I posted a couple of years ago while I was living in Chicago about the possibility of moving back to NE Ohio (I grew up in Oberlin). Now that I'm married and looking to have kids soon, I'm getting my ducks in a row to finally make the move back 'home'. My parents have always lived in the area and both my brothers have moved back recently (one in Avon Lake and one in Vermilion). Bottom line, I want to be closer to family.

 

Unlike my brothers, I want to live in in Cleveland proper and don't want the suburban life. I've zeroed in on the usual prospects, DS, Ohio City, Tremont, and Little Italy..possibly downtown.

 

I've read all of the threads and researched all of the areas pretty thoroughly, but here is where I'd like some feedback from locals on 2 properties in particular and why are the prices so low? The one in Tremont really has me scratching my head.

 

DS:

 

http://www.progressiveurban.com/p/259/3324932

 

Tremont:

 

http://www.progressiveurban.com/p/259/3172609

 

I know the pros and cons of all 3 have been beaten to death, but I'm seriously torn. Part of me just wants to say screw it and buy a condo at the Pointe of Gateway downtown.

 

Anyway, any insights on to the wildy disparate prices on homes on the same street would be greatly appreciated.

Chicagoist, glad to hear you're moving back! Welcome. And if you know of anyone wanting to buy a great condo in Brecksville, let me know. My father's 1990-built large condo has been for sale for a couple of years!

 

To your question about the Tremont home, I think you're experiencing a bit of Cleveland sticker shock -- the shock is from the low prices we offer. These prices are not out of line for an older home in NE Ohio. The prices for these two old homes are only slightly less than what I would have expected them to fetch. Notice that most of the homes listing for $200,000+ are new (2005+) construction. Like my father's home, many houses have been on the market for a long time. Many are turning into rentals (as we've had to do with my father's temporarily) while others have been in foreclosure for a very long time and are being released to the market again -- driving down prices. It truly is a buyers' market, especially with low interest rates too. If you can get financing, then you buy. Absolutely. If you can't get financing, you'll probably find some good rental deals out there too.

 

But the short answer is -- welcome to the wonderful world of NE Ohio's housing market. If you want cheap AND good, you've come to the right place!

Wildly disparate prices on the same street could be due to appraisal fraud during the 2000's.  Banks routinely demanded high appraisals in which proximity wasn't the factor it should have been.  New construction was especially overvalued during that era.  Developers and financiers would just pick a number, and that number never made sense.

I wanted to throw this property out there to you as well. 

 

http://www.opphomes.com/detail2.asp?id=ESN

 

A renovated home in a growing neighborhood.  Plenty of kids and plenty of good people.  Edgewater Hill Block is from 73rd to 76th north of Detroit.  Alot of great things going on and our block club is as strong as its ever been.  Always looking for people dedicated to improving the neighborhood while enjoying urban lifestyle.

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback. Having lived in Chicago (and now Madison, WI) I can appreciate the housing prices can differ greatly block by block.  I guess I'm just more skittish when seeing the same thing in Cleveland.  That Tremont house is in a great location on a great street in the 'good' part of Tremont -- and yet under 100K?!?

 

Fwiw, my wife has been to Cleveland multiple times and likes Lakewood the best because it reminds her of Chicago. I've got a sales job to do!

That Tremont house has 0 off street parking.

 

That is a factor in the price delta.

 

think of what a parking space is worth in Chicago.  In Tremont not worth nearly as much...but much > than 0.  I looked at buying in the Fries and Shule building in OC.  Couldn't buy an extra space for 25 grand.

 

 

^Detroit Shoreway is definitely getting a Wicker Park feel to it, Tremont is kind of like North Center / Lincoln Square.

 

I live in New Orleans now, but moved down from Chicago, Roscoe Village and (unfortunately) South Loop.

 

My guess to why house prices seem to be all over the map is for a few reasons. 

  1. With the housing slowdown, it is harder to make apples to apples "comps"

  2. THe older housing stock, some have been through extensive renovations, some haven't

  3. You may see some houses that were owned by parents who may have passed on, with the remaining family living out of town.  They don't know the worth, or just want to sell it quick

 

My suggestion is to go to a bar in the neighborhood and ask the people there.  For instance, Stone Mad in DS, and South Side in Tremont.  They can give you the ins and outs of the neighborhood.

 

 

"That Tremont house has 0 off street parking."

 

Or central air. And to the best of my knowledge, residential permit parking isn't available either (in other areas such as Little Italy, but not Tremont).

