Noozer & Gildone: I'm surprised you're continuing with this experiment to see if an impermeable stone can absorb a new substance. I hope you realize by now that it cannot. Time to end the experiment, and leave the stone alone where it lies.

 

Very correct KJP.  It's past being worth the time and energy...   

Noozer & Gildone: I'm surprised you're continuing with this experiment to see if an impermeable stone can absorb a new substance. I hope you realize by now that it cannot. Time to end the experiment, and leave the stone alone where it lies.

 

Very correct KJP.  It's past being worth the time and energy...   

 

Then please Gildone, don't start something you aren't willing to finish. And don't assume that all people arguing one "side" have completely similar views. I'm in full support of Ohio Hub, I've said it in two different posts on here. I'm not against passenger rail at all...and I think it could be profitable done the right way. :)

From the Youngstown Business-Journal: Link

 

Allegiant Announces Myrtle Beach Flights

Feb. 25, 2010 6:42 a.m.

By George Nelson

VIENNA TOWNSHIP, Ohio -- Only moments after announcing that Allegiant Air would begin offering service to Myrtle Beach, S.C from Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport., sales director John Fenyes suggested service to a third destination might not be far down the runway.

 

The new service is scheduled to begin April 22 from the local airport with a 2:05 p.m. departure, Fenyes announced Wednesday during a news conference at the airport. The service to Myrtle Beach, “the golf capital of the East Coast,” as Fenyes put it, joins Allegiant’s service to the Orlando, Fla. area, which it has offered from Youngstown-Warren since May 2006.

 

Allegiant will offer service to Myrtle Beach twice weekly, Thursday and Sunday. Flights from Youngstown-Warren will arrive in Myrtle Beach at 3:45 p.m., and flights leaving Myrtle Beach will depart at 2:45 p.m. and arrive at Youngstown-Warren at 4:25 p.m. Allegiant will use 150-seat MD-80 jets for the flights.

 

They also announced yesterday if these flights do well, a 3rd destination may be added very soon.

Allegiant Takes Off to Orlando International

March 5, 2010 6:33 a.m.

 

VIENNA, Ohio -- Nonstop service to Orlando International Airport by Allegiant Air took off yesterday from the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport.

 

The carrier previously offered nonstop service to Orlando via the Orlando Sanford International Airport.

 

The flights operate two times weekly with service Sunday and Thursday. Flights depart Youngstown at 7:30 p.m., arriving in Orlando at 9:50 p.m. Flights depart Orlando at 4:25 p.m., arriving in Youngstown at 6:45 p.m.

 

Allegiant Air will begin serviceApril 22 to Myrtle Beach, S.C.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://business-journal.com/clients/business-journal/allegiant-takes-off-to-orlando-international-p15884.htm?twindow=Default&smenu=1&mad=No

I remember when this sort of service was regular there. Great addition.

The airport is doing very well with Allegiant, which is the most profitable airline in America right now. They may add a 3rd destination from YNG very soon.

 

For those in Cleveland, Akron, and Canton, I strongly urge you to use this route, considering the fares are very low and CLE and CAK do NOT have nonstop service to MYR.

A grassroots group in the Mahoning Valley has launched a non-profit group called the YNGAir Partners to help the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport acquire nonstop daily service on a legacy carrier, ala United Express to Chicago O'Hare or Washington Dulles. Here is our website and if you have any questions, please post them in this thread or pm me: http://yngairpartners.org/

 

This is exactly what Youngstown needs: It's own citizens standing up and giving it their all to improve this community!

YNG Facebook Page:

Our April 2011 passenger numbers are in: A total of 6,168 passengers flew through YNG during the month, a 53% increase over 2010! Thank you for flying out of the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport!

 

Great news!!

YNG Facebook: Our June 2011 passenger numbers are in: A total of 8,378 passengers flew through YNG during the month, a 55.6% increase over 2010! The month of June was the best month at the airport since October of 1998! Thank you so much for your support of the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport!

 

Note the last paragraph.....

 

Shale takes center stage

Job boom expected beyond drilling

December 1, 2011

By LARRY RINGLER - Business Editor ([email protected]) , Tribune Chronicle | TribToday.com

 

YOUNGSTOWN - Job creation for shale drilling projects is expected to extend beyond the drill site to storage areas for sand and pipe, air travel for workers flying to and from job sites, and training classes for job candidates.

