What's the possibility that the operations at Horseshoe will be consolidated into the new facility, leaving the Higbee Building open to other development? At this point, I don't see it being possible for both facilities to exist, but it could be possible for the one big facility to exist.

Lets wait for the faintest whiff that this project is moving forward before we debate on whether it'll be constructed during the convention. 

Since we love to speculate the potential impacts of various external forces on the fate of Phase 2, this one will surely ignite more speculation....

 

ThistleDown Racino's $70 million expansion to include steakhouse, bar, more slots and parking garage

By Karen Farkas, Northeast Ohio Media Group

on December 12, 2014 at 12:40 PM, updated December 12, 2014 at 5:03 PM

 

NORTH RANDALL, Ohio - ThistleDown Racino's proposed $70 million expansion includes a steakhouse, "signature bar," 250 video lottery terminals and a parking garage.

 

The new facilities were included in a summary of racino activities presented to the Ohio Lottery Commission, which regulates racinos.

 

The restaurant will overlook the race track, the gaming floor will be expanded and a three-level parking garage will have 750 spaces, according to the proposal. It will also add a new employee locker room, offices and improve the roof and heating and air conditioning.

 

Conceptual drawings have been completed. Construction will begin in 2015 and be completed by April 2016.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/thistledown_racinos_70_million.html

^Very glad to hear this, esp since a year or so ago Thistledown's future was in doubt... The N. Randall area really needs T'Down and this expansion is great news, indeed.

Not great news for the downtown casino and phase 2:

 

Bankruptcy possible for Caesars Entertainment Corp., operator of @HorseshoeCLE casino. @Enquirer explores: http://t.co/Y3K8arXtk9 $CZR

That's not shocking. Considering they are closing Tunica, Mississippi's largest casino... http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2014/03/26/harrahs-casino-announces-will-close-tunica/6941597/

 

Check out the aerial (https://goo.gl/maps/mUXb6) and pan around. Tons of closed casinos!

Close the casino and put a department store back in Higbees. :)

Rock Ohio Ventures buy Caesar's 20 percent interest and now owns Horseshoe Casino Cleveland, ThistleDown and other entities

 

Rock Ohio Ventures, along with Rock Ohio Caesars, LLC, the entity that owns the Horseshoe Cleveland and Horseshoe Cincinnati casinos and the ThistleDown racino, announced Thursday it now owns 100 percent of the properties.

 

It entered into an agreement with Caesars Entertainment Corporation and certain of its subsidiaries to redeem a 20 percent minority interest held by one of its subsidiaries, Matt Cullen, CEO of Rock Ohio Ventures and Rock Gaming, said in a news release.

 

As a result, ROV will own 100 percent of the interest in Horseshoe Cleveland, ThistleDown Racino, Horseshoe Cincinnati, the Ritz-Carlton in Cleveland, the Higbee Building and a controlling interest in Turfway Park in Florence, Kentucky, the release said.

 

Caesars' subsidiaries will continue to manage the Horseshoe Cleveland and Cincinnati casinos and the ThistleDown racino, Rock Ohio said.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/casino/index.ssf/2015/02/rock_ohio_ventures_buys_out_ca.html#incart_river

Now this looks like a BFD.

 

Caesars is departing from Cleveland. New branding in store for the Horsehoe Casinos in both Cleveland and Cincinnati

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/02/exclusive-cincinnati-casino-operator-exits.html

Now this looks like a BFD.

 

Caesars is departing from Cleveland. New branding in store for the Horsehoe Casinos in both Cleveland and Cincinnati

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/02/exclusive-cincinnati-casino-operator-exits.html

 

Whoa!  So I take it that it will no longer be named the "Horseshoe Casino?"  Although, I bet a Cleveland "Hard Rock Casino" name would go over well....or is that also the same ownership?

^It's known Caesars was having financial troubles but I did not see that coming...at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Rock Gaming to buy the "Horseshoe" brand from Caesar's than to rebrand all their properties? 

My friends who work the traveling world series of Poker knew "something was up" between Rock and Caesars when Caesars yanked the event from Cleveland last year. 

 

All that tells us was there was some tension in that relationship, not sure "who was right".

 

If there was a bad relationship between the two, I am glad the partnership is ending rather than having it linger in a sort of limbo.

