I don't hate Dan; I'm just saying that people voted for the casino issue because he promised he'd develop the riverfront property.  Instead, he has a gambling monopoly without investing as much as we thought.  I'm not calling him crooked, but it'd be hard to defend him when, at this point, it can be argued that he sold us a false bill of goods.

 

We are reaching five years.  That is a long time to not have any kind of plan or concept. 

But it's not a monopoly. The state gov changed that after the fact by allowing racinos. I do think phase 2 will happen, but I think it will be a much more calculated project. 

We are reaching five years.  That is a long time to not have any kind of plan or concept. 

 

Just because he hasn't shared the plan publicly doesn't mean there isn't one. Many plans don't see the public light until after the financing is nailed down since the scope of financing often dictates the shape/design of a project.

I don't hate Dan; I'm just saying that people voted for the casino issue because he promised he'd develop the riverfront property.  Instead, he has a gambling monopoly without investing as much as we thought.  I'm not calling him crooked, but it'd be hard to defend him when, at this point, it can be argued that he sold us a false bill of goods.

 

We are reaching five years.  That is a long time to not have any kind of plan or concept. 

 

What do you consider an appropriate time frame.  IMO, five years is where a project of this magnitude is just beginning/starting.

I think there needs to be a certain amount of transparency, considering that this was a voter approved project.  There has also been no indication that this project is, indeed, beginning/starting. 

I'm not even complaining that construction hasn't started, but more that there is no indication of any activity, planning or otherwise.  The only assurance is the, increasingly hollow, appeal that Dan wouldn't spend $80 million on a property that he isn't going to develop.  He might have, in fact, done just that.

I don't hate Dan; I'm just saying that people voted for the casino issue because he promised he'd develop the riverfront property.  Instead, he has a gambling monopoly without investing as much as we thought.  I'm not calling him crooked, but it'd be hard to defend him when, at this point, it can be argued that he sold us a false bill of goods.

 

We are reaching five years.  That is a long time to not have any kind of plan or concept. 

 

Agreed

The gambling district was voter-approved, the timeline or financing wasn't. That part is up to the market.

The gambling district was voter-approved, the timeline or financing wasn't. That part is up to the market.

Well said.  bob Stark said he was going to build on the WHD lots.  Zaremba promised much bigger with the AD.  The list could go on.  It's no different with Gilbert.  The market will drive his decision. 

^and was this "point" made clear to the voters when the casinos were being promoted.

The "point" was no mystery and should be assumed.  Economics drive real estate development.  Dan Gilbert is a lot of things but unprofitable is not among them.  I'm still a little miffed that everyone seems to have concluded that the NEO market can so easily sustain another gambling operation, particularly one the size phase II is supposed to be.  We now have the Horseshoe, the Rocksino, and the Racino.  The Rocksino and Racino capture a lot of the suburban market that will not come downtown while the Horseshoe captures the downtown gaming crowd.  The Horseshoe continues to post revenues below projections (the projections were probably too high anyways) probably because the latter 2 eat into the slot playing crowd.  Given all of this, I probably wouldn't build a huge new casino either.  This is why I think the end result will probably be more mixed use, but we still aren't at a point in the market that we can easily support new construction of such.

Which brings us to whether or not this will ever come to fruition.

The "point" was no mystery and should be assumed.  Economics drive real estate development.  Dan Gilbert is a lot of things but unprofitable is not among them.  I'm still a little miffed that everyone seems to have concluded that the NEO market can so easily sustain another gambling operation, particularly one the size phase II is supposed to be.  We now have the Horseshoe, the Rocksino, and the Racino.  The Rocksino and Racino capture a lot of the suburban market that will not come downtown while the Horseshoe captures the downtown gaming crowd.  The Horseshoe continues to post revenues below projections (the projections were probably too high anyways) probably because the latter 2 eat into the slot playing crowd.  Given all of this, I probably wouldn't build a huge new casino either.  This is why I think the end result will probably be more mixed use, but we still aren't at a point in the market that we can easily support new construction of such.

 

Now that NBA season has started, I would like to see what 4Q reports show vs. 3q and 4Q2013 and 4Q2012

The gambling district was voter-approved, the timeline or financing wasn't. That part is up to the market.

 

Speaking of the market---gambling is down, but residential and hotels downtown are way up.  I wouldn't put it past Gilbert to think outside the box and do something with mixed use on the site.  Would love to see a riverfront residential/office complex, that just happens to house Phase II on the first few floors.