 

The Ohio Commerce Park booth at the Youngstown Ohio Utica & Natural Gas Conference at the Covelli Centre attracted inquiries about space to offload and load piles of sand and steel tubes to be used in drilling and hydraulic fracturing of shale rock to release natural gas and oil.

 

"We have areas near the railroad that can handle transloading. We still have a lot of acres for buildings," said Gris Hurlbert, broker for Routh-Hurlbert commercial real estate brokers.

 

Officials with the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport and the Western Reserve Port Authority that runs the airport fielded questions about cargo storage and travel at the Vienna airport.

 

Aviation Director Dan Dickten said the airport is looking into flights with Cleveland, from where shale workers and business people could catch flights to energy centers in Houston, Dallas and Denver.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/564794/Shale-takes-center-stage.html?nav=5021

YNGAir Partners, a non-profit organization that is assisting the airport in acquiring additional airline/cargo service, is conducting a survey on their website on a potential name change for the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport. The survey runs through December 23rd and they want people from all across the state to take part in this survey. It is worth noting they get passengers from as far away as Columbus and just south of Buffalo, NY.

 

Please vote in the survey, esp if you live within 2 hours of this airport, by clicking here:

YtownNewsandViews,

 

Any updates on Allegiant's YNG service? My understanding is that it's a pretty successful market for them. I ask because they have been announcing lots of new service lately and I'm really hoping to see YNG get in on this action. LEX, my closest G9 airport, just got service to LAS...a market I think could do quite well from YNG.

I hope they stay away from NEO and Western Reserve.  It's a bit too much marketing over reality for me.  If it were more centrally located or those region designations didn't have two substantially larger metro areas within them it would make more sense.  I think Mahoning Valley is a downgrade as well.  It's not so big of a watershed that you're really capturing people that don't already feel connected to the Warren and Youngstown city names.  Perhaps it's just my bias of being someone who is attracted to a site like Urban Ohio but having the valley name just gives a feeling more of Petite Coat Junction of airports.

Hey guys. Allegiant is doing quite well at YNG. Their load factors were 93.3% in November, which is third best in their entire system. We are hopeful they will add an additional destination sometime in 2012 and add a 3rd weekly flight to Orlando-Sanford. We are also looking into some daily connecting airline service to serve the oil and gas industry.

 

In regards to the name change, people support a name change overwhelmingly. The issue is they can't quite agree on one name right now. There is one name on that list that is about 5% ahead of the other 7. You guys can guess which one it is :).

Note this article:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/12/pittsburgh_airport_says_region.html

 

(Continental also added service -- to Green Bay, Wis. And one of its regional partners is expected to start flying to Youngstown within the next few months.)

Sorry, but 70-mile flights are just plain wrong. The fact that we even have these is indicative of how screwed up and unbalanced America's transportation system is.

 

BTW, with airlines consolidating their flights (especially international ones) at fewer hubs, a few of us on another discussion forum dreamed up an idea. The discussion was motivated by this article.... http://www.npr.org/2011/12/09/143306035/when-airlines-depart-cities-businesses-may-follow

 

We would replace Cleveland Hopkins, Akron-Cantion Regional, and Pittsburgh International with a super-regional airport at Youngstown-Vienna offering a greater critical mass of flights to more American destinations, plus many European cities and perhaps even Oriental destinations. Then we would link this super-airport by high-speed rail to suburban and downtown stations in Cleveland and Pittsburgh offering flight check-in and baggage claim.

Sorry, but 70-mile flights are just plain wrong. The fact that we even have these is indicative of how screwed up and unbalanced America's transportation system is.

 

BTW, with airlines consolidating their flights (especially international ones) at fewer hubs, a few of us on another discussion forum dreamed up an idea. The discussion was motivated by this article.... http://www.npr.org/2011/12/09/143306035/when-airlines-depart-cities-businesses-may-follow

 

We would replace Cleveland Hopkins, Akron-Cantion Regional, and Pittsburgh International with a super-regional airport at Youngstown-Vienna offering a greater critical mass of flights to more American destinations, plus many European cities and perhaps even Oriental destinations. Then we would link this super-airport by high-speed rail to suburban and downtown stations in Cleveland and Pittsburgh offering flight check-in and baggage claim.