Rock Gaming In http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20151102/NEWS/151109970/rock-gaming-in-caesars-entertainment-out-as-cleveland-casino-manager#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccl-dailynews&utm_campaign=ccl-dailynews-20151102

Wouldn't it make more sense for Rock Gaming to buy the "Horseshoe" brand from Caesar's than to rebrand all their properties?

 

No as the Horseshoe name is on six properties outside of Ohio. It's also a very historic name in the casino industry and worth more than the casinos themselves.

 

The other wrinkle in this is that Caesars is no longer one company. It's actually three different companies that all use the Caesars name and have various ties to one another through Total Rewards marketing among other things. Notably, Horseshoe Baltimore isn't affected even though Gilbert also owns that one. The difference is Horseshoe Baltimore is managed by a different Caesars corporate entity than the Ohio ventures even though they share the same branding. Confused yet?

 

The Caesars corporate hierarchy is in disarray and I'm sure all parties wanted out. With the Caesars bankruptcy and the pieces split up between multiple companies, it no longer made much sense for this partnership to continue. Why split all this money all these different ways? It doesn't make sense. Caesars is under new management and since it is currently split up so many different ways, this was pretty much inevitable.

I don't care who owns the casino downtown, but I truly hope the stupid "Horseshoe" name gets taken out of Cleveland. Its a word that brings "Texas" or the "West" to mind--and is very non-Cleveland.

Some talk about phase 2 from the NEOMG story,

 

Cullen said the so-called "second phase" of the Cleveland casino is still being discussed, but will likely be a multi-purpose development that might include gaming. It would not be developed for a few years, he said.

 

"The market does not allow expansion of gaming in Northeast Ohio right now," he said. "There is not sufficient demand."

 

The development of Public Square and the east bank of the Flats will likely lead to a future development of the Huron Road site, he said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/casino/index.ssf/2015/11/rock_gaming_takes_over_management_of_horseshoe_cleveland_casino_from_caesars_entertainment.html

Now this looks like a BFD.

 

Caesars is departing from Cleveland. New branding in store for the Horsehoe Casinos in both Cleveland and Cincinnati

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/02/exclusive-cincinnati-casino-operator-exits.html

 

Whoa!  So I take it that it will no longer be named the "Horseshoe Casino?"  Although, I bet a Cleveland "Hard Rock Casino" name would go over well....or is that also the same ownership?

 

Hard Rock is a different company and it would make the most sense, but would they do it with the Rocksino here?

I don't care who owns the casino downtown, but I truly hope the stupid "Horseshoe" name gets taken out of Cleveland. Its a word that brings "Texas" or the "West" to mind--and is very non-Cleveland.

 

Agreed,  I hope they brand it with something original and unique to Cleveland, and don't slap on a generic casino chain branding.

I don't care who owns the casino downtown, but I truly hope the stupid "Horseshoe" name gets taken out of Cleveland. Its a word that brings "Texas" or the "West" to mind--and is very non-Cleveland.

 

Right. Cause there are no horses in northeast Ohio.  :roll:

The horseshoe is a symbol of good luck, hence the use of the word Horseshoe in conjunction with a business that is all about luck. Think about it.

^I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?

I don't care who owns the casino downtown, but I truly hope the stupid "Horseshoe" name gets taken out of Cleveland. Its a word that brings "Texas" or the "West" to mind--and is very non-Cleveland.

 

I hear ya. I'm not big on country western image for CLE.  It got pretty dicey for a while with the mechanical bull craze lol.

I don't care who owns the casino downtown, but I truly hope the stupid "Horseshoe" name gets taken out of Cleveland. Its a word that brings "Texas" or the "West" to mind--and is very non-Cleveland.

 

Agreed,  I hope they brand it with something original and unique to Cleveland, and don't slap on a generic casino chain branding.

 

It always felt like a missed opportunity to renovate a beautiful art deco building by laying down yards of horse shoe carpet.

I don't care who owns the casino downtown, but I truly hope the stupid "Horseshoe" name gets taken out of Cleveland. Its a word that brings "Texas" or the "West" to mind--and is very non-Cleveland.

 

Agreed,  I hope they brand it with something original and unique to Cleveland, and don't slap on a generic casino chain branding.

 

It always felt like a missed opportunity to renovate a beautiful art deco building by laying down yards of horse shoe carpet.

