January 31, 20196 yr 18 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said: Metallica sells out US Bank: https://www.wcpo.com/entertainment/metallica-sets-attendance-record-in-cincinnati So U.S. Bank arena is good enough for more or less the biggest touring band in existence, but not "all of these bands that skip Cincinnati because U.S. Bank Arena sucks". Metallica does well in Cincinnati for some reason, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't do even better with a bigger, better arena. I have some colleagues who went last night and they all agreed that the arena detracted from the experience. Small concourses, not enough entrances, etc. They were waiting outside in the sub-zero temps for 10 minutes because of the lack of entrances. Also, I went to a dollar beer night for the Cyclones earlier this year and it was bedlam. The lines were backed up into the actual arena because there is no room in the concourse.
January 31, 20196 yr 28 minutes ago, GCrites80s said: Iron Maiden is playing Cincinnati for the first time in over 20 years on August 15th. The last time they had Blaze as singer and it took place at Annie's (1996 maybe? The X Factor tour.). Lawn seats at Riverbend are still normal price but the pavilion is sold out. Prices for pavilion seats are hitting $500-700 each despite the band's ongoing anti-scalping campaign. It's amazing how small all of those bands got in the 90s. I attempted to see LA Guns in early 1997 at a place in Kansas City that was significantly smaller than Annie's. We didn't get in because they carded.
January 31, 20196 yr Has Cincinnati every tried to get a bigger arena and go for a NBA franchise? I don't see that there would be much competition from Indy or Cleveland franchises, and now that Columbus has a NHL team, no threat from there either. Clueless on the history on this.
January 31, 20196 yr In my opinion Cincinnati wouldn't be a good market for the NBA. I doubt Cincinnati can support NFL, MLB, MLS, and NBA, especially with two popular NCAA basketball teams in the region.
February 1, 20196 yr ^ I agree. Xavier and UC both draw very well, and with UC's new (extensively renovated) arena, they both have a quasi pro atmosphere. Cincinnati is right in the center of a pretty incredible college basketball region. Within a 2 hour drive from downtown you have UK, Louisville, UC, XU, Dayton, OSU, and Indiana. As much as I would have loved to have a local NBA team to cheer for growing up, it's probably not very realistic. In addition to the saturation of college ball in the area, corporate support would also probably be stretched pretty thin between the Bengals, Reds, FCC, and the tennis tournament.
February 1, 20196 yr To add to the above mentioned problems. Cinci isn't getting an NBA team before Seattle, and we would need the NBA to expand to 32 (which they don't want to do) just to have a chance at spot #32.
February 1, 20196 yr Cincinnati had an NBA team in what the 1960,s and 1970,s. Do you not remember the Cincinnati Royals NBA team. It had a famous player from the CU college basketball team. I do not remember his name. What was the history and the story of this team
February 1, 20196 yr I was not alive when the Royals were around, but since then, other non-NBA cities have certainly surpassed our media market and demand for a team since the 60's.
February 1, 20196 yr Oscar Robertson! http:// www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Cincinnati_Royals Edited February 1, 20196 yr by Mildtraumatic
February 1, 20196 yr Cincinnati Royals ---> Kansas City Monarchs ---> Sacramento Kings I appreciate that they kept the same naming theme each time the franchise has moved.
February 1, 20196 yr 6 minutes ago, edale said: Cincinnati Royals ---> Kansas City Monarchs ---> Sacramento Kings I appreciate that they kept the same naming theme each time the franchise has moved. Actually they were the Kansas City Kings (they also spilt games with Omaha when they first moved and were called the Kansas City/Omaha Kings). The Kansas City Monarchs were a Negro League baseball team.
February 1, 20196 yr ^Before Cincinnati they were the Rochester Royals. Also Jerry Lucas played with Oscar Robinson in Cincy. Cincy traded Robinson to the Milwaukee Bucks around 1970 and he won an NBA championship with them his first year. I remember the Royals playing one or two games a year in Cleveland when they were in Cincy before the Cavs came into the league in 1970.
February 1, 20196 yr 45 minutes ago, edale said: Cincinnati Royals ---> Kansas City Monarchs ---> Sacramento Kings I appreciate that they kept the same naming theme each time the franchise has moved. Sacramento demolished a downtown mall to build the Golden 1 Center, where the Kings now play. Cincinnati decommissioned our downtown mall and turned it into a parking garage with a "pizza theater" on the ground floor.