^I don't think this is any out of the box thinking.  The "spokesmen" have already said in the past that this is what the development will be (if the casino is built at all...as I have posted before...I was never skeptic but unfortunately have become one more and more as the months go by, other facilities come on line and casino revenues continue to stagnate or go down).

The gambling district was voter-approved, the timeline or financing wasn't. That part is up to the market.

 

it was a bait & switch.  Gilbert promised thousands of jobs building the new casino, that's the only reason people got behind it.  They went ahead & released renderings of the possible Ontario/Huron street interface.  Of course nothing was required or guaranteed in terms of construction timeline but it was certainly misleading

Shocker. A rich guy said he would provide thousands of jobs if you vote for his initiative. Then the primary thing that happens is the rich guy gets richer. Shocker....

^ Then let's just throw our hands in the air like a mother that can't control her kid. "Well, what am I gonna do with him?" The voters approved a single new casino in each of 4 major cities in Ohio. The constitutional amendment even listed the parcels that the casino in Cleveland would be constructed on. I did not vote for the Horseshoe in the Higbee building. And I certainly don't remember voting for the casino's in the suburbs -- one of which is owned by Gilbert and Rock gaming.

 

They should have their gaming license revoked for not following the constitutional amendment. Realistically that will never happen. Once the municipalities get a taste of the tax money, they will never give it up.

 

edit: Here is the exact text of the measure. See pages 9-12.

 

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/publications/election/Issues_09.pdf

 

^The amendment "authorized" casinos at certain locations, which included the Higbees Building. Gilbert may have delivered less than we expected (based on a shared misread of the market, I'd argue, and the racinos), but his downtown operations certainly haven't operated outside of the amendment.

 

The racinos just offer video lottery terminals that are part of the Ohio Lottery, no?  If so, I guess we can thank the governor for that.

^The amendment "authorized" casinos at certain locations, which included the Higbees Building. Gilbert may have delivered less than we expected (based on a shared misread of the market, I'd argue, and the racinos), but his downtown operations certainly haven't operated outside of the amendment.

 

The racinos just offer video lottery terminals that are part of the Ohio Lottery, no?  If so, I guess we can thank the governor for that.

 

I skimmed through the language in the ballot measure so maybe I missed it. Where did it allow for an alternate location in the Higbee? I like the Horseshoe in the Higbee building, but I understand completely why people feel snookered by Gilbert. Cleveland didn't get what they voted for. The solution is not to just accept it, like boys will be boys.

 

I haven't seen the video lottery terminals in person. Isn't it basically just a slot machine? It sounds like semantics to get around the casino amendment.

^This is one of the enumerated sites in the ballot language, as shown in that doc:

 

Consisting of floors one through four,

mezzanine, basement, sub-basement,

Parcel No. 36-2, Item III, Parcels First

and Second, Item V, Parcel A, and

Item VI, Parcel One of the Higbee

Building in Cuyahoga County, Ohio,

as identified by the Cuyahoga County

Auditor, as of 2/29/09, as tax parcel

numbers 101-23-002 and 101-23-

050F and all lands and air rights lying

within and/or above the public rights

of way adjacent to such parcels.

 

I don't really know how the VLT work or how they look, but I think they came out of a negotiated deal between Kasich and the track owners: http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/oct/18/video-lottery-terminals-on-a-fast-track/?print

So maybe a creative way to open up gambling further outside the four corners of the amendment, but I think it was a joint project by the gambling companies and the current administration.

As of now, I am not losing any sleep over the lack of progress on Phase II for a few reasons.

 

First, if there is no development whatsoever on the riverfront property, I don't see how that land is worth anywhere near the $80 Million that Danny Boy paid for it. Which means that he made a very bad investment. Danny Boy may be a lot of things, but to my knowledge a piss poor investor is not one of them.

 

Second, he likes to think of himself as a self made billionaire who owns multiple professional sports teams. In other words, he - like virtually all other sports team owners - is an absolute egomaniac. Now I've heard from a few people who've met him, and even had dinner at his house in Detroit, that he's a very nice guy. The type of guy I'd love to have a beer with. But he's an egomaniac nevertheless. He's also only 52 years old. Which suggests that he likely still has plenty of energy and desire left to continue "growing his empire." A youngish egomaniac with immense resources at his disposal isn't very likely to admit defeat. And again, to a guy like this, indefinitely holding a bad real estate investment is most certainly a defeat. So he "has to" either develop that land at some point or sell it off.

