I can't see the pics since it's behind a paywall

 

If you set up a free account, you can view the photos.

Agreed, I love all the conversions going on, and I'm not advocating that we need new towers, just an optics thing to realize how much is actually going on.

 

You can tell in the renderings what they were going for

 

In one room there are FOUR floor finishes and two wildly different wallpapers/patterns.

I was just downtown as I go frequently to the Chamber for commercial document attestation, and really hoping we can get a couple repuroposed buildings done:

 

The Traction Building on Walnut and Fith, and the Ingalls Building on the NE Corner of 4th and Vine.

 

Also, when the heck is the 4th and Race project going to get moving? Those 3 buildings represent a huge amount of investment sorely needed in their respective spots.

The Traction building is going to become a hotel but they haven't gotten the historic tax credits needed so no construction has started.  They're applying for their third time so hopefully they get them this go around.  The Ingalls building is going up for sale so hopefully a new owner will do something with it.  4th and Race, who knows whats going on with that.  I have no idea when that will get started. 

I was just downtown as I go frequently to the Chamber for commercial document attestation, and really hoping we can get a couple repuroposed buildings done:

 

The Traction Building on Walnut and Fith, and the Ingalls Building on the NE Corner of 4th and Vine.

 

Also, when the heck is the 4th and Race project going to get moving? Those 3 buildings represent a huge amount of investment sorely needed in their respective spots.

 

4th and Race was Cranleyfied.  More proof that this town is hostile to outsiders. You've got to be one of the good old boys to get anything done in this city. It shuts out so much talent.

^I'm pretty sure it was merely put on unofficial hold until it was known whether or not it was needed for Amazon. I have a feeling we'll see/hear about construction soon now that that's out of the picture.

^ I've not heard the Amazon excuse given anywhere? Where did you hear that? The project was supposed to be ready to go until...it wasn't. Yet the Kroger development magically went from announcement to construction very fast. The Cran man issued all these announcements about projects coming 'back online' right before the election (Skyhouse, 4th and Race), and yet none of these projects have progressed at all. Hmm...

I was just downtown as I go frequently to the Chamber for commercial document attestation, and really hoping we can get a couple repuroposed buildings done:

 

The Traction Building on Walnut and Fith, and the Ingalls Building on the NE Corner of 4th and Vine.

 

Also, when the heck is the 4th and Race project going to get moving? Those 3 buildings represent a huge amount of investment sorely needed in their respective spots.

 

4th and Race was Cranleyfied.  More proof that this town is hostile to outsiders. You've got to be one of the good old boys to get anything done in this city. It shuts out so much talent.

 

This is THE issue for Cincinnati. The way that natives circle the wagons against outsiders is still shocking to me after 6 years here. It crosses all social divisions, liberal to conservative, rich to poor, and all racial and ethnic identities. All are unified by a loyalty to Cincinnati that trumps competence, experience, effort...and often even financial interests.

^ I've not heard the Amazon excuse given anywhere? Where did you hear that? The project was supposed to be ready to go until...it wasn't. Yet the Kroger development magically went from announcement to construction very fast. The Cran man issued all these announcements about projects coming 'back online' right before the election (Skyhouse, 4th and Race), and yet none of these projects have progressed at all. Hmm...

 

The 4th and Race site was the spot they cited as where a new Amazon headquarters tower would be with supporting buildings throughout. It was merely extrapolating this fact. The timing of the project suddenly not moving forward and the Amazon bids being due is what leads me to believe it was at least a part of the reason. Maybe (likely?) not the entire reason, but it is something to consider.

^ I've not heard the Amazon excuse given anywhere? Where did you hear that? The project was supposed to be ready to go until...it wasn't. Yet the Kroger development magically went from announcement to construction very fast. The Cran man issued all these announcements about projects coming 'back online' right before the election (Skyhouse, 4th and Race), and yet none of these projects have progressed at all. Hmm...

 

The 4th and Race site was the spot they cited as where a new Amazon headquarters tower would be with supporting buildings throughout. It was merely extrapolating this fact. The timing of the project suddenly not moving forward and the Amazon bids being due is what leads me to believe it was at least a part of the reason. Maybe (likely?) not the entire reason, but it is something to consider.

