The current pedestrian bridge replaced an existing pedestrian bridge, which you can see in old streetview images:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0984203,-84.5049321,3a,75y,319.15h,92.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUKBNUu2DKAz67lOxI1lwpA!2e0!5s20111001T000000!7i13312!8i6656

That old staircase was rusting through. The new one looks good, and is an improvement. Glad it was done.

A bridge and staircase built in the 70s was torn down around 1999 to permit the reconfiguration of Pete Rose Way and Broadway.  That bridge built around 2000 probably anticipated the imminent razing of the arena so it wasn't well-built. 

Hahaha, so the area is already on its 3rd bridge since the Airborne rollerblade race in 1991.

My friend's boyfriend visited us once from NYC and randomly was like, "there's this old movie from the early 90s" and he didn't even finish before I was like, "Airborn?!" He then asked to see "The Devil's Backbone" to which I had to disappoint him that it was a series of like  a dozen or more locations morphed into one route. I did live right by Ravine Street Market though and showed him the part where they come out of Fairview Park and go down Ravine Street and continued pointing out random locations. He then asked to see the ending location to which I then again had to disappoint him...

The beginning of that sequence is here, at the top of the super-steep Springdale Rd. hill:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2147906,-84.6725077,3a,75y,252.99h,79.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxw1hEomx76_jxc68PoeiGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Around the time the movie was shot, a concrete truck lost its brakes going down the hill and crashed into the creek at the bottom.  The driver died.  After that they installed permanent blinking warning lights at the top.  We moved near the hill when I was about 12 and I biked up and down it many times.  On one memorable occasion, a road biker started climbing the hill right before I turned onto it.  I started pumping on my BMX bike and passed him but then he totally smoked me 30 seconds later.  We were delusional back then -- we were convinced that sheer will power alone made us faster than road bikes, physics be damned. 

Yeah, the Rollerblade racers would have needed wings considering how many times they went back and forth between Ohio and Kentucky if the race was shot in a linear manner.

 

When you  are pedaling 170 bpm on a BMX with standard 43-16 gearing you think you're really wheeling but you are only going 4mph faster than someone pedaling half as fast. But those 4mph win BMX races.

I grew up on Devils Backbone.  Pretty sure not one second of the race was actually filmed on that street. 

Did someone once say on here that was Tony Hawk or something doing the stunts?

A guy I knew at the time was one of the stunt guys. He did the stunt where he goes under the front bumper of the car. I never heard anything about TH being in it.

I don't think Tony Hawk was much of a Rollerblade guy. Those guys never got as famous as the skateboarders, snowboarders, BMX freestylers or the freestyle motocrossers.

A lot of the early pro rollerblade guys were originally pro skaters.  It would have been okay if rollerblades had stayed a minor upstart but it quickly grew to overshadow skateboarding by the mid-90s.  That's when the skateboarding industry banded together to destroy rollerblading.  They attacked it relentlessly in their zines and eventually got it booted from the X-Games. 

 

Since about 2000 things have been back to how they were before 1990 -- just skaters and BMX guys fighting over turf. 

The big change that I saw was motorsports pushing out street luge, sky surfing etc. Yamaha and Subaru have infinitely more money than some cottage street luge fabricators.

I totally forget about street luge.  Incidentally, my brother and I were just reminiscing about ice luges.  Do college students still do that?

No. Pokémon cards.

Wrote an opinion piece about the proposed arena renovations along with a recap of the building's history: http://queencitydiscovery.blogspot.com/2017/06/opinion-new-stadiums-in-cincinnati-part.html

 

U.S. Bank Arena owner proposes $370M redo funded by sales tax

 

The owner of U.S. Bank Arena is pitching a top-to-bottom renovation of the rundown arena that would require more than $300 million in tax money but ultimately hand ownership over to the public.

 

Ray Harris, COO of Nederlander Entertainment, which owns and operates the arena, said Thursday in a sit-down interview with The Enquirer that the $370 million rebuild would tear the current structure down to the existing pad and take two years. It could bring events such as the NCAA men's basketball tournament to the city.

 

The proposal, however, met with immediate skepticism from officials whose support would be critical to making it a reality. Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune said Thursday evening he hadn't heard details of Nederlander's plan and is focused on taking a bigger look at all the region’s needs.

