Butler County is the source of the credits. Butler County is forgoing tax income and payed for public infrastructure for the liberty square, even the parking garages. They'll never break even on it.

1400 Sycamore says Cincinnati doesn't need economic growth. I say Cincinnati needs economic growth. That's my point.

 

I didn't say anything about economic growth.

 

You said it was overrated.

1400 Sycamore says Cincinnati doesn't need economic growth. I say Cincinnati needs economic growth. That's my point.

 

I didn't say anything about economic growth.

 

You said it was overrated.

 

Don't be disingenuous. I said growth. It was in response to your claim about Columbus and Austin. Both of which have been in the news repeatedly for population growth.

Comment deleted. Butler County comparison is just silly.

I'd like to point out that right now there are a lot more impoverished areas within Butler County than you'd think.

 

New Miami, Excello, southeast Hamilton, the apts along Mulhauser.... when "street people" is mentioned I assume that is code for poor people, which are everywhere.

Not just in select neighborhoods within the core city.

 

In the case of Cincinnati, it's especially true since the city is basically a collection of villages separated by large hills, especially in the western part (the east is a bit more cohesive IMO).

But it's true in Dayton too, or Columbus, or any other large city, and always has been.

Rich people sometimes choose to live in poor neighborhoods

Poor people sometimes scrape enough together to live in the worst parts of rich neighborhoods (like the people in Camp Dennison in Indian Hills, for instance)

 

 

This antequated belief that we can put a magical lasso around all the poor people and keep them in a small urban box is racist at best and totalitarian at worst.

If our nation really is the "Land of the Free" why do people continue to predisposition the belief that those who are poor cannot have access to the same resources as the wealthy?

That doesn't sound like freedom to me, it sounds like suppression, which is being advocated on this thread under the guise of safety.

 

I think that's the belief we are seeing a lot on this thread.

To those that believe it, grow up.

 

1400 Sycamore says Cincinnati doesn't need economic growth. I say Cincinnati needs economic growth. That's my point.

 

I didn't say anything about economic growth.

 

You said it was overrated.

 

Don't be disingenuous. I said growth. It was in response to your claim about Columbus and Austin. Both of which have been in the news repeatedly for population growth.

i honestly don't understand what you mean.

I'd like to point out that right now there are a lot more impoverished areas within Butler County than you'd think.

 

New Miami, Excello, southeast Hamilton, the apts along Mulhauser.... when "street people" is mentioned I assume that is code for poor people, which are everywhere.

Not just in select neighborhoods within the core city.

 

In the case of Cincinnati, it's especially true since the city is basically a collection of villages separated by large hills, especially in the western part (the east is a bit more cohesive IMO).

But it's true in Dayton too, or Columbus, or any other large city, and always has been.

Rich people sometimes choose to live in poor neighborhoods

Poor people someThis antequated belief times scrape enough together to live in the worst parts of rich neighborhoods (like the people in Camp Dennison in Indian Hills, for instance)

 

 

that we can put a magical lasso around all the poor people and keep them in a small urban box is racist at best and totalitarian at worst.

If our nation really is the "Land of the Free" why do people continue to predisposition the belief that those who are poor cannot have access to the same resources as the wealthy?

That doesn't sound like freedom to me, it sounds like suppression, which is being advocated on this thread under the guise of safety.

 

I think that's the belief we are seeing a lot on this thread.

To those that believe it, grow up.

 

"The belief that we can put a magical lasso around all the poor people and keep them in a small urban box" is what created this concentration of the poor in OTR in the first place. SWOH should work against this "suppression" of the poor by inviting them to his neighborhood to share its "resources" with them. To do otherwise would be hypocritical.

^It's been shown before that one of the best ways to combat poverty and the other societal ills that come along with it is to "dilute" the concentration of it, so SWOH isn't really off-base here. If you want to get people off welfare or out of the influence of drugs and crime, put them somewhere where they can get those resources. I for one am happy to share the relative sanctuary of my neighborhood in west Dayton with those less fortunate. We're a good mix of income and race and as a result it's a relative oasis compared to the severe concentrations of poverty across much of the rest of West Dayton.

Yes, poor people shouldn't be contained in OTR They should be free to choose where they live like everyone else. West Dayton sounds great. I'll tell everyone in OTR all about it. You might come to OTR yourself and spread the word about West Dayton and invite people from OTR to come there! I hope SWOH tells us where he lives so I can spread the word about his wonderful neighborhood to everyone in OTR.