 

As far as it being in the "good" part of Tremont - a lot of people who live elsewhere in Tremont (like me) feel differently. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly not a 'bad' area but it's a tradeoff. Yes, that's where all the hot spots are (bars, galleries, restaurants) but that house is right on top of the action. Good luck finding a parking spot on a weekend; then there's the noise levels, there are issues dealing with visitors who don't respect the neighborhood (my friends who live near there have had to call to have cars towed out of their driveway on more than one occasion). Just some things to consider.

I would guess, based on the photos, that the house in Tremont has been maintained, but never extensively remodeled. Which means based on the age, that the house probably hasn't had its wiring replaced (meaning a home owner would pay more in insurance) hasn't had insulation installed (meaning a homeowner would pay more in heating/cooling, plus you'll hear all the noise from everyone in neighborhood) hasn't had central air installed (meaning a homeowner would have to keep a few window AC units blocking up their windows all summer) plus who knows what other maintenance issues that wouldn't/couldn't be found till it's actually inspected. That's not to say that all that couldn't be done, but if the price is surprisingly low compared to its neighbors there's probably a reason.

I would choose Detroit Shoreway over Tremont, but that's a personal preference based on a variety of factors.

 

Look on the north side of Detroit primarily, from 76th heading back east to 58th.  Some solid single family homes with decent yards. 

- Also look for some of the homes which have already been "flipped" by Cleveland Housing Network.  These have all new wall insulation, windows, drywall, mechanicals, etc.  Also usually have new driveways & garages out back. 

- Look for some of vacant lots as well which can be purchased and built on. 

- Perhaps also buying an older, possibly bank owned home, which could be purchased, torn down & rebuilt for a great long term investment, as the 15 yr tax abatement would apply.

How's the real estate doing in DS these days? I was just in Tremont last night and noticed a LOT of renovations and new builds. I always thought the best area to invest in the next couple of years would be the W 40ths-W 60ths between bridge and the lake. It's smack dab in the middle of Gordon Square and the Market District. Anyway, I say they're both great places. For a more neighborhood feel, I'd go with Tremont. If you love the lake, definitely DS because of the proximity to Edgewater.

I would guess, based on the photos, that the house in Tremont has been maintained, but never extensively remodeled. Which means based on the age, that the house probably hasn't had its wiring replaced (meaning a home owner would pay more in insurance) hasn't had insulation installed (meaning a homeowner would pay more in heating/cooling, plus you'll hear all the noise from everyone in neighborhood) hasn't had central air installed (meaning a homeowner would have to keep a few window AC units blocking up their windows all summer) plus who knows what other maintenance issues that wouldn't/couldn't be found till it's actually inspected. That's not to say that all that couldn't be done, but if the price is surprisingly low compared to its neighbors there's probably a reason.

 

IDK, that Tremont house looks pretty remuddled, to me.

 

I'm pretty sure it's been for sale for a long time.  I remember seeing it (who can forget the wagon wheel style porch railings?) back when I was looking (had a friend who was looking to buy in the OC/Tremont area, and wanted my advice) a few years ago.  Maybe someone decided to flip it, and did a poor job?

 

--edited to add--

 

I just took a closer look at the DS house, and it might have been a poorly done flip, too.  Take a closer look at the front stairs.  I'm not a real estate professional, but based on what I'm seeing in the pics, these houses were remuddled on the cheap, and they probably don't show well in real life.  And so, the price reflects a lack of interest by potential buyers.

DS North of Detroit is the right call.

 

You should buy this house, about 50% complete and you still have time to get custom work done on the inside. 

 

http://www.opphomes.com/detail2.asp?id=EOZ

I would choose Detroit Shoreway over Tremont, but that's a personal preference based on a variety of factors.

 

Look on the north side of Detroit primarily, from 76th heading back east to 58th.  Some solid single family homes with decent yards. 

- Also look for some of the homes which have already been "flipped" by Cleveland Housing Network.  These have all new wall insulation, windows, drywall, mechanicals, etc.  Also usually have new driveways & garages out back. 

- Look for some of vacant lots as well which can be purchased and built on. 

- Perhaps also buying an older, possibly bank owned home, which could be purchased, torn down & rebuilt for a great long term investment, as the 15 yr tax abatement would apply.

 

If you don't mind sharing on a public forum, why would you choose DS over Tremont?  I've driven through both fairly extensively and Tremont just seems more vibrant and livable right now. (My perspective is purely as an outsider who has done a few drive-bys in each neighborhood and some research online) 

My personal preferences for choosing Detroit Shoreway over Tremont

 

- The Gordon Square area with the Capitol Theater & surrounding businesses: Has the feel of a small defined "downtown" and I see this area continuing to build momentum, albeit slowly, and become a real destination for performing arts & entertainment.  78th Street studios is still relatively unknown but is gaining notoriety and has the making for being a major attraction.

