Jump to content

Cleveland: Downtown: Jack Cleveland Casino - Phase 2

Guest jhonopolis
Guest jhonopolis
in Abandoned Projects

Featured Replies

  • Replies 425
  • Views 35.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Most Popular Posts

  • Boaty McBoatface
    Boaty McBoatface

    As a resident in the Terminal Tower Apartments, I can confirm that there is a fairly large contingent of panhandlers and general miscreants. With that said, as more and more people move into the build

  • marty15
    marty15

    I don’t foresee phase 2 ever happening. 

  • Potamus
    Potamus

    If I remember right, NOT having entertainment was part of Gilbert's promise when he put the casino in that location so it wouldn't compete with local venues.  

Posted Images

They have a very strong interest as a buyer but it kind of worries me how close they own casino's from Cleveland. Wheeling and especially Pittsburgh!

 

So their closeness to Cleveland is a negative?

It would be one less competitor to worry about in a saturated market with no incentive to make the Cleveland casino a complete casino as every city in the region that was allowed to have a casino has except for Cleveland. Cleveland got screwed because Gilbert wanted Cleveland to be the first casino opened in Ohio for competitiveness so he started in phases which seems never to be a good idea in Cleveland. So right now Cleveland is stuck with an incomplete casino that is less competitive even though the area has been lobbying for gambling legalization for decades and end up on the short end of the deal. Cleveland's numbers are still competitive to the rest of the state even though it's incomplete but may end going under which will be a shame

^what do the Dolan's have to do with it?

^what do the Dolan's have to do with it?

LOL, I'm so used to blaming Dolan with the Indians I meant Gilbert. Go Indians in October.

Yes, but that comes after quite a long slide for JACK.

 

Ohio gambling take up 2 percent in first half of 2018

By Jon Chavez  | BLADE BUSINESS WRITER

Published on July 10, 2018

 

The Jack Cleveland Casino, owned by Jack Entertainment, had revenues of $16.4 million last month, an increase of 9.4 percent. For the first half of 2018 the Cleveland property, which had been going through extensive remodeling, had revenues totaling $102.1 million, an increase of 2.6 percent.

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/business/2018/07/10/Ohio-gambling-revenues-up-2-percent-in-first-half-of-2018.html

They have a very strong interest as a buyer but it kind of worries me how close they own casino's from Cleveland. Wheeling and especially Pittsburgh!

 

So their closeness to Cleveland is a negative?

It would be one less competitor to worry about in a saturated market with no incentive to make the Cleveland casino a complete casino as every city in the region that was allowed to have a casino has except for Cleveland. Cleveland got screwed because Gilbert wanted Cleveland to be the first casino opened in Ohio for competitiveness so he started in phases which seems never to be a good idea in Cleveland. So right now Cleveland is stuck with an incomplete casino that is less competitive even though the area has been lobbying for gambling legalization for decades and end up on the short end of the deal. Cleveland's numbers are still competitive to the rest of the state even though it's incomplete but may end going under which will be a shame

 

I am curious as to what you mean when you say "incomplete casino".  What does Cleveland's casino lack that the others have?  Perhaps a full-service restaurant; however the other casinos are essentially islands unto themselves vs. Cleveland's being surrounded by restaurants.  Therefore I doubt that has much of an effect.  If anything, Cleveland lacks square footage in which they could put another 600-800 slot machines to match the other three, yet revenues are comparable and Cleveland absolutely kills it on table games. 

There's no real event space at JACK. At many casinos there is a theater or ballroom venue of some kind that's used for concerts, comedians, boxing, etc.  That's not really needed in Cleveland, with so many downtown entertainment options surrounding the casino, but the main positive to a casino venue from a local's perspective is that casinos often pay fees up-front to different acts, which can help attract shows that wouldn't be willing to come to town otherwise.

There's no real event space at JACK. At many casinos there is a theater or ballroom venue of some kind that's used for concerts, comedians, boxing, etc.  That's not really needed in Cleveland, with so many downtown entertainment options surrounding the casino, but the main positive to a casino venue from a local's perspective is that casinos often pay fees up-front to different acts, which can help attract shows that wouldn't be willing to come to town otherwise.

 

I disagree that we don’t need it. I actually think we do. It doesn’t have to be gigantic but one of the reasons Hard Rock is so successful is their shows. I think that would bring an element downtown that we don’t currently have and it absolutely would lead to even more diverse acts coming here

There's no real event space at JACK. At many casinos there is a theater or ballroom venue of some kind that's used for concerts, comedians, boxing, etc.  That's not really needed in Cleveland, with so many downtown entertainment options surrounding the casino, but the main positive to a casino venue from a local's perspective is that casinos often pay fees up-front to different acts, which can help attract shows that wouldn't be willing to come to town otherwise.

