I didn't know Portland had a Tram. Something like that would be awesome from Downtown to Mt Adams.

I didn't know Portland had a Tram. Something like that would be awesome from Downtown to Mt Adams.

 

Like from the casino to, say, Eden Park Drive across from the Seasongood Pavilion?

I didn't know Portland had a Tram. Something like that would be awesome from Downtown to Mt Adams.

 

Like from the casino to, say, Eden Park Drive across from the Seasongood Pavilion?

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/04/15/one-citizens-idea-a-gondola-from-casino-to-mt-adams/

I've got a copy of the original tram proposal somewhere, I even have a VHS of the proposal the guy put together.  I can try to dig it out if anyone is interested.

^^ That article Qualls recommended estimates the maximum cost of construction at $7mil (1987 dollars). That seems pretty cheap.

^ Portland's tram was $50 million or so. It travels about 3,000 horizontal feet and about 800 vertical, I think. It crosses above Interstate 5, so I suspect that's not really an issue. There are two counterbalanced cabins, each of which carries 30-40 people in three or so minutes of travel. The fare is $4.00, and you can only pay it at the waterfront because parking is limited at OHSU, which is why they built it -- to conserve land on OHSU's hilltop campus.

 

The Portland Aerial Tram connects its South Waterfront development -- a sort of "Banks on steroids" -- with the Oregon Health & Sciences University campus, which is the largest employer in the state of Oregon. There's a lot of demand at both ends. And a streetcar at one of them.

 

The tram is definitely the high-point on the trips we make out to Portland. There were multiple critics of the project when it was under construction. Its City Council sponsor, Sam Adams, acquired the nickname "Sam the Tram." Then, on the day it opened, Portlanders formed a line two blocks long to take ride it. Now Sam Adams is mayor of Portland, and everyone loves the tram

The idea for a gondola-ride has been tossed around for quite a while--and it's certainly a provocative one!  Several considerations, though...  First, wouldn't the actual vertical ascent of the Cincinnati gondola be less than that of the Portland tram?  Thus, the horizontal distance would need to be longer, wouldn't it?  Not because our city is necessarily less scenic than Portland, but because riders are going want their money's worth if we're talking about $4-5/ride.  The downside anchor somewhere around Arnold's seems fine, but what about a starting point even farther inward--ever so gradually rising in the ascent?  Second, I foresee the hilltop community, itself, resisting such a venture--and the reason is hardly a secret.  Let's just label it "NIMBY" (and for a justifiable reason).  Traditionally, Mt. Adams has been a hilltop enclave all to itself (isolated, to a large extent, by its' height and distance from the downtown core--even though both the old incline and the auto enabled many new faces to venture up there).  Even the venerable Metro #1 bus (long ago nicknamed the "Zoo-Eden" bus) travels there only infrequently and thus presents no real threat of introducing unwanted visitors from the CBD.  But a gondola full of all kinds of people, disgorging them throughout the day and night, would be a legitimate threat to the residents, wouldn't it?  I really don't know.  Certainly the retail would improve for everyone on the hill, but what would the residents say about so many more bodies wandering about their hilltop stronghold?  Like I say, I don't know; after all I would just be another visitor myself. 

^ What's an unwanted visitors? Isn't there tons of bars in Mt Adams that the would love the extra business?

Second, I foresee the hilltop community, itself, resisting such a venture--and the reason is hardly a secret.  Let's just label it "NIMBY" (and for a justifiable reason).  Traditionally, Mt. Adams has been a hilltop enclave all to itself (isolated, to a large extent, by its' height and distance from the downtown core--even though both the old incline and the auto enabled many new faces to venture up there). 

 

Not sure what you mean by this.  My understanding as an outsider is that prior to redevelopment in the 60s/70s (primarily by Towne Properties?), Mt. Adams was pretty rough, and not what you would call an "isolated enclave." I don't think it's something where they would be blocking people going there from downtown or elsewhere. 

Perhaps the unwanted visitors will be carrying armloads of VCRs, like Qualls joked in the Cincinnati Steps book. ;)

An interesting idea. Not unlike the Portland Aerial Tram: http://www.portlandtram.org/

 

One citizen’s idea: A gondola from casino to Mt. Adams

04/15/11 at 3:34pm Written by cweiser

 

 

I got cc’ed on an email to all the Cincinnati City Council members and Hamilton County Commission members. The idea, proposed by William Cilley of Wyoming: Build a gondola linking the coming downtown casino to Mt. Adams.

 

(Full disclosure: Cilley is a friend, though he never mentioned this idea before. More disclosure: I always get lost when I drive to Mt. Adams and can never find a place to park.)

 

Anyway…Here’s what we wrote to city and county leaders:

 

 

source: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/04/15/one-citizens-idea-a-gondola-from-casino-to-mt-adams/

... would be really a neat addition to the city and tie together 2 of Cincy's best entertainment options.

I'd be all for it, but I imagine there would be serious resistance from the COAST crowd.

Yeah, COAST will think they died and went to heaven--remember how they ranted about the streetcar being no more than an "expensive amusement ride"?  Just wait until both COAST and WLW-700 grab on to this one!

Don't let COAST define the boundaries of the debate.