 

That will never happen, I can assure you of that. In regards to that 70-mile flight, a major benefactor of these daily flights would actually be the oil and gas companies. They have to fly workers in and out of the area back down South every single week. Instead of having to bus them to the other airports an hour away, they can hop on this short flights and connect in Cleveland to where they have to go.

 

I agree, a YNG-CLE does not wow me, but the airport has done surveys with Allegiant passengers, as well as some oil and gas companies, and they are showing support for this route to the tune of well over 80%.

 

YNG ran these flights in the mid 90s and they had 70%+ load factors. If they get the same load factors this time around, they will definitely succeed. They aren't for everyone, but 2 daily flights on a 19 seater can be filled.

That will never happen, I can assure you of that.

 

Sorry, but the only people I listen to when they predict the future are those who have already been there.

That will never happen, I can assure you of that.

 

Sorry, but the only people I listen to when they predict the future are those who have already been there.

How can you sit here and honestly think the Mahoning Valley, the smallest of the three major Metro areas of Northeastern Ohio, would get an international airport/transportation hub over Cleveland or Akron?!

Did you read the NPR article? Where would you consolidate four small-medium airports spread among a megapolitan region? Probably in the geographic middle, wouldn't ya think?

Did you read the NPR article? Where would you consolidate four small-medium airports spread among a megapolitan region? Probably in the geographic middle, wouldn't ya think?

I'd love to see it happen, but I don't see it ever happening.

I think regions where there are a cluster of under-performing airports will be forced to combine them to achieve the kind of air travel options they want. Traveling a half-hour by high-speed rail to an airport to catch a flight to the West Coast, the Caribbean, Europe or the Far East is not an unusual experience throughout the world. I doubt any of our region's airports will again enjoy these flight options if they continue to operate separately.

Daily flights from Youngstown to Cleveland taxi toward 2012 reality

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/dec/22/daily-flights-to-cleveland-taxi-toward--/

 

Negotiations are finally moving in the direction of restoring daily air service to the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport, the airport’s director reported Wednesday.

 

The Western Reserve Port Authority, which runs the airport, authorized Dan Dickten, director of aviation, to continue negotiations with Gulfstream International of Fort Lauderdale.

 

The airline could start up flights between the local airport and Cleveland Hopkins International Airport as early as the first three months of 2012, Dickten said.

 

He said he hopes to have a contract for the board to discuss at the port authority’s meeting in January.

 

Dickten said he expects fares would be “reasonable” in price but didn’t know exact amounts. From Cleveland, travelers could connect with 60 destinations across the United States and Canada.

 

Airport officials have tried for years to restore daily service to the airport. When Dickten was hired in March 2010, he made it a priority to provide a service that would bring business travelers back to the local airport. The last time the airport offered daily service was 2003.

A 70-mile flight -- really?

 

...The Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport would provide Gulfstream with a revenue guarantee to start up the service. Two-thirds of the guarantee would come from a $575,000 U.S. Department of Transportation Small Community Air Service Development Program grant the airport received in October 2007.

^Where are the Tea Party complaints about wasteful spending here? 

A 70-mile flight -- really?

 

...The Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport would provide Gulfstream with a revenue guarantee to start up the service. Two-thirds of the guarantee would come from a $575,000 U.S. Department of Transportation Small Community Air Service Development Program grant the airport received in October 2007.

People flew it in 1995 when COA offered this service:

March 279 Late Start

April 733 74%

May 715 72 %

June 730 74 %

July 737 75 %

Aug 778 79 %

 

Each month that route was profitable, but due to some embarrassing lack of internal controls at YNG when it comes to COA, the route was nixed.

a major benefactor of these daily flights would actually be the oil and gas companies.

 

Contract with Anderson Motorcoach or another company.  It would be far cheaper and absolutely no less convenient.  Besides why does the oil and gas industry need yet another subsidy?  They gorge at the public trough too much already. 

 

People flew it in 1995 when COA offered this service...Each month that route was profitable, but due to some embarrassing lack of internal controls at YNG when it comes to COA, the route was nixed.

