August 9, 201212 yr NYC is where I was moving...Cleveland is where I decided on. I had neither family nor a job in either location when I made the decision. I love the arts, water, and good neighborhoods. Those were my criteria for choosing where I wanted to live (and snow). Cleveland won out due to price and access to outdoor activities. There are very few other places I would choose to live, Natininja, and I've lived all over the country. My point was all about MTS's taste and not about NYC or Cleveland. [*]Madrid [*]Panama City [*]Rio [*]San Juan [*]Milan [*]St. Barts NYC and Cleveland are odd choices to reside for someone whose ideals are illustrated by that list. I myself would take NYC and Cleveland over all of those, Madrid possibly being an exception. But my preferences or opinions on cities were not what I was expressing.
August 9, 201212 yr If I was ever to leave Cleveland, it would probably not be to anywhere in the United States.
August 10, 201212 yr If I could live anywhere in the world, I'd want to live in a small university city in Holland... maybe Utrecht, but I'm thinking smaller like Twente, Nijmegen, Maastricht, etc. Lots of good times/memories in Maastricht, so probably there. If Interpol was after me and I couldn't leave the U.S., I think I'd want to settle down somewhere in New England. Burlington, Nashua, Portland ME, Cape Cod, etc..maybe somewhere within transit commuting distance of Boston.
August 10, 201212 yr No Ohio cities having bikeshare is insane, for a pretty urban state. Even OKC and San Antonio have embraced bikeshare. Cincinnati is currently doing a feasibility study. It seems likely to happen. The question is how soon. The hills kind of limit the area in which it is feasible, I believe. Too much one-way flow would be problematic. I agree..Cincy seems like the city that would look into it first, but I think it would be most successful in Cleveland which is completely flat (almost). Can't speak for Cbus, but the hills in Cincy are impressive, and I'd have to acclimate to bicycling up those. Bikeshare is a model that works best for casual ridership, largely folks who don't want the burden of owning a bike but want to give it a try, or know they want it for a few trips a week, etc. If people have developed the lower body strength needed to bike a LOT in such a hilly city they probably own several bikes already. For instance, I know that hilliness has been one reason for hesitancy on the part of Tulsa to add more stations away from the Arkansas River trails in that city. Some cities are able to develop a bicycle culture in spite of topography though. I am a huge fan of bikeshare - I initiated a study period that is wrapping up in Stillwater, OK (got a campus ballot measure passed by 85%) and toured lots of bikeshare systems across the country. I don't know if there is such a thing as "bikeshare experts" but I certainly learned a lot about the logistics...
August 10, 201212 yr jjames0408, I grew up in Cleveland and now live in Cincinnati -- both of these cities have their pros and cons, but I think that Cleveland wins out on access to outdoor activities. In particular, there is no good skiiing anywhere close to Cincinnati whereas within 5 hours drive of Cleveland there are many, many choices. Couple that with easy access to the Lakes & islands, Canada, etc etc..the list just goes on. Glad to hear you're happy there. I'm not so sure I agree with that. Cincinnati has Red River Gorge in its back yard, which is an awesome place for hiking/backpacking. The Smoky Mountains are also fairly close to Cincy (compared to Cleveland), and Lakes Cumberland and Norris are large, warm lakes that are great for skiing, boating, tubing, etc. I guess Cleveland might have better access to skiiking, but that might be splitting hairs. Snowshoe in WVA is decent, and not too far from Cincy, but for real skiing, Utah/Colorado or (to a lesser extent) New England are the only places in the US. Lake Erie is a great resource, but I've always gotten the impression that it was not the best lake for water activities due to pollution and lack of lake oriented development on the shore. Compare whatever Ohio has on Lake Erie with the awesome little lakeside towns in Northern Michigan, and there's really no contest. Put in Bay seems trashy and cheap, IMO.
August 10, 201212 yr Don't forget Cleveland also has the Cuyahoga Valley National Park area. The lake right downtown is more polluted than when you venture 15- 20 miles east or west and the condition of the beaches right in Cleveland is terrible. That said nothing beats being able to sit and look out for miles and miles over the water or being able to watch the sun set over the water. That's one of the down sides if I was going to move to DC or Philly, no huge expanse of water just the river, though I guess the Ocean is about an hour away.