^I mean I think it's only fair that you share where you live too....

but just because you are concerned, I live at Austin Landing in an apartment, exit 41 off I-75.

 

The complex where I live is 100% market rate, and rents start right about $900/mo.

I live here because of its central location, because I have a friend or two that lives in the complex, because my previous apt complex which I liked a lot was managed by the same property management company, and because of its walkability/community amenities.

 

I would welcome the incusion of subsidized housing in my building.

In the meantime, if people from OTR want to move here they are more than welcome to it.

There's plenty of below market rate rentals up and down 741 very close to where I live.

 

In the future I am planning to buy a house in a walkable neighborhood, with any luck it will happen within the next 2-3 years.

Because of the fact I want to keep my mortgage to 10 years and do at least a 25% down payment, my house will likely cost $150k or less.

If you cannot tell I'm very risk-averse in my investment strategy.

A place like the neighborhood where BigDipper 80 lives is at the top of my list.

His neighborhood is a great mix of people of all different types of income and race.

I can guarantee wherever I plan to move will have Section 8 housing within a mile, probably closer, just like his neighborhood and probably yours too.

 

 

But Matthew67, you still did not address the fact that you are promoting a skewed playing field in favor of those that are born in a better environment.

That's the crux of the issue.

Have you ever considered the fact that a lot of crimes are not the result of desire but of desperation, addiction, and circumstance?

Why not improve the odds to make sure all people have the opportunity to afford rent payments, food and necessary medical care?

Why support the continued economic suppression?

 

 

I dare you to answer.

 

 

So, some places are "better" than others..... I think you mean well, but you views are misguided. Keeping poor people in OTR IS "continued economic suppression." They don't want to be in OTR. They are here because that's the only place that social service agencies can serve them because of the politics of charity in Cincinnati. You have chosen to live in a place that is "promoting a skewed playing field" against the poor. I know your area well. The violence and chaos of OTR simply does not exist in your area. You don't "share where you live" with dealers, thugs, and the mentally ill and addicted as I do. You are responsible for that choice as much I am for my choice to live in OTR. The way to improve the odds that all people have the opportunity to afford rent, food, and medical care is to provide them the choices of WHERE to obtain these things, like everyone else. The poor need a way into the society the rest of us live in, not a containment area where they are lured with handouts as is currently the situation in OTR. Come to OTR and see for yourself. Otherwise you come across as sanctimonious.

I just relocated 8 OTR residents. 9/2017

 

First, no one wanted to leave OTR.

 

Second, every one had a choice.

 

Third, those who left OTR did not, in my opinion trade up.

 

6 to OTR, 1 to Avondale, 1 to Mitchell Ave.

 

Everyone got a voucher and movers. And, I personally gave them some walking around money to make the move lesss painful. Stuff HUD does not pay for like Cable deposit, etc.

"relocate"? Do you run a witness protection program? They want to be OTR because that's where they can get the handouts they need. If those handouts weren't in OTR, THEY wouldn't be in OTR. So you admit that there's an "up".

So, some places are "better" than others..... I think you mean well, but you views are misguided. Keeping poor people in OTR IS "continued economic suppression." They don't want to be in OTR. They are here because that's the only place that social service agencies can serve them because of the politics of charity in Cincinnati. You have chosen to live in a place that is "promoting a skewed playing field" against the poor. I know your area well. The violence and chaos of OTR simply does not exist in your area. You don't "share where you live" with dealers, thugs, and the mentally ill and addicted as I do. You are responsible for that choice as much I am for my choice to live in OTR. The way to improve the odds that all people have the opportunity to afford rent, food, and medical care is to provide them the choices of WHERE to obtain these things, like everyone else. The poor need a way into the society the rest of us live in, not a containment area where they are lured with handouts as is currently the situation in OTR. Come to OTR and see for yourself. Otherwise you come across as sanctimonious.

 

I'm surprised I'm saying this but there's a lot of points where I agree 100%, especially the bolded sentences.

I don't agree with the italicized.

I don't live there but I've been to OTR enough to know it has basically turned its corner in all areas (certainly all areas south of Liberty St.) and is one of the nicest parts of the city now.

The OTR to which you are referring is circa 2001 (maybe even as late as 2010) but not the OTR of today.

I imagine that's reason #1 why people are frustrated with you on this thread.

 

Second, I should have explained my background better than I did before.

If I spent all of my time in the bubble where I live I'd agree with you, but...