 

Third, and most importantly, laws are not unchangeable. Even Ohio's Constitution is not unchangeable. Gilbert knows this better than anyone. If enough time goes by with no development on that land, "We The People" can always attempt to force his hand by modifying the laws that Mendo so graciously cited. We could go about this in a few different ways. We can propose that, if not developed by a certain date, the riverfront property be removed from the parcels a casino is allowed on. That lowers the future value of the riverfront property and makes his $80 Million investment an even more horrendous mistake. Better yet, we can propose that a second casino be allowed on different land in Cleveland... maybe somewhere along the lakefront. Given that most Ohioans recognize that the sky did not actually fall down after casinos opened here, I don't think it's too out of line to imagine eventually passing an amendment allowing a second casino in Cleveland. And although it's my least favorite option, as numerous folks have pointed out, we can always propose either to disallow gaming within the Higbee Building or even pulling Rock Ohio's gaming license altogether. Importantly, I'm not even sure any of these legislative options actually has to pass. It's entirely possible that just the threat of legislative action might be enough to force Rock Ohio to develop the riverfront land sooner rather than later.

 

In summary, I still believe that we will hear definitive plans for a mixed use development including a casino floor on that land within the next 3 years or so, with a completion date scheduled for around 2020. But if not, as rich and powerful as Gilbert is, technically "We The People" still hold all the cards when it comes to casinos (pardon the bad pun.)

^ Then let's just throw our hands in the air like a mother that can't control her kid. "Well, what am I gonna do with him?" The voters approved a single new casino in each of 4 major cities in Ohio. The constitutional amendment even listed the parcels that the casino in Cleveland would be constructed on. I did not vote for the Horseshoe in the Higbee building. And I certainly don't remember voting for the casino's in the suburbs -- one of which is owned by Gilbert and Rock gaming.

 

They should have their gaming license revoked for not following the constitutional amendment. Realistically that will never happen. Once the municipalities get a taste of the tax money, they will never give it up.

 

edit: Here is the exact text of the measure. See pages 9-12.

 

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/publications/election/Issues_09.pdf

 

 

Bad analogy. A parent has a legal responsibility for his/her child. A voter has no legal responsibility over whether a corporation builds a casino, and a corporation certainly has no responsibility to build one. These corporations wrote the ballot language. They would never have put any undue burdens on themselves, pending voter approval of the language. The corporations identified in the ballot language have an authorization to build casinos, what kinds of gambling can be offered and where the gambling can be offered. But that's all.

 

You as a citizen have every right to force the creation of new laws on businesses such as by urging the state general assembly to pass laws or by collecting petition signatures to put on the ballot an amendment that puts more restrictive language on the ballot. Or you could recognize the right of corporations to carry out business activities under  market conditions and within the confines of existing laws. Those are pretty much your only legal options.

We can pressure our political leaders to stop being so passive.  The skywalk was a perfect example of how the city could have tried to hold rock gaming's feet to the fire. 

We can pressure our political leaders to stop being so passive.  The skywalk was a perfect example of how the city could have tried to hold rock gaming's feet to the fire. 

 

True, and in that regard I think many of our elected leaders don't feel confident enough in the city's competitiveness to make demands of potential job providers. And as much as it would make us feel good to have our elected leaders demand that Dan Gilbert build phase 2 of the casino, it would only be political theater in absence of actions that improve the market conditions for constructing a new casino such as providing significant new subsidies. Now THAT would be a hard sell.

Bait and switch

 

The people of Ohio voted for a "new" casino on the riverfront, not a remodel.

Yes, Dan Gilbert has a lot of nerve, taking an empty neglected building in the heart of downtown and building a business.  He should have left it empty.  I'm sure there were people lining up with better plans for the Higbee Building.

 

How dare he make money on his investment!

Yes, Dan Gilbert has a lot of nerve, taking an empty neglected building in the heart of downtown and building a business.  He should have left it empty.  I'm sure there were people lining up with better plans for the Higbee Building.

 

How dare he make money on his investment!

It's great that the Higbee bldg was put to use and I don't even mind the de-facing with the walkway.

 

But remodeling the Higbee was not what was put on a ballot, voted on, and in the constitution.  A "new" casino on the specific river front parcel was/is..

Bait and switch

 

The people of Ohio voted for a "new" casino on the riverfront, not a remodel.

 

Show me in the ballot language where it requires him to build anything. Is there a deadline for taking action? Nope. Voters only gave him permission to do so. He will build it if/when he's ready. Next update....

But remodeling the Higbee was not what was put on a ballot, voted on, and in the constitution. 