 

I doubt that would be the case with today's fuel prices,  but I concede that profitability is not the issue with common-carrier transportation. 

 

I'm interested in knowing how many flights per day and the expected average number of people per flight for this proposal.  Anyone know?

 

No matter how you slice it, this is not the way to serve this travel market in a way that is the highest and best use of PUBLIC dollars. 

 

 

 

a major benefactor of these daily flights would actually be the oil and gas companies.

 

Contract with Anderson Motorcoach or another company.  It would be far cheaper and absolutely no less convenient.  Besides why does the oil and gas industry need yet another subsidy?  They gorge at the public trough too much already. 

 

People flew it in 1995 when COA offered this service...Each month that route was profitable, but due to some embarrassing lack of internal controls at YNG when it comes to COA, the route was nixed.

 

I doubt that would be the case with today's fuel prices,  but I concede that profitability is not the issue with common-carrier transportation. 

 

I'm interested in knowing how many flights per day and the expected average number of people per flight for this proposal.  Anyone know?

 

No matter how you slice it, this is not the way to serve this travel market in a way that is the highest and best use of PUBLIC dollars. 

I disagree and I am a conservative. If you want to look at WASTEFUL public dollars used for aviation, look no further than the Essential Air Service grant which gouges the taxpayers. Cities the size of most suburbs are getting EAS funding for 20% loads to major hubs across the United States.

 

This proposal would be for 2x Monday through Friday and 1x on Saturday and Sunday. The airline would ONLY dip into the fund if the plane does have enough seats sold on it to make a profit. Initially they are bound to dip in, but if the service becomes popular, the airline will not use it and the remaining portion will remain in the hands of the DOT.

 

Many said it was a waste of our tax dollars to give Allegiant a $250,000 SCASD grant back in 2006. Well five years later YNG is the third best airport for Allegiant in terms of passenger loads with 93% of the 150 seat jets sold.

 

Leisure does not equate to business travel, I understand that, but this is a small step in the right direction for YNG.

I agree with you..., this may have some legs.

 

First of all, in the biz world, nobody wants to fly three hours from IAH to CLE and then collect bags, go to the rental car area and drive somewhere else (75-100 miles in this case).  IAH-CLE-YNG is one ticket, bags checked thru with a 25-35 minute connection time in CLE.  And all the pax has to do is sit back, relax and enjoy the flight.  If the shale gas industry really does take-off and the YNG area is center stage then this segment will do fine.  The industry is full of these tag end segments:  CVG-SDF, CVG-DAY, CLT-GSP, CLT-GSO, ATL-TYS, IAH-to numerous TX cities, etc.  The point being is that you are not (in most cases) selling a 70 mile flight but a continuation of a much longer one.  As for CLE:  This is what a hub airport is supposed to do!  If the load factors mentioned above are corrrect and you throw a couple of full fare biz travelers in the mix per day then you got a money making proposition.  Airlines lose money not on the flying, but on the fixed costs associated with the flying.  Leases, personnel, ground equipment, etc.  One way around the personnel issue is to send people from the hub station to the out station to man it during ops hours and then being them back in the evening rather than hiring additional people to man the out stattion.  Beleive it or not, this is actually done.

An upscale bus service like Anderson Motorcoach would be just as comfortable and convenient for business travelers and cost much less.  Interesting that MD88PILOT and YtownNewsandViews both ignored this point.  The drive or fly or nothing argument MD88PILOT makes is all too typical of the myopia so prevalent in American thinking about transportation. 

 

BTW, YtownNewsandViews I agree with you about some of the EAS stuff. 

 

An upscale bus service like Anderson Motorcoach would be just as comfortable and convenient for business travelers and cost much less.  Interesting that MD88PILOT and YtownNewsandViews both ignored this point.  The drive or fly or nothing argument MD88PILOT makes is all too typical of the myopia so prevalent in American thinking about transportation. 

 

BTW, YtownNewsandViews I agree with you about some of the EAS stuff. 

 

 

Myopic am I???  I'll have you know i have 20/20 vision uncorrected..... The bus schtick has been tried.  Anybody recall CLE-CAK on CAL via bus???  How about EWR-ABE on CAL via bus??  I didn't ignore the "upscale" motorcoach...It's just that there's no such thing....

