I've been thinking about this a lot. While Cleveland can claim Case Western Reserve, Cleveland State, John Carroll, she really doesn't have a world class educational institution like she should. No offense to Case Western Reserve, I am sure it would have a more distinguished national reputation if it were located along the east coast, but we really don't have much of an excuse. You would think it (CWRU) would have a top ten medical school overall with neighbors like Cleveland Clinic and University Hospital, but it floats along as just a (good) school) top tier , but definitely not a household name. This status is across the board (Law School and Engineering, too). I am comparing Cleveland with other cities with rich cultural and philanthropic histories: Baltimore (Johns Hopkins), St. Louis (Wash U.), Pittsburgh (Carnegie Mellon, Pitt), Boston  (Harvard, MIT, Boston University), DC (Georgetown, GW, American, Howard (HBCU), Philly (Penn, Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mar), Minneapolis/St. Paul (U. Minnesota, Carleton, Macalester), New York (Columbia, NYU). Why didn't Cleveland become a university town? Just asking? Does anyone agree or understand why?

Good topic.

 

One reason (as I write this, I'm convincing myself this is a big reason): CSU didn't become fully established as a public university until 1964, relatively is very late. Even its creation, they've tended to focus on commuting students and didn't create that dense college town feel because most students didn't stick around after classes. A shift to a residential campus is finally occurring and although I'm very excited to see it, it's decades behind other schools (in terms of developing a residential culture and college town feel) and I don't know what advantages they by starting now instead of in 1960.

 

In line with that, other state schools (esp. Akron, Cin, and OSU) were started earlier and had a chance to develop earlier (and developing an alumni base and raising $ from alumni, one of the biggest sources of revenue for schools...). I would be surprised if state funding for CSU since 1980, say, is more than OSU, AKR, or UC.

 

Not that money is everything, but CSU's endowment is only $43 million, which is peanuts... (The median for all american universities and community college is  $73 million.)

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2010NCSE_Public_Tables_Endowment_Market_Values_Final.pdf

 

 

 

^ They have no advantages in starting now, instead of back in the 60's. Luckily, new leadership has decided to change the original vision though, and attempt to create a more residential campus. I believe that residential culture and the college town feel will automatically happen as more and more students live on campus. I think CSU has one of the biggest potential to become a game changer downtown, and in the city/region overall. It has the potential to become one of the best urban colleges in the nation, which will be a draw to many.

Ohio is university central. Kent, UC, OSU, OU, BGSU, Kenyon, Wooster, Antioch, Wesleyan... I'm sure I am forgetting some. I know many are small and private, but the fact is it's just hard to stick out in the region if you didn't get established in the game early on. UC, OSU, Miami, Kent, and OU pretty much have Ohio's large public school educational needs covered.

 

Yet another large state school may be good for Cleveland, but probably would be more of a drain for Ohio overall. It's one of the problems with being a city in a state with so many cities. Cleveland happens to be the C that missed out.

That is strange that Case Western doesn't have more name recognition than it does nationally. The only Ohio private college I can think of that does is Oberlin; and before it imploded, Antioch (though Kenyon should also be on that list).

Xavier University on the eastside of Cincinnati is a Jesuit school with clout.  To the OP, I would add Cincinnati to your list of distinguished uni towns. Miami is an original "Public Ivy" and UC has numerous top-tier programs such as Music, Medicine and Engineering.  Many Cincinnati kids end up going to the University of Dayton, another Ohio private with a strong reputation.

Case actually is a pretty big university with a lot of students.  It just doesn't connect with the rest of Cleveland very well.  Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights are helped a lot by Case being close by but the City of Cleveland itself has not gained a ton.  With the recent building boom in University Circle this might be changing though.  Case is on the rise though (its medical school is in the top 20, not everyone can be in the top ten) and might start to get more national recognition.

First and foremost, we just can't have subject lines in ALL CAPS :-)

I also feel that our industrial, Midwest factory-infused legacy made higher education not as much of a priority as perhaps other urban centers with white- collar tendencies

It's more of a fluke than anything else I would say.  Most of the schools you listed were founded by wealthy residents of those respective cities or municipal governments (later to be absorbed by state educational systems).

