Just wanted to poll the audience here--

 

I am currently looking at new cars and the Prius C has sparked my attention. I test drove one yesterday on a whim and was pleasantly suprised. It's a nicely packaged, smaller, city hatchback that gets nearly 55mpg in the city and mid forties on the highway. But it's around $20k, which is quite affordable in the hybrid segment BUT rather expensive for a compact car. A similarly equipped Honda FIT, Hyundai, Kia, etc can be had for a few thousand less and usually with more features.

 

I do a mix of highway and city diriving. In Cincinnati I feel like a fair amount of highway driving is kind of inevitable if you want to go anywhere decently far. Cleveland is the same and I think Columbus is even worse with this. My understanding is that hybrids really deliver the best MPG in heavy stop-and-go city traffic.

 

So I ask, is the additional upfront cost of the vehicle enough worth the savings in fuel? or is it better to just buy the cheaper car and eat the cost of using more fuel?

 

Any other takeaways/opinions/thoughts/rants/raves from hybrid drivers?

With Sudan and South Sudan practically at war,  the Kurds beginning serious talks of secession, Iran hostilities growing worse, growth of China, utter failure of so many alternertive energy companies, etc, I would say oil prices could and should get far worse. Go for the hybrid.

 

^Eh, we've had conflicts for as long as we've been alive, and they only produce a minimal amount of long-term disruption to fuel prices.

 

Folks should decide on what they decide to drive based on economic costs in the short- and long-term, not theorized projections. People should use a payback period calculator to determine if the return-on-investment is worth it, because most hybrids are not worth the money you pay into it.

 

I follow Autoblog and Cars.com, and prefer their reviews and expert commentary: http://www.cars.com/guides/best-gas-mileage/

 

Note that you can actually get a better savings yield over a longer period if you buy a turbocharged diesel, such as a VW Jetta TDI, than most hybrids. Even some fuel-efficient vehicles can achieve 40 MPG without sacrificing tire quality, storage and components - like the new Ford Focus (skip the Ford Fiesta, which offers less room and comfort and gets about the same MPG). Some are gimmicks, like the Toyota Camry Hybrid, that offer little ROI for what you pay for.

 

Cars.com just did a review of the new Toyota Prius c: http://www.cars.com/toyota/prius-c/2012/expert-reviews/?revid=58230

 

Just for laughs (and to look at older data), here is Edmund's 2010 payback period list for hybrids. Basically, don't buy a Cadillac Escalade Hybrid. http://www.businessfleet.com/Channel/Green-Fleet/News/Story/2010/04/Edmunds-com-Evaluates-Payback-Period-of-Hybrid-and-Diesel-Vehicles.aspx?interstitial=1

I agree with Sherman regarding payback periods. If overall economy is your main criteria, I'd also suggest the diesel. Diesels aren't as annoying and they used to be, and you don't have to keep a Trucker's Atlas around anymore to find diesel. Hybrid interior space is compromised due to all that "innovation" lurking beneath the seats. And you don't need a team of engineers on retainer if something goes wrong.

 

But, right now diesel is 30 cents more per gallon than gasoline, Britain has a fuel shortage, the Saudis are probably overstating the size of their oil stash and the Japanese are moving away from nuclear power in favor of oil and gas. Nonetheless, both a diesel and a hybrid are going to use oil and hybrids in practice don't seem to average very close to their rated MPG unless you hypermile. And hypermiling is practically impossible in Cincinnati.

Definitely interested in VW Diesel -- not sure why they are the only ones that have brought diesel passenger cars to the US...they sell like crazy here and the clean diesel technology is widespread in Europe. The downside are expensive oil changes, questionable VW quality, and an overall higher price of entry vs. Toyota's hybrids.

 

I'm not someone who keeps cars for more than a few years -- in fact, I plan on leasing. I don't see driving enough to realize any cost savings in the 3 years I'd have the car, but I'm intrigued by the prospect nontheless. And I suspect that heading into an election season here we'll see stable, lower fuel prices.

 

I suspect lots of people that buy hybrids are the greenwashed, Whole Foods shopping, Lululemon yoga-doing yuppies who are concerned about image more than fuel savings.

Agreed. VW's reliability has improved, but it's still not in a top tier. And if you like Audi, which has some sweet TDI's, then expect VW reliability since they are the same manufacturer. Outside of that, there is limited diesel availability, and is mostly confined to Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and trucks.

 

Leasing for shorter periods can be more cost effective than owning.

 

Here is the absurd part. My parents are shopping for a new SUV/crossover for long trips, which they take frequently - especially since they are nearing retirement age. They have a 2003 Nissan Pathfinder with 80,000 miles - which is stellar, and the vehicle is in perfect condition. They looked at the Cadilliac SRX crossover, Toyota Highlander/4Runner, Honda CR-V/Pilot, Ford Edge/Escape (2013), Mazda CX-5, etc. and are wanting better mileage. But their Pathfinder gets 19 MPG highway - and while it isn't great, most of the others they have looked at have not been that much better - especially if you are going to spend $30,000 to $40,000+ for a vehicle. There is little ROI for that. The new Ford Escape just got rated for 23/33 MPG, the highest in its class for auto (the Mazda CX-5 gets 35 MPG in manual), which is better but it's still car payments they would need to make every month to save a few hundred dollars a year.