An upscale bus service like Anderson Motorcoach would be just as comfortable and convenient for business travelers and cost much less.  Interesting that MD88PILOT and YtownNewsandViews both ignored this point.  The drive or fly or nothing argument MD88PILOT makes is all too typical of the myopia so prevalent in American thinking about transportation. 

 

BTW, YtownNewsandViews I agree with you about some of the EAS stuff. 

 

In the 1990s, Continental launched bus service to CLE from YNG. When they launched that, they said the would expand to aircraft service if successful. Well within a year it expanded into Beech 1900 service, which is what is being proposed right now.

 

Great post MD88PILOT!

Did a little more research into CLE-YNG history and some similar service at other cities.  One reason that CAL dropped YNG in the late '90's was because CAL was going all "pure" jet and shedding t-props.  The economics couldn't justify an ERJ on the route.  I beleive that ERI was also dropped about that same time.  As time passed, the CAL subsidiary "Expressjet" was sold-off and the B-1900D's were sold off to the likes of Gulfstream and other independents.

 

As time passed, some of these independent carriers relaized the value of the economics of t-props and started to re-acquire them.  Hence you see the Dash8's and Q-400's at CLE and other hubs.

 

The use of the t-props made service to cities such as ERI profitable again.  ERI is not much further from CLE than YNG and ERI supports 4x daily Dash8 service.  Plus the ERI metro and YNG metro are similar.  And today, you no longer have the USAirways hub at PIT.  DAL operates 8x daily between ATL and Chattanooga, TN.  Chattanooga and Youngstown have similar metro sizes and Chattanooga is only 100 miles from ATL.  Similary, I remember flying ATL-RDU-GSO-ATL in my 727 days.  RDU-GSO is only about 60 miles.  I also remember flying SRQ-TPA - 40 miles - done at under 10,000 ft and under 250kts.

 

Now to the ancient era.......

 

UAL operated CLE-YNG.  It also operated CLE-YNG-CAK-CLE milk run and of course the YNG-ORD.  in addition, at one point CLE-CAK was served by no less than THREE airlines:  AA, UA and EA.  The fare on EA (in 1972) was $17.00 each way.  The AA service was gone by late '60's and EA was gone by late 70's.  I beleive that UA kept the route until early 80's.

 

 

Myopic am I???  I'll have you know i have 20/20 vision uncorrected..... The bus schtick has been tried.  Anybody recall CLE-CAK on CAL via bus???  How about EWR-ABE on CAL via bus??  I didn't ignore the "upscale" motorcoach...It's just that there's no such thing....

 

There is a such thing as an upscale motorcoach, that's why I mentioned Anderson.  In fact, it's something Anderson tried to do on its own between CLE and Pittsburgh several years ago, but it wasn't a contract, through-ticketing operation with an airline, which is what I'm suggesting.  They attempted it on their own.  Their marketing data showed there was demand for the service they were offering.  I used to see people on that bus on I480 in the morning.  But they apparently didn't research their pricing structure enough.  It was $127 one-way,  so it was too expensive and that's why didn't last.  Just goes to show that people value low fares first and foremost, whether its planes, trains, or buses. 

 

I don't know about the formerly attempted bus segments you mention, but would need to know enough of the details to determine if they are apples to apples comparisons. 

 

You seem upset.  None of this is worth raising of blood pressure.  I'm ok agreeing to disagree.  But you have not laid out a convincing enough case, in my opinion, that a contract, upscale motorcoach wouldn't work in this instance.  Instead I'm seeing a knee-jerk reaction.  Instead of getting angry, state your case-- clearly and with enough detail to truly educate people here. 

 

Ytown said that a bus has worked in the past and was able build ridership enough to eventually justify a plane, which puts a good sized dent in your argument already.  Ytown:  would you clarify what you mean by:  "which is what is being proposed right now"? 

 

If this has worked once already in the same market, why wouldn't it work again? 

Myopic am I???  I'll have you know i have 20/20 vision uncorrected..... The bus schtick has been tried.  Anybody recall CLE-CAK on CAL via bus???  How about EWR-ABE on CAL via bus??  I didn't ignore the "upscale" motorcoach...It's just that there's no such thing....

