They had two guys on 700WLW today arguing for demolition and replacement of the arena.  Looks like there will be a mini-war for public funds between this and FC Cincinnati just a few years before we get back into it with Mike Brown in the 2020s.

 

Cincinnati would benefit greatly from these complexes being situated next to one another. I am too unfamiliar with the riverfront to know this, but is there room to complete this project anywhere near Great American and PBS?

U.S. Bank Arena owner: Plan is to tear down area, build new 19K seat arena for NCAA tourney

 

A part-owner of U.S. Bank Arena said Wednesday that the current plan to prepare for the 2022 NCAA men's basketball championship includes tearing down the arena and building a new, larger arena in its place.

They had two guys on 700WLW today arguing for demolition and replacement of the arena.  Looks like there will be a mini-war for public funds between this and FC Cincinnati just a few years before we get back into it with Mike Brown in the 2020s.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/sports/college-sports/us-bank-arena-owner-plan-is-to-tear-down-area-build-new-19k-seat-arena-for-ncaa-tourney

^ Cincinnati Islanders has a nice ring to it.

 

Highly unlikely with one new(ish) building in Kansas City and one brand new state-of-the-art in Quebec (which would fit the NHL's geographical likings).  I think the old Nassau Coliseum is being renovated as well and will certainly make a play to get the team back.

They had two guys on 700WLW today arguing for demolition and replacement of the arena.  Looks like there will be a mini-war for public funds between this and FC Cincinnati just a few years before we get back into it with Mike Brown in the 2020s.

 

Cincinnati would benefit greatly from these complexes being situated next to one another. I am too unfamiliar with the riverfront to know this, but is there room to complete this project anywhere near Great American and PBS?

 

There is definitely not enough room for both an arena and a new FC stadium on the riverfront along with our existing two stadiums.

So... tear down the arena and build a new one (cost unknown) to host a first round weekend of an NCAA tournament, in 2022. 

 

No public money for this!!!!

They had two guys on 700WLW today arguing for demolition and replacement of the arena.  Looks like there will be a mini-war for public funds between this and FC Cincinnati just a few years before we get back into it with Mike Brown in the 2020s.

 

Jeff Berding, the GM of FCC, has stated over and over again they're not going to ask for public funds for a new stadium.

It makes no sense to tear down the existing arena, unless you want to build a retractable dome stadium for a newly popular and possible major league soccer team. 

 

Two birds with one stone? 

Jeff Berding, the GM of FCC, has stated over and over again they're not going to ask for public funds for a new stadium.

 

In 1996 Jeff Berding led the campaign to levy a new 1/2-cent sales tax for the baseball and football stadiums. 

Jeff Berding, the GM of FCC, has stated over and over again they're not going to ask for public funds for a new stadium.

 

In 1996 Jeff Berding led the campaign to levy a new 1/2-cent sales tax for the baseball and football stadiums.

 

and he knows there would be no public support for a new stadium being built using public funds because of that deal. Soccer stadiums are much smaller than football and baseball stadiums and therefore require less money to build ($2 Billion for modern NFL stadiums to about $150-200 million for modern MLS stadiums). Berding has said since day one they're not going to ask for money. He's been quoted in several articles about the possible jump to MLS saying they're not going to ask for public funds. The Lindner's have the money to build a soccer stadium here and will not be asking for public funds.

People who are against paying for an upgraded arena need to read this article about the Sprint Center in Kansas City.  Not having a full time tenant has actually lead the Sprint Center to be one of the most profitable arenas in the country as they constantly have events/games booked for the arena year round.  The city voted to pay for the arena with higher hotel and car-rental payments and over the last decade the they've made almost $10 million in profits.  The Sprint Center is operated by Anschutz Entertainment Group who are part owners of US Bank Arena.  Right now US Bank is completely privately owned by Nederlander and Anschutz but if the city paid for a good portion of the upgrade costs it presumably would demand and get a profit sharing deal similar to the Sprint Center.  It should be a no brainier for the city when our portion of the money would be paid for by out of towners staying in hotels rather then a sales tax increase like they did for the Reds and Bengals. 

 

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article4645824.html

U.S. Bank Arena owner: Plan is to tear down area, build new 19K seat arena for NCAA tourney

 

A part-owner of U.S. Bank Arena said Wednesday that the current plan to prepare for the 2022 NCAA men's basketball championship includes tearing down the arena and building a new, larger arena in its place.

The title of that article is complete click bait.  He didn't at all say they were going to tear down the arena, it would be the same renovation plan they released two years ago.  You'd be taking the arena down to it's bones and giving it a new roof but they aren't just going to completely knock it down like the title is saying. 