 

I probably should have pointed out earlier that I spend most of my hours that I'm awake during the week in Trotwood, one of Dayton's worst off suburbs, at work.

Last week the SWAT team was called in because of a standoff down the street, and last year the deli owner a block away was shot in the stomach by a robber who wanted $100.

Our company, which is a family owned small business, had to get a high grade security system, bars on all the windows, and some of the most secure door locks on the market that we then had to cover with fabricated steel protective weldments to prevent break-ins for our copper.

 

I also grew up in a predominantly Appalachian neighborhood three miles south of AK Steel in Middletown.

Hillbilly Elegy could have been written about how my friends and classmates grew up.

To be honest, I probably have seen or met JD Vance before... working at the Dillman's on Roosevelt when I was a kid, or at the fast food restaurants on Briel.

 

My parents struggled with money a lot before they had me, and they were very responsible to wait until they were financially sound before trying for kids.

Once they did, they were able to give me an amazing life.

Through some of their actions I can see the desperation of people who used to be poor while through their other actions I see the seasoned reasoning of someone with enough money to plan what they do with it.

So I've seen both sides, I've lived both sides.

 

 

This is why I'm convinced concentrations of poverty does no one any good.

I'm not saying every place should be the same (that's certainly not the case), but maybe the violence and chaos wouldn't exist if the people doing it aren't living right in the same spot.

It'd make it a lot harder for them to get together and organize it.

Maybe if people have the money and the power to choose where they actually want to live (or at least have the ability to choose between multiple different good options) there would be less crime and fewer problems.

 

I think OTR proves that is the case.

The neighborhood has gentrified, yes, but there are provisions for affordable housing, which people who lived in the neighborhood in 2001 have taken advantage of and use.

The businesses and new residents of OTR do a lot of good for the people who are less fortunate in the community there now.

Also these businesses are hiring residents, helping them climb their way out of poverty.

 

So I agree 100% with the parts of your comment I bolded. You are right the poor need a way into the society the rest of us live in.

Why not invite them in now?

 

I just relocated 8 OTR residents. 9/2017

 

First, no one wanted to leave OTR.

 

Second, every one had a choice.

 

Third, those who left OTR did not, in my opinion trade up.

 

6 to OTR, 1 to Avondale, 1 to Mitchell Ave.

 

Everyone got a voucher and movers. And, I personally gave them some walking around money to make the move lesss painful. Stuff HUD does not pay for like Cable deposit, etc.

 

Wilson513,

 

So you're saying out of the 8 people you relocated, 6 stayed in the neighborhood?

Yes. No one is in Pendleton, I could not get Model to get them in to their Section 8 units, but 6 were successfully relocated in OTR. Bobby Maly had no space and a Section 8 waiting list for Pendleton Section 8. (Very desirable location).

 

EDIT: One second thought, one of the six is just across Central Ave. which might be called West End.

"relocate"? Do you run a witness protection program? They want to be OTR because that's where they can get the handouts they need. If those handouts weren't in OTR, THEY wouldn't be in OTR. So you admit that there's an "up".

 

Matthew. When you make comments like this, I don't know if I should ignore you or try to educate you. First, none of my tenants were receiving walk up "handouts." That is for the homeless. Second, I would relocate them without a legal obligation to do so. Its a great imposition to them personally. Third, the tenants have the right to relocation. Its the law.

I own and manage a building of four apartments in Cincinnati. I am under no obligation to find housing for my tenants after they leave my building. I really have no idea what you're talking about.

. . . .  I really have no idea what you're talking about.

 

I know.

If you're not interested in being understood, why do you participate in this forum?

Yes. No one is in Pendleton, I could not get Model to get them in to their Section 8 units, but 6 were successfully relocated in OTR. Bobby Maly had no space and a Section 8 waiting list for Pendleton Section 8. (Very desirable location).

 

EDIT: One second thought, one of the six is just across Central Ave. which might be called West End.

 

You talk about these people as if they're refugees or children of whom you have custody. They aren't 'relocating' them. They aren't yours. You benefit from having OTR has a containment facility for them in which you can control them and get your cut of public housing subsidies. You're part of the 'poverty industry' that is holding back OTR.

If you're not interested in being understood, why do you participate in this forum?

 

Matthew, there is a certain level of knowledge one needs to contribute meaningfully to a complex topic like this. You lack that knowledge. Both as to actual street experience as to what the OTR residents want, need and get, and the technical aspects of HUD, CMHA, and the social service network. And, you manage to insult me from your own ignorance. So, don't look to me to educate you.

