February 4, 20196 yr On 2/1/2019 at 3:43 PM, jmecklenborg said: They're awfully popular now if they're grossing $100 million per year, which is what their 2017 tour grossed. They did not tour in 2018. The Rolling Stones made $117 million with just 14 shows. 1. Ed Sheeran - $429,491,502 (99 shows) 2. Taylor Swift - $315,186,362 (48 shows) 3. Beyoncé & Jay-Z - $253,514,983 (48 shows) 4. Bruno Mars - $237,770,168 (100 shows) 5. Pink - $180,402,074 (88 shows) 6. Justin Timberlake - $149,277,272 (76 shows) 7. U2 - $119,203,900 (55 shows) 8. The Rolling Stones - $117,844,618 (14 shows) 9. Kenny Chesney - $114,333,176 (42 shows) 10. Journey & Def Leppard - $97,095,894 (60 shows) Only 3 of the top 10 tours are under 30 or around 30. A lot of these older bands making money on tour because their fans are older and have more money now. Perfect example is the Rolling Stones, which I had tickets to at Kentucky Derby horse track but couldn't go to at last minute. Expensive. Who the hell is Ed Sheeran? Edited February 4, 20196 yr by Mildtraumatic added an idea.
February 4, 20196 yr 39 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: There are factors that increase the success Kansas City has in booking acts at the Sprint Center. They are 230 miles away from the next major city with a 1M+ population (closer to Omaha and Springfield, MO, but those are not major cities). Cincinnati is within 100 miles of Indy, Columbus, and Louisville (you could argue Louisville also isn't a major city, though they do have a state-of-the-art facility, so they are going to get some concerts and have a metro area of 1.2M). Kansas City doesn't have a major college, so there are no area college arenas to compete with. Cincinnati now has three modern mid-sized arenas to chip away at the business of any big arena. And for the millionth time...many if not all touring bands sign guarantees that they will not play a second show within a defined radius within a year or another defined period of time. Cincinnati is 50 miles from Dayton, 70 from Lexinton, and 100 from Louisville, Indianapolis, and Columbus. There is nothing near Kansas City except UK in Lawrence (about 50 miles away) and U of Missouri in Columbia (about 70 miles away).
February 4, 20196 yr 54 minutes ago, thebillshark said: It may sound silly but the real life situation we’re in now is also pretty silly. We’ll be incredibly out on a limb with 3 single use stadiums for 3 teams. One team has a bottom line obsessed owner in a league talking about expanding to London and Mexico City if concussions and the refs don’t take the league down first. Another team is brand new and building a 25k seat stadium when Atlanta’s soccer team is drawing 60k fans. There’s a lot of risk involved and the arena discussion will be impacted if something goes wrong, if only souring the public’s appetite for these kinds of projects. FCC has no interest in Paul Brown Stadium outside of possibly hosting large international friendlies between two European teams (think Manchester United vs. Manchester City) or the World Cup in 2026 - neither of which would even have FCC players in uniform. The Bengals could pick up and leave Cincinnati in 2026 for Mexico City, and FC Cincinnati wouldn't even consider moving to PBS.
February 5, 20196 yr The Bengals are not going to move. The Bengals have a unique ownership structure -- almost as anomalous as Green Bay's. The Brown Family owns 99% of the team's shares. The only incentive for the Brown family to move is if they intend to sell the team. They already enjoy the best lease terms in the NFL so they have the cash flow of a team in a larger market. Hamilton County will extend those lease terms ad infinitum. 1996 was a COMPLETELY different situation. At that time, the Brown family was the team's majority owner, but there were two significant minority owners who could have worked to undermine the franchise. Mike Brown bought out the last minority shareholder in 2011 with over $100 million in cash. The dude literally sat there for 14 years and waited until he had enough cash to buy out the party with cash, and then did it. He could have borrowed the money earlier but didn't, because he's much wiser than the average heir to a pro sports team. Only 6-7 NFL teams are worth significantly more than the rest. LA now has two teams meaning there is no large cities without teams other than St. Louis and San Diego. Neither move makes any sense for any of the bottom-20 NFL teams. Almost all of the bottom-20 NFL teams have mixed ownership. So plenty of opportunities for minority shareholders to force a majority owner's hand.
