Dream Plan: Build the arena on the other side of I-75 on the west side of the city. Bridge it over the highway to the convention center. Have the court/hockey rink face east to west with a nice glass atrium on the arena that faces downtown. Take the former USBA spot, move Pete Rose Way over a little bit so you can fit rail to the transit center and have the rest be an extension of Sawyer Point with a prominent memorial to The Who concert victims.

 

I couldn't agree more, that part of town needs some serious help. I believe its pretty much an industrial area, however the use of land, road networks, and just overall appearance of the place is pretty awful, especially considering how much of a significant piece of the cbd it once was. If you ask me, it would be ideal to see an arena here to be an anchor for the area, since it has so much potential being by the river, as well as between downtown and the beautiful 8th street viaduct. However I think the city should really consider a FWW like transformation of 75 between 4th and 8th streets west of downtown to make this really beneficial.

Ironically Crosley Field (though not an arena) was part of the West End long ago.

UC played in US Bank Arena (then Riverfront Coliseum) from 1976 to 1989. Not sure if attendance was any good, but for the most part neither were the teams.  Off site plus a good team is a good combination.

UC played in US Bank Arena (then Riverfront Coliseum) from 1976 to 1989. Not sure if attendance was any good, but for the most part neither were the teams.  Off site plus a good team is a good combination.

 

Does that mean you are supportive of a new arena?

 

If DanB is supportive, there may actually be political will. (The B stands for "barometer".)

 

Frankly, I am skeptical of the financial benefit of the whole thing. If a corporation would pay for it (like Nationwide apparently did in Cbus), I'd be all for it. Western & Southern would be the most likely candidates, since they are development-happy at the moment, but they probably wouldn't do it if they couldn't put it on Arch Street or over the ruins of the Anna Louise Inn. All kidding aside, the last place they would put it is west of downtown, which as I've made clear is my preference for a location.

I'm for a lot of things if done right! All the excuses against an off site arena really never applied since the team sucked. I was for a nice on campus arena before they built the Shoe. Now they have trouble filling it, even with a pretty good team. I would just worry about the Bearcats putting enough people in the seats for either sport if they are off campus, and the reason wouldn't be on campus students.

 

And it's weird having two Shoes in Ohio.

And it's weird having two Shoes in Ohio.

 

Or even one in Kentucky.  ;)

Isn't that why its called a toothbrush?

I really can't see UC leaving campus. There was an interesting article a couple years that traced UC's big basketball success directly to the quality of their on campus arena. The sixties teams rose to the top with the Armory Fieldhouse and then Huggins teams with the 'Shoe. I think the question to ask about UC is have they paid off all the Lindner Athletic Village yet, because they lost a lot of clout and budget space on campus after that the budget exploded on that.

 

I like the West End. I actually think an arena at the old Milacron site would be an interesting possibility.

We could always put an arena in Butler County and pitch a team as being more regional, hoping to draw more people from Dayton on a regular basis.

^In my opinion, that's exactly what they should've done with an NHL team. Granted, JHM fought to have the Blue Jackets in Columbus and I'm a fan and think that's great. However, I think if you had this modern arena in that suburban area of West Chester and called the team the "Ohio Blue Jackets" or Ohio anything - you'd be able to pull from Dayton, Columbus, Cincy and all stops in between. The access would feel more regional.

 

That being said... I'm a big Blue Jackets fan, love Nationwide and I love Columbus.

 

I grew up near West Chester. It sucks.

^In my opinion, that's exactly what they should've done with an NHL team. Granted, JHM fought to have the Blue Jackets in Columbus and I'm a fan and think that's great. However, I think if you had this modern arena in that suburban area of West Chester and called the team the "Ohio Blue Jackets" or Ohio anything - you'd be able to pull from Dayton, Columbus, Cincy and all stops in between. The access would feel more regional.

 

That being said... I'm a big Blue Jackets fan, love Nationwide and I love Columbus.

 

I grew up near West Chester. It sucks.

 

I've said this before on the Columbus threads and they did not take kindly to it, but they still should rename the Team the Ohio Bluejackets. You lose zero Columbus fans and pick up potentially hundreds of thousands of new fans around the state.