Outside of the carpet I believe that the renovation turned out beautifully. The carpet doesn't really bother especially for what the building is getting used for (as well as I don't pay it much attention when walking).

I don't care who owns the casino downtown, but I truly hope the stupid "Horseshoe" name gets taken out of Cleveland. Its a word that brings "Texas" or the "West" to mind--and is very non-Cleveland.

 

Agreed,  I hope they brand it with something original and unique to Cleveland, and don't slap on a generic casino chain branding.

 

It always felt like a missed opportunity to renovate a beautiful art deco building by laying down yards of horse shoe carpet.

Outside of the carpet I believe that the renovation turned out beautifully. The carpet doesn't really bother especially for what the building is getting used for (as well as I don't pay it much attention when walking).

 

Agree. The Horseshoe turned out tasteful for the most part. The full "Ancient Rome" treatment of a Caesars would have been far far worse.

I would like to see the name of the casino's turn into a simple brand name.  Casino Cleveland / Casino Cincinnati/ Racino Thistledown .  European casinos always are just named after the city they are in.  Casino Cleveland at Higbees as a second choice.

 

I would like to see the name of the casino's turn into a simple brand name.  Casino Cleveland / Casino Cincinnati/ Racino Thistledown .  European casinos always are just named after the city they are in.  Casino Cleveland at Higbees as a second choice.

I believe branding is too important in America for that to work. Although it could be a quality casino if it has a "Generic Name" aka one without a Caesars endorsement etc. people will look at it as lower quality casino. They probably will say "it wasn't good enough to have a big name endorse it so why should I go?"

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20151103/NEWS/151109956/real-estate-is-more-intriguing-to-rock-gaming-than-building-a-new

 

Real estate is more intriguing to Rock Gaming than building a new casino

 

Rock Gaming is more focused on pursuing real estate development on the site it purchased on the south side of Huron Road than constructing a new casino there.

 

A new casino is more likely to go in as part of a mixed-use project than go in alone. But don’t hold your breath in either case.

 

That’s the word from Matt Cullen, president and CEO of Rock Gaming, in an interview Monday, Nov. 2, after Rock announced it plans to assume operations in mid-2016 of Horseshoe Casino Cleveland, Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati and Thistledown Racino from Las Vegas-based Caesars Entertainment Operating Co.

 

 

 

I would like to see the name of the casino's turn into a simple brand name.  Casino Cleveland / Casino Cincinnati/ Racino Thistledown .  European casinos always are just named after the city they are in.  Casino Cleveland at Higbees as a second choice.

I believe branding is too important in America for that to work. Although it could be a quality casino if it has a "Generic Name" aka one without a Caesars endorsement etc. people will look at it as lower quality casino. They probably will say "it wasn't good enough to have a big name endorse it so why should I go?"

 

True--and along with it, the frequent players rewards cards, etc.

^^ That wouldn't surprise me. Think of all the riverfront property in play between the lake and Collision Bend. East Bank is gearing up for phase 3. Jacobs prepping plans for the West Bank. FCE (or an affiliate) on Scranton. And Rock gaming at the end.

 

Interestingly, Sherwin Williams owns all of the riverfront property west of the casino phase 2 site to Old River Rd. Property that itself might be worth a fortune some day.

I hope they don't sit on that property forever... This combined with the lack of info on Tower City is driving me crazy!  If Gilbert buys Tower City and revamps the entire thing along with new construction on the Huron Road property (can Neiman Marcus still be built? ;) haha) that would be an amazing development.

So if this property were to be built on, would the new building(s) be built over the rapid tracks or would they be rerouted?

So if this property were to be built on, would the new building(s) be built over the rapid tracks or would they be rerouted?

 

Built over. But the site only covers a small section of the rapid tracks

So if this property were to be built on, would the new building(s) be built over the rapid tracks or would they be rerouted?

 

The original developers of the Terminal Tower Complex (aka Terminal Group) were the Van Sweringen brothers who constructed the original rapid transit and railroad rights of way with rights to build above them, called air rights. It was a very innovative concept in the early 20th century.

I wasn't sure where to put this... but finally something will go into the Casino garage/welcome center building storefront... Now maybe we can fill in the hole where the Stanley was!?