Cincinnati's revenue from a car rental tax would probably not be very significant since our airport is not in the city. I don't know this for a fact but I would suspect that the number of cars rented in city limits pales in comparison to the number of cars rented at CVG.

 

If the county really wanted to kick in money for either the new US Bank Arena or FC Cincinnati stadium without "raising taxes", they could put an issue on the ballot that would keep the sales tax rate the same but extend the duration. We have about 10 more years until those stadiums are paid off so you could sell bonds now to finance the new stadium and arena, and just extend the tax for another 10-15 years. But I really hope they don't do that.

Cincinnati's revenue from a car rental tax would probably not be very significant since our airport is not in the city. I don't know this for a fact but I would suspect that the number of cars rented in city limits pales in comparison to the number of cars rented at CVG.

 

If the county really wanted to kick in money for either the new US Bank Arena or FC Cincinnati stadium without "raising taxes", they could put an issue on the ballot that would keep the sales tax rate the same but extend the duration. We have about 10 more years until those stadiums are paid off so you could sell bonds now to finance the new stadium and arena, and just extend the tax for another 10-15 years. But I really hope they don't do that.

Yeah the car rental tax wouldn't help us because our airport is in a different state (another frustrating topic) but it would be very easy to raise the hotel tax.  We already have pretty cheap hotels with a lower tax then our peer cities, raising it would only bring us closer to the norm in other places. 

I'm guessing 5/3 Arena is the backup plan if US Bank Arena isn't renovated in time.  US Bank was chosen so UC could potentially play in Cincinnati that year.  UC wouldn't be eligible to play here if the tournament was held at 5/3.

 

I don't think that there's any way it would go to the rehabbed 5/3 arena, which as I understand it is going to have a capacity between 10K-12K after renovation.  These NCAA games are usually in larger-sized arenas, more along the lines of US Bank's capacity. 

 

As for UC being able to play there, check out some of the UC message boards.  Your ability to play there as a school is limited if you play more than 3 games at the site OR if you are the "host school."  (This is why, when the games were in Philadelphia a couple years ago, Villanova made sure to (1) not play more than 3 games at the arena, and (2) the host was actually LaSalle, not 'Nova.)  If UC remains the "host school," they couldn't play at US Bank arena.  I think what would happen would be a transition to a different "host" (e.g., UC's conference, or maybe NKU or Miami.) 

^lets cross that bridge when they renovate it first. I somehow am skeptical they can get it done.

Looks like the plan is a complete tear down. Which is good news IMO.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/04/20/u-s-bank-arena-owner-our-goal-is-to-get-it-torn.html

 

U.S. Bank Arena’s owner now plans to tear down the 42-year-old arena and rebuild it.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/04/20/u-s-bank-arena-owner-our-goal-is-to-get-it-torn.html

 

“Our goal is to get it torn down and rebuilt,” Harris told me of the project that would cost $200 million to $350 million.

 

The original plan called for a renovation, but Harris said as he worked with contractors on the planned massive renovation of the arena it became clear the huge overhaul that extended the building over Pete Rose Way and Mehring Way could be done cheaper by knocking down the arena and starting over.

 

The <a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/07/28/u-s-bank-arena-plans-huge-renovation.html">2015 renovation proposal</a> struck me as over-the-top (literally since they wanted to bust off the roof and expand upwards), so it doesn't surprise me that it would have cost as much as a complete re-build. I understand why they started with a big, sexy plan (might get somebody excited about throwing money at it)... but they could do always pursue a cheaper renovation/update that wouldn't cost $200-$350 million. UC is doing a massive renovation of Fifth Third that is dramatically changing the layout for "only" $87 million. From an ROI perspective, it'd be much easier to justify a $75 million renovation as opposed to a $200 million re-build. Would the more expensive option bring in more than twice as much future revenue? I doubt it.

5/3 isn't as "concrete-ey" as most arenas, including US Bank. There's too many hard points that can't be moved with a lot of these buildings.

Yeah 5/3 is basically one giant room right now. so there's a lot they can do without much demo.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/04/20/u-s-bank-arena-owner-our-goal-is-to-get-it-torn.html

 

Our goal is to get it torn down and rebuilt, Harris told me of the project that would cost $200 million to $350 million.

 

The original plan called for a renovation, but Harris said as he worked with contractors on the planned massive renovation of the arena it became clear the huge overhaul that extended the building over Pete Rose Way and Mehring Way could be done cheaper by knocking down the arena and starting over.

