I didn't do the books, but my understanding was that it was the expensive insurance and the fact that other sales like liquor and food were lower, so the money has to be made somehow.

 

Serious question:  did the people who would normally get tipped get paid a bonus for working these shows?

 

I have known bar owners that do hip hop nights with outside promoters charge them extra rent so that they give their bartenders extra money for the night.  Without it most of them would refuse to work.

 

Why are the bar sales lower? Lots of pre-gaming?

 

Its two fold.  The sales tend to be lower because hip hop fans tend to smoke more than they drink ;) ;). 

 

And in reality, that community doesn't tip well.  Call it a stereotype, but it's plain and simple.  I've seen $200 bottles of Dom ordered and they'll leave the bartender a buck. 

 

In 2015 I'm thinking about keeping a meticulous record of tips in a notebook.  It could make for an incredibly controversial Buzzfeed article!  I work for tips about 120-150 nights a year so that's enough data to determine trends. 

 

I agree that hipster-looking individuals are generally solid tippers, as are frat guys.  Best tippers are middle-aged gay men. 

 

 

 

Getting a few people to do this in different types of places and pooling the results would be an extremely revealing piece of work, and likely provoke not a "sandstorm" but something with a three letter difference.

 

You'd need to mask you identities though because the IRS might target you.

I used to be a hipster, but I'm over it. It's so played out. Time to find a new trend.

 

agreed.  I wish more people felt that way

Or, you know what would work better? Grow up and act your age and stop caring what other people do with their lives? Yeah, maybe try that out for a change.

 

This thread is so childish at times. Get over yourselves people.

I used to be a hipster, but I'm over it. It's so played out. Time to find a new trend.

 

A "Hipster Rehab" or "Hipster Intervention" TV show would be a smash.  It could be hosted by Donald Trump and Sgt. Slaughter. 

 

 

I used to be a hipster, but I'm over it. It's so played out. Time to find a new trend.

 

Don't worry about labels and just be yourself :-)

 

I used to be a hipster, but I'm over it. It's so played out. Time to find a new trend.

 

A "Hipster Rehab" or "Hipster Intervention" TV show would be a smash.  It could be hosted by Donald Trump and Sgt. Slaughter. 

 

 

 

You'd definitely hear Sarge call people "maggots" a lot!

I used to be a hipster, but I'm over it. It's so played out. Time to find a new trend.

 

A "Hipster Rehab" or "Hipster Intervention" TV show would be a smash.  It could be hosted by Donald Trump and Sgt. Slaughter. 

 

 

 

You'd definitely hear Sarge call people "maggots" a lot!

 

I'd like to see some hipsters doing live-fire exercises.  You know that one where they make you crawl under the barbed wire with dudes firing machine guns just above your head. 

 

I used to be a hipster, but I'm over it. It's so played out. Time to find a new trend.

 

Don't worry about labels and just be yourself :-)

 

I was myself before it was cool.

Are the hipsters responsible for bringing flannel shirts back into style?  If so, I appreciate the efforts.

I don't think flannel ever went out in Ohio. It did go out on the East Coast for a while.

It was out here in Cleveland, at least from what I could tell, since the mid-90s.  NEO might follow the East Coast trends more closely than the rest of the state, for better or worse.

Are the hipsters responsible for bringing flannel shirts back into style?  If so, I appreciate the efforts.

 

In the 90s males and females alike were wearing old ill-fitting plaid shirts. 

 

People watching Space Balls now don't understand the full context of the "they've gone plaid" line.  Nobody was wearing plaid at that time.  Plaid was as bad as polyester. 

 

Plaids never been out of style, you hear me!

a targeted ad for weekend transit work.  :-D

 

 

Hipsters beware

 

7:19 pm

 

Maintenance work to suspend L service on late nights and weekends

 

L train service from Brooklyn to Manhattan will be suspended on late night and weekends starting in March, the New York Post reported.