 

They also mess up a market by over-paying acts that wouldn't otherwise be making as much. 

Add in a gondola connection to Ohio City and Scranton Peninsula and i can see phase 2 being a go. Great advertising. Great scenery.

The one thing I think Jack casino misses in downtown is that it is IN a downtown. But it is exactly the same as all the other casinos. I don’t necessarily know what that means, but what about a rooftop gaming level, windows that actually let you see outside, a viewing platform on the second floor overlooking public square. I just feel like they went for a suburban copy casino when it didn’t need to be.

Absolutely agree^^ There are so many things they could do just on a basic level to make the Casino better... the outside is kind of a mess especially Ontario.  Add some trees?  Clean up the sidewalk?  I think this sale COULD end up being a great thing, if an owner with an attention to detail comes in.

Casinos never want you to see outside for the same reason there are clocks in casinos. They don't want you to have any sense of time. They want you to keep gambling until your wallet runs out, not the clock running out.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Casinos never want you to see outside for the same reason there are clocks in casinos. They don't want you to have any sense of time. They want you to keep gambling until your wallet runs out, not the clock running out.

 

They also appear to book artists like Michael MacDonald and Gordon Lightfoot, so you have no sense of what century it is either.

LOL!!

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Kjp—Yes I understand that’s how traditional casinos work. And that’s exactly why it doesn’t matter if you go to the downtown casino or the suburban ones. But that means the downtown casino needs to differentiate itself, and if it is the same suburban casino but smaller, harder to get to, fewer amenities and less parking, then it’s going to lose the market. By billing the downtown casino as a different experience, it can be more successful in the marketplace.

 

Just because casinos traditionally don’t want you to look outside doesn’t mean that’s the right answer for this casino or for casinos going forward.

Ohio gambling take up 2 percent in first half of 2018

By Jon Chavez  | BLADE BUSINESS WRITER

Published on July 10, 2018

 

The Jack Cleveland Casino, owned by Jack Entertainment, had revenues of $16.4 million last month, an increase of 9.4 percent. For the first half of 2018 the Cleveland property, which had been going through extensive remodeling, had revenues totaling $102.1 million, an increase of 2.6 percent.

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/business/2018/07/10/Ohio-gambling-revenues-up-2-percent-in-first-half-of-2018.html

 

 

What extensive remodeling has the Casino done in the first half of 2018??

KjpYes I understand thats how traditional casinos work. And thats exactly why it doesnt matter if you go to the downtown casino or the suburban ones. But that means the downtown casino needs to differentiate itself, and if it is the same suburban casino but smaller, harder to get to, fewer amenities and less parking, then its going to lose the market. By billing the downtown casino as a different experience, it can be more successful in the marketplace.

 

Just because casinos traditionally dont want you to look outside doesnt mean thats the right answer for this casino or for casinos going forward.

 

I certainly agree that the Cleveland casino could better capitalize on its downtown location to further differentiate itself.  However, in regards to losing the market I do not imagine that is likely as the Cleveland casino has a monopoly on full-service casino gambling in the Cleveland area per state law (i.e., the Higbee building and the Phase 2 location on Huron are the only locations in which full-service gambling is allowed).  Sure, one could go to Thistedown or the Rocksino, but those only offer slots (and of course horses).  The appeal of table games for many gamblers will likely ensure that downtown Cleveland Jack casino retains its market share compared to these suburban properties.  Relative to other casinos in Ohio and neighboring states (e.g., Detroit, Pitt, Erie, etc.), I suspect that not many tourists travel to any of these locations strictly for the casinos nor to I expect that given the distance a lot of people have a practical choice between them. 

Ohio gambling take up 2 percent in first half of 2018

By Jon Chavez  | BLADE BUSINESS WRITER

Published on July 10, 2018

 

The Jack Cleveland Casino, owned by Jack Entertainment, had revenues of $16.4 million last month, an increase of 9.4 percent. For the first half of 2018 the Cleveland property, which had been going through extensive remodeling, had revenues totaling $102.1 million, an increase of 2.6 percent.

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/business/2018/07/10/Ohio-gambling-revenues-up-2-percent-in-first-half-of-2018.html

 

 

What extensive remodeling has the Casino done in the first half of 2018??

 

I was wondering the same thing.  The last time I was in there in July I noticed they had rearranged some tables and slot machines and added some live action dealer stage thing, but otherwise it looked the same to me.

Kjp—Yes I understand that’s how traditional casinos work. And that’s exactly why it doesn’t matter if you go to the downtown casino or the suburban ones. But that means the downtown casino needs to differentiate itself, and if it is the same suburban casino but smaller, harder to get to, fewer amenities and less parking, then it’s going to lose the market. By billing the downtown casino as a different experience, it can be more successful in the marketplace.