 

The <a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/07/28/u-s-bank-arena-plans-huge-renovation.html">2015 renovation proposal</a> struck me as over-the-top (literally since they wanted to bust off the roof and expand upwards), so it doesn't surprise me that it would have cost as much as a complete re-build. I understand why they started with a big, sexy plan (might get somebody excited about throwing money at it)... but they could do always pursue a cheaper renovation/update that wouldn't cost $200-$350 million. UC is doing a massive renovation of Fifth Third that is dramatically changing the layout for "only" $87 million. From an ROI perspective, it'd be much easier to justify a $75 million renovation as opposed to a $200 million re-build. Would the more expensive option bring in more than twice as much future revenue? I doubt it.

 

the big difference is a college level arena in 5/3 and what needs to be a professional showpiece in US Bank arena, even if you don't have a professional tenant.

 

US Bank arena was renovated very nicely in 1997 but even after the renovation, it was still outdated. The improvements did a lot to help modernize it, but like the old Riverfront Stadium, there were too many structural things for the modern fan that could not be accommodated. The biggest were the lack of luxury boxes in the arena. That has changed the dynamics of arena financing now and is a must. Also, the concourses are much too narrow. Go to YUM, Quicken, Bankers Life or Nationwide, the concourses are very large and wide. There is plenty of room to get around people who are waiting in line for concessions in those arenas. Heck, go to Cintas Center and you can notice a big difference. There are not enough bathrooms, locker rooms, storage, etc. The fact that it seats 18000 in that footprint is amazing. This is why renovation on the existing footprint wont work.

With a complete demo, I'd like to see a better alignment of 2nd Street, E Pete Rose Way, both portions of Broadway, and the Transit Center.

If they are doing a complete rebuild (rather than renovation) why not build the new arena next to the casino? I assume that the casino would be glad to help out with the financing in this situation.

This would be a perfect opportunity to better form partnerships between parties that could benefit from a new arena. I see the perfect space on the surface lot of the casino that could benefit all parties. Give this riverfront space back to development. Continue The Banks east with larger scale residential development and better park space. Rework the street layout down there to be more conducive to human movement.

 

If there's to be a new arena I would never support it being built in this same spot. There's no reason for it to be there. It's a big windowless box that can be just about anywhere. There is obviously the potential benefit of patrons going out to The Banks afterwards, but in practice that doesn't actually seem to be happening all that much anyway.

Obligatory bad photoshop...

 

Barclays Center would fit across the street from the casino. And a larger arena could fit at the surface lot north of the casino.

This Is The Saddest Attempted Stadium Grift I've Ever Seen

^ :clap:

This would be a perfect opportunity to better form partnerships between parties that could benefit from a new arena. I see the perfect space on the surface lot of the casino that could benefit all parties. Give this riverfront space back to development. Continue The Banks east with larger scale residential development and better park space. Rework the street layout down there to be more conducive to human movement.

 

If there's to be a new arena I would never support it being built in this same spot. There's no reason for it to be there. It's a big windowless box that can be just about anywhere. There is obviously the potential benefit of patrons going out to The Banks afterwards, but in practice that doesn't actually seem to be happening all that much anyway.

 

I agree with you. My question is what about parking?( yes everyone hates parking on here). but the banks location has thousands of parking spots to accommodate the new arena. The casino has one parking garage. Where would everyone park? i don't think the surface lots in the area have enough spots and they could be developed on in the near future.

If only there was a mass transit link between Central Parkway and the large parking garage down at the Banks. Also this wouldn't be any more difficult to get to than a UC football or basketball game, which also has limited access to parking. I think people could handle it.

The glorious part of the surface lot north of the casino is that it sits sunken below most of its surroundings. Build a new garage underneath to lift the arena to the height of the intersection of Liberty and Reading and you have solved your parking problem.

I would love if Nederlander and FC Cincy could team together at the Casino site...  Build a stadium with retractable roof and 30k seats, then they can do MLS and Minor League Hockey, concerts, everything and more.  Let the Casino wet their beaks a bit with investment money in it too.  I wish it worked like that but not certain if the soccer team can go with a more multi-purpose type stadium like that...

 

Then I agree, tear down the US Bank Behemoth and sell for residential and office development.  I don't even know if you would need a ton of commercial besides some essential needs type places or maybe put in a Walgreens, fitness club, etc. on the base of two residential towers.

I would love if Nederlander and FC Cincy could team together at the Casino site...  Build a stadium with retractable roof and 30k seats, then they can do MLS and Minor League Hockey, concerts, everything and more.  Let the Casino wet their beaks a bit with investment money in it too.  I wish it worked like that but not certain if the soccer team can go with a more multi-purpose type stadium like that...