February 1, 20196 yr The college season is a lot shorter than the NBA season. College has about 35 games whereas the NBA has 82 regular season games. The NBA playoffs don't begin until the NCAA tourney has been over for 2-3 weeks. But back to bands skipping Cincinnati because we don't have a big enough arena: Can we please put this myth to rest? Every band plays LA and NYC and Chicago on every tour. Every midsized city gets skipped by every other major tour. Big deal. Go pay $10,000 more per year to live in a city where every tour stops every time, pay to travel to see that one show you really want to see, or just shut up about it all.
February 1, 20196 yr Metallica, like many bands used to avoid Columbus. I think they played The Columbus Agora (The Newport) once in the '80s and Buckeye Lake (Legend Valley) once in the '90s and Polaris at some point but played Cincinnati regularly. Shots of Cincinnati and NKY are heavy in the Wherever I May Roam, Sad But True and A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica Part II videos. You can even see them shoot pool at the Mad Frog before it expanded to the second building during Wherever I May Roam. Don't fret, most Metallica videos are forgettable besides One, Enter Sandman and that really crazy one they made for All Nightmare Long. I think the Columbus Agora show was '86 Armored Saint/Metallica W.A.S.P. or Crimson Glory/Armored Saint/Metallica. 1991 US Riverfront Coliseum was maybe The Cult/Metallica or Danzig/Metallica. Then Buckeye Lake '93 was Metallica only (or with Danzig) and 1996 The Crown (Riverfront/Star Bank/FirstStar/US Bank) was Corrosion of Conformity/Metallica with someone else playing like 5 songs first. Around 2000 they started taking Columbus seriously enough that the hotels in Metallica Monopoly are Ohio Stadium. Buckeye Lake Music Center got a new lease on life and became Legend Valley after 2006 when Polaris shut down. Edited February 1, 20196 yr by GCrites80s
February 1, 20196 yr Metallica did play the Kentucky Speedway back in 1999 or 2000. Yes, I remember when that Wherever I May Roam video came out and being certain that that was Riverfront Coliseum. I told people that and they told me to shut up, because no way was Cincinnati cool enough to have a Metallica video shot there.
February 1, 20196 yr Trying to say Metallica is one of the biggest bands touring is pretty laughable. People under 40 could care less about them. It's very easy to look up the events schedule and see what tours skip over Cincy for better arenas in Columbus, Indy and Louisville. It happens every year. If anything I'd say US Bank punches above their weight for how terrible it is but it's still an embarrassment for a city as big as Cincy to have such a dump of an arena. When events like the NCAA tournament and the Republican national convention publicly state they won't come here because the arena is too shitty it is an obvious problem. But the owners won't do anything to it and god knows the city or county won't give it any money so the arena will continue to deteriorate over the coming decades.
February 1, 20196 yr 48 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: It's very easy to look up the events schedule and see what tours skip over Cincy for better arenas in Columbus, Indy and Louisville. It happens every year. I agree a lot of big tours skip over Cincy, but a lot of big tours also skip over Columbus, Indy, and Louisville. Big tours don't always go to all 3 cities and skip us. Thinking we will get every big tour if we build a new arena is misguided IMO. If we build a brand new arena we will probably get a certain percentage of the shows that skip us, but every tour isn't going to go to Columbus, Indy, Louisville, and Cincinnati. We are still going to miss out on a lot of tours. The only cities that get almost every tour are the really big cities (NY, Chicago, LA, etc) and the large cities that are really isolated like Denver. We'll pickup a certain percentage of tours, but I don't think it'll be an overload of big tours suddenly stopping in Cincy.
February 1, 20196 yr Yeah I always was for upgrades to the arena or a new arena entirely over the FC stadium. That said, I think the Arena would have been more public money (though I think we would get much more revenue/event wise out of the arena than FC).
February 1, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, Cincy513 said: Trying to say Metallica is one of the biggest bands touring is pretty laughable. People under 40 could care less about them. It's very easy to look up the events schedule and see what tours skip over Cincy for better arenas in Columbus, Indy and Louisville. It happens every year. If anything I'd say US Bank punches above their weight for how terrible it is but it's still an embarrassment for a city as big as Cincy to have such a dump of an arena. When events like the NCAA tournament and the Republican national convention publicly state they won't come here because the arena is too shitty it is an obvious problem. But the owners won't do anything to it and god knows the city or county won't give it any money so the arena will continue to deteriorate over the coming decades. Not to mention artists have also publicly said they skip Cincy because of the arena. The data show that we do get skipped more compared to other similar sized cities and Metallica playing a show here doesn't really change that.
February 1, 20196 yr Can you point to the data? I would be curious to look at the methodology, and exactly how much is estimated we are missing out on. I would be shocked if it was a significant amount that would warrant a large public investment.
