Does this improve the timeline or preserve it?

Its an ugly, anti-pedestrian street that belongs in a zombie chase scene that is devoid all life, soft edges and human warmth. It doesn't belong in a downtown that's trying to become part of downtown residents' living room. I would like to see these new developments as the trigger, reason, motivation, excuse to finally improve a setting such as this. You don't have to like or prioritize them. But I will continue to point out downtown settings that have more in common with a dried up flood control canal than a street of life.

 

 

Ha ha!  Couldn't there be a constructive, business-friendly way to promote conversion to ground level retail?  Tax incentives? 

 

Street-killing architecture has a dramatic, negative effect on any city - we all know that. We should incentivize change any way possible. Get creative. Or even penalize the owners of the dead zones if need be.

 

If this increases available storefronts then sure, more vacant space (as X said) but the rental costs should go down even more. Then with cheaper rents, another whole class of small businesses can afford to front the risk and have access into the market.

 

Wow, if everyone had that kind of response, nothing would ever get done. An ugly, anti-pedestrian street that belongs in a zombie chase scene that is devoid all life, soft edges and human warmth is a priority target for me. It may not be for you. But I don't think it belongs in a downtown that's trying to become part of downtown residents' living room. I think these new developments are a trigger, reason, motivation, excuse to finally improve some ugly streets, much like the Avenue District was to trigger the make of East 12th. I will continue to point out downtown settings that have more in common with a dried up flood control canal than a street of life.

 

Come on, now!  I didn't say we shouldn't work to improve the Downtown public realm, or anything of the sort.  I said that resources are limited, and we have to prioritize (whatever you may think).  I'd rather see the money that would go to a "Walnut Ave Streetscape Project" go to a more prominent street, like Superior, or East 9th, or St. Clair, or W. 9th, or W. 3rd, or East 6th, or Ontario.

Perhaps you're thinking streetscape. I'm not. I'm thinking of having land uses for pedestrians alongside the street. There is nothing along Walnut except walls. I don't think there's another street downtown that's so barren. If there is, please point it out to.  The streets you mention have more uses along them -- something to remind them they're not being chased along the bottom of a featureless drainage channel like in Terminator 2! :)

 

 

OK, now on to some more fun -- our regularly scheduled program!

 

Eight Cuyahoga County projects to receive Ohio historic preservation tax credits

By STAN BULLARD

1:46 pm, December 20, 2012

 

The $66 million conversion to apartments of the former East Ohio Gas headquarters building at 1717 E. Ninth St. in downtown Cleveland is the largest of eight projects in Cuyahoga County to receive allocations in the ninth round of the Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credits program.

 

The Ohio Development Services Agency announced the tax credit awards this morning at a news conference in the building. In the latest round of the tax credit program, the state approved almost $36 million in tax credits to 23 owners and applicants to aid the rehabilitation of 45 historic buildings throughout Ohio.

 

Willoughby-based K&D Group was awarded a credit of $5 million to help fund converting the vacant East Ohio building, which dates from 1959, to 223 apartments. Doug Price, K&D Group CEO, announced Huntington Bank has agreed to provide a mortgage for the project, but did not disclose its size.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20121220/FREE/121229980#

Wow, if everyone had that kind of response, nothing would ever get done. An ugly, anti-pedestrian street that belongs in a zombie chase scene that is devoid all life, soft edges and human warmth is a priority target for me. It may not be for you. But I don't think it belongs in a downtown that's trying to become part of downtown residents' living room. I think these new developments are a trigger, reason, motivation, excuse to finally improve some ugly streets, much like the Avenue District was to trigger the make of East 12th. I will continue to point out downtown settings that have more in common with a dried up flood control canal than a street of life.

 

Come on, now!  I didn't say we shouldn't work to improve the Downtown public realm, or anything of the sort.  I said that resources are limited, and we have to prioritize (whatever you may think).  I'd rather see the money that would go to a "Walnut Ave Streetscape Project" go to a more prominent street, like Superior, or East 9th, or St. Clair, or W. 9th, or W. 3rd, or East 6th, or Ontario.

 

Totally agree.  And the fact there is no retail frontage, why would you want to be there even if it were pedestrian only.  Maybe in the future perhaps, but bigger fish to fry no doubt...

That's my point. There is no reason to be there. Provide some. Then we can discuss streetscapes. I don't want a streetscape.

 

This street needs "uses" along it that require doors and glass and light and awnings and some planters and tables/chairs and humanity. And when I mean doors, I don't mean garage doors!

All that stuff is streetscape, KJP.

All that stuff is streetscape, KJP.

 

Streetscapes typically involve changes to the horizontal surfaces and those few that go beyond that involve some change of exterior decorations to the buildings. Although I have never written about a streetscape funding a physical change to the interior of a structure. In other words.....

 

http://www.sustainable-city.org/Plan/Parks/defs.htm

Streetscapes. City passageways: streets, boulevards and alleyways. They encompass public spaces such as roadways and sidewalks, semi-private spaces such as residential front yards and commercial terraces, and include the street trees, flower-boxes and planters that enhance these spaces.

