21 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I do not think you could have put anymore on that intersection. This was the old Masonic lodge on the site and not much else of a footprint unless you started buying out the neighborhood and demolishing some of the existing houses. They pretty much maximized the footprint there and it certainly does not look great on the side facing Madison Park. 

I don't agree. They could have added a floor or two without the extra parking by paying for a bus pull-out and/or pressured the city for permanent on-street parking on Madison, which is desperately needed. They then offer bus passes and/or discounts to attract residents who commute or telecommute.

18 minutes ago, Dev said:

I don't agree. They could have added a floor or two without the extra parking by paying for a bus pull-out and/or pressured the city for permanent on-street parking on Madison, which is desperately needed. They then offer bus passes and/or discounts to attract residents who commute or telecommute.

But the buildings fronting Madison Park pose a problem because that street is pretty parked up just by the homeowners on the street. Adding around 6-8 street level units (and their cars) would make parking on Madison Park much worse. It is unrealistic to assume or hope that people purchasing a townhome in Oakley or even paying Oakley level rent at that location would be without a car and solely rely on public transportation in that area. 

 

There are a lot of people in that area that are going to have 2 cars because they live together but work in different directions. Many people who live in that area work all over. It is pretty common that one member may work down near UC or downtown while the other working in Mason, Blue Ash or even NKY.  Providing free Metro passes to them accomplishes almost nothing in those cases. 

 

At least with the Masonic lodge there, there were places where the neighbors could park their cars during the day so that the narrow neighborhood street is passable. 

Edited March 14, 20223 yr by Brutus_buckeye

This is exactly why we have the problem we have. Everyone is convinced that every individual needs a car, and every family needs two cars, so we force developers to build two parking spots for every home. This is bad city planning, and we ever want to have more walkable neighborhoods, we need to stop subsidizing cars in developments.

 

For the vast majority of people, Oakley Square is only a 15 minute walk from this development. So many people can work from home now. Not everyone needs 2 parking spots for every unit in a development. Many people get groceries delivered now instead of driving to the store. We should be expecting less parking along major transit routes close to neighborhood business districts.

 

If we can't do this, we will never end the cycle of auto dependency justifying more auto dependency.

8 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

This is exactly why we have the problem we have. Everyone is convinced that every individual needs a car, and every family needs two cars, so we force developers to build two parking spots for every home. This is bad city planning, and we ever want to have more walkable neighborhoods, we need to stop subsidizing cars in developments.

 

For the vast majority of people, Oakley Square is only a 15 minute walk from this development. So many people can work from home now. Not everyone needs 2 parking spots for every unit in a development. Many people get groceries delivered now instead of driving to the store. We should be expecting less parking along major transit routes close to neighborhood business districts.

 

If we can't do this, we will never end the cycle of auto dependency justifying more auto dependency.

That may be an ideal thought, but developments dont happen based on idealism and they have to bend to the constraints of market realities. 

The fact of the matter is that specifically at that location, many people who live there work at jobs that are not in the urban core. Some certainly do of course but bus transit is not set up in a position to get people effectively to and from their workplace. Secondly, the demographic that lives in the area also has jobs that require them to be customer/client centric. They may work in an office or may work from home as their primary office, but their job requires them to be out and meeting client's face to face. That is impractical without efficient parking and access to their vehicles. Even if they work from home, the majority of their clients are not located in Oakley, which requires them to travel to their clients. 

 

Listen, I am all for increased density and changing zoning to allow it. For the particular parcel in question, it really is not feasible to increase the density there for numerous reasons set forth.  If the project was along Delta Ave, it would work better. Different demographic, more street parking possibilities, less busy corner, and not located on a narrow subdivision street that is not already overcrowded with parking to begin with. 

27 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

That may be an ideal thought, but developments dont happen based on idealism and they have to bend to the constraints of market realities. 

The fact of the matter is that specifically at that location, many people who live there work at jobs that are not in the urban core. Some certainly do of course but bus transit is not set up in a position to get people effectively to and from their workplace. Secondly, the demographic that lives in the area also has jobs that require them to be customer/client centric. They may work in an office or may work from home as their primary office, but their job requires them to be out and meeting client's face to face. That is impractical without efficient parking and access to their vehicles. Even if they work from home, the majority of their clients are not located in Oakley, which requires them to travel to their clients. 

 

Listen, I am all for increased density and changing zoning to allow it. For the particular parcel in question, it really is not feasible to increase the density there for numerous reasons set forth.  If the project was along Delta Ave, it would work better. Different demographic, more street parking possibilities, less busy corner, and not located on a narrow subdivision street that is not already overcrowded with parking to begin with. 