August 10, 201212 yr Lake Erie is a great resource, but I've always gotten the impression that it was not the best lake for water activities due to pollution and lack of lake oriented development on the shore. Compare whatever Ohio has on Lake Erie with the awesome little lakeside towns in Northern Michigan, and there's really no contest. Put in Bay seems trashy and cheap, IMO. The biggest problem pollution-wise with Lake Erie are the algae blooms. But it's not everywhere. And I've swam in plenty of ponds that had lots of algae. The algae blooms come and go, and usually aren't near shore. It's a pretty big lake. And there's plenty of lakeside parks, boat rentals, dinner cruises etc along the south shore of Lake Erie. People bitch that Cleveland doesn't have enough lakeside access, but when friends from Detroit visit, they marvel at Cleveland's lakeside parks. So it's probably a matter of perception. Don't let impressions by others shape yours. See for yourself. Also, I know its fun for some to knock the Cuyahoga Valley "National Park" but its worth experiencing. I think it's one of the most beautiful places to visit in the fall. Rent a bike at either Peninsula (Century Cycle, next to train station http://centurycycles.com/articles/bike-aboard-on-the-cuyahoga-valley-scenic-railroad-pg543.htm) or at Akron Northside (Akron Bike Center, top of the steps from train station http://www.akronracks.com/bikes.html) and ride north which is downhill. Then return the bike by taking the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad south to where you came from for only $3 (was $2) using the Bike Aboard car. http://www.cvsr.com/ http://www.conservancyforcvnp.org/_CE/pagecontent/Images/Partner%20Organizations%20Photos/train_fall_rt82tomjones.JPG The Emerald Necklace is often under-appreciated by people who have lived in Greater Cleveland all their lives... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 11, 201212 yr jjames0408, I grew up in Cleveland and now live in Cincinnati -- both of these cities have their pros and cons, but I think that Cleveland wins out on access to outdoor activities. In particular, there is no good skiiing anywhere close to Cincinnati whereas within 5 hours drive of Cleveland there are many, many choices. Couple that with easy access to the Lakes & islands, Canada, etc etc..the list just goes on. Glad to hear you're happy there. I'm not so sure I agree with that. Cincinnati has Red River Gorge in its back yard, which is an awesome place for hiking/backpacking. The Smoky Mountains are also fairly close to Cincy (compared to Cleveland), and Lakes Cumberland and Norris are large, warm lakes that are great for skiing, boating, tubing, etc. I guess Cleveland might have better access to skiiking, but that might be splitting hairs. Snowshoe in WVA is decent, and not too far from Cincy, but for real skiing, Utah/Colorado or (to a lesser extent) New England are the only places in the US. Lake Erie is a great resource, but I've always gotten the impression that it was not the best lake for water activities due to pollution and lack of lake oriented development on the shore. Compare whatever Ohio has on Lake Erie with the awesome little lakeside towns in Northern Michigan, and there's really no contest. Put in Bay seems trashy and cheap, IMO. ^ well in that case you have gotten the wrong impression from somewhere. there are plenty of family oriented summer cottage towns all along the lake outside of the urban areas that are similar to what n. michigan offers. does erie have sleeping bear dunes? no. does it have the oceanfront 'stacks' that the pac nw has? no either. but at the same time does n. mich have cedar point? again no. different places - se la vie. also, even tho we can all agree pib is what it is, thats exactly why clevelanders take summer homes in kellys and pelee islands, which my family did for years. and as for your first resource, very nice but not unique to cinci vs cle as cle has the same. i would not call the cle version unique either as the parks propaganda below does, but its equally very nice with the bonus that you can ski right near there (and yes ive been to both of these 'gorgeous' ohio gorges!): Located in Bedford, Bedford Heights, Oakwood, Valley View and Walton Hills, Bedford Reservation gives the appearance of a continuous forest of large trees and challenging terrain, which apparently discouraged early logging operations. The reservation offers trails and picnic areas, and includes Shawnee Hills Golf Course as one of its attractions. Flowing through Bedford Reservation is Tinkers Creek, named for a member of Moses Cleveland's surveying party. The stream drops a dramatic 220 feet over a course of two miles and has cut a steep, walled gorge. The gorge, declared a National Natural Landmark, is a unique area with numerous tree, shrub and flower species. The Tinkers Creek Gorge Scenic Overlook on Gorge Parkway offers a spectacular vista particularly in the fall. ;)
August 11, 201212 yr Not trying to say that Cleveland doesn't have a ton of cool natural surroundings! I know about Cuyahoga Natl Park (thanks to MayDay's photo threads) and the beautiful city and regional parks in NE Ohio. I was just trying to say that I don't think that Cleveland has any clear advantage when it comes to access to nature compared to Cincinnati. Btw, mrnyc, Red River Gorge is actually in Kentucky, and is pretty unique in its offerings for this part of the country. The rock climbing and hiking offered in the Gorge (which is actually a subsection of the Daneil Boone Natl Forest) is a real destination. Also can't forget about Mamoth Cave, which is also close! http://www.redrivergorge.com/
August 11, 201212 yr I think the people that live near the islands really "get" Lake Erie and the whole lakeside living thing. The cottages for rent, etc. One of my good friends is the fire chief on one of the islands (though he covers all of them when necessary) and he is CONSTANTLY posting pictures and talking about "lake life" and how great it is, jet skiing, barbecuing by the water, the close community, etc. It sounds like Mayberry, but with water access. I plan to take our family there for vacation next year instead of going around to the other side in Canada like we did this year. Too many advantages to staying stateside and closer to home.