 

The L will only run between the Canarsie and Lorimer stops from 12 to 5 a.m. on weekends from April 11 to May 18 for maintenance work. The train will not run from Brooklyn to Manhattan on from 12 to 5 a.m. daily from March 24 to May 22, but will run on the weekends before April 11.

 

Shuttle buses and extra M14 service is planned.

jmecklenborg[/member] has speculated about rollerskating coming back in style. What about this?

 

Ottawa has a four mile ice skating highway

 

Rideau Canal Skateway 2011 by Go_OffStation, on Flickr

^ That may work in Canada, but I don’t know if the climate supports it in enough places to make it trule catch on. I do agree that roller rinks are going to make a comeback in the not too distant future. If I had the money, I’d invest in one. The key would be getting a liquor license, and the hiccup would be finding insurance on an establishment that had a bunch of drunken people falling down on roller skates. I imagine some sort of liability waiver with the skate rental could take care of that.

Travis for the record I said rollerblading, not skating.  The fact is rollerblading was a ton of fun and it only went out of style because it was systematically attacked by skateboarding who after a vicious decade-long campaign succeeded in getting it booted from the X-games around 2001 or 2002.   

Travis for the record I said rollerblading, not skating.  The fact is rollerblading was a ton of fun and it only went out of style because it was systematically attacked by skateboarding who after a vicious decade-long campaign succeeded in getting it booted from the X-games around 2001 or 2002.   

 

The X-Games' switch to motorsports with their much more expensive products and higher ad revenue was the main goal. Most of those little skate companies didn't have enough cash to compete with the bicycle conglomerate let alone those monster Japanese motorcycle firms and the world's car manufacturers. Even the skate wear company DC Shoes emphasizes auto racing/hooning and the major skaters, motorcycle competitors and bicyclists put in race cars.

Travis there's a whole cottage industry out there of ironic food reviews.  Like this one: https://twitter.com/eatmebeepme

 

Travis for the record I said rollerblading, not skating.  The fact is rollerblading was a ton of fun and it only went out of style because it was systematically attacked by skateboarding who after a vicious decade-long campaign succeeded in getting it booted from the X-games around 2001 or 2002.   

 

The X-Games' switch to motorsports with their much more expensive products and higher ad revenue was the main goal. Most of those little skate companies didn't have enough cash to compete with the bicycle conglomerate let alone those monster Japanese motorcycle firms and the world's car manufacturers. Even the skate wear company DC Shoes emphasizes auto racing/hooning and the major skaters, motorcycle competitors and bicyclists put in race cars.

 

The most hardcore sporting events are free climbing and anything involving motorcycles.  The problem with free climbing is that there's nothing to buy except some chalk and a helicopter ride to the hospital/funeral home.  Anyone who is into motorcycles (or ATV's) is constantly breaking something and needing $500-$1,000 repairs. 

Travis for the record I said rollerblading, not skating.  The fact is rollerblading was a ton of fun and it only went out of style because it was systematically attacked by skateboarding who after a vicious decade-long campaign succeeded in getting it booted from the X-games around 2001 or 2002.   

 

Why do we differentiate between "rollerskating" and "rollerblading" anyway? And shouldn't it be "iceblading"?

Travis for the record I said rollerblading, not skating.  The fact is rollerblading was a ton of fun and it only went out of style because it was systematically attacked by skateboarding who after a vicious decade-long campaign succeeded in getting it booted from the X-games around 2001 or 2002.   

 

Why do we differentiate between "rollerskating" and "rollerblading" anyway? And shouldn't it be "iceblading"?

 

Roller skates have their wheels in a rectangular pattern, one per foot.  Rollerblades have their wheels inline, one per foot.  Skateboards have rectangular pattern wheels, one per person.

 

Sk8ers didn't like rollerblading because trend following rollerbladers "invaded" their prime locations and went all NIMNBY on them.