 

I guarantee the developer would've gone denser if they were allowed. The demand to live in Oakley is very high. They're not going to make a smaller profit because they are concerned that some neighbors would be angry about parking.

Conveniently forgetting that if they added 2 floors, a parking garage base might be more affordable, making the parking argument a moot point. Both exits out of the subdivision also have traffic lights so the extra cars can be managed.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

 

I guarantee the developer would've gone denser if they were allowed. The demand to live in Oakley is very high. They're not going to make a smaller profit because they are concerned that some neighbors would be angry about parking.

Certainly, they would prefer to put more units on the site if they knew the product would sell. Obviously the existing neighbors have a say in what goes in around them because, like it or not, people do not want a highrise going in next to their single family or they do not want a toxic dump going in next to their house. I am all for free market but the reality is that such freedom of development is not realistic and the neighborhood obviously has a say in the matter. 

5 minutes ago, Dev said:

Conveniently forgetting that if they added 2 floors, a parking garage base might be more affordable, making the parking argument a moot point. Both exits out of the subdivision also have traffic lights so the extra cars can be managed.

Did they propose a parking garage? Would that have fit with the economics of the deal for the developer? 

Townhomes were the only acceptable option for the neighborhood.  I recommend driving to the back side of the property and then rethink proposing a massive apartment building over a parking garage.

 

While I won't comment on the design, the scale fits in well with the surrounding residences.  

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

people do not want a highrise going in next to their single family or they do not want a toxic dump going in next to their house.

Quite the gamut there for things people don't want to live next to.

$12 million Oakley development’s tax break squelched

 

Cincinnati City Council Monday killed a tax abatement for a $12 million retail development in Oakley, with some council members saying they did not believe the incentive was needed to get the project completed.

 

Council’s budget committee voted to kill a property tax abatement valued at $365,636 for the Crossings of Oakley, a 16,200-square-foot development at the northeast corner of Madison Road and Kennedy Avenue being built by Morelia Group whose CEO is developer Christopher Hildebrant.

 

Council members Reggie Harris, Mark Jeffreys, Scotty Johnson, Victoria Parks and Greg Landsman voted down the project. Vice Mayor Jan-Michele Lemon Kearney and council members Meeka Owens, Jeff Cramerding and Liz Keating voted for it. Keating is a Republican, while the other eight members are Democrats.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/03/14/12-million-oakley-developments-tax-break-squelch.html

 

8 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Did they propose a parking garage? Would that have fit with the economics of the deal for the developer? 

Personally, i think it is a bit overly dense for the rest of the neighborhood, especially the backside where the units there abut the street. I feel bad for the house next to the development because it is right on top of it. 

23 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Did they propose a parking garage? Would that have fit with the economics of the deal for the developer? 

I doubt they got that far during the pre-construction phase, which is kind of the park. Community engagement leads to reactionary parking demands, instead of asking how the project can proceed without needing more parking.

On 3/14/2022 at 7:48 PM, ColDayMan said:

$12 million Oakley development’s tax break squelched

 

Cincinnati City Council Monday killed a tax abatement for a $12 million retail development in Oakley, with some council members saying they did not believe the incentive was needed to get the project completed.

 

Council’s budget committee voted to kill a property tax abatement valued at $365,636 for the Crossings of Oakley, a 16,200-square-foot development at the northeast corner of Madison Road and Kennedy Avenue being built by Morelia Group whose CEO is developer Christopher Hildebrant.

 

Council members Reggie Harris, Mark Jeffreys, Scotty Johnson, Victoria Parks and Greg Landsman voted down the project. Vice Mayor Jan-Michele Lemon Kearney and council members Meeka Owens, Jeff Cramerding and Liz Keating voted for it. Keating is a Republican, while the other eight members are Democrats.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/03/14/12-million-oakley-developments-tax-break-squelch.html

 

I didn't realize this development was just going to be a strip mall... Come on! Oakley is so weird in that it's getting more dense but also more suburban as time goes on.

10 hours ago, climberguy714 said:

I didn't realize this development was just going to be a strip mall... Come on! Oakley is so weird in that it's getting more dense but also more suburban as time goes on.

Such a prime opportunity for TOD. Such a shame.

Being nosey on LoopNet I noticed this listing for an 13+ acre site at the edge of Oakley Station/Center of Cincinnati. Of course it is zoned Commercial General - Auto. It might become an interesting test for this post-Cranley administration, especially since it has so much frontage along 71 and is behind CIMCOOL.