 

Then I agree, tear down the US Bank Behemoth and sell for residential and office development.  I don't even know if you would need a ton of commercial besides some essential needs type places or maybe put in a Walgreens, fitness club, etc. on the base of two residential towers.

 

Do any MLS teams play on artificial turf?  I don't follow it that closely....

Some, yes, but it's not ideal. Seattle and New England do for sure. It's harder to attract USMNT games and other international events or friendlies on turf and you often have to bring in temporary grass for those facilities when big games come in.

I think there is a way they can keep grass and still overlay.  Would be more expensive but definitely possible.  A good example I think is Arizona Cardinals Stadium

I would love if Nederlander and FC Cincy could team together at the Casino site...  Build a stadium with retractable roof and 30k seats, then they can do MLS and Minor League Hockey, concerts, everything and more.  Let the Casino wet their beaks a bit with investment money in it too.  I wish it worked like that but not certain if the soccer team can go with a more multi-purpose type stadium like that...

 

Then I agree, tear down the US Bank Behemoth and sell for residential and office development.  I don't even know if you would need a ton of commercial besides some essential needs type places or maybe put in a Walgreens, fitness club, etc. on the base of two residential towers.

 

Do any MLS teams play on artificial turf?  I don't follow it that closely....

 

For a multi-purpose venue, soccer and hockey do not seem like a good fit. Are there any examples of soccer and hockey teams sharing the same facility?

 

As for turf, 5 MLS teams currently play on turf: Seattle, New England, Portland, Minnesota, Vancouver. Atlanta currently plays on grass, but they're moving to a new turf field this summer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Soccer_stadiums

^ I don't know if there are any examples.  I think it's possible though.  I know that the area is much smaller for hockey than soccer, so I don't know how you would get close in seats if it's at all possible.  I don't know dimensions and what not, I think that would be the main issue.  If they could keep the "first row" for soccer fairly high up, then use temporary bleachers or seating for hockey to get close to the ice, and also for NCAA games, etc., I think that could work.

 

I think something similar to how these huge football stadiums do the final four but obviously on a much smaller scale.

^^I think Minnesota is also moving to grass when their new stadium is finished.

I think there is a way they can keep grass and still overlay.  Would be more expensive but definitely possible.  A good example I think is Arizona Cardinals Stadium

 

The University of Phoenix stadium is massive, and they are able to use grass by rolling the entire field out of the stadium. I don't think that's a feasible (or desirable) option in downtown Cincinnati:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix_Stadium#/media/File:University_of_Phoenix_Stadium_field_01.jpg

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix_Stadium

I think there is a way they can keep grass and still overlay.  Would be more expensive but definitely possible.  A good example I think is Arizona Cardinals Stadium

 

The University of Phoenix stadium is massive, and they are able to use grass by rolling the entire field out of the stadium. I don't think that's a feasible (or desirable) option in downtown Cincinnati:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix_Stadium#/media/File:University_of_Phoenix_Stadium_field_01.jpg

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix_Stadium

 

Oh OK, that's right I remember that now.

 

well it looks like even though that's the case they can still use turf in MLS?

The only reason for FCC to build a stadium is because MLS wants their teams/owners to have full ownership and control of the stadium for revenue purposes. Sharing with the casino, Nederlander, or anyone else wouldn't make any sense. Might as well stay at Nippert if you're going to share.

^ Yeah I understand that, I think it is completely idiotic for MLS to do that considering they are leaving a ton of money on the table especially if voters turn down stadium proposals across the USA, they are going to need to get creative to capture market share.

 

Will be interesting to see how this progresses as it seems more and more cities are turned off by paying for stadiums

It's amazing how many public figures don't understand that a soccer field is much, much larger than an ice rink or basketball court. 

I like the idea of moving it near Jack Casino. The two can play well off each other and take advantage of cross-marketing. The riverfront has become a park mecca ... why not extend it to the site of US Bank arena?

^ if you move it away from the river, I personally prefer over by the Convention Center somehow. This way it can be incorporated in to the convention center and used for larger trade shows.

FYI, Jeff Capell (of COAST) and attorney Tim Mara have formed a group called No More Stadium Taxes to preemptively oppose public funding for a new stadium. I expect that they would also oppose funding for US Bank Arena if the owners asked for it.

Went to the Chili Peppers show at USBA this past Friday and it was interesting, was the third time I've seen RHCP play in Cincinnati and in that building. Show was excellent, but the building felt worse than ever. Earlier in the day I was on a Redbike down near Sawyer Point and did a lap around the arena.