 

 

For example, the Kamm's Corners streetscape....

 

 

 

Or at most, a streetscape can include a change to a vertical surface but I've never seen one of these funded and still called a streetscape. It's a facade rehab....

 

 

 

Instead -- THIS is what I'm talking about -- inserting new, pedestrian-oriented uses into one or more parking garages along that street. Maybe not this many commercial spaces are warranted along Walnut (although a continuous string like this sure would be nice!). But I think a few are warranted and they could provide some important new revenue while serving/attracting pedestrian activity for the roughly 2,500 people who are coming to that neighborhood between the four new apartment uses and AmTrust. Note how basic the horizontal surface is here too, like is on Walnut, with no enhancements etc. While it would be nice to see an extension of Perk Park up Walnut, that's the throwaway portion for me. Rather, I my priority change is something like this....

 

I agree with KJP!

EDIT: I've taken this thread off-topic, but there's been no news on this project since last week. So that's when my mind wandered. So let's put this apartment conversion development aside until we have some news again.

I was gonna post this in the Ameritrust thread but I can't find it. Ok the East Ohio building is 275 and 21 stories and is supposed to 223 apartments which is great. The disconnect for me is the Ameritrust tower is 383 feet (100 ft. Taller than East Ohio) and 29 stories (7 stories taller) but is only getting 215 apartments. How is the Ameritrust so much larger but is getting less apartments? Will the apartments house more people (More 2 bedrooms) or what? I'm confused here

^You have to compare square footage per floor and layout of each floor.

^You have to compare square footage per floor and layout of each floor.

 

Exactly. The Breuer Tower (former Ameritrust and Cleveland Trust) is much more slender building.

 

I was gonna post this in the Ameritrust thread but I can't find it.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,20128.0.html

 

 

 

 

^You have to compare square footage per floor and layout of each floor.

Thank you

Here are some pictures of the interior; certainly some great views:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63837784@N08/sets/72157632420384955/

love the views, especially the ones to the west. also its not nearly as rough inside as i expected

My favorite Views (Is the second one a Panorama?)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63837784@N08/8342560134/#in/set-72157632420384955

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63837784@N08/8341512917/#in/set-72157632420384955

What's the history of that ground floor space with the funky curvy ceilings?  I know the space next to it was last a restaurant.  Was the curved ceiling space a clothing store?

I believe it was a small auditorium.  I think I attended an event there in the early 1990s.  That is a pretty awesome ceiling.  I hope the space survives the conversion, but not sure if K&D can sacrifice any ground floor retail revenue.

Awesome. More movement........

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2013/crr02-04-2013.pdf

 

Board of Zoning Appeals

601 Lakeside Avenue, Room 519

Cleveland, Ohio 44114-1071

216/664-2582 - Fax: 216/664-3281

 

February 4, 2013

 

 

9:30

Ward 3

Calendar No. 13-01:

1717 East 9th Street

Joe Cimperman

13 Notices

 

1717 East 9th Street LLC, owner, and the K&D Group, prospective purchaser, appeal for change of use from a commercial building of approximately 21 stories to a use for 223 dwelling unit apartments on acreage located in an E5 General Retail Business District; contrary to the regulations under Sections 357.04 and 357.08(b)(2) a front yard depth of zero is proposed where 20 feet is required by the regulation for 15% lot depth and not to exceed 30 feet; and no rear yard is proposed, contrary to the requirement for 15% of the lot, or not less than 20 feet, or less than one-half the building height that equals 191 feet; and the maximum lot area coverage allowed is 24,750 and 362,607 square feet of gross floor area is proposed, contrary to the provisions under Section 355.04 in the Cleveland Codified Ordinances.

(Filed 1-2-13)

I know how everyone here loves hearsay :P  A friend of mine was moving into the Hanna building yesterday and was talking to some of the construction crew.  Word is they'll finish up the Hanna in mid October and then start work on the East Ohio tower.

I remember reading up thread before the server crash that all financing was to be wrapped up around september/October and title was to transfer around that time.

Interesting. These are the quirks that get encountered when trying to rehab a building built before anyone apparently thought of making elevators large enough for gurneys.......

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/bbs/agenda/2013/AGENDA08282013.pdf

 

Agenda

BOARD OF BUILDING STANDARDS AND BUILDING APPEALS

Room 514 – City Hall

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 28, 2013

BUILDING: PUBLIC HEARING: 9:30A.M.

 

Docket A-187-13 1717 East 9th Street WARD: 3

(Joe Cimperman)

The K&D Group, Owner of the Property appeals from an ADJUDICATION ORDER, dated

BUILDING: PUBLIC HEARING (CONT’D.): 9:30A.M.

DOCKET A-187-13 (CONT’D.):

June 24, 2013; appellant appeals the requirement set forth by the OBC, Section 3002.4—

which requires an elevator car to be provided to accommodate an ambulance stretcher.