The Three Oaks development isn't showing much progress yet. It looks more like a quarry than anything else at this point. 

One of the region’s largest homebuilders eyes 124-townhome project in Oakley

 

One of the largest homebuilders in Greater Cincinnati is eyeing plans for a large townhome development in Oakley.

 

Cristo Homes went to the Oakley Community Council to get support for a planned for-sale townhome development on 7.6 acres at 3033 Jared Ellis Dr. The development, which is known as Arcadia, would include 124 townhomes ranging in price from $375,000 to $675,000.

 

Officials with Cristo Homes did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/04/18/homebuilder-eyes-oakley-for-townhomes.html

 

On 4/16/2022 at 12:55 PM, Cincy_Travels said:

The Three Oaks development isn't showing much progress yet. It looks more like a quarry than anything else at this point. 

 

 

I wonder if there was any environmental reports for this development. I have a bad feeling that they ran into contaminated soil since they prior use was such heavy industry.

1 hour ago, RealAdamP said:

 

I wonder if there was any environmental reports for this development. I have a bad feeling that they ran into contaminated soil since they prior use was such heavy industry.

I never heard anything about that, but I know the cost of materials rising basically put this on hold by Neyer and then the permit expired and things will have to get re-approved etc. so I wouldn't expect this to kick back off anytime soon. The developer doesn't seem to be in a hurry.

Oakley single-family homes to be constructed on Cardiff Avenue

 

A Cincinnati developer plans to construct a dozen new homes in Oakley on a residential street near Oakley Station.

 

The Cincinnati Planning Commission recently approved a final development plan for developers Daniel Kiley, Angelo Pusateri and Jason Laine to build the homes at 3450-3470 Cardiff Ave., which they are calling Cardiff Row. Two industrial buildings on the site will need to be demolished.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/04/29/more-new-single-family-homes-coming-to-oakley.html

 

Construction on new Oakley building to start soon

 

A busy corridor in the heart of Oakley will soon get a new building.

 

Officials told me construction on the new building, which will be more than 5,000 square feet, will start soon. The site, located 3136 Madison Road, is currently home to a parking lot but will soon be the new location of Hyde Park Pediatric Dentistry, which is in Hyde Park Plaza now.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/05/25/construction-on-new-oakley-building-to-start-soon.html

 

Update pics of Graphite Oakley.

 

In my opinion this is a big miss. If they had put retail in this they could have created a really nice entertainment area with very little car traffic due to the dead end street. 

 

 

Here are the renderings. And sorry about the quality of the pics above. I reduced the size to use up less storage so the quality isn't as good. Plus they're phone pics

 

 

16 hours ago, Cincy_Travels said:

Update pics of Graphite Oakley.

 

In my opinion this is a big miss. If they had put retail in this they could have created a really nice entertainment area with very little car traffic due to the dead end street. 

 

 

I’m actually not upset about the apartment buildings. The height is good and they don’t look that bad. The issue if they would have put more retail is it would more than likely end up like how the rest of the retail is at Oakley station with big parking lots and the roads around this aren’t  used since it’s really just the movie theater and that public storage place.
 

 If they want to put in more retail they should use some of that parking lot that the movie theater is on and the empty lot right next too it, I’d love to see more office but I highly doubt that happens, best bet would be another hotel. 
 

There is currently a plan for a mini golf course on the lot right next to Anthem. 

2 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I’m actually not upset about the apartment buildings. The height is good and they don’t look that bad. The issue if they would have put more retail is it would more than likely end up like how the rest of the retail is at Oakley station with big parking lots and the roads around this aren’t  used since it’s really just the movie theater and that public storage place.
 

 If they want to put in more retail they should use some of that parking lot that the movie theater is on and the empty lot right next too it, I’d love to see more office but I highly doubt that happens, best bet would be another hotel. 
 

There is currently a plan for a mini golf course on the lot right next to Anthem. 

 

Yeah I wasn't implying that they should have made more big box retail. I'm saying they could have made retail/commercial spaces for smaller stores, cafes, and restaurants. The whole Oakley Station is a disappointment. They could have made the place a true "work, play, live" kind of neighborhood but instead it's more of a "a few people work here, not much playing going on, and even fewer people living here" kind of neighborhood. 

The Final Development Plan for the Three Oaks development has been submitted to the City Planning Commission.

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/jun-17-2022-packet/

$59 million Graphite Oakley apartments move forward

By Tom Demeropolis  –  Managing editor, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jul 7, 2022

 

A large, luxury apartment community in the heart of Oakley continues to move forward.