February 24, 20196 yr I dont know what your argument here is with major sports such as the NHL and NBA. Just because you dont have one doesnt mean you cant support one. If you guys want one, than own up to one. How do you think Seattle is obtaining an NHL franchise in 2021? Because they want it. The only catch is, they dont even have an arena for it yet. You have an arena, but you dont have any interest in even asking. Make your market. A closed mouth never gets fed. Besides, you have a better chance at an NHL team than acquiring an NBA team based on how stubborn they are with their teams. The NHL was looking for a city like Seattle to even out their Conferences. There may be some moves in either conference after the expansion so be hopeful. I'll give you a hint. The Panthers suck, so do the Coyotes. Good luck cincy. love, CLE (Former NHL franchise of the Cleveland Barons)
February 24, 20196 yr 10 hours ago, tastybunns said: How do you think Seattle is obtaining an NHL franchise in 2021? Because they want it. The only catch is, they dont even have an arena for it yet. You have an arena, but you dont have any interest in even asking. Make your market. Seattle is currently renovating Key Arena, which was lead by a group bringing an NHL franchise there. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-city-council-approves-700-million-renovation-of-keyarena/
February 24, 20196 yr 13 hours ago, tastybunns said: I dont know what your argument here is with major sports such as the NHL and NBA. Just because you dont have one doesnt mean you cant support one. If you guys want one, than own up to one. How do you think Seattle is obtaining an NHL franchise in 2021? Because they want it. The only catch is, they dont even have an arena for it yet. You have an arena, but you dont have any interest in even asking. Make your market. A closed mouth never gets fed. Besides, you have a better chance at an NHL team than acquiring an NBA team based on how stubborn they are with their teams. The NHL was looking for a city like Seattle to even out their Conferences. There may be some moves in either conference after the expansion so be hopeful. I'll give you a hint. The Panthers suck, so do the Coyotes. Good luck cincy. love, CLE (Former NHL franchise of the Cleveland Barons) Where are you getting the notion that Cincinnati is desirous of an NBA or NHL team? I’ve never heard much discussion about either. I think the region is pretty well covered with sports, both at the college and pro level. Cincinnati has 3 pro teams (mlb, nfl, mls), two major college basketball programs, 1 college football team, and a major tennis tournament. There’s only so much corporate support out there, and I don’t think it really feels like there is a need for a 4th pro team, but maybe that’s just my perspective.
February 25, 20196 yr On 2/24/2019 at 12:00 AM, tastybunns said: I dont know what your argument here is with major sports such as the NHL and NBA. Just because you dont have one doesnt mean you cant support one. If you guys want one, than own up to one. Uh, ok, well... interesting you should bring this up because I don't think anyone is saying "Cincinnati wants one" in terms of an NHL or NBA franchise. However, Cincinnatians did want soccer/MLS and have showed up in large numbers these last few years. This market went from being on no one's soccer radar to MLS expansion side in four years. However, in terms of NBA and NHL–these are two far more traditional leagues in established sports. I'm sure there's plenty of people who'd love to have an NBA or NHL team, but no one can be enthused about that (nor can new converts be rallied to cause), because simply it's not going to happen. MLS was a long shot, but the *chance* was there. Neither the NBA or NHL is going to expand to this market so long as Cleveland/Indy exist in the NBA and Columbus exists in the NHL. FCC also benefited from incredibly strong financial backing. Who's ever been the face of an NBA or NHL push? No one with money has ever vied for the NHL since the 70s and the last "influencer" to mention the NBA was a local radio host who hardly had the capital to make it happen. How do you think Seattle is obtaining an NHL franchise in 2021? Because they want it. Not really so much that "they" want it, rather, a group of rich investors want it, have the cash to back it up, have obtained arena renovation promises, and have in turn enthused the public with the idea that the NHL could (and then would) happen. The only catch is, they dont even have an arena for it yet. You have an arena, but you dont have any interest in even asking. They do have an arena. We don't. No modern NHL or NBA team is going to consider US Bank Arena and any "renovation" will still put that building far below modern standards. Make your market. A closed mouth never gets fed. Again, this is ironic considering that Cincinnati has done this with soccer, something they had a chance at. It's not a realistic opportunity with NBA and NHL so close. Besides, you have a better chance at an NHL team than acquiring an NBA team based on how stubborn they are with their teams. I disagree. Neither are likely, but the NHL is never going to allow a Cincinnati team so close to a Columbus market that's gotten better (yet is still struggling). Not to mention, Cincinnati is a historically somewhat weak hockey market. The NBA could at least attempt to tap into college basketball programs and similar market metrics ala the Reds/Indians. Still, Indy is close. Neither league is going to happen. The NHL was looking for a city like Seattle to even out their Conferences. There may be some moves in either conference after the expansion so be hopeful. I'll give you a hint. The Panthers suck, so do the Coyotes. Good luck cincy. love, CLE (Former NHL franchise of the Cleveland Barons) Ironic you'd mention the Barons. How'd things work out for them? Cincinnati had its last chances at NBA and NHL in the 70s. Unless there's a major shakeup in those leagues or a massive shift in interest locally, neither is going to come here. Also note that every time the arena has asked for funds/renovation help they NEVER even attempt to say "oh, well, the NBA or NHL COULD come here."