 

I'm failing to understand why people continue to say the above.  Actually the Higbee property WAS put on the ballot (as a parcel option for the Cleveland casino), WAS voted on, and IS in the constitution.  Gun to my head, I'm willing to bet (pun intended) that the riverfront property does EVENTUALLY get built - probably in more of a mixed used form then originally proposed.  And why wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?  Yea, it stinks that it is taking so long, but I'd rather it be done right than wrong.  Gilbert gets one bite at the apple here and with recent proposals/rumors in this neighborhood (NuCLEus, Moreno, etc.) there should be visions of a nice transformation here in the next 5 years.  But, in the interim we have a repurposing of a prime property that was becoming neglected and was at risk of becoming even more dormant.  Plenty of examples of large, former department stores, particularly in the Midwest, that have become totally vacant or worse, demolished. 

Yes, Dan Gilbert has a lot of nerve, taking an empty neglected building in the heart of downtown and building a business.  He should have left it empty.  I'm sure there were people lining up with better plans for the Higbee Building.

 

How dare he make money on his investment!

It's great that the Higbee bldg was put to use and I don't even mind the de-facing with the walkway.

 

But remodeling the Higbee was not what was put on a ballot, voted on, and in the constitution.  A "new" casino on the specific river front parcel was/is..

 

That is not correct. And unless you just haven't read upthread, you know that.

Really I feel like this debate keeps popping up on this thread every 4-6 months as we wait for Gilbert to make a move on the riverfront site. 

 

The Higbee building was specifically stated as a viable space along with the riverfront site as a part of the constitutional provision.  The language "allows" for a casino, but does not mandate it.

 

Gilbert is going to be raking in some cash over the next few years with Lebron back home, let's hope he stays consistent and does the right thing to improve Cleveland.    He's going to want to recoup some of his $80 million investment in the riverfront.  I have a feeling something is in the works that will make us all very happy, and my personal hope is that it does NOT include a casino. 

Really I feel like this debate keeps popping up on this thread every 4-6 months as we wait for Gilbert to make a move on the riverfront site. 

 

 

Yep. He'll build it whenever he's ready. Until then, there's plenty of other cool stuff going on to keep us urban development geeks interested.

Really I feel like this debate keeps popping up on this thread every 4-6 months as we wait for Gilbert to make a move on the riverfront site. 

 

The Higbee building was specifically stated as a viable space along with the riverfront site as a part of the constitutional provision.  The language "allows" for a casino, but does not mandate it.

 

Gilbert is going to be raking in some cash over the next few years with Lebron back home, let's hope he stays consistent and does the right thing to improve Cleveland.    He's going to want to recoup some of his $80 million investment in the riverfront.  I have a feeling something is in the works that will make us all very happy, and my personal hope is that it does NOT include a casino. 

 

Very good points... I'm personally satisfied with the casino as it is.  Yeah, I know some hardcore gamblers think gripe that it's "cramped," but I love the energy and excitement currently in the Higbee's space and really wonder if it will become watered down if the casino is extended south of Huron.  I agree, I'd like to see some mixed-use residential, retail in the Huron space more than expanded casino space -- remember, the constitutional  provision calls for only  1 full-service casino per each of the 4 big cities, and Gilbert was able to finesse the constitutional language so that, therefore, he would technically be allowed to extend the Higbee's space as opposed to creating a new casino along Huron ... Is there really that many people descending on downtown Cleveland who want to gamble that would warrant such a mega gambling facility? 

 

Also,  I have no idea  what lafont is talking about re Gilbert's fulfilling his mandated promise: Cleveland's Horseshoe casino consistently posts better revenue numbers than any of the 3 other full-service houses.

I believe that phase 2 will have gambling of some sort. It would be stupid not to, but it will definitely be mixed use. I think they're trying to find the right balance of gambling and mixed use

Really I feel like this debate keeps popping up on this thread every 4-6 months as we wait for Gilbert to make a move on the riverfront site. 

 

The Higbee building was specifically stated as a viable space along with the riverfront site as a part of the constitutional provision.  The language "allows" for a casino, but does not mandate it.

 

Gilbert is going to be raking in some cash over the next few years with Lebron back home, let's hope he stays consistent and does the right thing to improve Cleveland.    He's going to want to recoup some of his $80 million investment in the riverfront.  I have a feeling something is in the works that will make us all very happy, and my personal hope is that it does NOT include a casino. 