The topic is perceptions of OTR, not HUD, CMHA, or any other "technical" questions. I know my comments threaten your claims to special status in OTR and your sources of income, but that's your problem, not mine.

The topic is perceptions of OTR, not HUD, CMHA, or any other "technical" questions. I know my comments threaten your claims to special status in OTR and your sources of income, but that's your problem, not mine.

 

Matthew, you run your mouth like it was stuck in the gibberish position. You know nothing about me, my income, my relationship to OTR or anything else that would qualify you to spew the nonsense you spew. Many posts above, I told you what 8 relocated OTR residents wanted in a move. That, by itself, is more information than you have mustered in your entire time wasting participation in this thread. Whatever it is you do, go back to it.

1400 Sycamore, I understand that your interests are threatened by my comments. Telling me to shut up and go away ( I live in OTR) doesn't make my comments untrue.

OK, for those who have an interest in the facts, if anyone, Project based Section 8 properties may only opt out of the program with Hud after giving a one year notice. All of the tenants must be relocated. they are entitled to a special voucher from HUD, in this area administered by CMHA. But, it is a grave imposition to move tenants who have been in one subsidized housing location sometimes for decades. In the case of my property, a specialized private relocation company was hired who coordinated the CMHA vouchers, movers, new location applications and deposits, etc. In the best of circumstances, it is not an easy process and there is much opposition. HUD doesn't want opt outs, local affordable housing organizations do not want a reduction in subsidized units, CMHA doesn't want opt outs, the tenants do not want to move.

 

My experience here is that OTR residents, at least in Pendleton with which I am familiar, love it here and do not want to move. But, rents have escalated from $.50-.75 per foot to as much as $2.00 per foot in the last 10 years. Hence, renovation and relocation.

At last, a substantive contribution to the discussion. What is your economic interest in this system? Who pays you and for what? Of course, those who's jobs depend on the administration of housing subsidies in OTR don't want the system they've created and learned how to operate to end. Of course, they want their 'poverty industry' relationships to continue. The tenants fear that they can't recreate the system of charity and barter among fellow poor people that they've created for themselves in OTR in another place. They're probably right. They know that they'll end up in a worse location than an OTR with falling crime, increasing social order, and improving public services. The irony is that those things are improving BECAUSE the poor are being "relocated." The housing agencies fear that they won't find other housing to administer in other neighborhoods and that threatens their agencies budgets and even their jobs. The building owners fear being demonized by the media, politicians, and the poverty industry for trying to maximize the value of their property. They might even fear reprisals from the dealers who fear losing a place to do their business. Rising rents are sign that the forces that organize the rest of American society are increasingly at work in OTR, too.  All americans face "relocation" for economic reasons. That's the way America works. Why should OTR be a special case?

Had some out of town family come and visit OTR last night. We went to Mecca and stayed out very late. Quite unfortunate that a double shooting occurred and police swarmed the surrounding area. They were impressed by otr earlier in the day and said such nice things about it, but left saying otr hasn’t changed with the violent crime. I tried to argue that it has changed, but it’s sort of hard to prove your point when there’s a dead shot up body laying on the ground laying next to you....I love otr, but man it sucks to see shootings rise again, and only help push the narrative that otr is dangerous and a drug dealer paradise.

 

I’m still kind of curious why the trouble makers and drug dealers are sticking around otr and still dealing in the area? I have to imagine it’s becoming more and more difficult to not be noticed...also I’m surprised that they haven’t been priced out yet, but I imagine they live in section 8 Housing...

^ 3 homicides in 4 days in OTR. There were murders Wednesday night on Green Street and Friday night on East Clifton, as well. 15th Street surprises me, because as you mentioned Mecca brings pretty big crowds out there now. The other two locations aren't all that surprising.

I’m still kind of curious why the trouble makers and drug dealers are sticking around otr and still dealing in the area?

 

Because rich people buy drugs off of them, like always. 

The only thing that I’m happy about is that it’s one less drug dealer roaming the streets of otr.

 

I spent time on grand jury in March, and the amount of drug dens in otr is actually quite astounding. The sad part is that the police know about these houses but can’t do anything about them. It’s sad. You see otr becoming this bright vibrant place but it still feels as if it’s past is still tightly tethered to its current state.