Travis there's a whole cottage industry out there of ironic food reviews.  Like this one: https://twitter.com/eatmebeepme

 

Travis for the record I said rollerblading, not skating.  The fact is rollerblading was a ton of fun and it only went out of style because it was systematically attacked by skateboarding who after a vicious decade-long campaign succeeded in getting it booted from the X-games around 2001 or 2002.   

 

The X-Games' switch to motorsports with their much more expensive products and higher ad revenue was the main goal. Most of those little skate companies didn't have enough cash to compete with the bicycle conglomerate let alone those monster Japanese motorcycle firms and the world's car manufacturers. Even the skate wear company DC Shoes emphasizes auto racing/hooning and the major skaters, motorcycle competitors and bicyclists put in race cars.

 

The most hardcore sporting events are free climbing and anything involving motorcycles.  The problem with free climbing is that there's nothing to buy except some chalk and a helicopter ride to the hospital/funeral home.  Anyone who is into motorcycles (or ATV's) is constantly breaking something and needing $500-$1,000 repairs. 

 

Racing is the best buzz of them all, though. Sorry drugs and drinking, you ain't got nothing on motorsports. Unfortunately, racing costs way more than drugs and alcohol unless you are strung out or making it rain at the club. It also requires long drives to get to and only takes place at certain times.

Yeah there are two kinds of people: those who have hit 100mph+ on a motorcycle and those who haven't.  I had to swear off sport bikes completely after just one taste.

 

Not a hipster:

They don't call 100 MPH The Ton for nothing!

edit

It being mother's day, I couldn't help but watch some Danzig clips today and happened upon this gem of a comment:

 

Here is the song that provoked that comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i00D-WGW15s

 

 

It occurred to me that 1993-94 was really the very last time anyone accepted any "genuine", preposterous hard rock & roll ala Danzig.  Prior to that people were in lock-step with whatever myth an artist had built around himself, especially anyone in the metal realm.  With the rise of Weezer and people like Beck in 94-95, acts that took themselves seriously like Danzig were doomed.  Now I think Danzig occupies a special place in internet lore because his music still resonates deeply in the minds of those who "were there" back when he was the most mysterious guy in hard rock.  His music also attracted a peculiar mix of educated and uneducated people. 

 

If you look at any Danzig Facebook group you will see all of these women aged 35-45 who all raising families although the aura of Glen Danzig still strong in their lives.  It's as if his fans have turned him into KISS but he still wants to be Danzig. 

If you are a male city dweller, you have no tattoos, and no beard/facial hair..........are you the new hipster (considering you would be in the minority)?

I thought this thread was killed!

 

:whip: :whip: Get back to where you came from wicked thread!  :whip: :whip:

:wave:

Damned beatniks!

I think this falls under hipster category? It's very entertaining regardless lol.

 

https://vimeo.com/channels/highmaintenance

 

^That show is awesome. I'm a huge fan. My favorite episodes were Qasim (Uberman episode) and Rachel (the cross dressing one). I haven't seen the episodes you have to pay for, but I'm going to do it soon.

 

It just got picked up on HBO for six episodes!

look what i found google mapping around this morning -

flipping off the google truck in front of the crown hts brooklyn outpost of austin's guero's --

so damn hipsterly you'll get a toothache lol!

 

 

San Francisco's Mission hipster scene is in a visible death spiral (at least partly due to Gen Y aging out of the prime marketing demo). It's happening really fast too. There are also signs it's now entering a death phase in Uptown Oakland (though it remains strong in Temescal and West Oakland). I guess not all hyper-gentrification is bad. I welcome the change with open arms in Oakland as a small number of Marina girls have finally started moving to choice Oakland hoods which greatly ups Oak Town's fashion diversity and sex appeal. It's not just all tattoos and facial piercings now.