I another thread I suggested a new street connecting downtown to Mt. Adams. Perhaps an extension of 7th street could work. The new street should not intersect with any of the highway ramps and should pass over all of that mess on a new bridge. The new street should be fairly narrow and be pedestrian and bicycle friendly. It should reduce travel times for pedestrians, bicyclists, transit riders, and drivers.

 

The Portland tram only has two gondolas that carry 30 passengers each? Wow. I had no idea. I was imagining more vehicles with a higher frequency, not quite as many as a ski lift or theme park skyway, but at least a more steady flow of passengers. Imagine a bus load of passengers entering Mt. Adams every 10 minutes or so. It's hard to imagine that much demand.

 

Once again, I would like to bring up the typical patterns for most transit systems. Overall, the traffic on just about any transit system is divided by trip purpose something like this:

 

60% between home and work or school.

30% between home and shopping.

10% everything else put together.

 

I have read so many times on this board: "Wouldn't it be great to be able to travel between The Banks and Findlay Market? Between the Stadium and the Casino? Between Downtown Cincinnati and the bars in Mt. Adams? Between Downtown and the Airport?"

 

Yes, it would be great to travel to those places. Unfortunately, as a transit operator, we would be chasing the 10% of traffic, not the other 90%.  I just don't see that much traffic between Downtown and Mt. Adams. Or, put it this way: there are other potential lines with more traffic.

 

The 1976 Exclusive Guideway Plan proposed a new transit line from Downtown with branches in three directions: Covington, Cheviot, and Norwood. Hardly any mention was made of stadiums, casinos, bars and restaurants, or any other entertainment district. It was all about commuting from home to work.

 

I think the Mt. Adams Tram underscores the recent tendency for transport to entertainment districts with  postcard views instead of the more boring commute to work or school. 

 

^Good point, yes. That's why phase 1 of the streetcar is only phase one. It needs to be a part of a larger system. Same goes for future light rail in the area.

 

But I think an aerial tram to Mt. Adams is worth at least considering and much more feasible than an incline.

I another thread I suggested a new street connecting downtown to Mt. Adams. Perhaps an extension of 7th street could work. The new street should not intersect with any of the highway ramps and should pass over all of that mess on a new bridge. The new street should be fairly narrow and be pedestrian and bicycle friendly. It should reduce travel times for pedestrians, bicyclists, transit riders, and drivers.

 

The Portland tram only has two gondolas that carry 30 passengers each? Wow. I had no idea. I was imagining more vehicles with a higher frequency, not quite as many as a ski lift or theme park skyway, but at least a more steady flow of passengers. Imagine a bus load of passengers entering Mt. Adams every 10 minutes or so. It's hard to imagine that much demand.

 

Once again, I would like to bring up the typical patterns for most transit systems. Overall, the traffic on just about any transit system is divided by trip purpose something like this:

 

60% between home and work or school.

30% between home and shopping.

10% everything else put together.

 

I have read so many times on this board: "Wouldn't it be great to be able to travel between The Banks and Findlay Market? Between the Stadium and the Casino? Between Downtown Cincinnati and the bars in Mt. Adams? Between Downtown and the Airport?"

 

Yes, it would be great to travel to those places. Unfortunately, as a transit operator, we would be chasing the 10% of traffic, not the other 90%.  I just don't see that much traffic between Downtown and Mt. Adams. Or, put it this way: there are other potential lines with more traffic.

 

The 1976 Exclusive Guideway Plan proposed a new transit line from Downtown with branches in three directions: Covington, Cheviot, and Norwood. Hardly any mention was made of stadiums, casinos, bars and restaurants, or any other entertainment district. It was all about commuting from home to work.

 

I think the Mt. Adams Tram underscores the recent tendency for transport to entertainment districts with  postcard views instead of the more boring commute to work or school. 

 

 

That boring rail commute to work and school is what puts many cities ahead of Cincinnati in the 21st Century.  A streetcar to Northside through Clifton and past Cincinnati State would hold massive repopulating power in the inner core.  Having Mt. Adams, Uptown, Walnut Hills/Evanston and Northside connected to downtown would make Cincinnati the most entertaining, exciting, tourist-friendly city in Ohio by a mile.  That won't happen with just gondolas to Mt. Adams.  More practical routes of transit serving Walnut Hills/Evanston and Northside would create a city within a city, one that I could see populating to 300k just by itself very quickly, not including the large residential areas of the city like the Westside, College Hill and others.

 

The gondola is a great idea if Cincinnati is able to connect the Art Museum to downtown.  That's another check off of the list of fantastic assets that the city has to work on connecting to downtown via fixed transit.

Yeah, COAST will think they died and went to heaven--remember how they ranted about the streetcar being no more than an "expensive amusement ride"?  Just wait until both COAST and WLW-700 grab on to this one!

 

We should launch an official proposal then.  If it's never built, it acts as a COAST lightning rod, keeping them busy while we finish and expand the streetcar system.  If it does get built, that's just a bonus.

Yeah, COAST will think they died and went to heaven--remember how they ranted about the streetcar being no more than an "expensive amusement ride"?  Just wait until both COAST and WLW-700 grab on to this one!

 

We should launch an official proposal then.  If it's never built, it acts as a COAST lightning rod, keeping them busy while we finish and expand the streetcar system.  If it does get built, that's just a bonus.

 

The way they attack things is pretty sweeping and not targeted. Remember?

I could go for gondolas on the Mill Creek - some development there would be pretty cool.