 

At no point did we ever have a chance to land Amazon's second HQ. The "short list" of 20 cities was a remarkable bit of PR in probably one of the best earned media/race to the bottom government subsidy plays in a while.

^ I've not heard the Amazon excuse given anywhere? Where did you hear that? The project was supposed to be ready to go until...it wasn't. Yet the Kroger development magically went from announcement to construction very fast. The Cran man issued all these announcements about projects coming 'back online' right before the election (Skyhouse, 4th and Race), and yet none of these projects have progressed at all. Hmm...

 

The 4th and Race site was the spot they cited as where a new Amazon headquarters tower would be with supporting buildings throughout. It was merely extrapolating this fact. The timing of the project suddenly not moving forward and the Amazon bids being due is what leads me to believe it was at least a part of the reason. Maybe (likely?) not the entire reason, but it is something to consider.

 

4th & Race was included in the Amazon proposal, but that is not the primary reason the project was delayed.

 

In order to make the financing work for most downtown developments in this town, at this point in time, developers need to build a "Cincinnati Special", which consists of 1 floor of retail + x floors of parking + x floors of apartments. When Cranley got involved, he split this project up into two parts: the retail/parking part (managed by 3CDC), and the apartment part (managed by F&C). But now, 3CDC can't get financing for the garage until F&C gets financing for the apartments. And F&C can't get financing for the apartments until 3CDC gets financing for the garage. So a project that could've been approved years ago got way more complicated because a meddling mayor decided to split it in two.

^But how is that any different than the other two buildings being developed the same way though right now? 3CDC did the garage portion of 8th and Sycamore and is doing the garage portion of the Kroger tower. On top of that, 3CDC was always going to be the developer of the garage, no? It was always going to be an overscaled garage for the building above and way outside of the needs of Flaherty and Collins.

 

I know the delay wasn't caused by Amazon. I'm just saying the continued delay may have had to do with the fact that the city wanted to hold off on doing something with the site so they could use it in their proposal. What that means moving forward is still to be seen, but in order to put it in their proposal they had to actively choose to not move forward with the current plan until after they were officially rejected.

^^ The problem with the "Cincinnati Special" retail+garage+upper stories combo is that they require complicated government involved deals so it ends up that you can only do one at a time and they seem to have a 2-4 year cycle.

 

I wonder if the Fourth & Race project could use a re-design where they have one to two floors of underground parking but then split the project into 3, 4, or even 5 mid rise buildings.  I think that would be a better compliment to the historic buildings across the street that will otherwise be eye-level with the garage facade.  I wonder if that would help get something built more quickly or if the current project really is just around the corner as they are saying. 

I think Kroger is a different situation because the Kroger Company itself is providing some of the financing, and having a major tenant lined up for the retail space makes the overall project less risky and banks are more willing to lend. With Fourth and Race, sources have told me that both 3CDC and F&C have financing lined up for their half, but neither bank is willing to commit until the other gets their bank to commit. You would think they could just get all parties in the same room and get everybody on the same page, but apparently it's not that simple.

If true, that sounds like one of the dumbest reasons why something would be delayed, but totally plausible and not at all surprising. Getting all parties to sit down for a closing on a simple condo can be a challenge. I can't even imagine trying to coordinate two major bank loans for tens of millions of dollars who are both unwilling to be the first to pull the trigger.

RE: "Cincinnati Special"

 

Flathery & Collins could not obtain financing.  I believe they were asked by the bank to explore adding another floor or two to make the numbers work but I am pretty sure this project is dead, or at least what will go on top of the garage is dead.

 

The other buildings had North American Properties develop the apartment portion.  I guess the are more sound financially than F&C. 

 

Amazon had zero to do with the delay.  That is just as funny as Corporex blaming FC Cincinnati on the Ovation delay. 

Not really. I wasn't saying they were the cause, but that if you offer up a site you can't really move forward with anything else on that site until you're rejected. So for that period, however long it was, there was no ability for any aspect of the plan to really go anywhere.