 

The Bay's 1% always pushes out the 2%. It's the cycle of gentrified cities. The same thing happened in the Haight, the Tenderloin, the Inner Sunset, Inner Richmond, Bernal Heights, and a dozen other once relatively affordable upper middle class neighborhoods in San Francisco and Oakland (though the Tenderloin SF and Uptown Oakland went from poor to filthy rich in just a few years). The Mission is on its third or fourth wave of gentrification now and it's Mark Zuckerberg's stomping grounds. Oakland's core neighborhoods are only on their second wave of gentrification, so I expect the East Bay hipster scene to have a few more years. By 2017, I think we will be relegating hipsters to the history books in the Bay Area. The post-hipster trend is called "Yuccies" in New York City, but I see a growing divide between SF and New York since San Francisco is so much wealthier. San Francisco and Oakland are creating entirely new luxury fashion. A lot of it is made locally too. Gen Z is not buying into this hipster stuff...it stops with Gen Y. Teens and undergrads represent a major shift in the Bay. They are going to create entirely new trends.

 

By Marke B.

 

SEPTEMBER 1, 2015 — If you’re still blaming the tumultuous cultural changes San Francisco has been undergoing on “hipsters,” you might need to stop and readjust your neon shutter shades. Like the marginalized communities it was blamed for displacing, the once-overwhelming hipster onslaught has now in turn been over-run by Ivy League business school marketing grads, violently jogging ex-cheerleaders from the Midwest, Bonobos-sporting former frat bros, and Baby Bjorned global arrivistes who have absolutely no idea who Allen Ginsberg or Ariel Pink is, let alone Keyboard Cat.

 

Goodbye hand-knit beer cozies, tacky Christmas sweaters worn in July, and Three Wolf Moon tees; hello Under Armour gym socks, nude hose, and Lululemon sports bras.

 

This weekend’s announced closing of Mission hipster landmark brunch spot Boogaloos, due to “whacked out” rent, may be the final (locally-smelted, hand-wrought) nail in the (reclaimed old-growth redwood with vintage silk lining) coffin of a hipster cultural stratum previously defined by indie irony, fitted flannels, large-print t-shirts, small-scale free-range production techniques, twirly mustaches, PBR ‘n burrito burps, Frankensteined fixes, post-punk hip-hop retro-disco garage rock blog house, Web 1.0 MS Paint design aesthetics, and Hipster Runoff.

 

Not even a robust gap-year trust fund can withstand the skyrocketing rents here.

 

FULL ARTICLE

http://www.48hills.org/2015/09/01/the-san-francisco-hipster-is-dead-yall/

What I found interesting about that article was the Fugazi lob in the last paragraph.  I was the exact right age to experience that band in its idealized period, but I didn't like them or their fans, and never got into them or Minor Threat.  But in reading it I found myself astride the writer who made that reference because it's just so amazing that a generation of teenagers like myself took the existence of the the most anti-corporate band of all time for granted are oddly nostalgic for a band we didn't even really like.  I now find myself oddly nostalgic for that band and its scene because I suppose I enjoyed some security in knowing that there were bands and scenes out there that were far left of my own position during the years when they were active.  Perhaps 10% of the high school and college-aged population was aware of Fugazi and the straight-edge, passionately anti-corporate cause in the 1990s.  That cause has been completely forgotten in the 2010's in San Francisco and everywhere else between it and the Atlantic.  It must be especially painful for SF lifers who have seen the city and culture they loved 20-30-40 years ago completely upended by a bunch of mindless youngsters from mostly wealthy families attempting to make even more money.  The tech industry seems to hide behind some higher "purpose" when it's really about mixing "art" and cold hard cash, which is the time-honored way to maximum social status amongst phony people.   

 

 

 

if you think it must be painful for crunchy older sf lifers, can you even imagine how painful it must be to steve albini and henry rollins, the original straight-edgers? except who actually have bucketloads of talent. or should i say cables of talent - haha#1. well, at least one of them most certainly does, but even the other guy is better than fugazi. and no i'm not a liarrr - haha#2!

if you think it must be painful for crunchy older sf lifers, can you even imagine how painful it must be to steve albini and henry rollins, the original straight-edgers? except who actually have bucketloads of talent. or should i say cables of talent - haha#1. well, at least one of them most certainly does, but even the other guy is better than fugazi. and no i'm not a liarrr - haha#2!