^I agree and while I don't want to deviate from the topic at hand too much, I never understood why they don't do all of their preseason games in Cincy and Cleveland. Play the pre-season in these cities, make tickets cheap and make it a good time while promoting the hell out of the team. Encourage people in these cities that they need to get to Columbus to see it.

 

As far as arena's go: what soda should a new arena carry?

 

US Bank Arena carries RC Cola. The RC Logo on advertisements goes well with the water stains in the ceiling.

Ale 81 and Sioux City Sarsaparilla

^I agree and while I don't want to deviate from the topic at hand too much, I never understood why they don't do all of their preseason games in Cincy and Cleveland. Play the pre-season in these cities, make tickets cheap and make it a good time while promoting the hell out of the team. Encourage people in these cities that they need to get to Columbus to see it.

 

As far as arena's go: what soda should a new arena carry?

 

US Bank Arena carries RC Cola. The RC Logo on advertisements goes well with the water stains in the ceiling.

 

Jones Soda was the official beverage of the Seattle Seahawks for a few years; then they switched back to Coke or whatever. Jones produced a cola and lemon-lime specifically for the stadium.

I like the idea of putting a new arena west of the convention center and incorporate it into an expansion of the convention center over I75.  I believe that the whole area of that section of I75 should be capped and allow downtown to flow into that area.  It has the same issue that FWW did to downtown and the riverfront. 

^I agree and while I don't want to deviate from the topic at hand too much, I never understood why they don't do all of their preseason games in Cincy and Cleveland. Play the pre-season in these cities, make tickets cheap and make it a good time while promoting the hell out of the team. Encourage people in these cities that they need to get to Columbus to see it.

 

As far as arena's go: what soda should a new arena carry?

 

US Bank Arena carries RC Cola. The RC Logo on advertisements goes well with the water stains in the ceiling.

 

Jones Soda was the official beverage of the Seattle Seahawks for a few years; then they switched back to Coke or whatever. Jones produced a cola and lemon-lime specifically for the stadium.

 

That's awesome. As far as beverages go, both the Gardens and USBA offer Hudy. USBA even has it on tap. I'm glad to see some local options available. GABP offers some Moerlin, but I wish these venues had more local flavor. Every other city I've been to, their baseball stadiums are all about the local beers.

 

I like the idea of putting a new arena west of the convention center and incorporate it into an expansion of the convention center over I75.  I believe that the whole area of that section of I75 should be capped and allow downtown to flow into that area.  It has the same issue that FWW did to downtown and the riverfront. 

 

I know I brought up that point the other day, but I had to run out to my parent's house this evening and went through that stretch of I-75. It's actually quite a huge span to gap, but I could still see it happening.

If you remember the late-90s plans to expand the center, the plan was to go over I-75, but the price was around $500 million.  The expansion to Central Avenue cost $150 million. 

 

Convention centers are definitely NOT a built it and they will come sure bet in the second tier cities, and we're no doubt lucky to have not built that huge expansion. 

^ Correct, competition for shows is incredibly fierce. One of the main reasons Columbus' convention center is so large is that it sees a lot of "state shows" due to its central location and Ohio's large population.

Completely disagree with the idea we should not expand our convention center. If anyone works in events around town they know the Convention center is maxed out due to its size. Events call Cincinnati but say, never mind, too small.

 

And that colombus arguement is bizarre. Cincinnati's Metro is significantly larger. Very few places say, let's go somewhere where we draw less because it's centralized. We have potential to draw MORE with Lex, Lou, Indy, Day, and Cbus all in at most 2 hours. Cbus can't draw that many people in that short of a drive, BUT they have the bigger facility so they get the conventions.

^Having worked in the convention and trade show industry in the past both in Columbus and Cincinnati, when I say "state show", I mean things like "Ohio Association of ________". Often, it's things like dentists, school boards, libraries, churches etc. To participate, members have to be from Ohio. They generally find that attendance for these is highest when they hold the events in Columbus (or Dayton, if they find a facility they like). These state shows make up a large portion of the convention and trade show industry in Columbus. Without them, our facilities would not be as extensive.