February 25, 20196 yr Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I keep having conversations about the arena and its goals among people who seem to be befuddled that the City/County/Corporate Backers/Public were so quick to push for FC Cincinnati/MLS, but these groups never show much interest in the arena. So, I'm gonna rattle off a few reasons as to why I think that is and throw an idea out there, would love to hear your thoughts. Why Few Seem To Care: The precedent isn't there. US Bank Arena has always been privately owned/maintained (and rather poorly at that if you've ever been in the restrooms). There's no public involvement now, nor is there a strong case for the public to be involved. The arena STILL can't point out what they're missing. Regular touring acts (WWE, Disney on Ice) still can use the arena. Regular concerts come through. And if we're passed up for concerts, it seems to be geographic issues rather than arena ones (we get some shows that other cities don't get). There's no major league tenant and no hope of one (NBA and NHL aren't coming). In my opinion, the arena has never made its case very well. It always seems halfhearted. And to be fair, they have an uphill battle. But why should anyone care? Why would anyone give public dollars to an ownership that is loaded with cash, yet hardly maintains its existing facility? You could make the argument for FCC (right or wrong, MLS was an easier sell for politicians) because it was popular, in a growing sport, and gains the region huge notoriety. What does a new US Bank Arena really get you? A Tenant That (I Think) Could Work: The WNBA. It's an interesting league. Seems to struggle in some markets, do relatively well in others. In a market like Cincinnati, they'd be the only pro basketball team in town, a unique experience and a unique league. The venue has more than enough seats. You could really market a WNBA club as a true, priority tenant. I'd love to see a team added alongside some arena upgrades (by the owner, not the public) to show that the arena is worth anyone's time.
February 25, 20196 yr Interesting to take in this discussion from a far as I have to depend on local posters comments for perspective and not having experienced the arena in many decades (last time I was in it was a concert in 1976 when it was called Riverfront Coliseum and it was pretty state of the art at the time). From what I can tell the arena, while hardly ideal, currently serves it purposes (especially with its seating capacity) given it does not have a major league tenants. I guess the real issue is that it is presented as Cincinnati's primary indoor facility (despite the newer facilities at UC and Xavier) and in that vein it is probably the worst indoor arena of any major metropolitan area (really having trouble coming up with an example of a metro area of 2 mil or more without a some what newer state of the art facility. Maybe San Antonio but I am not sure.) I guess the real question then becomes is a city really judged by such things or are there more important assets which counter balance it (like two other state of the art outdoor stadiums , good college facilities, having multiple corporate headquarters, having a pretty good art scene and having an intact urban fabric compared to many other cities to name a few of many).
February 25, 20196 yr Greater Cincinnati had the opportunity a few years ago to build a new world-class arena that would serve multiple tenants and help us better compete for big name concerts and conventions. The problem is that our region has a large number of single-purpose arenas and it doesn't make financial sense for any of them to receive a major renovation that would put them into that world-class category. Unfortunately, we did not take that opportunity and one of the multipurpose arena's potential tenants (UC basketball) has now invested $87 million into renovating their own on-campus arena.
February 25, 20196 yr In an ideal world, the arena would be rebuilt or extensively renovated. It definitely would be nice to have a first rate downtown arena, and it's widely known that the arena has kept Cincinnati from getting some large events, like the NCAA tournament games, the democratic and republican national conventions, some big concerts, etc. and the arena is sorely lacking in many key aspects like bathrooms, crowded hallways, long lines to enter events, and more. But without the realistic prospects of landing another pro team, a new arena hardly seems like a priority. Cincinnati just spent a combined half a billion renovating Music Hall and Union Terminal, and is in the process of building a $200 million + soccer stadium. UC just completed extensive renovations to Nippert Stadium and 5/3 Arena, which was almost $100 million itself. I think at the moment, the region is a bit tapped out on big civic projects like arenas and such. Plus, the convention center could stand to be expanded, and the city is trying to build a new convention center hotel, so I think those projects will consume a lot of the energy that otherwise might get spent on updating the arena. Bottom line is, it's just not that much of a priority at the moment. It's a fair point that some people will judge the city by its arena, but you can only do so much at one time. Edited February 25, 20196 yr by edale
February 25, 20196 yr Cincinnati missed the boat on the arena when UC decided to renovate 5/3. The city/county should have pushed UC to use a renovated US Bank and the city/county should have tried to work with the Brown family to make the lease deal more palatable so that UC could have played at PBS on a permanent basis. That ship has sailed and UC is stuck in the AAC because of it. The silver lining is that UC got a renovated Nippert and 5/3 out of the deal and FC Cincinnati probably wouldn't have happened had it not been for the whole Nippert renovation. Honestly, they should try to build a new arena and convention center at the old IRS site in Covington so US Bank could be torn down for more residential units.