 

There is a such thing as an upscale motorcoach, that's why I mentioned Anderson.  In fact, it's something Anderson tried to do on its own between CLE and Pittsburgh several years ago, but it wasn't a contract, through-ticketing operation with an airline, which is what I'm suggesting.  They attempted it on their own.  Their marketing data showed there was demand for the service they were offering.  I used to see people on that bus on I480 in the morning.  But they apparently didn't research their pricing structure enough.  It was $127 one-way,  so it was too expensive and that's why didn't last.  Just goes to show that people value low fares first and foremost, whether its planes, trains, or buses. 

 

I don't know about the formerly attempted bus segments you mention, but would need to know enough of the details to determine if they are apples to apples comparisons. 

 

You seem upset.  None of this is worth raising of blood pressure.  I'm ok agreeing to disagree.  But you have not laid out a convincing enough case, in my opinion, that a contract, upscale motorcoach wouldn't work in this instance.  Instead I'm seeing a knee-jerk reaction.  Instead of getting angry, state your case-- clearly and with enough detail to truly educate people here. 

 

Ytown said that a bus has worked in the past and was able build ridership enough to eventually justify a plane, which puts a good sized dent in your argument already.  Ytown:  would you clarify what you mean by:  "which is what is being proposed right now"? 

 

If this has worked once already in the same market, why wouldn't it work again? 

Did a little more research into CLE-YNG history and some similar service at other cities.  One reason that CAL dropped YNG in the late '90's was because CAL was going all "pure" jet and shedding t-props.  The economics couldn't justify an ERJ on the route.  I beleive that ERI was also dropped about that same time.  As time passed, the CAL subsidiary "Expressjet" was sold-off and the B-1900D's were sold off to the likes of Gulfstream and other independents.

 

As time passed, some of these independent carriers relaized the value of the economics of t-props and started to re-acquire them.  Hence you see the Dash8's and Q-400's at CLE and other hubs.

 

The use of the t-props made service to cities such as ERI profitable again.  ERI is not much further from CLE than YNG and ERI supports 4x daily Dash8 service.  Plus the ERI metro and YNG metro are similar.  And today, you no longer have the USAirways hub at PIT.  DAL operates 8x daily between ATL and Charleston, SC.  Charleston and Youngstown have similar metro sizes and Charleston is only 100 miles from ATL.  Similary, I remember flying ATL-RDU-GSO-ATL in my 727 days.  RDU-GSO is only about 60 miles.  I also remember flying SRQ-TPA - 40 miles - done at under 10,000 ft and under 250kts.

 

Now to the ancient era.......

 

UAL operated CLE-YNG.  It also operated CLE-YNG-CAK-CLE milk run and of course the YNG-ORD.  in addition, at one point CLE-CAK was served by no less than THREE airlines:  AA, UA and EA.  The fare on EA (in 1972) was $17.00 each way.  The AA service was gone by late '60's and EA was gone by late 70's.  I beleive that UA kept the route until early 80's.

 

 

 

Upset??  I meant that first sentence to be humerous...even though i do have 20/20.  But hey if all the market will support is a bus, then go go for it.  However as he points out, the bus quickly gave way to air service.  Also, bus service probably means two trips through security.  At YNG and at CLE.  More added time.  Airlines don't operate or code-share with bus line subsidiaries (and I'm not sure they are allowed to do so anyway) so I don't know how seamless air/bus connections would be.  Now, I will grant you that some cities/metro's would do well to bus/rail pax to a larger airport.  TOL comes to mind.  It's not that far to DTW as DTW is located on the southside of Detroit anyway.  YNG however is not that conveniently close to CLE or PIT.  If YNG can support the service then go for it.  Airlines don't open stations on a whim with or without subsidies.  Even a small station like YNG would require a few local personnel.  Then there's leases, etc and allocation of equipment and aircraft.  As has been pointed out somewhere in this thread, CAL dropped YNG not necessarily because YNG was losing money but because of aircraft used.  Once Expressjet got rid of the t-props, YNG bcouldn't msupport ERJ service.  Expressjet is now an independent airline and UAL contracts out to many feeder airlines.  One being Gulfstream.  Gulfstream has the type of aircraft that may work for YNG and UAL, realizing this, may add YNG back utilizing Gulfstream and taking advantage of the start-up money to do so.  And last but not least, it shows the viability of CLE as a hub.  These are the kind of flights for which a hub is used.  And the fact that UAL is adding the YNG segment to CLE and not IAD or ORD is significant.  With or without UAL's agreement with the City, they wouldn't be adding flights and opening new stations to a hub they were panning to close.