 

Cont

Well that's that for US Bank Arena then. Guessing it gets replaced with a condo tower and maybe someday we try again with an arena up near the casino (with Gilbert's money.)

No harm in allowing people a vote. The auditor values the building at only $9M so Nederlander asking for $35M+ for the current arena so the Port can own the new building seems like a reach. Also, I don't think they should be limited as to who can manage a new arena.

Under the latest Nederlander plan:

 

Voters would be asked to extend for seven years a quarter-cent sales tax now being used to renovate Union Terminal. That would bring in an estimated $313 million.

 

Out of that money, the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority would buy the arena from Nederlander for $35 million to $40 million, meaning it would be owned by the public. The Port would pay Nederlander to operate the arena. Nederlander would lease space there for the Cincinnati Cyclones.

 

Increased events would bring in $34 million over six years, which would also be used for the renovation. After that, the revenue would flow to the Port, which has long sought an ongoing stream of revenue.

 

Over six years, increased parking would bring in $14 million and the admissions tax $9 million. Both would go toward the project.

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/07/14/cincinnati-arena-owner-proposes-370-redo-sales-tax/475341001/

This may actually have a chance at passing considering it does not add new taxes however if there are competing taxes on the ballot, I doubt any will pass

The 5-year tax didn't permit the sale of bonds.  That's why they had to wait several years before beginning on the work -- they're cash flowing it. 

 

So would we be able to break ground right away with a 7-year tax or would we be stuck waiting until year 3 or 4 to pay cash? 

Interesting strategy to extend the Union Terminal sales tax. I thought they would try to tap into the stadium tax.

 

Remember when the Hamilton County commissioners would not even let us vote on a proposal to add a county-wide sales tax to pay for Union Terminal and Music Hall's renovation, because Music Hall was owned by the city, and the county shouldn't be paying for the city's rehab? (It got scaled down to only cover Union Terminal, and other funds and private donations were used to renovate Music Hall.)

 

 

Remember when the Hamilton County commissioners would not even let us vote on a proposal to add a county-wide sales tax to pay for Union Terminal and Music Hall's renovation, because Music Hall was owned by the city, and the county shouldn't be paying for the city's rehab? (It got scaled down to only cover Union Terminal, and other funds and private donations were used to renovate Music Hall.)

 

This is a very potent argument. The makeup of the board of county commissioners has now changed though. Portune was FOR allowing a two building sales tax vote while Monzel and Hartman proposed the single building option. It'd be interesting to know where Driehaus stands on the issue.

personally I would rather see it razed and a new arena built by the convention center or casino

 

It also makes sense why the Port Authority wanted to demolish Cincinnati Gardens since they will become the owner of the new US Bank Arena under this plan. It's almost like somebody at the Port Authority read Randy's article on this topic from 2014. It's just too bad we couldn't also get UC on board as a partner in the new arena.

U.S. Bank Arena owner details potential impact of new facility

 

A new study shows that a $350 million rebuild of U.S. Bank Arena would generate 85 percent greater impact on the local economy than the current arena does.

 

The rebuilt U.S. Bank Arena would likely generate $39 million a year in local economic impact, the study conducted by the University of Cincinnati’s Economics Center found. That’s far greater than the $21 million a year the facility generates now, the study found.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/10/02/u-s-bank-arena-owner-details-potential-impact-of.html

And how much taxes are generated on that theoretical $39 million a year? 

And how much taxes are generated on that theoretical $39 million a year?

 

Which they phrase in such a way so it looks less like the only 18 million more that it MIGHT produce over the current 21 mil, and then only after building the new multi hundreds of million dollar arena for them. Hmmmmm.

 

Honestly, I would much prefer we build a new US Bank Arena than FC Cincy Stadium.  We really need a new arena so we can get some bigger events like NCAA Basketball, etc.  That's something I would be OK with extending the Union Terminal Sales Tax for, but obviously not certain if the county would go for it.

 

The thing is though, Cincinnati is out of game in regards to NCAA games and other big sporting events, not to mention national conventions, etc.  They got to weigh what is more important, this or an expanded convention center

^WRT NCAA games, is US Bank Arena really that much worse than UD Arena, which is five years older but hosts the First Four every year? And wouldn't an NCAA game probably end up at the Shoemaker Center anyway since that's in the process of getting renovated?