 

Well the thing about punk rock in the United States in the 1980s was that even for people like me who claimed rock & roll as their #1 focus in life we all thought of punk rock as distant history.  Then all of the sudden it came roaring back as pop music in the early 90s.  All of those guys who were major figures in punk rock in the 80s -- Black Flag, Bad Brains, Dead Kennedys, etc., were all completely bypassed.  The Misfits and many others still act like Glen Danzig's solo career didn't even happen.  There's a really interesting corollary between him and Henry Rollins.  Most fans think of Rollins as THE singer for Black Flag, but Black Flag themselves never did.  He was just one of many lead singers who somehow launched a solo career that made him a minor celebrity. They had other singers who led other bands like the Circle Jerks who didn't get famous. Fans of The Misfits still want Danzig to front the band, although in his case he was a founding member.

 

I don't think that Nirvana was necessarily as good as any of those bands or as good as The Pixies or the early Breeders from whom Cobain stole almost all of his ideas.  But they were still a pretty good B+/A- band that *somehow* knocked Michael Jackson off the top of the charts back in 1991/92.  If that singular event hasn't happened, the 80s pop machine would have continued and "the 90s" never would have happened.  Where we are now is just more of the 80s.  We got back to the 80s by the late 90s and it's just been a broken record ever since.  When there was too much money they couldn't have wild cards like Pauly Shore hosting shows, they had to bring in Carson Daley and other frattish characters like Nick Lachey. 

 

 

 

 

And another thing...that rise of punk and indie rock to the forefront 1992-1995 had a profound affect on a generation of teenage girls.  It sent their whole lives in different directions because suddenly there were an assortment of completely different female role models.  All the sudden all of these young ladies were going rouge, buying crappy guitars and basses, and assembling wardrobes at St. Vincent DePaul.  The big money couldn't tolerate that and so killed off the whole thing and got everyone back in the malls buying clothes that *looked* like thrift store finds. 

 

Hard to believe that there was a 2-3 year window when the music of uproarious low-class women like Kim Deal was actually aired in regular rotation on prime time cable TV.  Speaking of Steve Albini, definitely listen to the first Breeders' record Pod, which he recorded in 1990 or 1991, and then the 4-song Safari EP from 1992.  The stuff on those two records smokes anything you see any girls playing and multi-stage festivals these days.   

 

Where we are now is just more of the 80s.  We got back to the 80s by the late 90s and it's just been a broken record ever since.

 

I think pop music in the 80's was far more diverse and interesting than what we have now. There was still a fair amount of experimentation, it seemed. Today most everything seems creatively stalled, or just so derivative.

Somebody came up with some algorithm that tracked frequencies and beats across various albums in order to see which era of music was the most singular-sounding. Turns out it was the late '80s when only pop and hair metal were popular. Country hadn't returned yet, rap wasn't selling that much and alternative wasn't that big yet.

 

Where we are now is just more of the 80s.  We got back to the 80s by the late 90s and it's just been a broken record ever since.

 

I think pop music in the 80's was far more diverse and interesting than what we have now. There was still a fair amount of experimentation, it seemed. Today most everything seems creatively stalled, or just so derivative.

 

MTV needed stuff to air and they got all of those clips from the European bands that never would have been anything in the U.S. if not for MTV's need to fill 24 hours of programming.  That's where bands like Depeche Mode and The Cure got their break in the US, as well as all of those one-hit groups like whoever recorded Safety Dance and She Blinded Me with Science.  Eclectic and amusing low-budget videos drove musical tastes of domestic bands like Devo that would have never otherwise gotten radio airplay.  And don't forget Weird Al, who was pretty much exclusively an MTV phenomenon.  I don't think his stuff ever really got played on the radio. 