 

Edit:

 

https://courtclerk.org/data/cns_results.php?toggle=on&court%5BCCV%5D=on&court%5BCCR%5D=on&court%5BMCV%5D=on&court%5BMCR%5D=on&court%5BCDR%5D=on&court%5BCOA%5D=on&lname=dunlap&fname=SHERRARD&dob=&cname=&datelimit_beg=&datelimit=&g-recaptcha-response=03ACgFB9sTruOlxeT63drKOeT_h-RKORarFNS1ogcTLH826IMENBm9X_mJPfg_Ps7d9B2MfH2taDIflH9M7LY6pSUVQGFt0tj3Aan7I2yN0r7vo5Bkj7rip8hLW6adksSAWdCUXkAfDI8VBu126gIFmDVsBY3vd0qYCK0Zp2pVyh4_vnPPigb4RIA1vdaF3oMK9mrbsa8vhfPBKs5Ekrntf-kVqrbA7Ysp-IfXJeiJ_S2dxo9UBBr2PxpAO8dgpsGW0bt3HJphuuWPCdtE1a6WmklOEo2kNRVBooEkVW_DsAiA6kE4YFEUg7XRmwv0wjl839DVRz_X6NN8Evz1fVWKtkFkxBCECXonVU9WFgfA33jf5r6saTi6sWm8aB-rUAkNv5r-74VfSdglZ_Jz5Oyj0QhcXtobaPedSTHzauY9hkvo-0m_OP955RwfSTE2CjoWfcsyw1fVchfF

 

His criminal record is literallt 50 rows of different counts. How the hell was this guy even allowed to rent an apartment? How was this guy even allowed to live so close to a school? That is so troubling that you can have someone like this just roam the streets and not be locked behind bars.

Had some out of town family come and visit OTR last night. We went to Mecca and stayed out very late. Quite unfortunate that a double shooting occurred and police swarmed the surrounding area. They were impressed by otr earlier in the day and said such nice things about it, but left saying otr hasn’t changed with the violent crime. I tried to argue that it has changed, but it’s sort of hard to prove your point when there’s a dead shot up body laying on the ground laying next to you....I love otr, but man it sucks to see shootings rise again, and only help push the narrative that otr is dangerous and a drug dealer paradise.

 

I’m still kind of curious why the trouble makers and drug dealers are sticking around otr and still dealing in the area? I have to imagine it’s becoming more and more difficult to not be noticed...also I’m surprised that they haven’t been priced out yet, but I imagine they live in section 8 Housing...

 

Many of the dealers don't live in OTR.  They live in the West End, Price Hill, etc....  For the four years I've lived near 12th/Race we've just finally started making a dent in the area.  The problem isn't necessarily with people calling in crimes (although it certainly would help), it's an issues with some officers being apathetic to the crime in the neighborhood and not enough jail space to hold people.

 

For 2 1/2 years I had been calling the police regularly on a particular dealer even using his name when calling in.  Towards the end of that time two officers showed up at my door threatening to charge me for excessive calling on the individual.  Towards the end of that pow-wow, as I was telling them off, the individual came back trying to deal again.  Shortly afterwards I met with the District 1 Captain and some other of the decent neighborhood officers who promised to work more in the area and take my concerns seriously.  They finally got some undercover buys on the dealer and put him in jail, but the Sheriff had to let him out before his court date due to overcrowding.  The dealer has not returned and is still a wanted felon.

 

Until there is more accountability for officers and more money is made available for public safety, OTR will continue its snail pace towards becoming safer.

Now 4 murders in 5 days, all within a few blocks of one another:

 

http://local12.com/news/local/police-investigate-a-homicide-in-over-the-rhine

 

I feel like it's been a few years since there's been a killing spree like this.

^ Usually clusters like that indicate retaliations.

 

^^ It's pretty weird how people accept throwing a nearly infinite amount of money at police personnel, but jail overcrowding just elicits a shrug. You'd think, with the way Downtown & Cincinnati are no longer the gravitational population center of the county, people would be calling for a more centrally located jail (/s).

This is just horrible for the changing perception of otr. Saddens me a lot. I wonder if we would ever hit a tipping point where people would actually stop visiting resturaunts/bars in otr because of rising crime again?

Every year there is a streak of violent crime for 1-2 weeks.  The media goes nuts.  Then everyone forgets about it. 

Every year there is a streak of violent crime for 1-2 weeks.  The media goes nuts.  Then everyone forgets about it.

 

I’m just generally curious. Obviously we see developers build new construction/rehab and set record prices at times with 750-800k dollar condos. Do these crime spikes hurt there efforts?