 

Interestingly enough, Cleveland's own Rockefeller gave a huge donation to the American Baptists to found the University of Chicago.  I'm sure there's quite a bit behind that story, but it does make you wonder how things might have been if he given money to found such a school here.

 

We shouldn't sell CWRU short.  It's a very good school and really only a notch below Carnegie-Mellon and Washington University.  We're very lucky to have it.  As for CSU, it will never be on the same level as other municipal universities like the University of Pittsburgh or the University of Cincinnati, let alone the University of Minnesota or The Ohio State University, so maybe it should try to focus on its core mission of educating commuting/non-traditional Northeast Ohio college students.  Kent State University has always been the large, respectable residential university in Northeast Ohio, and I think that's fine.

As for CSU, it will never be on the same level as other municipal universities like the University of Pittsburgh or the University of Cincinnati, let alone the University of Minnesota or The Ohio State University, so maybe it should try to focus on its core mission of educating commuting/non-traditional Northeast Ohio college students.  Kent State University has always been the large, respectable residential university in Northeast Ohio, and I think that's fine.

 

CSU certainly has less prestige than the other schools mentioned, but there's absolutely no reason why it must be relegated to a 'commuter school' status permanently to bow down to KSU. My hope is that CSU continues to become a better school to eventually be an OSU or something on that level.

 

The problem is that most of Ohio's students aren't in or near Cleveland. Even the majority of the students in the region are elsewhere. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_Ohio

 

The total enrollment of CSU, CWRU, Oberlin, JCU, Ursuline, Hiram, and Baldwin Wallace is 38,904. That's less than OSU or Cincy, barely more than Kent. And CSU, with the largest enrollment, is only ranked 10th in overall enrollment, and we know at least 3/4 are commuters. The problem is not just that Cleveland failed to establish a huge university presence (despite several opportunities), but also that there isn't enough of a deficit to really merit establishing a new school in/near Cuyahoga County. Akron and Kent State aren't very far away, and together they have 60,000 students...but they aren't really in/around Cleveland. Close, but not close enough to have a visible, everyday impact on the fabric of the community. Certainly their alumni are everywhere, though.

 

So there is, comparatively, a large deficit compared to Columbus and Cinci. Also, there is a significant prestige gap. CWRU is #38 for undergraduate and has a few programs, particular medicine/biomedical engineering, that do significantly better. Oberlin is #24 for liberal arts colleges. Ashland is #190 for Universities, and Kent is #194. Most of the schools aren't ranked. Compared to most major MSAs, there is a gap there - not always a huge one, but it's there.

 

By the way...Rockefeller offered the money he gave to Chicago to Western Reserve first. They turned him down. Only in Cleveland.

To the OP: yes we need a major university in the city. I think Cleveland States new emphasis on building a real campus will help in a big way. There's a lot of work to do tho in not only improving the campus and academics, but also the perception of the school as second rate.

If we want a major university in Cleveland, then help one of the existing universities build itself up. Major universities are grown. They don't magically appear the next morning. Although one day in the not-too-distant future we may wake up one morning and read an article that all these $10 million, $25 million and $50 million projects that have been occurring over the years have already created the university we wanted. But it happened in such an evolutionary manner that we didn't even realize how important all those "little" projects were.

If we want a major university in Cleveland, then help one of the existing universities build itself up. Major universities are grown. They don't magically appear the next morning. Although one day in the not-too-distant future we may wake up one morning and read an article that all these $10 million, $25 million and $50 million projects that have been occurring over the years have already created the university we wanted. But it happened in such an evolutionary manner that we didn't even realize how important all those "little" projects were.

Ohio State magically appeared thanks to the 19th President of the United States.

 

I agree with you, Cleveland kids have to stay in Cleveland for this to happen though.  Most of them that don't go to Kent disperse to OSU, UC and Miami in large numbers, then promptly exit Ohio after graduation or begin their careers where they graduated: Columbus or Cincinnati.

Ohio State magically appeared thanks to the 19th President of the United States.

