I don't think we can realistically accept that moving to another location, panhandlers and litter will not immediately appear on the sidewalks outside an "ideal" phase II.

Gilbert should've focused on developing the surrounding area as well instead of a sole casino. 

 

Casinos in a vacuum are pointless to the urban core. Most people who go will use the parking garage, use the skywalk to cross over to the casino, blow a few hundred dollars on the penny slots and drive home. 

 

The area around the casino needs more residents/more entertainment options. All of this in the long run would have given more pedestrian traffic around the casino, and would have resulted in more profits for the casino as well.

 

Isn't that exactly what he's doing with the May Co building?

29 minutes ago, troeros said:

Gilbert should've focused on developing the surrounding area as well instead of a sole casino. 

 

Casinos in a vacuum are pointless to the urban core. Most people who go will use the parking garage, use the skywalk to cross over to the casino, blow a few hundred dollars on the penny slots and drive home. 

 

The area around the casino needs more residents/more entertainment options. All of this in the long run would have given more pedestrian traffic around the casino, and would have resulted in more profits for the casino as well.

 

See May Co, RMFH, and Tower city to be done

Edited September 25, 20195 yr by WindyBuckeye

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

So getting back to Phase II, would the proposed location for that Phase have been an improvement over what currently exists?

 

Not sure I understand the question. Do you mean "what currently exists" at the Phase II site? Or would a casino at the Phase II site be better than the Higbees location?

Edited September 25, 20195 yr by surfohio

I don’t foresee phase 2 ever happening. 

1 minute ago, marty15 said:

I don’t foresee phase 2 ever happening. 

Not in the original form

16 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Not in the original form

Not ever. Gilbert has too much $$$ in the Higbee bldg. Demand doesn’t justify any type of expansion.  Maybe if he sells to a new ambitious owner at some point.

29 minutes ago, surfohio said:

would a casino at the Phase II site be better than the Higbees location?

...assuming the appropriate location.

1 hour ago, marty15 said:

I don’t foresee phase 2 ever happening. 

Agreed. Despite all of the promises, renderings and hype to obtain approvals in the first place, I don't see a Phase II ever being completed by Gilbert. They're already pulling back by:

1. Buying out Caesars

2. Selling their assets in other cities and

3. Now Jack executives are jumping ship, moving over to Bedrock

Edited September 25, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

In 5-10 years, IF SHW builts a new HQ TOWER Downtown and then the LANDMARK buildings are converted into apartments, retail, and parking.....

 

THEN the PHASE TWO AREA will most likely be developed into offices, apartments, retail, entertainment, and maybe some small additional Casino space IF there is enough demand.

 

Because be then there will be very few class B & C Office buildings to convert into apartments.

 

And just think about the GREAT VIEWS of an apartment along the river!!

Edited September 25, 20195 yr by Larry1962

I seriously doubt that. 

1 hour ago, Larry1962 said:

In 5-10 years, IF SHW builts a new HQ TOWER Downtown and then the LANDMARK buildings are converted into apartments, retail, and parking.....

 

THEN the PHASE TWO AREA will most likely be developed into offices, apartments, retail, entertainment, and maybe some small additional Casino space IF there is enough demand.

 

Because be then there will be very few class B & C Office buildings to convert into apartments.

 

And just think about the GREAT VIEWS of an apartment along the river!!

I fully expect Phase II to start construction  as soon as Nucleus, Pesht, The Progressive Tower and the Ameritrust tower wrap up their builds 

This project will never happen.

 

Jack's only remaining assets are in Cleveland; they sold Detroit and Cincy assets and now multiple Jack senior executives are moving to Bedrock. I suspect they may be on to something and everything that has recently occurred would tend to indicate a sale is imminent.

 

https://www.casino.org/news/jack-entertainment-execs-taking-roles-in-sister-development-company

its hard to say what is happening. With Rocket Fieldhouse he just spent top dollar to be the dominant arena/venue in this part of the US.  

   Do they sell off Thistledown Jack and refocus on finally doing phase 2 right next to the Rocket Fieldhouse? There would be synergies of the parking, hotel, and casino visitors with post and pre game and performances at the Rock. 