- Detroit Shoreway has the lakefront & close proximity to Edgewater Park, huge underutilized resource which should only get better if Metroparks should take control of the park or if parts of the Shoreway conversion continue

- Tremont has it's assets & definitely has momentum but it also lacks the defined "downtown" feel that Gordon Square has.  Much of the housing seems to either be newer construction townhomes or rundown outdated stock with very little in between

- Detroit Shoreway has been focusing their "model block" renovations of homes between 73rd & 78th, giving those blocks a defined sort of quality neighborhood.  I don't see anywhere like this in Tremont.  Some solid quality single family homes north of Detroit from 58th heading west.  Also some nice quality single family homes along Clinton & Franklin, from 74th to 58th

Agreed.  Tremont is actually one of my lower "hot neighborhoods". It's alright every few months, but I spend very little time there (aside from Target haha).

Plus, D-S has a grocery store (Save-A-Lot) as well as Stockyard Meats on its main thoroughfare, making them an easy walk/bike/transit trip from much of the neighborhood than Steelyard Commons is from much of Tremont.

I moved to DS in March and absolutely love it.  I also lived in Tremont for two years before I bought a house actually a little south of Detroit and 57th.  To my surprise it's a much quieter neighborhood than Tremont.  Can't beat being able to walk to the lake either!!

I actually can't wait until DS and Tremont are are actually connected by the towpath/lake trail. This new and convenient connector will be a huge plus for both neighborhoods.

Tremont is much safer and more gentrified, if that's your thing. That Tremont house in the picture is cheap because it has no parking and is a double, which these days is a pretty undesirable trait. I used to live right by that Tremont house. The neighborhood was great and super convenient with nearby bars, restaurants, and corner stores. It's also a short drive/15 minute walk to the Market and Dave's and a 15 min walk to the train. I ended up buying a house in DS because of cost. What would cost 200k in Tremont you can get for 130k in DS. The old housing stock in DS is actually much nicer than the stock in Tremont (from an architectural perspective), but more poorly maintained overall, so there is an excess of available stock compared to Tremont. There are still plenty of houses like the one you posted in DS that will go for 20-50k because they haven't been maintained and the neighborhood hasn't quite reached the level of stabilization that Tremont has. That being said, I love the neighborhood (DS). I can walk to the train in 2 minutes, the bars are slightly less corny/trendy than those in Tremont, and I got an awesome house for the same price I was paying for rent in Tremont.

As someone who looked at a lot of houses before buying, keep this in mind.

 

The photos which appear on the real estate sites are taken to show the home in the best light. Think about what the home will actually be like to live in. Does the lay out of the house appeal to you and your lifestyle?  Do you need larger rooms for entertaining. How important is privacy and nose to you? Look at how close the house next door is to the house you are considering. Do you mind going up and down stairs?  What do you like to walk to?  Do you want a house which requires constant maintenance or do you prefer to have everything done and little maintenance needed for years?  Where do you like to go and hang out?  One of the most valuble questions a realtor asked me was, "Where do you go?"  Since Cleveland winters are long and cold we spend a lot of our time indoors and I think it's important to feel comfortable in the house.  Do  you like a  house with a lot of natural light?  Do you like gardening or would you prefer a really small yard? You can find some houses with minimal yards in some cases paved over in the back if you want to cut down on yard work. 

Hello All,

Since I first reached out in this forum more 4 years ago about my desire to relocate back to Cleveland, I finally found a good job and will be moving back in 4 weeks. My job is located in Oberlin and we will be renting there for the first year as my wife is 7 months pregnant and my parents live in Oberlin and will be able to help with a newborn. My job is about 40% travel so I will become intimately familiar with Hopkins as well.

 

So we have time before we buy. My previous focus was on DS and Tremont obviously, but now that I've done some more research I've pushed a little westward and focusing on Edgewater,Lakewood, Kamm's Corner, Fairview Park and possibly Rocky River. I was just in town last weekend and drove through all 4 areas and also OC and Detroit-Shoreway. Actually, I was really impressed by how far Detroit-Shoreway has come along since I was last there almost 2 years ago.  It keeps calling me! Ha

 

My wife really liked the bungalows in Kamm's Corner. That was her favorite area. She didn't like Lakewood this time around except for Clinton Blvd. I was pleasantly surprised by Fairview Park.  We also want to buy less house so we're not house poor and my wife can be a stay at home if she so chooses, so I'd like to keep it in the 150K range which I fully understand limits us considerably in Fairview and Rocky River.