 

Hills Properties is building Graphite Oakley, a 316-unit apartment community that will offer access to dining, shopping, entertainment and employers. The project is expected to be a total investment of $59 million.

 

Louis Guttman, CEO of Hills, said as his company’s first community in the city of Cincinnati in several decades, this is a special project.

 

MORE

 

Planning commission will consider a change to the Oakley Station development plan to replace a 5-story office building on Vandercar with a 5-story Fairfield/TownePlace dual brand hotel.

 

Another change would replace a second 5-story office building south of Vandercar and west of the Anthem building with the Covington Yard-like/miniature golf space ("bar/restaurant/recreational/entertainment complex")

 

A third 5-story office building remains in the amended development plan.

 

The small retail building across from the Jerusalem Judson Meadows is now empty. It was containing a fly bungee place and an Envy tan which had been there for many years. I have a feeling that this whole plot of land along Ridge will eventually be bought up and redeveloped. Also the land at the southwest section of Ibsen and Ridge as that is another prime location and will more than likely get redeveloped. 

On 7/9/2022 at 10:16 AM, Ucgrad2015 said:

The small retail building across from the Jerusalem Judson Meadows is now empty. It was containing a fly bungee place and an Envy tan which had been there for many years. I have a feeling that this whole plot of land along Ridge will eventually be bought up and redeveloped. Also the land at the southwest section of Ibsen and Ridge as that is another prime location and will more than likely get redeveloped. 

 

 

Chipotle is taking over the small retail building and adding a drive-thru

44 minutes ago, nicker66 said:

 

Chipotle is taking over the small retail building and adding a drive-thru

Are they keeping their location on Paxton next to HP Kroger or moving it to the new location?

Parking was always such an issue at the old location, but it has been on that corner for over 20 years now so it is known on that space. 

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Are they keeping their location on Paxton next to HP Kroger or moving it to the new location?

Parking was always such an issue at the old location, but it has been on that corner for over 20 years now so it is known on that space. 

I’d assume they would keep the one in Hyde Park as I think that one would still do well even with this new one. Fun fact: Cincinnati has the most Chipotles per capita in the US. 

1 hour ago, nicker66 said:

 

Chipotle is taking over the small retail building and adding a drive-thru

Do you know if there are any design plans for this? Curious as to why they chose this spot and not any of the other vacant pieces of land that are close to this building.
 

Trying to think of how they would do the drive through, and It’s also going to be a pain getting in and out of this location. Definitely better spots they could put this. 

^I thought this project was odd when I saw it go out a few weeks ago, so I just did a little more digging.  The existing 4820 Ridge retail building and the green tattoo house are the same plot of land, and someone bought it in February 2022 for $1.25 mil.  Based on the site plan below, they are demolishing everything and building a two-unit retail building, with Chipotle taking half.  I only found the Chipotle tenant finish plans so I have no other details than the picture below.

 

I assume they'll keep the Paxton location.   I also agree that this stretch of Ridge is a mess but they technically aren't adding any curb cuts.  

On 1/11/2022 at 7:39 PM, zsnyder said:

Just Oakley being Oakley. Shame.

East of the railroad bridge is Madisonville.

On 3/12/2022 at 6:39 AM, Guy23 said:

I don’t get why you’d put townhouses at this awful intersection. My guess is this was supposed to be a much larger apartment development, but the Oakley Community Council shut it down?

Never was any talk of a larger apartment development there, was never anything to "shut down".  There was a third party realtor, acting on behalf of an unnamed developer (rumored to be Walgreens) that had tried to purchase homes on west side of Orkney (backed up to Ridge), on Madison between Ridge & Camberwell, and on the north side of Madison Park - this would have given them the entire corner. Fortunately, the neighborhood organized and majority opted not to sell. OCC asked them for their input for what would be acceptable development in the spot, short of redevelopment of the masonic temple (which never drew any real developer interest).  The folks from red submitted the townhome concept, the only one that was presented/talked about, and worked with the neighbors.  

Feedback seems to be most are happy, as the new buildings cut down on some of the noise and light from Madison & Ridge.

Edited July 24, 20222 yr by jag

On 3/14/2022 at 1:47 PM, Dev said:

Conveniently forgetting that if they added 2 floors, a parking garage base might be more affordable, making the parking argument a moot point. Both exits out of the subdivision also have traffic lights so the extra cars can be managed.

Only the exit at Camberwell is at a light, the other exit is at Orkney & Ridge with no light.

Edited July 24, 20222 yr by jag

looks like the first quarter 2022 comments are being audited.