February 1, 20196 yr 48 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: Can you point to the data? I would be curious to look at the methodology, and exactly how much is estimated we are missing out on. I would be shocked if it was a significant amount that would warrant a large public investment. I saw it at a presentation, so no I don't have it on hand. Maybe somebody else here does? But I imagine someone could compile a comparison pretty quickly by just looking at who is playing here compared to Cbus and Indy. Now, whether it warrants public investment (and how much) is a completely different conversation. We have a crappy arena and we get passed up for big events, that much is sure. Whether that's worth rectifying, I think, is an open question. I'd be comfortable with public money for demolition of the current arena and site preparation, as well as infrastructure surrounding it. Maybe even a new garage to replace the East Garage. I don't think we should be full-on paying for the thing.
February 1, 20196 yr Speaking of which, has there been any update on US Bank Arena? I know some sort of decision has to be made or the NCAA bid is going to be lost, per this article. There is a possibility to move it to 5/3rd arena on UC's campus, but parking would be terrible.
February 1, 20196 yr I'd only support public money on a new arena if it was moved away from the river (e.g. by the casino). The coliseum and East Garage are terrible use of riverfront property. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
February 1, 20196 yr 52 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said: Speaking of which, has there been any update on US Bank Arena? I know some sort of decision has to be made or the NCAA bid is going to be lost, per this article. There is a possibility to move it to 5/3rd arena on UC's campus, but parking would be terrible. The NCAA tournament was just a ploy by the owners of the arena to try to get money from the city/county. I don't think we'll be getting to host those games since the arena has not been updated. The NCAA also doesn't play tournament games on campus or in college owned arenas so it won't be moved to 5/3. UD Arena is the lone exception since they host the first four every year and also get first weekend games on occasion.
February 1, 20196 yr ^That’s not accurate. I went to first round games last year that were held at San Diego State. On campus.
February 1, 20196 yr 7 hours ago, Cincy513 said: Trying to say Metallica is one of the biggest bands touring is pretty laughable. People under 40 could care less about them. Statistically they are one of the highest grossing bands in the world. Older fan bases have more money than young ones. So, having established for the ump-teenth time that Cincinnati is never going to get an NBA team, never going to get an NHL team, and won't get better concerts or events from having a "modern" arena, can we just shut down this thread? Edited February 1, 20196 yr by jmecklenborg
February 1, 20196 yr 3 hours ago, DEPACincy said: I saw it at a presentation, so no I don't have it on hand. Maybe somebody else here does? But I imagine someone could compile a comparison pretty quickly by just looking at who is playing here compared to Cbus and Indy. Now, whether it warrants public investment (and how much) is a completely different conversation. We have a crappy arena and we get passed up for big events, that much is sure. Whether that's worth rectifying, I think, is an open question. I'd be comfortable with public money for demolition of the current arena and site preparation, as well as infrastructure surrounding it. Maybe even a new garage to replace the East Garage. I don't think we should be full-on paying for the thing. Do you know who the presentation was given by? Because if it was someone affiliated with USBank Arena, of course their incentive is to say that "bands are skipping Cincinnati because our arena is outdated" so that they can get public money to renovate the arena. I would only trust that if it came from an impartial third party.
February 1, 20196 yr 26 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said: Statistically they are one of the highest grossing bands in the world, as are many of the highest grossing acts. So, having established for the ump-tenth time that Cincinnati is never going to get an NBA team, never going to get an NHL team, and won't get better concerts or events from having a "modern" arena, can we just shut down this thread? You have not proved this at all. Some band playing here that was popular 30 years ago doesn't prove this. On the previous page I listed out concerts and events that didn't come to Cincy but went to peer cities nearby because of their nicer arenas. But you clearly will never acknowledge that fact so really there's no point in discussing it further with you.
February 1, 20196 yr They're awfully popular now if they're grossing $100 million per year, which is what their 2017 tour grossed. They did not tour in 2018. The Rolling Stones made $117 million with just 14 shows. 1. Ed Sheeran - $429,491,502 (99 shows) 2. Taylor Swift - $315,186,362 (48 shows) 3. Beyoncé & Jay-Z - $253,514,983 (48 shows) 4. Bruno Mars - $237,770,168 (100 shows) 5. Pink - $180,402,074 (88 shows) 6. Justin Timberlake - $149,277,272 (76 shows) 7. U2 - $119,203,900 (55 shows) 8. The Rolling Stones - $117,844,618 (14 shows) 9. Kenny Chesney - $114,333,176 (42 shows) 10. Journey & Def Leppard - $97,095,894 (60 shows) Only 3 of the top 10 tours are under 30 or around 30.