   I’m thinking he probably wants the control of how the built environment looks and interacts with the updated arena.  So why not build a glassy casino across the street like they originally planned?

Edited September 27, 20195 yr by audidave

38 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

This project will never happen.

 

Jack's only remaining assets are in Cleveland; they sold Detroit and Cincy assets and now multiple Jack senior executives are moving to Bedrock. I suspect they may be on to something and everything that has recently occurred would tend to indicate a sale is imminent.

 

https://www.casino.org/news/jack-entertainment-execs-taking-roles-in-sister-development-company

 

 

They have said repeatedly that they are NOT selling their Cleveland casino. It seems Gilbert wants to hang on to it long term for whatever reason. If he wanted to sell it now would Definitely be the time tho with the market so strong, he got 745 million from Hard Rock for Cincinnati.

I'm concerned that the executives are bailing to go to Bedrock. Sounds like they want to stay with Gilbert but not the casino.

I suspect Gilbert is no longer functional. Since his stroke, he's been invisible. He used to be very active on Twitter. But Gilbert didn't tweet a word when Fred McLeod died.

Second Pedestrian Bridge Update. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/originals/jack-casino-cleveland-looks-to-add-second-pedestrian-bridge-over-ontario-street

I am in favor of this second pedestrian bridge, with the one stipulation that Rock Gaming first build a time machine, go back  and decide NOT to demolish the Columbia Building and Stanley Bock for the dont-call-it-a-garage Welcome Center

 

Dan Gilbert has sold his controlling interest in JACK Cleveland (both downtown casino and the racetrack) to Matt Cullen.  It appears Gilbert maintains a minority stake, but Cullen is the majority owner and operator.  It also appears that the Casino will be reverting back to Horseshoe Cleveland.

Edited July 3, 20204 yr by Kavok

I'd rather see it changed to Hard Rock.

I hated the name "Jack Casino" but think its far superior that than the stupid "Horseshoe Casino" which sounds like some kindof place you'd see in Texas.

 

Regarding the sale to Matt Cullen---I don't know who that is. So is this a good thing or bad thing for the city? Will Phase 2 now happen or be scrapped?

1 hour ago, Pugu said:

I hated the name "Jack Casino" but think its far superior that than the stupid "Horseshoe Casino" which sounds like some kindof place you'd see in Texas.

 

Regarding the sale to Matt Cullen---I don't know who that is. So is this a good thing or bad thing for the city? Will Phase 2 now happen or be scrapped?

Unsure what it could mean for Phase 2.  Matt Cullen, among other things, spent the earlier part of his career with General Motors and convinced GM leadership to move their headquarters to Downtown Detroit in the Renaissance Center. He later oversaw GMs development of the Detroit Riverwalk.

 

From there, he worked for Dan Gilbert, most recently serving as the CEO of Gilberts real estate and development arm (Bedrock).  That all being said, though he has held several high profile leadership and CEO type positions, Cullen has always worked under someone.  So it remains to be seen what type of decisions he will make, and how he will choose to own and operate the Cleveland Casino without having to answer to anyone.  

Edited July 3, 20204 yr by Kavok

On 7/3/2020 at 7:20 PM, Kavok said:

Unsure what it could mean for Phase 2.  Matt Cullen, among other things, spent the earlier part of his career with General Motors and convinced GM leadership to move their headquarters to Downtown Detroit in the Renaissance Center. He later oversaw GMs development of the Detroit Riverwalk.

 

From there, he worked for Dan Gilbert, most recently serving as the CEO of Gilberts real estate and development arm (Bedrock).  That all being said, though he has held several high profile leadership and CEO type positions, Cullen has always worked under someone.  So it remains to be seen what type of decisions he will make, and how he will choose to own and operate the Cleveland Casino without having to answer to anyone.  

Matt was also the CEO of Rock Gaming. He helped lead the campaign to get the casinos passed and developed them.He’s always been a minority investor and has a very high profile in Detroit. He and Gilbert are basically switching roles while Matt is also leaving Gilbert’s Bedrock firm to focus on the casinos. Bedrock’s COO also left to join Cullen in running the casinos. 

8 hours ago, musapaggo said:

That's a great plan

??