 

And another thing...that rise of punk and indie rock to the forefront 1992-1995 had a profound affect on a generation of teenage girls.  It sent their whole lives in different directions because suddenly there were an assortment of completely different female role models.  All the sudden all of these young ladies were going rouge, buying crappy guitars and basses, and assembling wardrobes at St. Vincent DePaul.  The big money couldn't tolerate that and so killed off the whole thing and got everyone back in the malls buying clothes that *looked* like thrift store finds. 

 

Hard to believe that there was a 2-3 year window when the music of uproarious low-class women like Kim Deal was actually aired in regular rotation on prime time cable TV.  Speaking of Steve Albini, definitely listen to the first Breeders' record Pod, which he recorded in 1990 or 1991, and then the 4-song Safari EP from 1992.  The stuff on those two records smokes anything you see any girls playing and multi-stage festivals these days.   

 

Out of the probably ten or so times I saw Black Flag live, Henry Rollins was with them only once as I recall.

 

and as for the Discord/Fugazi scene, I lived in DC from '87-'93, and while their shows were good, the preachiness and pious attitude was particularly whiney and grating. Moreover they would often basically lock you in a place i.e. "no re-entry," in order to maintain the straight edge no drinking policy.

 

I'll never forget the benefit I went to in an old sound stage in DC. Fugazi, Sonic Youth...bunch of bands. Only $5. And it started early on a Saturday. I went in only to discover no beer and no re-entry, and a bunch of speechifying on stage by "organizers."  I had a huge headache within hours. It was worth it to leave and pound a 40 and pay another $5 rather than lay down on the floor in the fetal position while a guy from CISPES or something prattles on.

 

What say you? LOL

 

if you think it must be painful for crunchy older sf lifers, can you even imagine how painful it must be to steve albini and henry rollins, the original straight-edgers? except who actually have bucketloads of talent. or should i say cables of talent - haha#1. well, at least one of them most certainly does, but even the other guy is better than fugazi. and no i'm not a liarrr - haha#2!

if you think it must be painful for crunchy older sf lifers, can you even imagine how painful it must be to steve albini and henry rollins, the original straight-edgers? except who actually have bucketloads of talent. or should i say cables of talent - haha#1. well, at least one of them most certainly does, but even the other guy is better than fugazi. and no i'm not a liarrr - haha#2!

 

Well the thing about punk rock in the United States in the 1980s was that even for people like me who claimed rock & roll as their #1 focus in life we all thought of punk rock as distant history.  Then all of the sudden it came roaring back as pop music in the early 90s.  All of those guys who were major figures in punk rock in the 80s -- Black Flag, Bad Brains, Dead Kennedys, etc., were all completely bypassed.  The Misfits and many others still act like Glen Danzig's solo career didn't even happen.  There's a really interesting corollary between him and Henry Rollins.  Most fans think of Rollins as THE singer for Black Flag, but Black Flag themselves never did.  He was just one of many lead singers who somehow launched a solo career that made him a minor celebrity. They had other singers who led other bands like the Circle Jerks who didn't get famous. Fans of The Misfits still want Danzig to front the band, although in his case he was a founding member.

 

I don't think that Nirvana was necessarily as good as any of those bands or as good as The Pixies or the early Breeders from whom Cobain stole almost all of his ideas.  But they were still a pretty good B+/A- band that *somehow* knocked Michael Jackson off the top of the charts back in 1991/92.  If that singular event hasn't happened, the 80s pop machine would have continued and "the 90s" never would have happened.  Where we are now is just more of the 80s.  We got back to the 80s by the late 90s and it's just been a broken record ever since.  When there was too much money they couldn't have wild cards like Pauly Shore hosting shows, they had to bring in Carson Daley and other frattish characters like Nick Lachey. 