 

"Wahlburgers restaurant coming to downtown Cleveland"

 

http://www.cleveland19.com/story/34040122/wahlburgers-cleveland

 

Still No Plans for Phase 2. http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/rock-gaming-blames-bad-weather-for-december-drop-at-jack-casino-still-no-plans-for-phase-ii?autoplay=true

Gilbert wants Out of the Casino Business. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nba/cavaliers/report-cleveland-cavaliers-owner-dan-gilbert-looking-to-sell-jack-casino-properties/95-591314816?ref=exit-recirc

Gilbert wants Out of the Casino Business. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nba/cavaliers/report-cleveland-cavaliers-owner-dan-gilbert-looking-to-sell-jack-casino-properties/95-591314816?ref=exit-recirc

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-05/billionaire-gilbert-is-said-to-be-looking-to-cash-out-of-casinos

@RuiterWrongFAN

2m2 minutes ago

Look for Dan Gilbert to pursue Detroit Lions should they come up for sale. NFL doesn’t allow owners to have stakes in casinos and divesting them is a critical step

I can’t believe the Ford family would sell the Lions

Not much on cleveland.com yet, but I read the Bloomberg article and Gilbert is also selling the casinos he owns in Cincinnati (Jack) and Detroit (Greektown). 

 

[Of course, this hasn't stopped the cle.commenters from jumping to the conclusion that Gilbert is giving up on Cleveland and downtown is dying.  Stay classy...err, clueless, guys.]

 

Hopefully, he holds onto his nearby properties, which include (IIRC), the Ritz, Tower City mall, and the May Co. building.  With the recent buzz around repurposing that last building, it would seem that Gilbert will remain invested in downtown Cleveland and Detroit.

 

Also, with legalized sports gambling potentially on the horizon in MI and OH's near future, maybe he realizes that the NBA (and NFL, if the Lions rumors are to be believed) would never let him operate a sports book out of Jack or Greektown.  But if he sells to a third-party, he could (indirectly) cash in on the next big thing in American sports with an inflated sale price.

Maybe not the right thread for it, but what exactly is Gilbert's connection to Cleveland? I know he's from Detroit, so it make sense that he's so involved in its redevelopment. But what is the Cleveland connection besides owning the Cavs? Does he just want to be the savior of all the depressed Great Lakes cities or what?

Presque Isle owners interested in Jack. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/e-team/should-dan-gilbert-exit-the-casino-world-hell-likely-find-several-interested-bidders

Maybe not the right thread for it, but what exactly is Gilbert's connection to Cleveland? I know he's from Detroit, so it make sense that he's so involved in its redevelopment. But what is the Cleveland connection besides owning the Cavs? Does he just want to be the savior of all the depressed Great Lakes cities or what?

That's what I've always heard but not sure how far it goes beyond Detroit where he is from (Quicken Loans) and Cleveland after he bought the Cavs when Lebron James was drafted...

Not much on cleveland.com yet, but I read the Bloomberg article and Gilbert is also selling the casinos he owns in Cincinnati (Jack) and Detroit (Greektown). 

 

[Of course, this hasn't stopped the cle.commenters from jumping to the conclusion that Gilbert is giving up on Cleveland and downtown is dying.  Stay classy...err, clueless, guys.]

 

Hopefully, he holds onto his nearby properties, which include (IIRC), the Ritz, Tower City mall, and the May Co. building.  With the recent buzz around repurposing that last building, it would seem that Gilbert will remain invested in downtown Cleveland and Detroit.

 

Also, with legalized sports gambling potentially on the horizon in MI and OH's near future, maybe he realizes that the NBA (and NFL, if the Lions rumors are to be believed) would never let him operate a sports book out of Jack or Greektown.  But if he sells to a third-party, he could (indirectly) cash in on the next big thing in American sports with an inflated sale price.

Your last paragraph is very interesting and never heard anyone bring this up before. For all the reasons you mentioned makes the most sense for selling for me so far.

 

If sold what do others believe are the chances for the Cleveland casino getting an upgrade? If not phase II, any type of upgrade or do you feel the buyer will keep as is? I feel the best chance was with Gilbert that had other stakes with Cleveland than an outside buyer that focuses mostly on gambling nationally or globally sadly.

Right after this news came out, I mentioned that Gilbert might want to buy the Lions but someone else said they doubted the Ford family would sell the team.