 

Then we see what Source 3 Elm and Liberty project breaking ground in the summer and they expect to lease over 100 apartment units...but will residents coming flocking to north of liberty when a majority of the homocides occur in that stretch?

 

What’s your thoughts?

People talk about being scared to go to the soccer stadium in the West End because of crime. I mean, District 1 Police HQ is right next to it, I don't think there are too many murders in front of such a busy police presence.

 

If I were looking for a safe place to build something, next to the police station would be a pretty good choice.

Cars have been broken into in the police parking lot and John Street just a block away from District 1 is a major drug dealing site including murders in the past.  Being next to District 1 headquarters does not necessarily make the area safer.

Cars have been broken into in the police parking lot and John Street just a block away from District 1 is a major drug dealing site including murders in the past.  Being next to District 1 headquarters does not necessarily make the area safer.

 

Not saying that John Street hasn't been an issue in the past, because I believe you. But maybe things have changed? I am over in that area on foot quite a bit and have never felt threatened and have never seen any shady behavior. The biggest problem is that it is pretty desolate at night, which will change soon, especially during FC Cincy games.

I'm not convinced that a few unfortunate incidents will really have a big impact on the general perception of the neighborhood. Generally the people sitting at home watching the 11:00 news and getting scared by these incidents are not the same people who spend much time in the urban core anyway. Of course these events are really unfortunate, especially when friends and family get caught up in the action. But I don't believe that the events are evidence of a crime wave or the beginning of the downslide of the neighborhood. Woo Girls are still riding the Pedal Wagon around today.

I would still say yes. One of the factors being the new fc stadium. Yes there has been a spike in murders but it seems like most of these are due to gangs/drugs. If I could afford to live in OTR I would in a heartbeat.

Cars have been broken into in the police parking lot and John Street just a block away from District 1 is a major drug dealing site including murders in the past.  Being next to District 1 headquarters does not necessarily make the area safer.

 

5 summers ago when the saints were playing at stargel, we were allitle uncomfortable because we weren't familiar with the area, but never had any issues and went to every home game there of the season.

You see property value continue to rise and rise in otr, especially with address interested from developers after fcc.

 

What I’m curious is why we are allowing these hardened criminals who rob and run massive prostitution and drug dens stay in otr? Do they get government incentives for allowing them to rent these apartments? I feel like something fishy is going on....

Do they get government incentives for allowing them to rent these apartments?

 

Yes.  Landlords get vouchers for people coming out of drug rehab programs, mental health problems, etc. 

Do they get government incentives for allowing them to rent these apartments?

 

Yes.  Landlords get vouchers for people coming out of drug rehab programs, mental health problems, etc.

 

Are these benefits better than redeveloping the units for Luxery apartments/condos?

Do they get government incentives for allowing them to rent these apartments?

 

Yes.  Landlords get vouchers for people coming out of drug rehab programs, mental health problems, etc.

 

Are these benefits better than redeveloping the units for Luxery apartments/condos?

 

It's like the section 8 program.  They establish a relationship with agencies that send them tenants as soon as they have a vacancy.  So they can in theory make more money (or at least a higher percentage) than a market-rate apartment because they a) never have vacancies and b) never have to fix the place up beyond minimal standards.  I believe that the units are inspected annually and before new tenants move in. 

 

Renovating existing buildings to become market-rate is usually very, very expensive.  It'll often take 10 years to earn a return. 

So basically these problem areas can stay problem areas for essentially eternity?

 

Even if say 10 years when you could theoretically have 2 million dollar condos sit right across the street?

 

It’s weird, in Toronto the section 8 Housing community felt so safe. They were all immigrants but they were so nice and pleasant. For some reason, in cincy you can get mugged and shot when stepping into these communities...

The crummy U.S. social safety net makes those in poverty much more likely to be explosive.

Even if say 10 years when you could theoretically have 2 million dollar condos sit right across the street?

 

Yes.  Non-profits (sometimes secular, sometimes church-associated) often bought up large number of units in the 1970s and 1980s and still hold onto those properties.  That happened with hundreds of units in Over-the-Rhine.  Then there are for-profit individuals who accept the vouchers and often these guys have been doing it so long that they're used to it and don't want to change.  Old landlords are often eccentric people. 

 

One of my cousins who has two young children had to move out of her yuppie neighborhood because somebody was letting his insane adult son live in a very nice house (worth at least $300k).  The guy on more than one occasion roamed the neighborhood with no clothes on.  The police didn't care and the dad didn't care that his son's behavior was motivating people to move away.