 

With that said, yes, Cincinnati's Convention center is still too small to attract really big shows; I believe it's 1/3 the size of Columbus'. But, the city should not throw itself on a knife or spend too much money on a center that may or may not attract enough growth to pay the bills. The people who make these decisions need to do extensive research.

^ Gotcha. 

Was in Columbus this weekend for the games. The city was absolutely buzzing with the tourney gamaes and obviously 80 degree weather didn't hurt.  Nationwide arena is stunning and the arena district has a lot going on and is nicely located b/w downtown and SHort North.  Made everything very walkable and created a real buzz.  In talking to a veteran MSU fan, he said Columbus and Indy are two of the better locations while places like Dayton and the MEadowlands are two of the worst.  The isolation doesn't allow for congregations before and after the game and spreads everyone out.  This is why Butler/Warren County would not be a good option IMO.  I actuallly think the elbow of Central Parkway could work.

Kaid Benfield, who writes a great blog for the NRDC about sustainable development and smart growth, just put up a post about the walkability of the arenas of the teams remaining in the NCAA tournament.  Fifth Third Arena holds its own, but the Schott at OSU doesn't fare so well.

 

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/madness_the_sweet_16_decided_b.html

 

 

 

Was in Columbus this weekend for the games. The city was absolutely buzzing with the tourney gamaes and obviously 80 degree weather didn't hurt.  Nationwide arena is stunning and the arena district has a lot going on and is nicely located b/w downtown and SHort North.  Made everything very walkable and created a real buzz.  In talking to a veteran MSU fan, he said Columbus and Indy are two of the better locations while places like Dayton and the MEadowlands are two of the worst.  The isolation doesn't allow for congregations before and after the game and spreads everyone out.  This is why Butler/Warren County would not be a good option IMO.  I actuallly think the elbow of Central Parkway could work.

 

UD Arena was foolishly built off campus at I-75 instead of on or directly near campus in order to give suburban fans easy access. It's early 1970s-era opening didn't really consider anything other than suburban commuters.

 

Amazingly, despite its far-flung location across the river from campus and inconvenient location for students, UD still is regularly among the top 25 in college basketball attendance.

 

Great arena (the best college basketball venue I've been in); lousy location.

UD Arena was foolishly built off campus at I-75 instead of on or directly near campus in order to give suburban fans easy access. It's early 1970s-era opening didn't really consider anything other than suburban commuters.

 

Amazingly, despite its far-flung location across the river from campus and inconvenient location for students, UD still is regularly among the top 25 in college basketball attendance.

 

Great arena (the best college basketball venue I've been in); lousy location.

 

I'd argue it's a bad arena and bad location.  It is impossible to watch the game unless you're near the floor.  That is why they've installed large screen TVs to display the action on the court for the fans to actually be able to follow the game.  The only reason the games are packed is that Dayton has no professional sports and sports starved Daytonites lap up the tickets.

 

P.S.  I went to UD for my undergrad and almost never made it to the arena due in large part to the location.

I realize how many irons Cincinnati has and needs to have in the fire just to catch up to the 21st century, however, I can't accept that a new arena, college+pro or not, should not be a priority for the City.  Tens of millions don't count for anything anymore?

 

This is all quasi-rhetorical, but not in the pejorative sense.

I can't accept that a new arena, college+pro or not, should not be a priority for the City.

 

Could you just clarify this, I'm not quite sure if you mean a new arena should be priority, or should not be priority?

I can't accept that a new arena, college+pro or not, should not be a priority for the City.

 

Could you just clarify this, I'm not quite sure if you mean a new arena should be priority, or should not be priority?

He means it should be.

UD Arena was foolishly built off campus at I-75 instead of on or directly near campus in order to give suburban fans easy access. It's early 1970s-era opening didn't really consider anything other than suburban commuters.

 

Amazingly, despite its far-flung location across the river from campus and inconvenient location for students, UD still is regularly among the top 25 in college basketball attendance.

 

Great arena (the best college basketball venue I've been in); lousy location.