Made this post on another site:

 

I am surprised no-one has brought up FNT-DTW. I think the only significant difference is the fact that DTW has more connections than CLE, but there are some similarities. No need to kill me if you guys disagree, but Flint and YNG are similar metro areas in the rust belt. One airport has done well in recent decades (FNT), while the other one is rebuilding itself (YNG).

 

Route Distance: FNT-DTW: 73 miles (55.3 miles crow distance) | YNG-CLE: 70.3 miles (61.8 miles crow distance).

MSA Population: FNT Metro: 425,790 | YNG Metro: 565,773.

Household Income: Genesee County: $41,382 | Mahoning County: $39,111.

Commercial Airports within 75 miles: FNT: LAN-53 miles, MBS-54 miles, DTW-73 miles | YNG: CAK-68 miles, CLE- 70 miles, PIT-73 miles.

 

FNT-DTW operates 2x on a 50 seat CRJ's, according to Delta's website. Per the Bureau of Transportation Statistics website TransStats, through September 2011 FNT has operated 88.3% passenger loads on this route (44,562 pax / 50,451 seats = 88.3%).

 

Similarly to YNG, FNT prides itself as a "stress-free" facility. YNG is definitely smaller and unless these flights are at the same time as Allegiant, security will be less than a minute. There is naturally differences between the two markets, but there is some definite similarities. If FNT can get 88.3% sold per day on a 73 mile trek south, I can't see why YNG can't get 70-75% of a total of 39 seats per day sold on a 70 mile trek west.

 

Just my two cents...

It would be interesting to see what percentage of people living in the Youngstown MSA drove to CLE for a flight versus PIT for a flight. PIT tends to have cheaper fares than CLE. So even if it leans slightly PIT or not, UAL would rather grab some of those passengers going to PIT and bring them through a higher fare CLE with the amenity of leaving/arriving close to home/work. The easiest way to do this, is of course, by offering YNG-CLE service.

 

 

My family frequently flies out of either Pitt or Cle depending on ticket prices. They live in Warren. They think having passenger air travel out of YNG would be nice, but seem more interested in having a rail connection to CLE or PITT both to visit the city AND fly.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of people living in the Youngstown MSA drove to CLE for a flight versus PIT for a flight. PIT tends to have cheaper fares than CLE. So even if it leans slightly PIT or not, UAL would rather grab some of those passengers going to PIT and bring them through a higher fare CLE with the amenity of leaving/arriving close to home/work. The easiest way to do this, is of course, by offering YNG-CLE service.

 

Really? I always thought CLE had cheaper fares. What discount airline flies out of PIT?

 

My family frequently flies out of either Pitt or Cle depending on ticket prices. They live in Warren. They think having passenger air travel out of YNG would be nice, but seem more interested in having a rail connection to CLE or PITT both to visit the city AND fly.

 

You have a VERY smart family! ;-)

It would be interesting to see what percentage of people living in the Youngstown MSA drove to CLE for a flight versus PIT for a flight. PIT tends to have cheaper fares than CLE. So even if it leans slightly PIT or not, UAL would rather grab some of those passengers going to PIT and bring them through a higher fare CLE with the amenity of leaving/arriving close to home/work. The easiest way to do this, is of course, by offering YNG-CLE service.

 

 

I believe the numbers were 51% fly out of PIT, 40% out of CLE,  and 6% CAK. Those may be off a bit, but PIT is definitely ahead in terms of pax traffic from the MV since it is closer as it is on the NW side of Pittsburgh.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of people living in the Youngstown MSA drove to CLE for a flight versus PIT for a flight. PIT tends to have cheaper fares than CLE. So even if it leans slightly PIT or not, UAL would rather grab some of those passengers going to PIT and bring them through a higher fare CLE with the amenity of leaving/arriving close to home/work. The easiest way to do this, is of course, by offering YNG-CLE service.