Not much on cleveland.com yet, but I read the Bloomberg article and Gilbert is also selling the casinos he owns in Cincinnati (Jack) and Detroit (Greektown). 

 

[Of course, this hasn't stopped the cle.commenters from jumping to the conclusion that Gilbert is giving up on Cleveland and downtown is dying.  Stay classy...err, clueless, guys.]

 

Hopefully, he holds onto his nearby properties, which include (IIRC), the Ritz, Tower City mall, and the May Co. building.  With the recent buzz around repurposing that last building, it would seem that Gilbert will remain invested in downtown Cleveland and Detroit.

 

Also, with legalized sports gambling potentially on the horizon in MI and OH's near future, maybe he realizes that the NBA (and NFL, if the Lions rumors are to be believed) would never let him operate a sports book out of Jack or Greektown.  But if he sells to a third-party, he could (indirectly) cash in on the next big thing in American sports with an inflated sale price.

Your last paragraph is very interesting and never heard anyone bring this up before. For all the reasons you mentioned makes the most sense for selling for me so far.

 

If sold what do others believe are the chances for the Cleveland casino getting an upgrade? If not phase II, any type of upgrade or do you feel the buyer will keep as is? I feel the best chance was with Gilbert that had other stakes with Cleveland than an outside buyer that focuses mostly on gambling nationally or globally sadly.

 

Very unlikely. Casinos aren't doing well overall, and I think they underestimated the competition from other regional casinos that were built soon after the Cleveland one.

Not much on cleveland.com yet, but I read the Bloomberg article and Gilbert is also selling the casinos he owns in Cincinnati (Jack) and Detroit (Greektown). 

 

[Of course, this hasn't stopped the cle.commenters from jumping to the conclusion that Gilbert is giving up on Cleveland and downtown is dying.  Stay classy...err, clueless, guys.]

 

Hopefully, he holds onto his nearby properties, which include (IIRC), the Ritz, Tower City mall, and the May Co. building.  With the recent buzz around repurposing that last building, it would seem that Gilbert will remain invested in downtown Cleveland and Detroit.

 

Also, with legalized sports gambling potentially on the horizon in MI and OH's near future, maybe he realizes that the NBA (and NFL, if the Lions rumors are to be believed) would never let him operate a sports book out of Jack or Greektown.  But if he sells to a third-party, he could (indirectly) cash in on the next big thing in American sports with an inflated sale price.

Your last paragraph is very interesting and never heard anyone bring this up before. For all the reasons you mentioned makes the most sense for selling for me so far.

 

If sold what do others believe are the chances for the Cleveland casino getting an upgrade? If not phase II, any type of upgrade or do you feel the buyer will keep as is? I feel the best chance was with Gilbert that had other stakes with Cleveland than an outside buyer that focuses mostly on gambling nationally or globally sadly.

Very unlikely. Casinos aren't doing well overall, and I think they underestimated the competition from other regional casinos that were built soon after the Cleveland one.

 

Interesting, this just came out:

Ohio casino, racino gambling revenue up 8 percent in August; all 3 in Cleveland area post gains

 

JACK Cleveland Casino had its best August since 2014 when the facility was known as the Horseshoe.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/casino/index.ssf/2018/09/ohio_casino_racino_gambling_re_1.html

Yes, but that comes after quite a long slide for JACK.

Right after this news came out, I mentioned that Gilbert might want to buy the Lions but someone else said they doubted the Ford family would sell the team.

 

Its not likely as Gilbert has been the rumored future owner of the Tigers for a long time. Chris Ilitch has zero interest in baseball while Gilbert has longed to own a team for decades. MLB has very strict rules about owning teams and casinos which is why Marian Ilitch is not considered an owner of the Tigers. She's the majority owner of Motor City Casino and couldn't have any financial stake in the Tigers.

 

Really, this is a good time to sell a casino. Theres been a ton of sales and management changes just over the last couple of years. Once MGM, Penn National and Caesars created REITs, they all went on acquisition sprees. That's created a shakeup inside the gaming industry. Locally, Presque Isle and Hard Rock Rocksino are under new ownership. If an REIT buys out Gilbert, another company will be brought in to run the place. Most likely it will be a company affiliated with the REIT, although thats not the case at Hard Rock.