Not that i have read or heard of... some new windows and paint on this building will do wonders.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/09/16/one-of-cincinnatis-oldest-cocktail-bars-to-reopen.html

 

One of Cincinnati's oldest watering holes will be getting new life when it reopens early next year.

 

Real estate investor Alfred Berger purchased the Bay Horse Cafe building at 625 Main St. in January. He's since partnered with local consultancy Liquor Support Services (LSS) to restore the bar as faithfully as possible to its original vision.

Also interesting note of mention is that the upstair units will be rehabbed into apartments for visiting performers from the Arnoff.

Door was open to Bayhorse Cafe this morning, looked like some work was going on inside.  Anyone have any information on this?

^ They've been SLOWLY working on it for over a year now with not much to show for it. The building still reeks when I walk by.

On 7/19 they applied for a plumbing permit for the following:

 

"commercial,Replace Fixtures - replacing existing stacks building is a mix use building 1st floor is a bar upper floors are apts"

 

What's it smell like? It could be that the stacks are blocked so the sewers are backed up and festering in this nice 90+ degree, humid weather we've been having.

^ Despair and Broken Dreams?

 

I spoke to one of the guys working/co-owning this project. He said that the press release was NOT supposed to happen when it did. It was WAY ahead of them wanting anyone to know about this redevelopment. They are taking their time and do not want to rush anything. It's still happening, but we just knew about it way too soon.

Alfred Berger is horrible for Cincinnati.  He may be a nice guy, he may mean well, but he owns DOZENS of blighted buildings and keeps buying more before he finishes fixing a single one. 

 

He spent $142,000 on the Bay Horse building that he bought yesterday.  You know what I would have rather had him do with $142,000?  Prevent his court street building from collapsing by fixing it up and solving the problem before it was too late. 

 

Or what about the metal blast building.  He stopped work on that... but keeps buying more buildings that need lots of work.  And he bought those two buildings from the Freestore Foodbank (1606 and 1608 Walnut) almost a year ago and nothing seems to have improved there either. 

 

What makes him so dangerous is people are afraid to call him out, because he's pro-preservation, a nice guy, means well, etc.  But he is becoming a slum landlord who owns way more buildings than he can fix in a reasonable amount of time. For many people, buying buildings becomes an addiction, and in Cincinnati you can do that because of the low cost of buildings.  There are hoarders, who think they are helping by buying these up, but in the end, they become part of the problem by rarely completing projects on the other buildings they own.  The Metal Blast building alone probably needs $500K to become usable.  That's the lowest you could expect to spend on that building. 

 

In 2014 alone, Fred Berger has spent over $500K acquiring blighted properties. There comes a point where you need to stop, and complete more projects than buildings you acquire.

 

Almost two years after the Court Street collapse, and it still looks like this...

 

That area is such a weird, quiet part of downtown. For some reason it feels so disconnected from the rest of the CBD and OTR, despite being pretty close to both.

I think it has a hug part to do with those buildings there. Not immediately sure what the other side of the street looks like. But Wash Platform is great and gets a lot of patrons. It is indeed bizarre tho.

Would be great if they could get some sort of tree canopy in that area or at least some bushes and planters on the outside of the sidewalk, it seems like it is a barren part of downtown Des Moines or Wichita, KS

I happened to look in Bay Horse today at lunch. It looks pretty good, the old bar, tin ceilings and old tile floors look great.

Alfred Berger is horrible for Cincinnati.  He may be a nice guy, he may mean well, but he owns DOZENS of blighted buildings and keeps buying more before he finishes fixing a single one. 

 

He spent $142,000 on the Bay Horse building that he bought yesterday.  You know what I would have rather had him do with $142,000?  Prevent his court street building from collapsing by fixing it up and solving the problem before it was too late. 

 

Or what about the metal blast building.  He stopped work on that... but keeps buying more buildings that need lots of work.  And he bought those two buildings from the Freestore Foodbank (1606 and 1608 Walnut) almost a year ago and nothing seems to have improved there either. 