February 25, 20196 yr I don't think we should lose sight of the option of the empty land and parking lots to the south of the casino as a potential site for a new arena that could be potential joint venture between Nederlander Group and Rock Gaming (casino owner). Put a new 17K seat arena on that site, next to a casino allows the Nederlander to draw more national music acts, and Rock Gaming the option for potential boxing & UFC events once sports betting is legalized on a state level, which is expected in the near future. If you keep the cyclones as a tenant, even better. Tear down the old US Bank Arena and open up the land to the highest bidder to whomever wants riverfront property in downtown Cincinnati.
February 25, 20196 yr Yeah I think you could still fit an arena by the casino. If they would have built the casino and an arena at the same time they easily would have fit together in that space. The way the casino was built is super annoying to me. There is so much wasted land behind and in front.
February 25, 20196 yr 39 minutes ago, cincymonkey said: I don't think we should lose sight of the option of the empty land and parking lots to the south of the casino as a potential site for a new arena that could be potential joint venture between Nederlander Group and Rock Gaming (casino owner). Put a new 17K seat arena on that site, next to a casino allows the Nederlander to draw more national music acts, and Rock Gaming the option for potential boxing & UFC events once sports betting is legalized on a state level, which is expected in the near future. If you keep the cyclones as a tenant, even better. Tear down the old US Bank Arena and open up the land to the highest bidder to whomever wants riverfront property in downtown Cincinnati. This is by far the best option and plan for a new arena in Cincinnati.
February 25, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, JaceTheAce41 said: Cincinnati missed the boat on the arena when UC decided to renovate 5/3. The city/county should have pushed UC to use a renovated US Bank and the city/county should have tried to work with the Brown family to make the lease deal more palatable so that UC could have played at PBS on a permanent basis. That ship has sailed and UC is stuck in the AAC because of it. UC moving games to US Bank and PBS would not have put them in a major conference. If that was the case, they would've done it in a heartbeat. The board/student body did not want the basketball team leaving campus and instead invested to keep it there.
February 25, 20196 yr It's really a shame how bad it is. I understand the stance on it from the city, but the place just sucks. I was down there for Eric Church this weekend and made a conscience effort not to drink any beer/water/anything within an hour of going in because I knew how bad it was going to be. I'm not going to pretend to be an architect or engineer but if UC can gut an entire arena and create a top notch facility for $87 million, an investment of $50-$100mil from the owners would go a long way. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the NCAA games slated to be played there in 2022. Edited February 25, 20196 yr by tonyt3524
February 25, 20196 yr 45 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said: It'll be interesting to see what happens to the NCAA games slated to be played there in 2022. They won't end up coming here.
February 25, 20196 yr 3 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: They won't end up coming here. There's been discussion about moving it up to UC with them being the "host institution". Not sure if it's going to happen but UC has been talking to the NCAA about it.
February 25, 20196 yr 5 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said: Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I keep having conversations about the arena and its goals among people who seem to be befuddled that the City/County/Corporate Backers/Public were so quick to push for FC Cincinnati/MLS, but these groups never show much interest in the arena. So, I'm gonna rattle off a few reasons as to why I think that is and throw an idea out there, would love to hear your thoughts. Why Few Seem To Care: The precedent isn't there. US Bank Arena has always been privately owned/maintained (and rather poorly at that if you've ever been in the restrooms). There's no public involvement now, nor is there a strong case for the public to be involved. The arena STILL can't point out what they're missing. Regular touring acts (WWE, Disney on Ice) still can use the arena. Regular concerts come through. And if we're passed up for concerts, it seems to be geographic issues rather than arena ones (we get some shows that other cities don't get). There's no major league tenant and no hope of one (NBA and NHL aren't coming). In my opinion, the arena has never made its case very well. It always seems halfhearted. And to be fair, they have an uphill battle. But why should anyone care? Why would anyone give public dollars to an ownership that is loaded with cash, yet hardly maintains its existing facility? You could make the argument for FCC (right or wrong, MLS was an easier sell for politicians) because it was popular, in a growing sport, and gains the region huge notoriety. What does a new US Bank Arena really get you? A Tenant That (I Think) Could Work: The WNBA. It's an interesting league. Seems to struggle in some markets, do relatively well in others. In a market like Cincinnati, they'd be the only pro basketball team in town, a unique experience and a unique league. The venue has more than enough seats. You could really market a WNBA club as a true, priority tenant. I'd love to see a team added alongside some arena upgrades (by the owner, not the public) to show that the arena is worth anyone's time. WNBA really only works in markets with an NBA team because of co-Branding. WNBA is not a profitable league so they need to be subsidized by NBA teams. Again, it is why you really need the NBA in the market to make it work. Maybe that is part of the problem with the WNBA is that they try and tie themselves to markets that do not work for womens bball instead of places like Knoxville, TN where it could work better. I don't know.