 

 

 

 

 

Well the thing about punk rock in the United States in the 1980s was that even for people like me who claimed rock & roll as their #1 focus in life we all thought of punk rock as distant history.  Then all of the sudden it came roaring back as pop music in the early 90s.  All of those guys who were major figures in punk rock in the 80s -- Black Flag, Bad Brains, Dead Kennedys, etc., were all completely bypassed.  The Misfits and many others still act like Glen Danzig's solo career didn't even happen.  There's a really interesting corollary between him and Henry Rollins.  Most fans think of Rollins as THE singer for Black Flag, but Black Flag themselves never did.  He was just one of many lead singers who somehow launched a solo career that made him a minor celebrity. They had other singers who led other bands like the Circle Jerks who didn't get famous. Fans of The Misfits still want Danzig to front the band, although in his case he was a founding member.

 

I don't think that Nirvana was necessarily as good as any of those bands or as good as The Pixies or the early Breeders from whom Cobain stole almost all of his ideas.  But they were still a pretty good B+/A- band that *somehow* knocked Michael Jackson off the top of the charts back in 1991/92.  If that singular event hasn't happened, the 80s pop machine would have continued and "the 90s" never would have happened.  Where we are now is just more of the 80s.  We got back to the 80s by the late 90s and it's just been a broken record ever since.  When there was too much money they couldn't have wild cards like Pauly Shore hosting shows, they had to bring in Carson Daley and other frattish characters like Nick Lachey. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

of course, there was no somehow about it. it was quite a deliberate corporate action. mtv in collusion with the entrenched record company establishment jugheads were still dragging their feet on the hiphop take over, over ten years on and which was a done deal by the 1990s already, so they promoted nirvana and it's fabricated grunge era. it was the last gasp of music television. and of rock in general for that matter, which was doomed ever since the people got that first taste of rappers delight in 1979. takes a nation of millions.

of course, there was no somehow about it. it was quite a deliberate corporate action. mtv in collusion with the entrenched record company establishment jugheads were still dragging their feet on the hiphop take over, over ten years on and which was a done deal by the 1990s already, so they promoted nirvana and it's fabricated grunge era. it was the last gasp of music television. and of rock in general for that matter, which was doomed ever since the people got that first taste of rappers delight in 1979. takes a nation of millions.

 

"Grunge" was definitely fabricated, but it wasn't in order to block hip-hop, which was by no means a done deal among the white suburban kids.  It was an intentional counterpoint to metal, which was scaring them for political reasons.  Metal fans and bands were either apolitical or libertarian, and quite willing to vote GOP.  It did help pave the way for hip hop, just like 70s schmaltz did for punk.

 

Ironically, punk had more influence on late 80s metal bands than it did on grunge.  Without grunge, the next thing was punk-metal-pop, and "trippy" metal like Enuff Z'Nuff and Mother Love Bone, which just might have been the Seattle band to break out if not for heroin.

no, dont kid yourself, it was much more to block hip hop than metal, but yeah probably a bit of that too. grunge follows a lineage back to hair metal and then van halen before that. more so than alternative, although they certainly co-opted some of that too. grunge bands were not on alternative radio, they were blue collar rock bands. classic era college alternative radio thrived in the early 1980s and was dead as a force by the 1990s. the grunge blip was just the next white pop rock. the last gasp of it. in popular music anyway.

Which, by the way.  Any good documentaries on the grunge era?

 

 

Ironically, punk had more influence on late 80s metal bands than it did on grunge.  Without grunge, the next thing was punk-metal-pop, and "trippy" metal like Enuff Z'Nuff and Mother Love Bone, which just might have been the Seattle band to break out if not for heroin.

 

I still maintain that Poison and Green Day are nearly identical bands.

 

 

 

 

 

Same damn song.

^ Gawd the tinny treble! production on those 80's hair metal bands was awful!

 

Ya know there was a glam band whose name escapes me, who sounded a lot like the Ramones before the Ramones ever existed. So the hair metal/punk thing just may be a little closer related than people realize.