 

And nothing you are saying about F&C is official yet. Where is your info coming from? They still list it on their site and there hasn't been anything official in awhile. I don't have high hopes necessarily, but until F&C says, "it's dead" there's no reason to believe otherwise.

City Club Apartments adding European-inspired specialty market, cafe

 

City Club Apartments CBD Cincinnati has signed a lease for a 10,000-square-foot European-inspired specialty market and a 1,000-square-foot wellness cafe on the first floor of the building.

 

Jonathan Holtzman, chairman and CEO of City Club Apartments, 309 Vine St., said downtown residents and visitors “are long overdue for this first-to-market amenity.”

 

“City leadership, continued housing demand, expanding employment base, entertainment, arts and culture, restaurants, colleges, hospitals, sporting events, concerts, walkability and mass transit are all factors that made this the right location decision for the owner,” Holtzman said in a news release.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/11/13/city-club-apartments-cincinnati-adding-european.html

 

Pretty great that downtown Cincinnati will gain over 50,000 SF of grocery stores by the end of next year with the Court and Walnut Kroger and this unnamed Market, all within 3 blocks of a streetcar stop.

City Club Apartments adding rooftop restaurant and bar

By Tom Demeropolis  – Senior Staff Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

City Club Apartments CBD Cincinnati has signed a lease for a more than 6,100-square-foot rooftop restaurant and bar at the top of the mixed-use building.

The rooftop restaurant and bar, which is scheduled to open in spring 2019, will be located on the 10th floor with indoor and outdoor seating. The space will have panoramic views of the city, stadiums and Ohio riverfront. Jonathan Holtzman, chairman and CEO of City Club Apartments, did not disclose the owners of the restaurant. He said in a news release the owners will introduce themselves and share additional details soon.

 

MORE

Since there is no thread (that I could find at least) dedicated to City Club 309 Vine Apartments...I noticed on the website, that it says that the Grocery Store, Wine bar/Coffee bar are leased and the 3rd floor, "Entertainment Space (whatever that means)" is in negotiations. 

 

https://www.cityclubapartments.com/usa/cincinnati-oh/downtown/city-club-apartments-cbd/commercial/

 

That said, I wonder what are the chances of City Club landing a grocery chain like Traders Joe? I know with the new Downtown Kroger it might make landing a second grocery store to the urban core difficult...but I do think a smaller footprint Organic Grocery store like a Traders Joe or an Aldi could still work in conjunction with the new downtown kroger. 

Edited September 6, 20195 yr by troeros

On 9/5/2019 at 11:56 AM, troeros said:

309 Vine, PNC Tower, and 4th and Race alone will bring 820 new downtown residents within a block of one and another. 

 

Add any potential mixed use residential development at the convention parking lot site, and will probably reach over a 1,000-,1,100 residents in such a small radius. This movement is beyond amazing!

 

 

Only FYI, but I believe I read 309 Vine is 95% leased. Still, all good stuff, you add the Ingalls Building Hotel, and a few others on 4th, and it will be really good to add all these new developments.

11 minutes ago, troeros said:

 "Entertainment Space (whatever that means)

 

It's either another dueling piano bar or another sky wheel  

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

 another sky wheel  

If we can get four sky wheels, we can build the World's Largest Monster Truck and have each ferris wheel be a wheel on the truck.

 

17 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

If we can get four sky wheels, we can build the World's Largest Monster Truck and have each ferris wheel be a wheel on the truck.

 

 

Twine:

 

 

 

Now we're talking. The tire would probably work better in Dayton or Akron though. A ferris wheel of P&G products? 

 

16 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

If we can get four sky wheels, we can build the World's Largest Monster Truck and have each ferris wheel be a wheel on the truck.

 

 

Did this commercial component ever open?
 

“A restaurant inspired by the beach communities of Europe is coming to the ground floor of the City Club Apartments downtown this spring.

 

The Bathhouse, a wellness cafe inside of the City Club Apartments at 309 Vine St., is set to open this spring as the first portion of the Mercato Fabbrica, a culinary destination displayed in marketplace or department store style.”

More here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/02/24/restaurant-opening-in-downtowns-city-club.html

Edited August 16, 20204 yr by UncleRando

Just walked by there a few days ago and did not see any street level activity.