 

 

And how long after it was established did it become a major economic force for Columbus? When was CSU established? Wasn't it about 90 years after OSU? That's a lot of catching up to do.

I've said it many times on more than one of these forums.  Football Football Football!  Division I for CSU would be a game changer.  I hate to say it, but in today's media driven times, a world-class athletics program would do more for CSU than all the billboards I see on the 90 in Pennsylvania (which, as a side note, CSU is doing an excellent job of marketing itself in nearby cities like Erie and Buffalo, where they are offering in-state tuition to come to Cleveland). 

 

I would love to see 10 more games a year in Browns stadium with a football program, an infusion of talent and money to the mens basketball program to put it back in the national spotlight again, and a bonafide effort to develop the women's program into a national contender along with it (Save the Wolstein!!!  :-D)

 

30,000 suburban kids living downtown spending mom and dad's money would change Cleveland forever!  :clap:

 

 

I agree, there is no reason Cleveland area kids cant stay in Cleveland, and CSU should not accept a commuter only role, and roll over to other schools in the region. In my high school, most of the students ended up going to Kent State, Ohio State, Bowling Green, or OU. Of course you had few who went to Toledo, John Carroll, Case, Cincinnati, Akron etc., but the majority went to those first four I mentioned. There is no reason Cleveland State cant take some of those students from those Universities. I think the fact that it is an Urban college, right downtown can be a big draw for many of those students.

 

Honestly I could care less if Cleveland State stole a big chunk of Kent State's students. Them being at Cleveland State is better for the city and region in the bigger picture.

 

Edit: To your point above. I believe the Basketball team would benefit by having a football team. This is because Cleveland State would be able to change conferences. I think the MAC would be a good fit to start. Playing area teams could be more of a draw, and when we play Kent and Akron during the season we usually win. I think Cleveland State would have won the MAC this year.

Ohio State magically appeared thanks to the 19th President of the United States.

 

 

And how long after it was established did it become a major economic force for Columbus? When was CSU established? Wasn't it about 90 years after OSU? That's a lot of catching up to do.

 

Are you blaming OSU for Columbus' sluggish growth from 1890-1970? 

 

The Ohio State University was founded in 1870 in a city that was not about to receive an unprecedented European immigration wave that Cleveland did from 1880-1920.  Founding a university in a city that is already an economic force is exclusive from founding a university in a city that wouldn't approach major on its own until the 1990's.  Universities didn't make Cleveland, but Ohio State made Columbus.  Maybe that's why it took so long.

 

 

By the way...Rockefeller offered the money he gave to Chicago to Western Reserve first. They turned him down. Only in Cleveland.

 

Yes, gotta love that one...

 

Are you blaming OSU for Columbus' sluggish growth from 1890-1970? 

 

Nope. I'm saying that trying to use a university to build up your economy takes time, money and patience.

 

BTW, I hate when people say "Only in Cleveland." While a university turning down money is pretty rare and hard to explain, I highly doubt it's never happened anywhere else.

Football would be a monumental money loser for Cleveland State.

 

CSU has traditionally served Cuyahoga County residents first and foremost.  To move away from that, it would have to become more residential.  To become more residential, it would need to increase demand for that, and that would require cutting into the residential enrollments of other schools, particularly Kent State and Bowling Green State, then the big boys like Miami University, Ohio University, and Ohio State University.  Sounds good in theory, but a lot of that is affected by state politics and funding, something that is well beyond our control.  And I'm not sure where residential growth for CSU fits into the USO's plans.

 

Again, bottom line is that Northeast Ohio already has a large residential university.  Bad luck that's located in a rural town in Portage County and not in downtown Cleveland.  But I don't think KSU can or should be cannibalized so that Cleveland can try its hand at the college game.  But it may not even be up to us locally anyways.

 

Also, if there's one thing Cleveland State needs to do, like yesterday, is change the name to the University of Cleveland.  Enough of this "state" nonsense. 

 

Are you blaming OSU for Columbus' sluggish growth from 1890-1970? 

 

Nope. I'm saying that trying to use a university to build up your economy takes time, money and patience.