 

Just because casinos traditionally don’t want you to look outside doesn’t mean that’s the right answer for this casino or for casinos going forward.

 

I think it could offer amenities and connectivity that are unique to the downtown location. But a casino is overly internalized, including food and retail. Tower City retail/restaurant tenants were hopeful that the new casino would bring more foot traffic to them. Instead the opposite occurred.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

    •
    • Like 1

    I understand the concept of visually disconnecting gamblers from the outside world but could you imagine playing table games with the backdrop of Euclid Ave? An ultra-classy, cosmopolitan concept with a city back-drop, that might be a draw unto itself, no. I have been to One other Casino other than Cleveland. Would this be such an adventurous new concept? With all the saturation you have now, the old “don’t let them see out” might be a hold-out from the old school casino play book at this point, at least for casinos in interesting locations.

     

    Lots of ideas going on in my head right now. Is anyone currently using the top floor of Higbee? What's the view like facing east, looking through those large windows on the top floor?  Anyone have some photos archived??  I can't remember if I have ever been up there (what floor was Mr Jingeling on?).

     

     

     

    I gamble once, maybe every 5 years, so I have no idea about this stuff. Just thought it was an interesting idea and discussion.

    higTop.jpg.e04e95ba13a418c79850145b4b27d212.jpg

    I know Key Bank has 3 of the upper floors in the building.  Not sure exactly which floors.  But I don't think it's the top floor.  Not sure who is on that floor??

    I know Key Bank has 3 of the upper floors in the building.  Not sure exactly which floors.  But I don't think it's the top floor.  Not sure who is on that floor??

     

    Quicken loans is there on one or two upper floors

    • 1 year later...

    Are you kidding...

     

    JACK CASINO PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE

     Return to Case List | Start Over | Print Report  (PDF format)

    Project Information

    Downtown/Flats Case #  DF 2019-070

    Address:Jack Casino / May Company Garage

    Company:Jack Entertainment

    Architect:Nelson

    Description:

    The proposed construction of a new pedestrian bridge over Ontario Street.

     

    edit: mods, please move if appropriate

    Edited by CbusTransit

    WTF?? That's getting out of hand.

    "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

    Omg really? To that awful garage? They need to tear it down and put a building there, not build another bridge to it!  Continuing the quest to make Ontario the ugliest street downtown. 

    • Like 2

    Are we talking about the may co bridge, where Tilted Kilt restaurant was on the ground floor?

    @CbusTransit Where was that posted at. Looks like a Design Review agenda item, but I don't see any agendas posted. 

    Casinos can be such blood sucking parasites to the urban core if you let them get their way

    19 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

    Omg really? To that awful garage? They need to tear it down and put a building there, not build another bridge to it!  Continuing the quest to make Ontario the ugliest street downtown. 

    Exactly. First tear down that garage, and put up a new building,. Then maybe we can talk about a bridge...

    Unfortunately that has turned out to be a less than ideal venue and location for the casino.

    ^ couldn't disagree more. It resulted in a beautifully restored historic building, over 10 years ago when nothing was being restored. I have no problem with the location. And I'll definitely take it over those horrible stucco looking buildings in cincy and cbust.

    • Like 3

    Do you go to it?  Have you spent any time inside and outside?

    Edited by Frmr CLEder

    21 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

    Do you go to it?

    What do gamblers desire that they can't get at the Higbee location?   In what ways is it "less than ideal?"
    Whenever I go to The Jack on Public Square, I see lots of people gambling. and to my mind it compares favorably with my experience at the MGM casino outside of Washington, DC.  The Higbee Casino feels more glamorous and less depressing to me than the one in DC, which feels cold and remote by comparison.

     

    I'm no hardcore gambler, but I enjoy poker, blackjack and craps.  I can enjoy all of these at The Jack.  So what's wrong?

    Edited by ExPatClevGuy
    Grammar, clarity, & punctuation

    • Like 1

    ^It was the direct cause of a substantial and structurally sound historic building, as well as a second, even more historic building in very lousy condition. It gave us one, and now maybe a second hideous sky bridge. However you fee about the casino, it certainly required some pretty icky compromises.

     

     

    The interior was very nicely done. My family were patrons of Higbees for decades and they did a great job of reproducing it's original elegance.  BTW, Mr. Jingeling was Halle's 7th Floor.

     

    The exterior however is another story. On PS and Prospect Ave sides, there are panhandlers, sidewalk is littered with cigarette butts and the Ontario side consists of a wall of blocked out windows.

     

    The existing bridge enables casino goers to bypass the streets. A second bridge will do the same, but will increase the darkness that is inherent in that location.