 

I'd argue it's a bad arena and bad location.  It is impossible to watch the game unless you're near the floor.  That is why they've installed large screen TVs to display the action on the court for the fans to actually be able to follow the game.  The only reason the games are packed is that Dayton has no professional sports and sports starved Daytonites lap up the tickets.

 

P.S.  I went to UD for my undergrad and almost never made it to the arena due in large part to the location.

 

The NCAA would vehemently disagree with you - as would most college basketball fans. The NCAA isn't in the habit of tossing their prized tournaments (men's and women's) to bad arenas. (See: US Bank Arena) In fact, UD Arena is so good that it is the only arena with its relatively small capacity in a small city that is allowed to regularly host games. It is, by far, the best college basketball venue in the state. It wasn't built to host dual hockey/basketball teams like Value City Arena or US Bank Arena; it wasn't built to host concerts or circuses; it wasn't built primarily for a pro team like Nationwide or Quicken Loans; it wasn't built to host meetings or banquets or weddings like Cintas. It is for college basketball - plain and simple.

 

I already criticized the 1970s pro-suburban thinking that led to its location.

 

And the reason they installed the video boards is because the NCAA requires it of all hosting venues. UD had to have them in order to keep the tournament and they are among the reasons why the arena will host the First Four again next year, in addition to the second and third rounds. Your assertion that they were installed for people in the upper arena to watch the games is completely incorrect. In fact, you can't even see them in full from the top seven or eight rows due to the curvature of the roof.

 

As for Dayton fans going to games because there are no professional sports: Give me a break. It's not like Dayton is situated in the middle of nowhere like Casper, Wyo. Dayton is within an easy hour's drive from the Reds and Bengals - neither of which really overlap the college basketball season anyway. A large portion of Reds and Bengals season tickets belong to Dayton-area residents. Furthermore, Cincinnati has no NBA or NHL which are really the only leagues that impact college basketball, so you can't use that as an excuse for Cincinnati fans' lack of attendance at UC games.

 

To dismiss UD fans and their passion for the Flyers the way you just did is just ridiculous.

^Agreed.

 

Plus, DaytonIANS themselves rarely go to Flyers games (mostly alumni and residue from that in suburban ____).  We go to Dragons games :).

I'd say that UD Arena is a good place to watch a game in the lower bowls, but the views from the upper levels is not so great. 

 

I also think that there is little doubt that UD Arena is now among the smallest to be in the rotation for the "second and third rounds" (I hate that!), like they will be hosting next year.  It will be very interesting to see if UD Arena continues to get tournament games if they stop hosting the play-in games.  (Not that I've heard anything saying they would, but in years like this, it forced the Flyers to go on the road in the NIT when they otherwise would not have to.)  My guess is that they would not; a quick glance at the other sites shows that nearly all of them were in much larger, professional arenas that held closer to 20,000 people (like Nationwide in Columbus, or the Rose Garden in Portland, or the place in Nashville, etc.). 

I'll stick with Newport... to any non-Cincinnatian, Newport and Covington are just as much of the "urban core" as downtown or over the Rhine is. The Jets/Giants play in New Jersey and is the statue of the chick with the torch is too... who cares?  Northern Kentucky and it's roughly 70k of urban residence should be embraced.

 

If an arena is ever built, it needs a draw... the local, inherent Cincy pessimism will never allow an "new" Cincy NBA, NHL whatever team succeed... without decades of bureaucracy and government intervention.

 

Kentucky... just the name, is a draw... that's why the race track is there.

 

Having the ONLY NBA team in Kentucky, right there in Newport would be a regional draw, not only for Kentucky, but for greater Cincinnati. It could be huge. Again, Newport is part of that urban core, like it or not, OR IT WOULDN'T BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE... NOR WOULD COVINGTON. Can you imagine the draw of rabid kentucky basketball fans... plus you know UK would play a few games a year there too... hell Lexington always draws better concerts because of Rupp...

I don't know for whom the name Kentucky is a draw. Your New Jersey comparison is pretty apt, since both are states which are the butt of many jokes. Just adding the -tucky suffix to anything is considered an insult. (e.g. I've heard people from the northeast call PA west of Philly "Pennsyltucky".)