 

What makes him so dangerous is people are afraid to call him out, because he's pro-preservation, a nice guy, means well, etc.  But he is becoming a slum landlord who owns way more buildings than he can fix in a reasonable amount of time. For many people, buying buildings becomes an addiction, and in Cincinnati you can do that because of the low cost of buildings.  There are hoarders, who think they are helping by buying these up, but in the end, they become part of the problem by rarely completing projects on the other buildings they own.  The Metal Blast building alone probably needs $500K to become usable.  That's the lowest you could expect to spend on that building. 

 

In 2014 alone, Fred Berger has spent over $500K acquiring blighted properties. There comes a point where you need to stop, and complete more projects than buildings you acquire.

 

Almost two years after the Court Street collapse, and it still looks like this...

. . .

 

Just to set the record straight. The Court St. building collapse was caused by the neighboring parking lot draining its surface water into the foundation (hidden) of Berger's building. Read about it here:  A 1602610 HISTORIC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY vs. KANU INVESTMENTS LLC. It hasn't been fixed by the neighbor, yet.

 

As for the Bay Horse, they were excited to have the original sign and to have it renovated. It may take a while but, perhaps it won't be a truck turnaround for the Aronoff after all.

 

As for the defamatory remarks about Fred above, I wonder if this forum is actually moderated?

It's not defamation if it's true. 

It's not defamation if it's true.

 

Jeff:

 

That's a pretty snide way of affirming a bunch of nasty remarks above. Just to be clear - are you asserting the truth of the statements about Fred Berger in this thread? I'm pretty sure that the partners at Architects Plus would not support you on that.

It's not defamation if it's true.

 

Jeff:

 

That's a pretty snide way of affirming a bunch of nasty remarks above. Just to be clear - are you asserting the truth of the statements about Fred Berger in this thread? I'm pretty sure that the partners at Architects Plus would not support you on that.

 

 

Wow unknown new dude, way to go from 0-stalker real fast. Easy way to win this argument  would be to note all the buildings that Mr Berger has rebilitated over the years himself. Saving them from demo back in the day was a real good thing to do when they were in danger, but holding them from being restored in an environment when they are desired and likley to be can be just as bad. Just saying that sometimes it is best to finish what you start when you have the money too. His money his decision, but for those of us who like to see things saved it dosent seem to be the best use of funds that we would die to be able to use. Be chill and comment back, dont be all creepy out of nowhere making threats yourself. It is a pretty day to work on preservation.

 

It's not defamation if it's true.

 

Jeff:

 

That's a pretty snide way of affirming a bunch of nasty remarks above. Just to be clear - are you asserting the truth of the statements about Fred Berger in this thread? I'm pretty sure that the partners at Architects Plus would not support you on that.

 

 

Wow unknown new dude, way to go from 0-stalker real fast.

 

One of the best things I've heard in a long time.

 

His/her response got real creepy real quick. And implying they're going to tell jjakucyk's bosses if he doesn't remove his "defamation" (which it most certainly isn't based on the property history others have shown from this guy) is seriously odd. Who does that?

 

I think everyone here knows the guy's intentions are good when he buys these properties. The follow through, or lack thereof, is the problem.

Seriously.  Saying someone is being in over their head, even if they're trying to do the right thing, is being pretty damn fair in the grand scheme of things.  Defamation is "the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual person, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation."  There really aren't any facts in dispute here that I can see, so there's nothing defamatory about any of it.  The opinions of others about this person are just that, opinions, which they have every right to express.  I have no relationship with nor knowledge of the person in question, nor do I know enough about the situation to really have an opinion on his preservation tactics one way or the other, I was merely pointing out that calling statements defamatory does not make them so just because you think they're mean. 

I think I understood exactly the implication of your remark. Everyone else did too. You implied the statements above were true. Fred is a friend of mine so i called you out. Glad you withdrew your snide remark. And, although I think Fred is well acquainted with your firm, as is he with every other person of consequence in the Cincinnati development community, I think i will not point out this dirty little mess to him because it would hurt his feelings.