Another agreeing with Sherman Cahal, that for most, the hybrids are just not worth the money. I think you have to keep them for at LEAST 10 years to realize a savings or something.

Mostly. The Toyota Prius has a payback period of 2.5 years as of 2010. The Prius C is cheaper and gets better MPG, but is also smaller, and should have a better ROI. There was a Chevy Silverado Hybrid for a while that had a payback period of 70+ years!

Just get a Dune Buggy. :-P

 

$7,629

70+MPH

61 MPG

 

^ That will come in handy when things go Mad Max.

@Sherman, so with the Prius' gas savings, you make up the extra cost in only 2.5 years (and the Prius C even sooner)? That really isn't too bad.

 

My girlfriend and I will be in the market for a new car in a couple months, and she has her heart set on a hybrid (she works at the Zoo, so the conservation thing is big). We plan on looking at the Prius, Prius c, Honda Insight, but she won't look at Ford (GM superiority mentality). Any other hybrids we should look at? We want to stay in the 18-26k price range.

Per the dune buggy suggestion

The ApocalypsEV

http://neuralwiki.org/apocalypsev/

$5-8K

These guys also market a cordless chainsaw but there doesn't seem to be an attachment for the vehicle.

 

@Sherman, so with the Prius' gas savings, you make up the extra cost in only 2.5 years (and the Prius C even sooner)? That really isn't too bad.

 

My girlfriend and I will be in the market for a new car in a couple months, and she has her heart set on a hybrid (she works at the Zoo, so the conservation thing is big). We plan on looking at the Prius, Prius c, Honda Insight, but she won't look at Ford (GM superiority mentality). Any other hybrids we should look at? We want to stay in the 18-26k price range.

 

You guys might consider looking at the Hyundai Elantra as well which gets near-hybrid fuel economy without actually being a hybrid.

 

Prius c is by FAR the best value in hybrid though...nicely equipped for 20K and while it's small, it is very versatile. This should be on the top of your list for sure.

I'd buy Chevy Volt in a heartbeat if I was in the market for a new car.  I think they look great, interiors are awesome, and made in the USA!!!  Prius and Leafs look like eggs.  The Volt looks like a real car I'd be interested in buying that also happens to be a hybrid.  Totally fits my lifestyle of lots of short trips too, but my gas guzzler V8 is almost paid for and I got 0% financing.

@Sherman, so with the Prius' gas savings, you make up the extra cost in only 2.5 years (and the Prius C even sooner)? That really isn't too bad.

 

My girlfriend and I will be in the market for a new car in a couple months, and she has her heart set on a hybrid (she works at the Zoo, so the conservation thing is big). We plan on looking at the Prius, Prius c, Honda Insight, but she won't look at Ford (GM superiority mentality). Any other hybrids we should look at? We want to stay in the 18-26k price range.

 

You guys might consider looking at the Hyundai Elantra as well which gets near-hybrid fuel economy without actually being a hybrid.

 

Prius c is by FAR the best value in hybrid though...nicely equipped for 20K and while it's small, it is very versatile. This should be on the top of your list for sure.

 

oh it definitely is! I priced out a Prius c3 with the alloy wheel and moonroof package and the price is good. Size is a slight concern, but we don't do too mcuh driving and will just rent a truck/SUV should we need to haul cargo. It all rests on our test drive, though...

Drove the new Ford Focus today...holy crap! What a fabulous automobile. The drive and interior felt much closer to Audi than one would expect from an American compact car....which makes sense because I read that Ford bench marked it against the A3. And again, this is one of those cars than can get close to 40MPG on the highway making the hybrid look less and less attractive (Toyota's interiors are last-gen and not particularly well appointed imo)

If you are really concerned about mileage:

 

1. Keep the tires properly inflated and the change the oil on time.

2. Get the smallest car you can live with.

3. Avoid driving whenever possible.

4. Don't carry around extra weight.

5. Avoid using the A/C as much as possible. (or get a car without A/C! Do they make them anymore?) Park in the shade, face away from the sun, put shades on the windows, etc.

 

If you are concerned about total life cycle cost:

1. Buy used!

 

5. Not so true, anymore.  And especially not true if you're driving highway speeds, or probably anything over about 35.  It's more fuel efficient to drive the A/C than to pull against the extra drag of open windows.  Old cars used to have very inefficient compressors, so it used to be a more serious mileage compromise.

 

My parents have had a Prius for a few years now, and love it.  I've driven it down to Florida a few times.  It drives great, and does get pretty much the stated mileage during normal driving.  They don't do yoga, or otherwise act like caricatures of liberals.