 

Really? I always thought CLE had cheaper fares. What discount airline flies out of PIT?

 

 

It's a mix of de-hubbing and some low cost carriers that have brought fares down at PIT (Jet Blue, Southwest, Airtran)

 

Check out this article here:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/which-airports-have-the-most-unfair-fares/#charts

 

The full chart is here:

http://www.538host.com/airlong.png

 

Note that CLE is "overpriced" by 55 dollars, while PIT is "discounted" 13 dollars.

63% Support Name Change for Airport

Northeast Ohio Regional Airport came out on top

 

VIENNA, OH - A total of 625 individuals from Northeast Ohio, Western Pennsylvania, Florida,

and other portions of the United States participated in the YNGAir Partners Airport Name

Change Survey which started on November 20th and ended on December 23rd. Of those

surveyed, 63% of those participating in the survey voted in-favor of the re-naming efforts.

 

Link: http://www.yngairpartners.org/files/NameChangeSurveyPressRelease.pdf

 

Warren Tribune-Chronicle:

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.d ... l?nav=5003

 

YNG eyeing daily service to Washington Dulles with United. Article should say daily M-F and then once on Saturday and Sunday. The proposed CLE service is no more.

Allegiant Air announced nonstop service to Punta Gorda in Southwest Florida beginning October 30th. Fares start at $85 one way.

Youngstown air base to lose planes, jobs

Published: Thu, November 21, 2013 @ 12:01 a.m.

By WILLIAM K. ALCORN

[email protected]

 

VIENNA

 

The Youngstown Air Reserve Station’s 910th Airlift Wing is scheduled to lose four C-130 cargo planes and some 50 full-time and 150 part-time jobs in Fiscal Year 2014.

 

The 910th said Wednesday that two of its C-130 Hercules cargo transport aircraft, previously on loan to the C-130 training facility at Little Rock, Ark., were permanently transferred effective Oct. 1, which began Fiscal Year 2014.

 

Further, two more of the 910th’s C-130s are scheduled to be reassigned by March 31, 2014, bringing its complement of aircraft to eight.

 

As a result, the 910th will also lose about 50 full-time and 150 part-time positions associated with the reduction of the permanent aircraft inventory. The position reductions will take place throughout the fiscal year that ends Sept. 30, 2014, the 910th reported.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/nov/21/youngstown-air-base-lose-planes-jobs/

Do we really expect airlines to reverse course and start adding flights at small airports like YGN?

 

Consultant: Cleveland airport’s loss is Youngstown’s gain

Published: Tue, February 11, 2014 @ 12:05 a.m.

By Ed Runyan

[email protected]

 

VIENNA

 

An aviation consultant to the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport, who predicted more than three years ago that Hopkins International Airport in Cleveland might lose its hub status, said Monday that Cleveland’s loss could be the Mahoning Valley’s gain.

 

....Reich said airlines have shown a “wait-and-see attitude” as to whether to start daily air service at the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport, but that is changing now that the Cleveland announcement has occurred.

 

He said the loss of the Cleveland hub takes away one of the biggest arguments the airlines have made in the past for why they wouldn’t give Youngstown-Warren daily flights to a hub airport in Detroit, Washington, D.C. or Chicago.

 

“Now we can say people in the Mahoning Valley are going to be less likely to drive to Cleveland six months from now than they are today,” Reich said.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/feb/11/clevelands-loss-of-united-airlines-hub-l/

Do we really expect airlines to reverse course and start adding flights at small airports like YGN?

 

Maybe not, but it appears that YGN will be getting a flight to Chicago... to be announced on Tuesday!

http://wkbn.com/2017/08/25/allegiant-to-stop-service-at-youngstown-warren-regional-airport/

 

Allegiant pulls the plug.

Only reason I discovered this article is because I had stopped to refuel my car just inside the PA/Ohio border, along I-80, and saw the print headline inside the Truck stop I was at.

http://www.vindy.com/news/2018/sep/16/youngstown-warren-regional-airport-experiences-tur/