August 11, 201212 yr ^ yes the lakeside cottage world is a lot like mayberry, its summer family fun -- in small doses lol! definately plan ahead and go for it one summer. many are not very expensive, but popular areas fill up fast. edale - yeah now i see i was thinking of clifton and ceasar gorges - had to look that up. closer to dayton i suppose. not sure of the names of things like that down there in se oh, but indeed they are just as nice as in ne oh. ive been to mammoth cave in ky too, i went to school near there briefly, that one is definately well known. for sure it is nice to be near that and other ky/wv/in offerings as it is to be near the open water and canada in ne ohio.
August 12, 201212 yr HTH http://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-affordable-places-retire-europe-210723144.html FWIW, I think Romania comes in even cheaper.
August 13, 201212 yr jjames0408, I grew up in Cleveland and now live in Cincinnati -- both of these cities have their pros and cons, but I think that Cleveland wins out on access to outdoor activities. In particular, there is no good skiiing anywhere close to Cincinnati whereas within 5 hours drive of Cleveland there are many, many choices. Couple that with easy access to the Lakes & islands, Canada, etc etc..the list just goes on. Glad to hear you're happy there. I'm not so sure I agree with that. Cincinnati has Red River Gorge in its back yard, which is an awesome place for hiking/backpacking. The Smoky Mountains are also fairly close to Cincy (compared to Cleveland), and Lakes Cumberland and Norris are large, warm lakes that are great for skiing, boating, tubing, etc. I guess Cleveland might have better access to skiiking, but that might be splitting hairs. Snowshoe in WVA is decent, and not too far from Cincy, but for real skiing, Utah/Colorado or (to a lesser extent) New England are the only places in the US. Lake Erie is a great resource, but I've always gotten the impression that it was not the best lake for water activities due to pollution and lack of lake oriented development on the shore. Compare whatever Ohio has on Lake Erie with the awesome little lakeside towns in Northern Michigan, and there's really no contest. Put in Bay seems trashy and cheap, IMO. ^ well in that case you have gotten the wrong impression from somewhere. there are plenty of family oriented summer cottage towns all along the lake outside of the urban areas that are similar to what n. michigan offers. does erie have sleeping bear dunes? no. does it have the oceanfront 'stacks' that the pac nw has? no either. but at the same time does n. mich have cedar point? again no. different places - se la vie. also, even tho we can all agree pib is what it is, thats exactly why clevelanders take summer homes in kellys and pelee islands, which my family did for years. I removed the part about the gourges as I am more going to respond to the comment about PIB, islands, etc. PIB, in recent years at least, does not seem nearly as trashy as it used to. Ohh, that element is still there and you can definitely find if you are looking for it but there are more bars and winery's that attract a different crowd. You just have to go off the main strip a little bit. Still I wouldn't exactly say that it is a family weekend place. One great thing about the Islands of Ohio is that you really can find exactly the island you are looking for depending on what you want to do. Want an entertainment/party hotspot - PIB/South Bass Island. More laid back with a cottage and resort feel - Middle Bass Island. Family Friendly Island activities from Camping/Hiking/Biking to festivals and street fairs - Kelley's Island. Also, the shores of Marblehead and Catawba also have a lot going on. Growing up in Cincinnati I never even knew that these places existed. To me then, if I were expecting to find a resort/beach town I would have been looking more in NC/SC/Savannah area. Ohio really has a lot, you just may have to look harder for it as there isn't nearly as much publicity as some other places. Ok, now to keep this on topic. If I were to move away from Ohio it would probably be to Denver. I love to ski and would love to live in a true mountain town that has a ski resort; a real town like Telluride or even Aspen just not something like Vail, which is the Disney World of ski towns. But those are so d@mn far from civilazation for the most part that I don't know if I would enjoy it as much. Although Telluride is an amazing place, summer or winter.