 

Some observations:

 

- All of the touring act's buses and semi trucks were crammed in, but were able to fit around the arena. As per usual, one last on Westbound Mehring Way was coned off for parking buses/trailers. I know in the past concern was raised about the Republican Convention potentially being here and having enough room to stage media trucks and while that kind of national press attention would've been challenging, USBA seems to still reasonably be able to accommodate a large, national touring music act.

 

- Stage was set up alongside one end of the floor with only one side of the area's two curves closed off. Earlier in the day, the arena opened up more seats for sale with the crowd fitting in along the edges of the stage. Floor was packed. However, they didn't utilize the full arena so it wasn't at its full capacity. Nevertheless, the amount of people packed into the concourses was awful. The narrow pathways around the arena were jam packed with lines for merchandise, concessions, and the women's restroom. To make things worse, mobile beer vendors were set up everywhere in the concourse forming even more lines randomly in the path of those trying to walk around.

 

- The arena set up port-a-john's out in the fenced off smoking area to offer up more bathrooms. While the men's restrooms didn't have anywhere near the line that the women's did, all of them were disgusting. They all have water (or something else) on the floor. Most of the soap was gone and half the toilet's don't flush.

 

- The signage is the arena is really showing its age. Most of it is still maroon/gold from when it was briefly known as "The Crown" in 96. A lot of the US Bank stickers on those signs are peeling off, probably on top of the Firstar stickers from the previous name.

 

- On the outside, the red and blue paint is starting to really look faded.

 

- In one upper deck section, a large section of seats was blocked off with caution tape.

 

All in all, this building can still technically hold a national touring act and has the capacity for it, but it's an unpleasant experience marred by congestion, outdated facilities, and an apathetic staff. Now more than ever, I think this thing really needs to be replaced. It looks bad on the outside, even worse on the inside.

 

That being said, I 100% agree that no taxpayer money should go to this endeavor. There's no major league tenant, no events we seem to be missing out on (who cares about the RNC, even if we had gotten that it was a 1-time deal), and no public money involved originally. Why the hell does anyone at USBA or Neiderlander Entertainment think taxpayers should contribute?

 

They sell RC Cola there for Christ's sake. You'd think the money they've saved by not selling decent soda would've by far made up for the cost of building a new arena by now.

I think the easiest and cheapest way to improve US Bank Arena would be to build a new enclosure (or multiple enclosures), utilizing the exterior plaza space (which is currently just a featureless, unattractive concrete pad) to offer more room for bathrooms, concessions, services, etc. That would allow them to expand the concourse level, without having to significantly alter the structure of the arena itself. I'm not sure how many additional bathrooms/concessions are really needed, but it might be sufficient to simply build a new "services" wing in the triangular plaza between the Arena and Great American Ball Park.

 

They would need to figure out a way to maintain pedestrian access from the parking garage to Great American Ball Park, but I think that can be accomplished with some creativity without becoming exorbitantly expensive.

 

As has been pointed out, a lot of what the Arena needs is just basic maintenance. So, their first priority should be spending the money necessary to cover the basics (keep bathrooms in good working order). 

I think the easiest and cheapest way to improve US Bank Arena would be to build a new enclosure (or multiple enclosures), utilizing the exterior plaza space (which is currently just a featureless, unattractive concrete pad) to offer more room for bathrooms, concessions, services, etc. That would allow them to expand the concourse level, without having to significantly alter the structure of the arena itself. I'm not sure how many additional bathrooms/concessions are really needed, but it might be sufficient to simply build a new "services" wing in the triangular plaza between the Arena and Great American Ball Park.

 

They would need to figure out a way to maintain pedestrian access from the parking garage to Great American Ball Park, but I think that can be accomplished with some creativity without becoming exorbitantly expensive.

 

As has been pointed out, a lot of what the Arena needs is just basic maintenance. So, their first priority should be spending the money necessary to cover the basics (keep bathrooms in good working order). 

 

KFC Yum! has done a nice job of pushing the services and concourses to the "end-zones" out of necessity of the footprint.

No offense, but really that's lipstick on pig. I thought the pedestrian bridge with neon lighting was a waste of city resources. Didn't Canley even have a ribbon cutting for it.

 

Has the city even talked to Nederlander Entertainment and Anschutz Entertainment Group. AEG is a multi-billion $ entertainment company that owns and operates arenas throughout the world. I would like to know what AEG is expecting, but they could easily upgrade or replace it themselves.

I believe that bridge was one of the last projects to come out of the Mallory administration.