 

i am new to this forum and new to forum posting in general. I am shocked that a person of  Fred's integrity and contributions to the community would be publicly dragged through the mud by a bunch of people who know very little about him or his projects.

 

And, I'm not the least bit put off by the code of snideness evidenced above. When I figure out who the author of these defamations is I'll see if I can give back as good as they did. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I think I understood exactly the implication of your remark. Everyone else did too. You implied the statements above were true. Fred is a friend of mine so i called you out. Glad you withdrew your snide remark. And, although I think Fred is well acquainted with your firm, as is he with every other person of consequence in the Cincinnati development community, I think i will not point out this dirty little mess to him because it would hurt his feelings.

 

i am new to this forum and new to forum posting in general. I am shocked that a person of  Fred's integrity and contributions to the community would be publicly dragged through the mud by a bunch of people who know very little about him or his projects.

 

And, I'm not the least bit put off by the code of snideness evidenced above. When I figure out who the author of these defamations is I'll see if I can give back as good as they did. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

 

 

 

And so much for dialing back the creepy......Perhaps internet forms are not the best way to communicate your point as you say you are new to them. Best to stick to what i can only assume is your usual method of communication, laminated posterboard signs and screaming at moving cars.

 

Your gratuitous, personal insult is the last refuge of a loser's argument. I am communicating exactly as I should: Standing up for a friend and a person of integrity against poorly informed Internet bullies.

Dude, the guy owns a bunch of buildings, basically all of which haven't been completed and are again deteriorating. That's a fact. We don't dislike the guy, but it's a problem. It's not a personal insult, it's pointing out a problematic property owner.

Your gratuitous, personal insult is the last refuge of a loser's argument. I am communicating exactly as I should: Standing up for a friend and a person of integrity against poorly informed Internet bullies.

 

The latest talk on the bay horse was all good news and praise for the look of the interior. You came out of nowhere to drag up a comment from 8 months ago that was negative all ready to slay the poster like Don Quixote. No one is all good, people have faults this is a group that promotes the good projects and sometimes questions why others had stalled. I am for the Bay Horse project I was for the Jackson brewery project, if these and the others get completed all praise to Fred, however in many cases they seem to be good ideas without results in a city FULL of results lately.

 

No one here is insulting Fred. The "worst" thing anyone here said is that he should take on fewer projects so he can focus on them and complete them, instead of buying even more buildings when he has so many that are in progress.

Hey 1400 Sycamore, this forum is a place where people speak their minds but they do it in a kind, civilized way. I understand if it's your friend, you feel you have to defend him and maybe take it personal, but no one was personally insulting the man who I am certain is someone of high character. People simply have opinions on some things and most people on here would admit if they said something mean or ignorant after it is pointed out to them. No worries here, and everyone is excited for the Bay Horse Cafe!

I don’t know if an older person such as myself can ever become accustomed to the remarks about one’s friends posted on these forums with very little regard for the facts or the consequences of the postings. But, at least I can contribute the following to this discussion.

 

As for Court St., Fred paid a fair price and owned the building for all of 182 days before the building collapsed. It is absurd to say that his lack of care contributed in any way to the collapse. Thank God the building was vacant. And, the building on the other side of the parking lot collapsed before that perhaps from the same cause. And, since the problem has not been addressed by the parking lot owner, nothing is going to happen there for the time being.

 

As for Fred’s other properties, I am not aware of any in-fill buildings he has constructed or habitable properties he has demolished, which are themselves the biggest obstacle to future development in most urban areas. And, for those who think vacancy is an obstacle to development, think again. Bringing a building up to Section 8 inspection standards is a huge obstacle for future development. Once an owner has put $30,000 to $50,000 per door into a building to have it occupied by what are usually the only available tenants, Section 8 tenants, it is far more difficult for a renovation to take place that will truly transform the property and the neighborhood. The affordable housing advocates may be rightfully put off that owners do not settle for creating marginal housing for low income tenants, but the development community should applaud vacancy while the neighborhood catches up with the available housing which can then be meaningfully improved.