 

BTW, I hate when people say "Only in Cleveland." While a university turning down money is pretty rare and hard to explain, I highly doubt it's never happened anywhere else.

 

And I don't even think that the Rockefeller story of trying to give money to Western Reserve is 100% fact.  I believe that Rockefeller gave money to the University of Chicago in large part because of its religious affiliation.  Western Reserve University was secular, right?  Doesn't seem like it was an either/or proposition for the wealthiest man in the history of the mankind.

Ohio has too many colleges scattered about for any one (besides OSU) to really stick out.  If everyone's within 1/2 hour of one, which was the goal at one point, that's a whole bunch of them.  Many are in out of the way places, which meshes with Ohio's traditionally rural focus. 

 

And CSU did Cleveland no favors by following a Tri-C development model for its first 4 decades.  At no point did our central city ever need two commuter campuses.  Who else has that?  Nobody.  I'd like to see CSU continue to upgrade itself, but that will mean taking a second look at some of its architectural decisions, as well as continuing to work toward a name change so it doesn't sound like Columbus State and Cincinnati State.  Not easy to draw statewide when your name lets people reasonably assume that you're a community college, or when your new construction looks so much cheaper than what any of your competitors are building. 

 

Some aspects of this problem really are "only in Cleveland" issues and we seriously need to get those fixed. 

 

BTW, I hate when people say "Only in Cleveland." While a university turning down money is pretty rare and hard to explain, I highly doubt it's never happened anywhere else.

 

Does anyone have a good source confirming this even happened?  As far as I can tell, Rockefeller's gift was for a Baptist University, and the American Baptist establishment decided to locate it in Chicago.  Rockefeller did give some money to Case (there's a building named after him), but not sure WRU, Case or any other non-Baptist organization was ever in the cards to be his primary recipient.  That said, it seems as though local Baptists leaders may have nixed the relocation of Denison to Cleveland when Rockefeller offered up some of his Forest Hills property for it, which is a bummer: http://www.rockarch.org/publications/resrep/rose2.pdf.

 

EDIT: looks like Clevelander17 beat me to it.

Well that could be, but I think Archangel is moreso refering to the general discontent that Rockefeller started feeling towards Cleveland that led to him looking for opportunities elsewhere, mainly due to the lack of appreciation he was feeling there.  That alone had pretty far reaching affects. 

 

Cleveland does have a reputation for such things, and thats part of what makes Cleveland so quirky and even a bit endearing, but at the same time miss out on important opportunities.  Whether its a mayor (wife) turning down a dinner at the White House due to it being bowling night, the treatment of John D that had him giving his money to other places and turning his focus to NY, or Peter Lewis who recieved no respect (or even recognition) from City Hall when he wanted to come downtown (theres many other amusing stories that former city employees like to share, that ultimately got the heck out of dodge due to the frustration that they had experienced).       

^I definitely agree that the pathetic insularity of Cleveland's WASP elite has been a liability, even if the lore of specific "missed opportunities" is a bit exaggerated.  For higher ed, I bet the city's proximity and cultural ties to the East Coast has also hurt.  Why endow local institutions when you're allegiance is to Harvard/Yale etc.?  Even while that same elite was happy to pump money into the arts, which is one reason why Cleveland's art museum and orchestra are significantly better than its peers'.  Not too different from other Rust Belt cities.  Case is easily the premier private university in the state, and while it doesn't have the stature as Wash U, CMU, Rice, Emory, etc., it's still a big, high quality, comprehensive institution with a lot of endowment wealth. 

 

For public ed, seems like Cleveland is in part just a casualty of history, not being the capital, not being the earliest settled part of the state, not being the home of any of the early teacher colleges that for better or for worse, got turned into the backbone of the state's public university system.  I don't think CSU should abandon its commuter service, but does seem like some mild rebranding could add a little more dignity and stature to the campus.  More endowment money would also help insulate it from state funding whims.  Hear that alums? :)

Sorry, KJP, you're right of course - 'only in cleveland' is force of habit, and I usually use it in reference to GOOD things... :)

 

And I agree - the solution is to build up CSU and CWRU, not plop down a new institution.