    Edited by Frmr CLEder

    If they’re gonna do this, I hope the city makes them build it over Prospect and back to their valet building, which would make the most sense IMO. As far as the casino, I think it was nicely done. What it’s missing, is any entertainment venue/options. I thought when Gilbert bought The Avenue that would be part of it. Thought it would’ve made an incredible Cleveland Live venue, ala Louisville’s 4th Street Live. 

    • Like 2
    5 minutes ago, marty15 said:

    If they’re gonna do this, I hope the city makes them build it over Prospect and back to their valet building, which would make the most sense IMO. As far as the casino, I think it was nicely done. What it’s missing, is any entertainment venue/options. I thought when Gilbert bought The Avenue that would be part of it. Thought it would’ve made an incredible Cleveland Live venue, ala Louisville’s 4th Street Live. 

    I agree with what you said about the missing entertainment options. That’s a huge missing link. Beyond that though, I like the casino. I prefer the downtown casino over Thistledown or MGM

    Harrah's - NOLA is downtown, with limited entertainment options within its immediate vicinity.  The Warehouse District or E. 4th is as close to Jack as Harrah's is to Bourbon St.

    1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

    Do you go to it?  Have you spent any time inside and outside?

    Panhandlers, in a big city? Say it's not true.

    I go about a dozen times a year and bring friends people from out of town, mostly just to people watch , and take in the experience. I don't disagree with the condition of Ontario I'm talking about the higbee building itself. Ontario from Carnegie to Public Square needs a streetscape upgrade, no question. The maintenance of the street/sidewalks is the city's responsibility and they do a poor job there and a lot of places.

    1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

    I agree with what you said about the missing entertainment options. That’s a huge missing link. Beyond that though, I like the casino. I prefer the downtown casino over Thistledown or MGM

    If I remember right, NOT having entertainment was part of Gilbert's promise when he put the casino in that location so it wouldn't compete with local venues.  

    • Like 4
    3 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

    The interior was very nicely done. My family were patrons of Higbees for decades and they did a great job of reproducing it's original elegance.  BTW, Mr. Jingeling was Halle's 7th Floor.

     

    The exterior however is another story. On PS and Prospect Ave sides, there are panhandlers, sidewalk is littered with cigarette butts and the Ontario side consists of a wall of blocked out windows.

     

    The existing bridge enables casino goers to bypass the streets. A second bridge will do the same, but will increase the darkness that is inherent in that location.

     

    All those problems are there because of the casino.  They made a crap environment, now they want their patrons to be able to bypass it.

    • Like 2

    I commented on this before but for some reason Ontario on this stretch seems like the dirtiest street downtown.  I don't get it because the DCA does a great job but somehow the area surrounding the Casino is filthy.

    • Like 2

    I think the challenge with that part of Ontario (Prospect too) is that for most of the day, it is in the shadows of the Terminal Tower Complex. It makes the street dark and with the Casino, the Casino bridge, lack of planters, bus hubs and limited storefronts, its not an attractive stretch.

    • Like 3

    As a resident in the Terminal Tower Apartments, I can confirm that there is a fairly large contingent of panhandlers and general miscreants. With that said, as more and more people move into the building, there has been an increase in 24 hour security, as well as a greater care for the state of our front door. In my experience, the biggest thing that moves the panhandlers to the tower city front door has a lot to do with the scaffolding in front of the May Company building, as well as the more open and “cleaned up” version of public square. I pass these people every day/night and they are (mostly) harmless and no better or worse than what I dealt with buying groceries while living in NYC. As a resident, I would also much rather have a living/breathing business like the casino than a giant empty building attached to one of the most beautiful buildings in the world ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. The street and the square are always well-lit, and 24 hour foot traffic does help a ton in a feeling of general safety even while having to deal with a few bothersome people. I could also just be naive or used to the presence of that crowd after living in NYC and Austin. Walking home under the I-35 overpass between downtown and east Austin on 6th street was way scarier, even in the middle of the day, than anything I have to deal with in front of the casino. 

    • Like 12

    So getting back to Phase II, would the proposed location for that Phase have been an improvement over what currently exists?

     

    Also a lot of the casino executives have bailed, going over to Bedrock.  Is the casino going up for sale like some of the others?

    Edited by Frmr CLEder

    17 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

    I think the challenge with that part of Ontario (Prospect too) is that for most of the day, it is in the shadows of the Terminal Tower Complex. It makes the street dark and with the Casino, the Casino bridge, lack of planters, bus hubs and limited storefronts, its not an attractive stretch.

     

    The only thing missing is a gentleman's club

    • Haha 1

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    Go to topic listing

    Recently Browsing 0

    • No registered users viewing this page.