August 13, 201212 yr ^ Denver is actually sunnier than even San Diego, I was floored to learn this. In Ohio it's not the cold that gets to me, it's the dreary lack of sun we're prone to experience. I wouldn't even mind say two months of Icelandic style darkness; it's the five month stretches we sometimes get that are really tough to get through.
August 13, 201212 yr jjames0408, I grew up in Cleveland and now live in Cincinnati -- both of these cities have their pros and cons, but I think that Cleveland wins out on access to outdoor activities. In particular, there is no good skiiing anywhere close to Cincinnati whereas within 5 hours drive of Cleveland there are many, many choices. Couple that with easy access to the Lakes & islands, Canada, etc etc..the list just goes on. Glad to hear you're happy there. I'm not so sure I agree with that. Cincinnati has Red River Gorge in its back yard, which is an awesome place for hiking/backpacking. The Smoky Mountains are also fairly close to Cincy (compared to Cleveland), and Lakes Cumberland and Norris are large, warm lakes that are great for skiing, boating, tubing, etc. I guess Cleveland might have better access to skiiking, but that might be splitting hairs. Snowshoe in WVA is decent, and not too far from Cincy, but for real skiing, Utah/Colorado or (to a lesser extent) New England are the only places in the US. Lake Erie is a great resource, but I've always gotten the impression that it was not the best lake for water activities due to pollution and lack of lake oriented development on the shore. Compare whatever Ohio has on Lake Erie with the awesome little lakeside towns in Northern Michigan, and there's really no contest. Put in Bay seems trashy and cheap, IMO. ^ well in that case you have gotten the wrong impression from somewhere. there are plenty of family oriented summer cottage towns all along the lake outside of the urban areas that are similar to what n. michigan offers. does erie have sleeping bear dunes? no. does it have the oceanfront 'stacks' that the pac nw has? no either. but at the same time does n. mich have cedar point? again no. different places - se la vie. also, even tho we can all agree pib is what it is, thats exactly why clevelanders take summer homes in kellys and pelee islands, which my family did for years. I removed the part about the gourges as I am more going to respond to the comment about PIB, islands, etc. PIB, in recent years at least, does not seem nearly as trashy as it used to. Ohh, that element is still there and you can definitely find if you are looking for it but there are more bars and winery's that attract a different crowd. You just have to go off the main strip a little bit. Still I wouldn't exactly say that it is a family weekend place. One great thing about the Islands of Ohio is that you really can find exactly the island you are looking for depending on what you want to do. Want an entertainment/party hotspot - PIB/South Bass Island. More laid back with a cottage and resort feel - Middle Bass Island. Family Friendly Island activities from Camping/Hiking/Biking to festivals and street fairs - Kelley's Island. Also, the shores of Marblehead and Catawba also have a lot going on. The Lake Erie Islands ares Ohio's unknown treasure, although it seems more people know about it given how much it's grown the last decade or so. Anyway, my family has a place on PIB so I grew up spending summers there and still go up frequently now that I have a kid of my own. Obviously what I do on the Island has changed since I've had a kid, but that's pretty much how it goes anywhere.
August 13, 201212 yr back to the 'if you could' relocation game, i'll play - for me, at the moment i guess: usa - outside of ohio big - philly; baltimore or msp med - wilmington, nc; providence, ri or out west maybe around monterey bay? small - arcata, ca, area or oregon coast maybe? places of dreams (yes america has them u don't have to go to machu picchu lol!) - los ebanos, tx and philomath, ga world - outside of usa large - tokyo dake desu yo!! med lrg - bs as, arg; vancouver, can smallish - matamoros, mx; reykjavik, ice; anywhere bet. toulon, fr and genoa, it places of dreams- 'obscured by clouds,' papua new guinea; tristan de cunha & ^ shibam, yemen if i missed manhattan! :)
August 13, 201212 yr tristan de cunha That's hysterical. I went on a remote island binge on google maps a couple years ago and thought of living in a place like Tristan de Cunha or Saint Helena totally freaks me out. Though I guess Pitcairn Island would be the worst given its icky criminal history.
August 14, 201212 yr ^ ha, yeah - definately an armchair reaction to my current setting! wait, i should probably amend everything to splitting time between seychelles and verbier in the alps.
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