February 25, 20196 yr 3 hours ago, edale said: it's widely known that the arena has kept Cincinnati from getting some large events, like the NCAA tournament games, the democratic and republican national conventions, some big concerts, etc. Is it "well known," though? Because, here's the thing: - Political conventions - Realistically you're going to get one (maybe two if you can lure both parties during the arena's lifespan). - I'll grant you the NCAA tournaments, but the final isn't held in arenas anymore (rather, massive adapted football stadiums). - As for big concerts, the arena still has never named specifically who is skipping Cincinnati and for what reasons (other than geography). What physical issue with the arena is keeping some band out and which bands? Red Hot Chili Peppers just played all regional cities and their big arenas (including ours) on their last world tour. Erich Church's arena tour just pulled through last weekend. And Metallica was here not too long ago So, what arena acts are we missing specifically due to the arena? Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've yet to see solid examples and would truly appreciate seeing what acts these are. 14 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: WNBA really only works in markets with an NBA team because of co-Branding. This isn't necessarily the case across the board anymore, though. Vegas will be a telling experiment.
February 25, 20196 yr ^ Outside of Moheegan Sun, there really is no other team yet. That still does not change the fact that the WNBA is not a profitable enterprise on its own yet. Similar to why the NBA is not coming here you figure that any market they would go to without an NBA team would have to be a compelling market from an NBA perspective. Vegas would fit this outlier market. Given Cleveland was not able to sustain a WNBA team with an NBA team in market, I don't know if it makes sense in Cincinnati. So much of the corporate marketing involved buying NBA and WNBA advertising. You had to buy 2 for one In order to prop up the WNBA team. In addition, I don't think WNBA would qualify as an anchor tenant that is sufficient to pay the rent required to justify a new arena. WNBA is like the Cyclones. A nice attraction to keep the arena running, but not enough to demand the prime time slots, which would befit an anchor tenant. UC basketball could qualify as this. NHL, or NBA, but not WNBA. Cincy will never get an NBA team given the college bball passion in the area. I could see an NHL team coming if there is an owner who is passionate enough to bring one here.
February 25, 20196 yr It seems like some of the big shows use some complicated stage rigs that would be hard to pull off in a dated arena like US Bank. The latest Kanye and Drake tours, for example, had their stages suspended from the ceilings of the arenas they performed at, and I would doubt US Bank offers those capabilities. You also have no real luxury boxes or anything except for those little suites that ring the top of the arena. Those boxes are big money makers for arenas, and are a point of emphasis in modern arenas/stadiums. Is there another arena in the country that uses RC f***ing Cola for their sodas?! RC Cola is a sure sign that your arena is janky.
February 25, 20196 yr 4 minutes ago, edale said: Is there another arena in the country that uses RC f***ing Cola for their sodas?! RC Cola is a sure sign that your arena is janky. The Pittsburgh Penguins have RC Cola in their brand new arena (opened in 2010).
February 25, 20196 yr 16 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: Is it "well known," though? Because, here's the thing: - Political conventions - Realistically you're going to get one (maybe two if you can lure both parties during the arena's lifespan). - I'll grant you the NCAA tournaments, but the final isn't held in arenas anymore (rather, massive adapted football stadiums). - As for big concerts, the arena still has never named specifically who is skipping Cincinnati and for what reasons (other than geography). What physical issue with the arena is keeping some band out and which bands? Red Hot Chili Peppers just played all regional cities and their big arenas (including ours) on their last world tour. Erich Church's arena tour just pulled through last weekend. And Metallica was here not too long ago So, what arena acts are we missing specifically due to the arena? Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've yet to see solid examples and would truly appreciate seeing what acts these are. Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeren, Jay Z, Beyonce, Bruno Mars, Pink, Justin Timberlake, U2 In multiple cases the above artists played many similar sized cities on their 2018 tour. Most of them played Columbus, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis. Some of them played Louisville, a smaller city. None of them played Cincinnati. Nick Lachey has specifically said they would not play US Bank Arena if they were not from Cincinnati.