 

Very good points... I'm personally satisfied with the casino as it is.  Yeah, I know some hardcore gamblers think gripe that it's "cramped," but I love the energy and excitement currently in the Higbee's space and really wonder if it will become watered down if the casino is extended south of Huron.  I agree, I'd like to see some mixed-use residential, retail in the Huron space more than expanded casino space -- remember, the constitutional  provision calls for only  1 full-service casino per each of the 4 big cities, and Gilbert was able to finesse the constitutional language so that, therefore, he would technically be allowed to extend the Higbee's space as opposed to creating a new casino along Huron ... Is there really that many people descending on downtown Cleveland who want to gamble that would warrant such a mega gambling facility? 

 

Also,  I have no idea  what lafont is talking about re Gilbert's fulfilling his mandated promise: Cleveland's Horseshoe casino consistently posts better revenue numbers than any of the 3 other full-service houses.

 

That's a really good point.  Any time I've been to the casino it's always seemed full and bustling, and that's likely due to the more intimate layout of Higbee.  I've been to Atlantic City and inside empty casinos, which feel depressing at best.

Really I feel like this debate keeps popping up on this thread every 4-6 months as we wait for Gilbert to make a move on the riverfront site. 

 

The Higbee building was specifically stated as a viable space along with the riverfront site as a part of the constitutional provision.  The language "allows" for a casino, but does not mandate it.

 

Gilbert is going to be raking in some cash over the next few years with Lebron back home, let's hope he stays consistent and does the right thing to improve Cleveland.    He's going to want to recoup some of his $80 million investment in the riverfront.  I have a feeling something is in the works that will make us all very happy, and my personal hope is that it does NOT include a casino. 

 

Very good points... I'm personally satisfied with the casino as it is.  Yeah, I know some hardcore gamblers think gripe that it's "cramped," but I love the energy and excitement currently in the Higbee's space and really wonder if it will become watered down if the casino is extended south of Huron.  I agree, I'd like to see some mixed-use residential, retail in the Huron space more than expanded casino space -- remember, the constitutional  provision calls for only  1 full-service casino per each of the 4 big cities, and Gilbert was able to finesse the constitutional language so that, therefore, he would technically be allowed to extend the Higbee's space as opposed to creating a new casino along Huron ... Is there really that many people descending on downtown Cleveland who want to gamble that would warrant such a mega gambling facility? 

 

Also,  I have no idea  what lafont is talking about re Gilbert's fulfilling his mandated promise: Cleveland's Horseshoe casino consistently posts better revenue numbers than any of the 3 other full-service houses.

 

If they were going to spend a lot of money on the property, I would rather a world class Monte Carlo type Phase I, rather than a sprawling gloppy Phase I and Phase II.

 

So this isn't directly about phase II but is certainly germane to the earlier discussion about its viability:

 

 

Horseshoe Casino Cleveland in October didn't capitalize on tens of thousands of sports fans, according to revenue report

 

"CLEVELAND, Ohio – Horseshoe Casino Cleveland's revenues for October were more than $2 million less than the same month a year ago despite opening a $4 million sports bar with electronic table games and the city drawing tens of thousands of football and basketball fans.

 

The casino grossed $17.2 million in October after paying winners, a slight increase from the $16.76 million in September. It took in $19.5 million in October 2013 and $20.8 million in October 2012.

 

The Cleveland Cavaliers played their first home game in October and two Cleveland Browns home games were played in October....

 

....Hard Rock Rocksino Northfield Park revenues were $15.4 million in October compared to $14.6 million in September and $16.6 million in August.

 

Revenues had shown a steady increase at the racino, which opened in January. It grossed $220 per day per video lottery terminal.

 

ThiistleDown Racino revenues were $9.99 million, up from the $9.5 million in September. It grossed $12.8 million in October, 2013. The facility grossed $258 a day per video lottery terminal."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/horseshoe_casino_cleveland_in.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Don't know if everyone has seen this particular rendering before - I don't think I have.

 

Found in wkyc's video about nuCLEus:

 

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/07/cleveland--developer-bob-stark-describes-nucleus-project/18666759/

Don't know if everyone has seen this particular rendering before - I don't think I have.

 

Found in wkyc's video about nuCLEus:

 

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/07/cleveland--developer-bob-stark-describes-nucleus-project/18666759/

 

So Bob Stark seems to be going forward with nuCLEus (horrible name) because of the Republicans and LeBron?  If these weren't happening we could just forget about nuCLEus?  Isn't that nice.  Because downtown Cleveland didn't have momentum before they decided to come to town.  I am hearing that from the video correctly, right?

