in 2014 someone was murdered in broad daylight on Vine and 14th in front of Mercer Commons. I kind of doubt you would see something like that in that spot now due to the development on surrounding streets which pushed the dealers to other areas.

Yea my whole point in starting this was to point out that people engaging in the neighborhood and moving in and trying to make it better help most. The more people are around the less likely drug dealers or any criminals are to do stuff. My other point was that no neighborhood is perfect. I'm glad and proud of our city that things have gotten so much better and I hope we continue to work on that. I don't believe racial stereotyping and pushing harder for increased gentrification are helpful though. I believe all of the initiatives in otr and west end/queensgate to help get people back on their feet and trained for jobs probably help a lot as do eyes on the street. I also believe legalizing marijuana will help as well in the coming years to reduce drug dealing as well as crime associated with it.

Btw sorry this is super off-topic just wanted to explain myself and stop the trolling back and forth.