Columbus has March Madness games sometimes. It's not that big of a deal.

^WRT NCAA games, is US Bank Arena really that much worse than UD Arena, which is five years older but hosts the First Four every year? And wouldn't an NCAA game probably end up at the Shoemaker Center anyway since that's in the process of getting renovated?

 

Shoemaker Center is too small for the tourney now and does not have the appropriate amount of locker rooms. Neither does US Bank for that matter either.

 

UD Arena has had significant upgrades through the years to maintain tourney ready.

Yeah - I'm a big fan of NCAA March Madness, but the idea of making a huge investment in US Bank Arena to host the first round of the tournament is a bit misguided. Attendance at those first round games is usually paltry. I can't imagine they generate very much in the way of revenue for the host cities (nothing like hosting later rounds, or especially the Final Four, which is now usually hosted in indoor football stadiums).

 

I'm not opposed to renovating US Bank Arena, but I feel like a much cheaper renovation could be done that would modernize it without costing $300+ million to build an entirely new arena.

 

Kansas City doesn't have any large D-1 basketball schools with their own arenas (that I'm aware of). Before the Sprint Center, the city used <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemper_Arena">Kemper Arena</a>, but that is now being renovated into a youth sports complex, so it won't be available for large arena-style events. In other words, in Kansas City, the Sprint Center is the only option for hosting large, indoor events. In Cincinnati, we have Cincinnati Gardens, NKU's BB&T (9,400), Xavier's Cintas (10,250), and UC's Fifth Third (~11,000)... in addition to US Bank Arena.

^Yeah, I wasn't just thinking NCAA tourney but also big events like NCAA Gymnastics, Wrestling, etc. etc.

 

Of course I would hope that a renovated arena would do much better than simply the first round.  I think it could get to the level of Sweet 16 / Elite 8, especially with all the hotels and entertainment options. 

 

If they really could generate $18 million more per year than the current, that is nothing to sneeze at. That said those economic studies aren't the best and simply my opinion, I wouldn't be against extending the tax for a few more years to do that.

 

Lastly and of course I don't think this as a reason to do it but would be a good spinoff, but US Bank is really an incredible eye sore IMO and having something connect better to the Banks and the Riverfront would do wonders to the aesthetic of the area.

It's not just the NCAA tournament, but each individual conference tournament too. The AAC (or wherever UC ends up) could host their multiple day tournament and then you are looking at much larger crowds for a longer period of time. I feel like because Nashville hosted the SEC tournament so many years, it helped to plant the seed of having a fun weekend in Nashville in many fans, especially in the state of Kentucky. I don't like country music and never would've gone to Nashville unless the SEC tournament brought me there, but after going and having a good time I've been back 5 times. That kind of experience is why Nashville, Indy and other popular host cities have such good word of mouth.

A first weekend NCAA tournament would make a killing here.  Look at all the local teams around this area that would be able to come to games here:  UK, Louisville, Xavier, UC, Dayton, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue.  Those are just the ones within a couple hundred miles.  One of Xavier or UC would be the host but all those other teams could possibly play here.  You get just one or two of them (or just UK) and you'd easily sell the place out.  Then you factor in all the money the bars, restaurants and hotels would get that weekend and it adds up to a lot. 

 

The arena is an absolute dump and completely gutting it is the only way to make it nice enough to get acts and events we're currently not getting.  Doing some minor renovation is equivalent to putting lipstick on a pig.  Bringing up all the other arenas that exist in town is irrelevant.  They're too small to host any type of major event and they're all on college campuses.  US Bank is the downtown arena on the front step of our city that's suppose to attract major events into town.  The fact that it is in it's current state is an absolute embarrassment to our city.  We will continue to get left off all major concerts and events until it is updated to a modern facility. 