February 25, 20196 yr For performers the biggest issues at US Bank is the lack of premium seating options (less money to be made) and the shitty lockerooms/backstage area. For fans attending events basically everything about the arena is horrible. Terrible entrance/exit setup, concourses are too small, not enough food and bathrooms options, bad seating setup of just huge open area, terrible suites at the top of the arena and everything about the place is dated 20+ years. The place is an embarrassment to the city and the owners are clearly not going to put any money into it.
February 25, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, tonyt3524 said: There's been discussion about moving it up to UC with them being the "host institution". Not sure if it's going to happen but UC has been talking to the NCAA about it. I'd be really surprised if they did. With the renovations at 5/3 Arena, it (like Cintas) is now in the 10,000-11,000 seat range, which is smaller than the typical NCAA sites.
February 25, 20196 yr 14 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeren, Jay Z, Beyonce, Bruno Mars, Pink, Justin Timberlake, U2 Jay Z and Beyoncé played Great American Ballpark in 2014. So did Paul McCartney in 2011. When he came back in 2016 he played...US Bank Arena. https://usbankarena.com/event/2016/07/paul-mccartney 14 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: In multiple cases the above artists played many similar sized cities on their 2018 tour. Most of them played Columbus, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis. Some of them played Louisville, a smaller city. None of them played Cincinnati. Look, I know what I know straight from the horse's mouth. One of my brother's best friends has worked for Nederlander for 10 years. Every artist signs agreements with promotors to not play within a boundary twice within a year. Cincinnati has 3 major cities and dozens upon dozens of venues within 100 miles. If they get a date we don't. End of story, see you next year. The supposedly horrid condition of US Bank arena has nothing to do with it.
February 25, 20196 yr 27 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: Nick Lachey has specifically said they would not play US Bank Arena if they were not from Cincinnati. Nick was also involved with that scam marijuana bill. He's politically connected. Hey Nick, here's $50k to go out an badmouth U.S. Bank Arena.
February 25, 20196 yr ^ Are you trying to argue that US Bank Arena is in good shape? I know we have beaten the whole concert thing to a pulp on UO over the years, and I agree it's hard to know if shows are skipping Cincinnati due to the arena or any number of factors, but I think just about everyone can agree the arena is in bad shape, and is a pretty crappy venue for just about everything.
February 26, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, ryanlammi said: The Pittsburgh Penguins have RC Cola in their brand new arena (opened in 2010). From 2007 to 2010, Jones Soda was the exclusive soft drink provider at Qwest Field (now CenturyLink Field) in Seattle. That's the primary reason they introduced "normal" flavors like cola and lemon lime in addition to the more unusual flavors they are known for.
February 26, 20196 yr 3 hours ago, edale said: ^ Are you trying to argue that US Bank Arena is in good shape? I know we have beaten the whole concert thing to a pulp on UO over the years, and I agree it's hard to know if shows are skipping Cincinnati due to the arena or any number of factors, but I think just about everyone can agree the arena is in bad shape, and is a pretty crappy venue for just about everything. No matter what a new arena is going to look dated 20 years after it is built and there will be calls to build a new one merely because it looks cheesy. If we had built a new arena when Cliff Radel first called for demolishing the Coliseum around 1995 we'd now have an arena that looks as outdated as the Nashville Arena Bridgestone Arena, which opened in 1996. We wouldn't have gotten any more concerts than we did. We wouldn't have gotten an NBA team. We wouldn't have an NHL team. We'd have a smattering of conventions and other events, and that's it, for $300+ million tax dollars.
February 26, 20196 yr 4 hours ago, DEPACincy said: Nick Lachey has specifically said they would not play US Bank Arena if they were not from Cincinnati. Well, uh, outside of Cincy they have to play theaters unless they are in a package tour. They're really not that big 20 years later unlike their peers from back then that can still pack 'em in.
February 26, 20196 yr 13 hours ago, jdm00 said: I'd be really surprised if they did. With the renovations at 5/3 Arena, it (like Cintas) is now in the 10,000-11,000 seat range, which is smaller than the typical NCAA sites. Yeah and that's part of it. New arena capacity is 12,000 with SRO. But how often is an arena completely full for first/second games? Not often. I'm sure while they're considering it, it'll go somewhere else like Indy or Louisville.