 

That said, I don't think the idea of giving KY a basketball team is half bad. Put the KY name on it, and it will draw people from all over the state, in addition to those from SWO. Probably the most likely to succeed way of bringing an NBA team to the region. I don't believe getting an NBA team needs to be any kind of major priority, though.

I am more and more convinced that the "central parkway elbow" location is a great option. How about pitching this as a new Bearcats arena, to be built in conjunction with the streetcar line extension up to UC?

 

As much as I would love to root on the Kentucky Colonels NBA franchise, I am in no mood to hear another argument for how NKY "gets it done" while Cincy sits on its hands.

As much as I would love to root on the Kentucky Colonels NBA franchise, I am in no mood to hear another argument for how NKY "gets it done" while Cincy sits on its hands.

 

I think that myth has been quite debunked over the last 10 years given the success of The Banks, Queen City Square, all the East End development, OTR revitalization, downtown developments, etc.

 

 

While KY hasn't sat still, they have been hit hard with a number of bumps in the road....Ovation, Covington Landing, the Mike Fink, nearly empty RiverCenter and Madison Place,  NOTL still nowhere near full, etc.

Millennium Bell!!!!

 

The new arena could go next to the Millennium Bell and be called Millennium Arena.

I'll stick with Newport... to any non-Cincinnatian, Newport and Covington are just as much of the "urban core" as downtown or over the Rhine is. The Jets/Giants play in New Jersey and is the statue of the chick with the torch is too... who cares?  Northern Kentucky and it's roughly 70k of urban residence should be embraced.

 

If an arena is ever built, it needs a draw... the local, inherent Cincy pessimism will never allow an "new" Cincy NBA, NHL whatever team succeed... without decades of bureaucracy and government intervention.

 

Kentucky... just the name, is a draw... that's why the race track is there.

 

Having the ONLY NBA team in Kentucky, right there in Newport would be a regional draw, not only for Kentucky, but for greater Cincinnati. It could be huge. Again, Newport is part of that urban core, like it or not, OR IT WOULDN'T BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE... NOR WOULD COVINGTON. Can you imagine the draw of rabid kentucky basketball fans... plus you know UK would play a few games a year there too... hell Lexington always draws better concerts because of Rupp...

 

I would be fine with our local NBA/NHL team playing its games in a new arena built in Newport or Covington if the team's name was still Cincinnati.

 

If it's Kentucky or the Northern Kentucky "whatevers," forget it.

nobody will fund a large Arena without a regular tenant.... the only way we get that is NBA and the 36 home games...  UC's 15 home games will not cut it, plus the shoe is a great on campus arena.

 

It has to be large enough (25k+) to attract regional NCAA events and headliner acts. The only other place I would put it is directly over I-75 tied directly into the Convention Center to get it to that magical million plus square footage.  This should be fairly easy with the Brent Spence Reconfiguration.

 

The other stuff suggested is nice, but business must be profitable... UC would need a lot of money to leave campus, since the shoe-5/3 is probably a revenue generator. The Convention Center expansion facet would make it interesting for the larger cause.

nobody will fund a large Arena without a regular tenant.... the only way we get that is NBA and the 36 home games...  UC's 15 home games will not cut it, plus the shoe is a great on campus arena.

 

It has to be large enough (25k+) to attract regional NCAA events and headliner acts. The only other place I would put it is directly over I-75 tied directly into the Convention Center to get it to that magical million plus square footage.  This should be fairly easy with the Brent Spence Reconfiguration.

 

The other stuff suggested is nice, but business must be profitable... UC would need a lot of money to leave campus, since the shoe-5/3 is probably a revenue generator. The Convention Center expansion facet would make it interesting for the larger cause.

 

yo, where should I start?

 

nobody will fund a large Arena without a regular tenant - it happened in Kansas City

the only way we get that is NBA and the 36 home games - add St Louis, Columbus that did it with NHL, not NBA

UC's 15 home games will not cut it- what about Louisville?

the shoe is a great on campus arena - not really, in fact UC folks have begun chirping about new digs

It has to be large enough (25k+) to attract regional NCAA events and headliner acts - 18k to 20k would be fine

Convention Center expansion facet would make it interesting for the larger cause - agree 100%

 

 

 

 

 

I understand your point, but those are essentially one horse towns...OSU...U of L and 2 anonymous pro teams. One saddle for one horse with a unanimous draw. Not going to happen here.  UC is better off renovating a shoe they already can't fill and history shows if it's not on campus the people won't come aka gardens and riverfront.