What concerts are we missing because of US Bank Arena? I would love to know. We get big acts to come through and play it. We don't get all of them, but we never will. Especially when Nationwide Arena (Columbus), KFC Yum Center (Louisville), and Bankers Life Fieldhouse (Indianapolis) are all under a 2 hour drive from Cincinnati. A renovated US Bank Arena will not be better than these three venues, so let's stop pretending that renovating US Bank Arena will somehow bring all of the acts to Cincinnati. We already get a lot of them, and renovating the arena will bring a negligible number of acts over what we have now.

^I don't know Ryan, I agree with you on 99.5% of everything on here, but this one I have to respectfully disagree.

 

I'm not saying there aren't concerts, etc. that we don't get that others do.  There may be some top flight ones we don't get in the winter months, etc., I'm not sure.  But, I think what others have posted with Conference tournaments (AAC & Big East) not just basketball but other Big East sports, NCAA, smaller NCAA Divisions, wrestling (Pro and Amateur), gymnastics, hockey, rodeos, etc. 

 

It would also be big in getting our name out there more nationally to the rest of the nation and even Midwest like Indianapolis already does.

 

The fact remains, sports is huge in this country, and Cincinnati is missing out on a TON of sports on the national scale because of the concrete rectangle on the river

What concerts are we missing because of US Bank Arena? I would love to know. We get big acts to come through and play it. We don't get all of them, but we never will. Especially when Nationwide Arena (Columbus), KFC Yum Center (Louisville), and Bankers Life Fieldhouse (Indianapolis) are all under a 2 hour drive from Cincinnati. A renovated US Bank Arena will not be better than these three venues, so let's stop pretending that renovating US Bank Arena will somehow bring all of the acts to Cincinnati. We already get a lot of them, and renovating the arena will bring a negligible number of acts over what we have now.

Nationwide Arena was opened in 2000 and cost $175 million ($243 million in today's dollars).  Bankers Life was opened in 1999 and cost $183 million ($263 million in today's dollars).  KFC Yum Center was opened in 2010 and cost $238 million ($261 million in today's dollars).  Our new arena at over $250-300 million would be just as if not nicer then all of those arenas. 

 

Just in the last couple of years I know of friends who have gone/are going to those cities for the following because they didn't come to Cincy: Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Coldplay, Kings of Leon, Bruno Mars, Taylor Swift, Mary J. Blige, Maroon 5, The Who, The Eagles, NCAA tournament games, NCAA basketball special event games (crossroads classic and state farm classic), NCAA women's final four, WWE pay per views, political conventions, a counter strike competition (seriously someone went a watched people play video games) ect.  If you actually think we're not missing out on big time concerts and events then you're not paying attention to what goes on at those other three arenas. 

 

Will we get all those acts that currently don't come here?  No, but we'd get some, and more importantly we'd open ourselves up to the opportunity of hosting events that don't even glance at Cincy right now because of how bad US Bank Arena is.  Not to mention it would further improve the banks area.  People bitch all the time about the stadium deals that have "screwed us" yet it transformed the banks from nothing but parking lots into the beautiful space it is today.  Parks, restaurants, bars and office space now exist where nothing did before.  So while the city are idiots for letting Mike Brown include language on us having to pay for updates to the stadium they wised up and didn't allow that into the Reds stadium deal.  Now this US Bank tax they want isn't even a new tax, it's just letting a current one extend for a little longer.  If you want this city to continue to improve then we need to invest in it.  The stadiums deal made the city a better place.  The banks made the city a better place.  The streetcar made the city a better place.  And a renovated US Bank Arena would make the city a better place. 

Just an outsiders perspective on a few things:

 

1. UC, the city, the owner of the arena really screwed the pooch on what a collaboration would've meant for the city of Cincinnati and region as a whole.

 

2. The arena is an absolute embarrassment for a city the size of Cincinnati.

 

3. They need to make something happen no matter the cost; people complain all the time about Nationwide but those people don't realize what that arena actually means to Columbus.  It has helped us attract a number of NCAA events in the upcoming years including a women's final four. And just this past year the women's volleyball national championship.  No matter how nice UC's new arena it won't even come close to being able to host any of those events.

 

4. Do better Cincinnati, you have a great opportunity and a very nice region to show off.

I have probably linked to this UrbanCincy article a few times in this thread, but I think Randy got it right when he wrote this 3 years ago. Cincinnati has too many venues, and most are either too small or too outdated to attract some big events. The solution should be to build a new world-class arena but also to get some of the older venues off the market. I still think that UC should have partnered with either US Bank Arena's owners or the casino to build something that was multi-purpose instead of just used for UC basketball.