February 26, 20196 yr 11 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: No matter what a new arena is going to look dated 20 years after it is built and there will be calls to build a new one merely because it looks cheesy. If we had built a new arena when Cliff Radel first called for demolishing the Coliseum around 1995 we'd now have an arena that looks as outdated as the Nashville Arena Bridgestone Arena, which opened in 1996. We wouldn't have gotten any more concerts than we did. We wouldn't have gotten an NBA team. We wouldn't have an NHL team. We'd have a smattering of conventions and other events, and that's it, for $300+ million tax dollars. Our arena isn't dated 20 years, it's outdated by 40+ years. Having just gone to the Bridgestone Arena last March it is way nicer then US Bank Arena. I've easily been to 30+ different arenas across the country for sporting events or concerts and US Bank is by far the worst one. Even arenas built in the 90's are still setup much better then US Bank which was built in the 70's. By then they had figured out that having one giant bowl of seats is not a good viewing experience for fans. They figured out that arenas need more suites and premium seating sections that are closer to the floor. Technology was created where seating sections can move to better fit crowds for different types of events (basketball is different then hockey which is different then concerts). They figured out that concourses need to be big enough so people can comfortably walk around. US Bank got an "upgrade" in 97 that was the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig. New seats were installed and a new video board was added. Nothing was done to the poor setup of the arena. Arenas and stadiums built in the 70s (or older) that still exist today either have had some massive upgrades or they're complete dumps like our arena. There's a reason why the Reds and Bengals don't plat at Riverfront anymore and there's a reason why UC just spent a bunch of money upgrading their arena. Things that were built 40+ years ago become functionally obsolete unless major upgrades are performed.
February 26, 20196 yr Elton John is bringing his farewell tour to US Bank arena on Wednesday night. That’s pretty big. www.cincinnatiideas.com
February 26, 20196 yr 8 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: US Bank got an "upgrade" in 97 that was the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig. Always heard it speculated that the "upgrade" was just to get more money out of the sale of the land for when the Reds would eventually need the space for their new riverfront ballpark... ...then they just wedged GABP in there and said "hey neighbor, nice new seats!"@edale - Good point about the physical rigging of stages. Could most definitely see that. I guess my frustration, though, stems from the fact that the arena can never point to a specific act that didn't come and then a specific reason as to why they didn't come. As @jmecklenborg pointed out–regardless of arena age, Cincinnati competes geographically with promoters. I think everyone here agrees that US Bank Arena is outdated, old, generally bad, etc. and that a new arena would be nice. However, without a prime tenant (and no argument on missing out on acts/conventions), there's never going to be a case for public $ any time soon.
February 26, 20196 yr The upgrade in 97 was because the owner of the Cyclones at the time was able to get control of it on the very cheap. At the time the Cyclones were in the IHL and drawing 10k a game to the gardens. By owning USBank, he now unlocked additional revenue streams to bolster his bottom line. In addition, drawing 10k a game would easily allow it to pay for itself and he could have a decent arena for his hockey team and then supplement with concerts and other events. The problem was that the Robinson family who owned the Gardens did not want to lose their revenue stream so they brought in the Ducks and it divided the ticket base. The Robinson family had a much lower operating cost at the Gardens whereas with the newly renovated US Bank arena, the lower attendance made it hard to compete at US Bank. Around the same time, the IHL started to flounder and eventually folded completely a few years later. Without the Cyclones, or the diminished Cyclones averaging 4k fans a game, it made it hard to cover the debt on the renovations and the facility went to bankruptcy in 2001.
February 26, 20196 yr 16 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: Look, I know what I know straight from the horse's mouth. One of my brother's best friends has worked for Nederlander for 10 years. Every artist signs agreements with promotors to not play within a boundary twice within a year. Cincinnati has 3 major cities and dozens upon dozens of venues within 100 miles. If they get a date we don't. End of story, see you next year. The supposedly horrid condition of US Bank arena has nothing to do with it. You keep saying this but I still don't buy it, sorry. It doesn't pass the sniff test. Ed Sheeren, for example, played Cleveland, Detroit, Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Nashville, and Buffalo. Literally every other big city within hundreds of miles. He played Milwaukee and Chicago, which are right next to each other! He played Seattle and Tacoma, which are in the same MSA! He played Minneapolis and St. Paul. Twin cities! So I guess these agreements only apply to Cincinnati. Edited February 26, 20196 yr by DEPACincy
February 26, 20196 yr 7 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: You keep saying this but I still don't buy it, sorry. It doesn't pass the sniff test. Ed Sheeren, for example, played Cleveland, Detroit, Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Nashville, and Buffalo. Literally every other big city within hundreds of miles. He played Milwaukee and Chicago, which are right next to each other! He played Seattle and Tacoma, which are in the same MSA! He played Minneapolis and St. Paul. Twin cities! So I guess these agreements only apply to Cincinnati. I think the big question is: is the economic impact of providing public money to renovate or rebuild USBA worth the additional benefits by a couple of extra big concerts every year?