I think what he meant was they got the land before the announcements were made. Trying to do so afterwards would've been much more difficult because the value of those parcels as parking shot up. I think...

Phase 2 will be built!  Or Not.... :-o

 

Investment in Horseshoe Casino Cleveland and other Rock Ohio ventures worthless, investor says

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - A Minnesota gaming company contends that its $21 million investment in Rock Ohio Ventures is worthless, citing disappointing performance by the Horseshoe Casino Cleveland and Rock Ohio's other properties, according to  financial statements.

 

Lakes Entertainment Inc., based in Minnetonka, reported to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission last month that it bases the "value of zero" on an analysis of Rock Ohio's cash flows and working capital as well as talks with managers.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/investment_in_horseshoe_casino.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Phase 2 will be built!  Or Not.... :-o

 

Investment in Horseshoe Casino Cleveland and other Rock Ohio ventures worthless, investor says

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - A Minnesota gaming company contends that its $21 million investment in Rock Ohio Ventures is worthless, citing disappointing performance by the Horseshoe Casino Cleveland and Rock Ohio's other properties, according to  financial statements.

 

Lakes Entertainment Inc., based in Minnetonka, reported to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission last month that it bases the "value of zero" on an analysis of Rock Ohio's cash flows and working capital as well as talks with managers.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/investment_in_horseshoe_casino.html#incart_m-rpt-1

My view has always been that Phase II became unlikely when Thistledown didn't move down to Akron.

 

I'll add this:  if ground is not broken by next spring, it won't be until the GOP convention is over.  They aren't going to have it under construction while it's going on.

I don't understand why anyone would believe that a developer would wait years to start a multi million dollar project  because of a a convention.  It's not like they are going to be building Phase II or any other project ONTOP of the convention center or The Q...

I don't understand why anyone would believe that a developer would wait years to start a multi million dollar project  because of a a convention.  It's not like they are going to be building Phase II or any other project ONTOP of the convention center or The Q...

 

Because there's plenty of uses for vacant or developed land during same, none for a construction site.  In reality, if they don't push to have it ready by then, they don't plan on building it anytime soon.

I almost wish Phase 1 was starting now.  Had it been, I'm sure Higbees would already be in the process/due diligence phase of apartment conversions, with Phase 1 of the Casino going where the "proposed" Phase 2 is. 

 

I lost hope on Phase 2 when the garage was built where it is, and connected by skywalk to phase 1. 

^I was never overly crazy about the Higbee's building being used for the casino, but I never wanted it to be turned to apartments.

 

I'll add this:  if ground is not broken by next spring, it won't be until the GOP convention is over.  They aren't going to have it under construction while it's going on.[/color]

 

I don't know why not.  This isn't some project which would impede the flow of traffic, pedestrian or vehicular.  It is on the outskirts, in a sense, on a lot not currently put to any good use.

I believe the city is going for some sort of construction moratorium (as crazy as that sounds) in areas around the convention facilities, mainly downtown. They want a lot of the big projects buttoned up so downtown looks good for the convention.

I believe the city is going for some sort of construction moratorium (as crazy as that sounds) in areas around the convention facilities, mainly downtown. They want a lot of the big projects buttoned up so downtown looks good for the convention.

 

I've heard that, too, and I suppose I can understand not wanting major road construction to be going on and needing Public Square to be finished.  But wouldn't buildings going up (and particularly several at once) convey that Cleveland is a growing and thriving city?  I thought part of the reason we wanted the RNC was to change the narrative about Cleveland, and a skyscraper (Stark) or massive mixed use development (Casino Phase II) would make a good impression, IMO.

I believe the city is going for some sort of construction moratorium (as crazy as that sounds) in areas around the convention facilities, mainly downtown. They want a lot of the big projects buttoned up so downtown looks good for the convention.

 

That would be common practice for any city hosting an event of this magnitude. I'm not sure everyone realizes what a big deal this, perhaps only the Olympics is bigger. 

 

The space can be used for a lot of things:  parking, media trailers, staging areas, and so on.  Unless it's under construction.

 

In any event, if they were really serious about Phase II, they would want it ready by then.

The 'no orange barrel' goal is being drastically overstated.  The City was contemplating specific projects (the hotel, Public Square, the Malls, the Pedestrian Bridge, etc).  And, no, other cities hosting conventions don't halt ALL construction.  CLT had several buildings/projects underway at the time of the 2012 DNC.  As for space needed, we have plenty of that.  I highly doubt some empty, not easily accessible (at least not anymore) parcel is going to be put to much use.