3. They need to make something happen no matter the cost...

 

Seriously?  That's the attitude that got us Paul Brown Stadium.

 

Here's the way this works.  Most projects like this, as well as highways, convention centers, or whatever, trot out projections about economic returns.  Let's assume for the moment that those projections are actually legitimate, which is questionable to begin with, but anyway.  The presentation goes something along the lines of "government spends X for project, project generates greater than X in economic impact, ergo project is a win."  The problem is, that's a completely fraudulent analysis.  The government spends all of X in real cash money, but they only get back taxes on the economic impact, not the full amount.  The bulk of that goes to private parties. 

 

So let's say for example a new arena needs $300 million in subsidies.  The lifespan of said new arena is 30 years, and it's expected to yield $30 million/year in new business.  That means there's $900 million in total economic output, which makes it look like a 10 year payback with 20 years and a total of $600 million in free money after it's been paid off.  But hold on, the government isn't getting all of that $30 million/year, just taxes on whatever that is (income, sales, hotel, property, etc.).  So unless all that economic development is taxed at least 33.3% (which it's not) then the deal doesn't even break even.  With so many projects financed this way, it's many levels of government are bankrupt or close to it.  This is the epitome of corporate welfare, or private profit public debt. 

^But isn't that the point. The arenas, or convention centers bring the visitors who spend at hotels and restaurants, i.e. the private parties you speak of. The private businesses use the money to hire workers. Then the municipalities reap the benefit of the taxes - both from income and sales.

 

 

I was watching the Dolphins vs Raiders on Sunday night and the topic came up of their stadium roof. They added a roof to create an enclosed stadium to their existing field, and me and the others watching wondered aloud if this could happen to Paul Brown Stadium.

 

 

If we added a roof over Paul Brown would we still need US bank arena to undergo major renovations or could we use the new indoor stadium for NCAA tournament games, big concerts and conventions? Just a question, and for comparison, the total renovation of "Hard Rock Stadium" was over $300 million, so not exactly a cheap option, but if we could potentially host a Superbowl or Final Four wouldn't it have a higher ROI than just a renovated US Bank? 

I don't think Hard Rock stadium is fully enclosed--they only added a roof over the seating areas. 

 

Anything can be done with enough money--but I don't think a load-bearing roof could be put over Paul Brown for $300 million. 

 

Hard Rock Stadium is NOT fully covered, as the latest renovation simply added an "open-air canopy to shade fans":

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/01/14/miami-dolphins-show-off-sun-life-stadium-renovations/?utm_term=.c63803fbfae0

 

 

I was watching the Dolphins vs Raiders on Sunday night and the topic came up of their stadium roof. They added a roof to create an enclosed stadium to their existing field, and me and the others watching wondered aloud if this could happen to Paul Brown Stadium.

 

 

If we added a roof over Paul Brown would we still need US bank arena to undergo major renovations or could we use the new indoor stadium for NCAA tournament games, big concerts and conventions? Just a question, and for comparison, the total renovation of "Hard Rock Stadium" was over $300 million, so not exactly a cheap option, but if we could potentially host a Superbowl or Final Four wouldn't it have a higher ROI than just a renovated US Bank? 

 

You still would want to have a 20k seat indoor arena for many other events. Not many events can fill a 65k seat arena but the 20k seat arena offers more flexibility.

Metallica sells out US Bank:

https://www.wcpo.com/entertainment/metallica-sets-attendance-record-in-cincinnati

 

So U.S. Bank arena is good enough for more or less the biggest touring band in existence, but not "all of these bands that skip Cincinnati because U.S. Bank Arena sucks". 

 

 

 

Iron Maiden is playing Cincinnati for the first time in over 20 years on August 15th. The last time they had Blaze as singer and it took place at Annie's (1996 maybe? The X Factor tour.). Lawn seats at Riverbend are still normal price but the pavilion is sold out. Prices for pavilion seats are hitting $500-700 each despite the band's ongoing anti-scalping campaign.

Edited January 31, 20196 yr by GCrites80s