February 26, 20196 yr If the city or county is going to provide any public funding to renovate Us Bank then it should receive some percentage of the profits. The owners of US Bank have agreements like that in place in multiple other cities. If they are just wanting a handout but continue to keep all the profits that's obviously not likely to happen.
February 26, 20196 yr 4 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: I think the big question is: is the economic impact of providing public money to renovate or rebuild USBA worth the additional benefits by a couple of extra big concerts every year? That is a fair question, and I think it is the one we should be asking. I think if the city provides money they need to receive something in return, as @Cincy513 said. But to claim that we're not getting skipped over for a lot of big shows I think you have to completely ignore the actual facts. Out of the biggest 10 tours last year, I think one came here if I remember correctly. Most of our other regional peers had 8 or 9 of them come. There's an obvious disparity that only applies to Cincinnati. So either it is the arena or it is something else. We can speculate what that something else might be, but artists have actually complained about the arena so I'll go with that.
February 26, 20196 yr A spreadsheet of the biggest arena tours in the US over the last 3 years with neighboring cities and Cincinnati listed would be awesome. We could actually visualize this. Color-coded to show which cities landed each tour. I'm not doing it, because I have no time. But it would help settle some of the argument.
February 26, 20196 yr 10 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: Literally every other big city within hundreds of miles. That's the point. In some cases it will make sense for artists to play two shows in some MSAs, like Chicagoland which has 9.9 million people, or in more isolated parts of the country. But it usually doesn't make sense to play every city in the Midwest when cities are only 100 miles apart. If an artist plays Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville, and Pittsburgh on a tour, most of their Cincinnati and southern Ohio fans are going to attend one of those shows. Adding a Cincinnati show will only dilute ticket sales at the other shows. On Radiohead's tour last year, they played Detroit, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh ... meaning Indianapolis and Louisville got skipped. In past tours they have played Indianapolis and skipped Cincinnati. All of those decisions were made based on regional draw, not on the conditions of the venues in those cities and how nice they were for fans.
February 26, 20196 yr Also, to back up what Jake is saying: How the Music Industry Uses a Pervasive Secret Weapon to Keep Bands From Freely Touring A radius clause is a common component of the contracts artists sign when they agree to play a show, especially a major music festival. These clauses create restrictions on how long that artist must wait before and after that show to play in the same market, and how many miles outside of that market they must go to play another show within that time frame. For example, a band may sign an L.A. festival set contract stipulating that they are not allowed to play within 150 miles of Los Angeles for two months before or after the event, which would prevent them from playing for four months in L.A., Palm Springs, San Diego and any other venue inside this geographic net. Mileage and time vary between promoters, with some particularly severe clauses extending hundreds of miles and a few covering entire regions of the United States. One L.A.-based festival stipulates that an artist is not even allowed to announce any other shows until the festival has sold out.
February 26, 20196 yr 8 minutes ago, taestell said: That's the point. In some cases it will make sense for artists to play two shows in some MSAs, like Chicagoland which has 9.9 million people, or in more isolated parts of the country. But it usually doesn't make sense to play every city in the Midwest when cities are only 100 miles apart. If an artist plays Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville, and Pittsburgh on a tour, most of their Cincinnati and southern Ohio fans are going to attend one of those shows. Adding a Cincinnati show will only dilute ticket sales at the other shows. On Radiohead's tour last year, they played Detroit, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh ... meaning Indianapolis and Louisville got skipped. In past tours they have played Indianapolis and skipped Cincinnati. All of those decisions were made based on regional draw, not on the conditions of the venues in those cities and how nice they were for fans. But my point is that the theory seems to affect Cincinnati much more than other cities. Why was Cincinnati the only local city left of the Sheeren tour? Why was it the case with Taylor Swift as well? Jay-Z and Beyonce? Sure, sometimes other cities in the area get left off. But it is much more prevalent with Cincinnati.
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