February 1, 20196 yr If someone is thinking domestic-only than the Nu-Country/Bro Country acts that are popular in the U.S. only might skew the numbers more heavily to Nu-Country.
February 1, 20196 yr 35 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: You have not proved this at all. Some band playing here that was popular 30 years ago doesn't prove this. On the previous page I listed out concerts and events that didn't come to Cincy but went to peer cities nearby because of their nicer arenas. But you clearly will never acknowledge that fact so really there's no point in discussing it further with you. Metallica was tiny in 1989 compared to what they are now. You sure as hell didn't hear the stadium blasting Seek and Destroy during every other NFL huddle then. Or in 2002 either.
February 1, 20196 yr Yeah Metallica wasn't huge until the Black Album, which hit in 1993 if I remember correctly because I was at summer camp when Enter Sandman was huge. I remember being scared as hell of that One video, and just the album artwork for ...and justice for all was scary. I was old enough by the time the Black Album came out to no longer be scared of them or any other band, although my tastes had drifted toward Danzig and I was still intimidated by Glenn Danzig and his band.
February 1, 20196 yr Enter Sandman came out in 1991 on the eponymous album, Metallica. It was their first song that got major airplay on top 40 type radio, though they could give two craps about that!
February 2, 20196 yr The Black Album and Nevermind came out right around the same time and both were under-ordered by retailers at release despite the strength of the singles. Also at the same time was when SoundScan hit. The sales of the records were initially much smaller than they could have been. I think it took 3-6 months for supply to catch up. Luckily for the bands, the records continued to sell very well for 10-20 years. Even in the early 2000s they were selling 10,000 copies a week. Edited February 2, 20196 yr by GCrites80s
February 2, 20196 yr Also Kill 'Em All, released in 1983, sold 300,000 copies between '83 and '93 but is now at 3-5 million.
February 2, 20196 yr On 1/31/2019 at 8:53 PM, edale said: Cincinnati Royals ---> Kansas City Monarchs ---> Sacramento Kings I appreciate that they kept the same naming theme each time the franchise has moved. Interesting. And Kansas City built the Sprint Center 12 years ago to attract a NBA or NHL franchise. It sits empty with not even a minor league team today.
February 4, 20196 yr On 2/2/2019 at 12:15 PM, Cleburger said: Interesting. And Kansas City built the Sprint Center 12 years ago to attract a NBA or NHL franchise. It sits empty with not even a minor league team today. Not fair to say it "sits empty". The Sprint Center is programmed so many days a year that it is profitable* even without an NBA/NHL team: https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/article4451708.html
February 4, 20196 yr 44 minutes ago, jwulsin said: Not fair to say it "sits empty". The Sprint Center is programmed so many days a year that it is profitable* even without an NBA/NHL team: https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/article4451708.html Yea definitely not a good example. The Spring Center is great. A beautiful arena in an area that has seen tons of development. We'd be thrilled to have the same thing where US Bank Arena currently stands.
February 4, 20196 yr I’d don’t know if a major move (involving public money) for the arena would be wise until FC Cincinnati is settled into their stadium (and content with its small-ish size) and the Bengals are re-signed to Paul Brown (I believe in 2026.) If both of those things don’t happen the best move might be to move FCC to Paul Brown and convert the FC Cincinnati stadium onto an arena somehow. www.cincinnatiideas.com
February 4, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, jwulsin said: Not fair to say it "sits empty". The Sprint Center is programmed so many days a year that it is profitable* even without an NBA/NHL team: https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/article4451708.html True. It would be more accurate to say it "sits there with not a single team," which is what the conversation was about above (attracting a pro sports franchise). Imagine what they'd be doing with another 41 NBA or Hockey game nights.
February 4, 20196 yr 7 minutes ago, thebillshark said: I’d don’t know if a major move (involving public money) for the arena would be wise until FC Cincinnati is settled into their stadium (and content with its small-ish size) and the Bengals are re-signed to Paul Brown (I believe in 2026.) If both of those things don’t happen the best move might be to move FCC to Paul Brown and convert the FC Cincinnati stadium onto an arena somehow. ^ WTF? In what world would any of that make sense? FCC is building their own soccer specific stadium precisely because they don't want to be in PBS (even if the Bengals were cool with it). PBS would still be just as problematic for FCC in 6 year as it is now, and I don't think an open air soccer stadium could just be 'converted' to an arena, either. It would need to be demolished and an arena built in its place, which seems unbelievably wasteful just 6 years after the stadium is supposed to open. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, but this seems like one of the sillier ideas I've ever come across on this forum. Edited February 4, 20196 yr by edale
February 4, 20196 yr The Bengals can extend the lease of PBS for 10 years on the original terms in 2-year increments. They won't be settled on a long-term future in 2026. FC Cincinnati will also not move into PBS in the foreseeable future (by that, I mean in the next 20-30 years). Having them play in PBS is not a realistic future any of us should be thinking of.