 

We can repeat the failure of our NBA and AHL past or use all of our resources to make the most business sense...

 

And as a diehard Bearcats fan, I can even admit that the most popular college basketball team in greater Cincinati  is not UC... Or Xavier..

 

 

It's defiately big Blue... And an Enquirer or online poll would prove it

If cash were not an issue, I would love a new downtown arena as another jewel in the crown, but all things considered it should be a low priority.  UC needs (and wants) to stay on campus and even if they did move downtown, the finances still wouldn't pencil too well (agree too as below with the one horse town comment, though I would differ on the UK comment; on the KY side of the metro for sure, but unless you are an alum, I have not noticed a big UK fan base north of the river).  While Louisville's KFC Yum Center mentioned above is a killer place and I can not speak to if it has rejuvenated the area, it is quickly becoming a financial disaster, see the link below.

 

KFC Yum Center Article:  http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120319/BUSINESS/303190112/Profits-below-expectations-for-KFC-Yum-Center?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE

It has to be large enough (25k+) to attract regional NCAA events and headliner acts.

 

25k+?? The two largest NBA arenas (Detroit & Chicago) are just over 21k. Sacramento is the smallest at 17k. Add about 2k to those numbers for concert seating.

For our market, 19,000 would be perfect. Pretty sure USBA holds 15,000.

Maybe they can gut the whole US bank Arena. Tear out the outer walls and extend it to install 5000-10000 more seats and box seats. That will be about 100 million. It's doable with today's engineering.

And considering there is 0 chance of an arena going at the corner of Central Pakway & plum as seems to be the top location on this thread) the riverfront or UC's campus is most likely (unless Kentucky goes all out for a team and for some reason puts it in Nky over Louisville.

 

The central parkway location borders  single family home zoning and has no where near the appropriate parking. It doesn't fit into the character of that are either.

I understand your point, but those are essentially one horse towns...OSU...U of L and 2 anonymous pro teams. One saddle for one horse with a unanimous draw. Not going to happen here.  UC is better off renovating a shoe they already can't fill and history shows if it's not on campus the people won't come aka gardens and riverfront.

 

We can repeat the failure of our NBA and AHL past or use all of our resources to make the most business sense...

 

And as a diehard Bearcats fan, I can even admit that the most popular college basketball team in greater Cincinati  is not UC... Or Xavier..

 

 

It's defiately big Blue... And an Enquirer or online poll would prove it

 

 

 

Lance McAllister just conducted that poll on his blog and it wasn't close even close. UC by far got the most votes. And in the most hated poll, UK was first, followed by OSU then U of L then Xavier.

Wanted to revive this with the recent scuttlebutt about UC moving to USBA.

 

I'm personally a fan of putting an arena in Uptown bound by WHT and Corry to the north and south and Jefferson and Euclid to the East and West. It would be on the streetcar line, walking distance to UC, and would accelerate the development along Short Vine and make it a powerhouse in terms of a regional entertainment district.

 

Perhaps some deal could be worked out with Nederlander (who owns USBA and the Cyclones), Pres. Ono and the UC BoT, the developers in Uptown, and the owners of the Corryville land in which Nederlander sells the USBA land to the city for 3CDC or private developers and a new arena gets built with UC and the Cyclones as the primary tenants.

 

Thoughts?

^Seems unlikely given University Plaza is currently undergoing renovations.

 

Perhaps some deal could be worked out with Nederlander (who owns USBA and the Cyclones), Pres. Ono and the UC BoT, the developers in Uptown, and the owners of the Corryville land in which Nederlander sells the USBA land to the city for 3CDC or private developers and a new arena gets built with UC and the Cyclones as the primary tenants.

 

Thoughts?

 

I thought AEG took it over?