The building is listed on the National Registry of Historic Places and is an existing structure.

The elevator shafts located within the building are existing; and for the project to provide a new

elevator sized appropriately for an ambulance stretcher, would be an impractical structural

burden for the development team to proceed with. To meet the current OBC requirements for

elevator size, the existing precast concrete beam located on every floor of the 21 story building

would be required to be removed in its entirety and a new steel beam re-located within the

shaft.

I've never heard this rule before.  It seems pretty ridiculous, how many older buildings would actually have an elevator that large?

Some, like Rosetta Center, have separate freight elevators.  Maybe that covered the requirement in some instances.

I would assume most office buildings had freight elevators - how did they get office furniture up to all those offices? EOG executives must have had tiny desks

 

Nah, they had junior employees and no OSHA, so they just carried everything for the bosses, or hoisted it through the window with a pulley or something. Remember, if there's no law saying otherwise, brute human labor can solve almost any problem.

 

 

From what I remember the one time I visited their customer service to pay a bill there, the employees would have a hard time operating an elevator.  Advanced math with all those pretty little buttons.

Happy to see this news today about K&D Closing on the East Ohio Bldg. -

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/09/kd_closes_purchase_of_east_ohi.html

^Sorry didn't see yours

 

Good work Michelle.

Also you indicate an opening as soon as July. Will it open in phases? And did they disclose any exterior changes. thnx.

 

K&D closes purchase of East Ohio Building, setting stage for 223-unit apartment redevelopment

 

By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

Email the author | Follow on Twitter

on September 11, 2013 at 3:55 PM, updated September 11, 2013 at 4:04

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- After nearly two years of negotiations and financial gymnastics, the shuttered East Ohio Building is poised for redevelopment as 223 apartments, the first of which will open by July.

The K&D Group of Willoughby bought the downtown office tower and the adjoining parking garage Wednesday, setting the table for a $65 million residential project. A major high-rise conversion in the center city, the East Ohio plan reflects a dramatic shift in the downtown real estate market, where developers are eying large, obsolete office buildings as residential plays.

Doug Price, K&D's chief executive officer, would not comment on the purchase price for the 21-story building and its 550-car parking garage. Property records were not immediately available Wednesday afternoon.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/09/kd_closes_purchase_of_east_ohi.html#incart_river_default

I've never heard this rule before.  It seems pretty ridiculous, how many older buildings would actually have an elevator that large?

 

They were appealing having to install a new elevator. All new elevators have to be able to fit a stretcher in them. That seems like a pretty easy appeal win to me. Cost would be exponential to make it work. There is a chapter in the building code that deals with existing buildings and cost to upgrade, among other things.

Crains' contribution...

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20130911/FREE/130919945?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1#ATHS

 

Also you indicate an opening as soon as July. Will it open in phases? And did they disclose any exterior changes. thnx.

 

 

Hello -

 

Yes, they'll complete the building in stages. What K&D has been doing at other properties is finishing one floor at a time, or a group of floors, and opening them up for occupancy. Then they move to the next floor or set of floors. Doug Price said the first units at 1717 will open by July and the entire project will be complete by August 2015. So they will deliver the 223 apartments over the course of a year-plus.

 

The renderings that I've seen don't contemplate exterior changes to the building, and the historic tax credits will limit what K&D can do, aesthetically. Since the first floor tenants aren't lined up, it's not clear how they'll deal with signs. If you look at the building (especially the north side) and at old photographs of it, you'll see there used to be fairly understated East Ohio Gas lettering.

 

Michelle

^OK thanks for that. In the rendering below the exterior appears altered. Guess we will have to wait and see.

How so? I'm looking at that rendering and a current picture and they appear identical.

^Idk the windows or panels just look different. Maybe it's the rendering.

There's also this interior rendering I posted here a year ago. But since it's been a year, I guess it doesn't hurt posting it again....

 

mjarboe updated her article from yesterday with the purchase price K&D paid for the East Ohio building and its parking garage. The deed transfer shows a purchase price of $7.85 million.

 

Jersey barriers and dumpsters showing up on Walnut Ave

 

That's great to see they're jumping right into this. No lingering around as with some other buildings.....

Cleveland Construction Co. banners going up on constrction fences at 1717 East 9th -- progress!

 

There have been a lot of lights on in the evening as well.

Just noticed this nighttime render at http://residencesat1717.com/

If that's the lighting they'll have, I like it. Subtle and classy.

i really like the lighting, i think it looks good for the building

Nice lighting!  I hope they also add some exterior lights to the garage to the east.

That is an awesome lighting scheme.  I'm looking forward to this and the Ameritrust Tower adding light to the skyline.  If only the feds would light the cornice of the courthouse tower again...

I like that lighting. Hopefully it looks like that in person, making a rather ugly building look good!

Nice lighting!  I hope they also add some exterior lights to the garage to the east.

 

Yep, that's a long, dark, scary, featureless hallway, er, alley.