February 4, 20196 yr 2 minutes ago, Cleburger said: True. It would be more accurate to say it "sits there with not a single team," which is what the conversation was about above (attracting a pro sports franchise). Imagine what they'd be doing with another 41 NBA or Hockey game nights. Be even more profitable? The Sprint Center is a perfect example of how a public/private partnership can be beneficial for everyone. But our government officials are too stupid to figure out all they have to do is copy this model.
February 4, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, Cincy513 said: Be even more profitable? The Sprint Center is a perfect example of how a public/private partnership can be beneficial for everyone. But our government officials are too stupid to figure out all they have to do is copy this model. There are factors that increase the success Kansas City has in booking acts at the Sprint Center. They are 230 miles away from the next major city with a 1M+ population (closer to Omaha and Springfield, MO, but those are not major cities). Cincinnati is within 100 miles of Indy, Columbus, and Louisville (you could argue Louisville also isn't a major city, though they do have a state-of-the-art facility, so they are going to get some concerts and have a metro area of 1.2M).
February 4, 20196 yr 7 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: There are factors that increase the success Kansas City has in booking acts at the Sprint Center. They are 230 miles away from the next major city with a 1M+ population (closer to Omaha and Springfield, MO, but those are not major cities). Cincinnati is within 100 miles of Indy, Columbus, and Louisville (you could argue Louisville also isn't a major city, though they do have a state-of-the-art facility, so they are going to get some concerts and have a metro area of 1.2M). KC also has no sports tenants, so it's ALWAYS available. Quite a few larger tours rehearse there as well because of this reason.
February 4, 20196 yr On 2/1/2019 at 4:43 PM, jmecklenborg said: They're awfully popular now if they're grossing $100 million per year, which is what their 2017 tour grossed. They did not tour in 2018. The Rolling Stones made $117 million with just 14 shows. 1. Ed Sheeran - $429,491,502 (99 shows) 2. Taylor Swift - $315,186,362 (48 shows) 3. Beyoncé & Jay-Z - $253,514,983 (48 shows) 4. Bruno Mars - $237,770,168 (100 shows) 5. Pink - $180,402,074 (88 shows) 6. Justin Timberlake - $149,277,272 (76 shows) 7. U2 - $119,203,900 (55 shows) 8. The Rolling Stones - $117,844,618 (14 shows) 9. Kenny Chesney - $114,333,176 (42 shows) 10. Journey & Def Leppard - $97,095,894 (60 shows) Only 3 of the top 10 tours are under 30 or around 30. And how many of those came to Cincinnati on their last tour? Sheeran played Cleveland, Columbus, Louisville, Indy, and Pittsburgh. No Cincinnati.
February 4, 20196 yr 17 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: There are factors that increase the success Kansas City has in booking acts at the Sprint Center. They are 230 miles away from the next major city with a 1M+ population (closer to Omaha and Springfield, MO, but those are not major cities). Cincinnati is within 100 miles of Indy, Columbus, and Louisville (you could argue Louisville also isn't a major city, though they do have a state-of-the-art facility, so they are going to get some concerts and have a metro area of 1.2M). Funny enough, Sheeran played KC AND Omaha, but not Cincinnati.
February 4, 20196 yr 14 minutes ago, edale said: ^ WTF? In what world would any of that make sense? FCC is building their own soccer specific stadium precisely because they don't want to be in PBS (even if the Bengals were cool with it). PBS would still be just as problematic for FCC in 6 year as it is now, and I don't think an open air soccer stadium could just be 'converted' to an arena, either. It would need to be demolished and an arena built in its place, which seems unbelievably wasteful just 6 years after the stadium is supposed to open. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, but this seems like one of the sillier ideas I've ever come across on this forum. It may sound silly but the real life situation we’re in now is also pretty silly. We’ll be incredibly out on a limb with 3 single use stadiums for 3 teams. One team has a bottom line obsessed owner in a league talking about expanding to London and Mexico City if concussions and the refs don’t take the league down first. Another team is brand new and building a 25k seat stadium when Atlanta’s soccer team is drawing 60k fans. There’s a lot of risk involved and the arena discussion will be impacted if something goes wrong, if only souring the public’s appetite for these kinds of projects. www.cincinnatiideas.com
February 4, 20196 yr The public already doesn't have an appetite for new stadium and arena projects, which is why the new FCC stadium plan wasn't revealed until the week after the election.
Create an account or sign in to comment