 

On 5/29/2022 at 4:51 PM, Cincy_Travels said:

 

Yeah I wasn't implying that they should have made more big box retail. I'm saying they could have made retail/commercial spaces for smaller stores, cafes, and restaurants. The whole Oakley Station is a disappointment. They could have made the place a true "work, play, live" kind of neighborhood but instead it's more of a "a few people work here, not much playing going on, and even fewer people living here" kind of neighborhood. 

What is in Oakley Station was not what the community wanted nor worked for - google Millworks Oakley, with Jungle Jim's as major tenant. Combination of recession, city & state decisions and get the mess that there now.

More residential is what we're trying to get, with the new Arcadia townhomes across the street from this.

The Planned Development on east side of Disney, seperate from the former cast fab site, has spaces dedicated for Office which have sat vacant for long time.  With demand for office space falling, not sure what can be put there, as planning commission not being real supportive of zoning change for either the proposed new hotel nor the mixed retail/entertainment/min-golf developments.

Edited July 26, 20222 yr by jag
typo

5 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

looks like the first quarter 2022 comments are being audited.

 

I've been busy, not logged into this site in awhile...catching up

Edited July 24, 20222 yr by jag

On 2/19/2021 at 4:46 PM, Dev said:

Architects do not design roads. The request here appears to be coming from the Community Council, not the people who design roads for a living such as the traffic engineers at DOTE or ODOT.

No, this was absolutely not a community council request, it was 100% DOTE

On 7/14/2022 at 8:30 AM, nicker66 said:

^I thought this project was odd when I saw it go out a few weeks ago, so I just did a little more digging.  The existing 4820 Ridge retail building and the green tattoo house are the same plot of land, and someone bought it in February 2022 for $1.25 mil.  Based on the site plan below, they are demolishing everything and building a two-unit retail building, with Chipotle taking half.  I only found the Chipotle tenant finish plans so I have no other details than the picture below.

 

I assume they'll keep the Paxton location.   I also agree that this stretch of Ridge is a mess but they technically aren't adding any curb cuts.  

Aspen Dentistry planned to be in the other half. 

Regardless of the development (developers of Center for Tomorrow, Oakley Station, DOTE, ODOT, Morelia Group [Madison Rd across from MadTree & just east of Kennedy], Hill [Arcadia?], OCC, City Council, Planning Commission etc), it seems that none of the “deciders'' give a darn about pedestrians,walkability and sustainability, except maybe for a few raised crosswalks or flashers(non-red).  Heck, some developments dont even care about ease of vehicle movement. Sigh. I had great hopes some yrs ago, but my hopes have been quashed repeatedly. So it goes….

SIAP: Pretty substantial townhome development "Arcadia" proposed for old CastFab site, goes before the CPC on Friday. Caught my eye that the build out is expected to proceed in phases and take five years, not complete until 2028.

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/sep-16-2022-packet/

 

 

One interesting thing caught my eye in the letter of support from the Oakley Community Council: "The presentation consisted of an updated proposal for 124 townhomes... with a starting price point in the $350k range. Their initial presentation a month prior was for 94 townhomes starting in the $550k range, but they took our concerns about affordability to heart and came back with a new proposal."

 

Not very often that local community input results in higher density and better affordability. Bravo, Oakley!

Technical/procedural question: why is the Arcadia project listed twice in the Planning Commission agenda, as both Item 8 (legislative, proposed zone change to "Planned Development") and Item 9 (quasi-judicial, recommendation on proposed Planned Development).

There are obvious flaws with the layout/execution of Oakley Station which are very fair. But in total housing units:

 

Boulevard: ~400 apartments

Graphite: ~350 apartments

Arcadia Townhomes: ~100 homes

One hotel completed, and another one on the way.

 

That is a good amount of density - hopefully the rest of the development sees some more traction.

Edited September 14, 20222 yr by wjh2

47 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Technical/procedural question: why is the Arcadia project listed twice in the Planning Commission agenda, as both Item 8 (legislative, proposed zone change to "Planned Development") and Item 9 (quasi-judicial, recommendation on proposed Planned Development).

The first one to change the zone and the second to define/approve the PD itself?

I'm not a landscape architect... but I really hope the developer puts together a deliberate plan for those shared "courtyards". If well designed, the courtyards could be really neat spaces where residents socialize, kids play, and the courtyards could be really neat community features. But if left with just a concrete sidewalk and grass, I worry those shared spaces will feel sterile and be unused. 

 

It doesn't look like the plan has any provision for front porches/stoops, so I'm worried there won't be any reason for residents to hang out in their "front yards".