 

I could be more explicit about what actually impedes development in these areas, specifically Pendleton and lower Main St., but I am reluctant to join in the chorus of criticism. Suffice it to say that there are actual reasons and they don’t have anything to do with Fred.

I could be more explicit about what actually impedes development in these areas, specifically Pendleton and lower Main St., but I am reluctant to join in the chorus of criticism. Suffice it to say that there are actual reasons and they don’t have anything to do with Fred.

 

So you get angry at people who make a plausible case that this gentleman is land-banking at the expense of actually rehabbing the properties he is purchasing.  You claim these criticism are not based on fact, but then say that while you could actually explain what is going on you choose not to.  There is no reason anyone should respect an opinion based on some sort of hidden facts that you insist are true but require everyone to take on faith.

 

Referencing the court case regarding the collapsed building is a smart and objective way to defend your friend from what you claim are incorrect assumptions.  So if you want to be taken seriously you need to back up your claims that other people are purposefully being untruthful.  Do you get that claiming strangers are purposefully trying to defame your friend is the same type of unsubstantiated claim you say they are making against your friend?

Bay Horse Cafe has their refurbished sign back up! I didn't get a picture as I was zipping by in the streetcar. Anyone have a picture?

Took one Tuesday and forgot to post!

Woo Hoo!! I see the neon in the alley ready to go up too, have they turned it on yet? I almost went up Main last night but instead just kept going on till i got to Vine to avoid seeing the Dennison Hotel remains. Maybe this will be a reason to go up Main St again.

 

The neon was on as of Sunday!

Fred has rescued this property from becoming a part of the Aronoff's parking lot into the return after a short hiatus in its 200 years as a watering hole in downtown. Glad that the sign renovation was noticed, but only Fred would have simply returned this landmark to the charm and place of historic importance it deserved. It is glitz free. Lovely restoration inside preserving even the tile floors.  It may not turn out to be the trendiest place in the CBD, and the Aronoff folks may use all of their powers to oppose it, but look for a soft opening later this month or first of next at the latest. I'll post it first here.

^the sign is great. Is Fred planning to do other things to the building to restore it's place of historic importance, such as removing the rollup steel overhead door framing the current entrance?

I think the roll up door grate will be driven by security needs.

 

I think for the time being, what you see is what you are going to get. I did suggest it would be a hell of an Airbnb.

...only Fred would have simply returned this landmark to the charm and place of historic importance it deserved. It is glitz free.

Sorry, but steel roll up overhead doors, unpainted window sashes and shutters, and the like, do not qualify as "charm" and a return to "place of historic importance".  Give me a break about security concerns.

 

And no I'm not a conservation snob. It's called taking proper care of stuff.

 

You just don't spend money on a sign restoration before these things.

I didn't say the roll up would stay or go. I said it would be driven by security concerns.

 

Geez, another sidewalk superintendent who can't take a bit of good news without pissing on someone.

Yeah, the gentrifying sidewalk superintendents are everywhere it seems, these days.

Soft Opening Friday 30th and Sat 31st. Uber not invited. :-D :-D :-D

I agree with 1400 Sycamore -- it's glitz free and unpretentiously rehabbed.  It looks like as much as possible that's original has been preserved and restored, and any new additions seem to fit in seamlessly.  It amazes me that so much of the original floor tile remained intact.  The bar was apparently salvaged from another location but looks right at home in the Bay Horse.

 

Well done!!! 

 

I hope this thoughtful rehab project inspires others in the vicinity to do their part.  The jewelry store, Richter and Phillips, did a beautiful job when they moved across to the other corner.  The old Spatz Health Food  building and old Player Piano Shop need some serious investment and I hope it's not too long before it happens.  Parts of Main Street have been about the most decrepit areas of the CBD for too long.  Restoration of the Bay Horse Cafe is a big step in the right direction.

Last night's reopening as captured by 5chw4r7z[/member]  http://5chw4r7z.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-bay-horse-cafe.html

Nice write up. The place has a great feel. Old school bar.