 

I'm very intrigued by Kamm's and it's family friendliness and relative stability. I understand the city lifted the residency requirement a few years ago and I assume that had some kind of impact.  My mild concerns about Kamm's is would we fit in with the neighborhood demographics?  We both come from middle to middle upper-class families, college educated, professional jobs, etc. A neighborhood with a good mix of white collar and blue collar professionals would be good. When we buy we plan on being in that place for the next 10-20 years at least.  So good people of UrbanOhio is Kamm's a good choice to put down roots long term? If not, why?  Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm familiar with all of the pros and cons of each neighborhood and area.  My heart is leaning towards Kamm

 

I think Kamms (especially along rocky river drive North of Lorain) is a great place for a family. It depends on what ur looking for. My wife and I live in DS and love it. There is a talent gap between Tremont/DS and Kamms in the creative community. If you want to walk to peak culinary talent on a weekend night and stroll on the beach for sunset, DS is your place. But Kamms has a hearty character to it and I see the appeal. I would say no to Fairview, personally. I think you would be leaving some quality of life on the table in terms of walkability, green space, food, etc. places like OC and DS also have robust programs for ppl w young kids to encourage raising families and continuing to live a great life in the city.  PM me if you want more info about DS - there are tons of young families here and I can give u more specifics about the area

My wife really liked the bungalows in Kamm's Corner. That was her favorite area. She didn't like Lakewood this time around except for Clinton Blvd. I was pleasantly surprised by Fairview Park.  We also want to buy less house so we're not house poor and my wife can be a stay at home if she so chooses, so I'd like to keep it in the 150K range which I fully understand limits us considerably in Fairview and Rocky River.

 

Did you mean Clifton? If so, I've lived in an apartment-style on Clifton at the east end of Lakewood since 1996. Lots of great stuff happening here. You might also consider the Edgewater section of Cleveland, such as the side streets off Clifton. Lots of investment happening in this area in terms of infrastructure and new development. It might be a good time to get in on the ground floor of this stable and improving neighborhood. It's an easy ride into Hopkins's main terminal on the Red Line from this area, but its a long drive to Oberlin (as it would be from Detroit-Shoreway too). It's a lot easier to get to Oberlin from Kamm's. Also, check the sidestreets in Lakewood north of Detroit and west of Bunts. Detroit Avenue has seen a dramatic rise in the number of shops, restaurants and amenities (new YMCA, library, etc) west of Bunts.

 

I covered Kamm's for the community newspaper until last year, so I'm pretty familiar with it and can tell you its a very stable community. The residency law was struck down, but the city gives extra points on civil service exams to applicants of new jobs or promotions to people living in Cleveland. So I've not seen city workers flee the city. However, Baby Boomers retiring and/or becoming empty nesters has caused many older homeowners in Kamms to pursue scaling down their lifestyles, which includes selling their homes and moving into apartments or condos. So you may be able to get more house in Kamm's -- or Fairview and Rocky River, which also have a large amount of bungalows between Lorain and Hilliard roads.

 

Follow your heart. If you love a neighborhood, find the right home in it. Take your time. It took me three years to find the perfect home for me. And I've here for nearly 18 years now. Who knows, I may live here for another 18 years or more....

My wife really liked the bungalows in Kamm's Corner. That was her favorite area. She didn't like Lakewood this time around except for Clinton Blvd. I was pleasantly surprised by Fairview Park.  We also want to buy less house so we're not house poor and my wife can be a stay at home if she so chooses, so I'd like to keep it in the 150K range which I fully understand limits us considerably in Fairview and Rocky River.

 

Did you mean Clifton? If so, I've lived in an apartment-style on Clifton at the east end of Lakewood since 1996. Lots of great stuff happening here. You might also consider the Edgewater section of Cleveland, such as the side streets off Clifton. Lots of investment happening in this area in terms of infrastructure and new development. It might be a good time to get in on the ground floor of this stable and improving neighborhood. It's an easy ride into Hopkins's main terminal on the Red Line from this area, but its a long drive to Oberlin (as it would be from Detroit-Shoreway too). It's a lot easier to get to Oberlin from Kamm's. Also, check the sidestreets in Lakewood north of Detroit and west of Bunts. Detroit Avenue has seen a dramatic rise in the number of shops, restaurants and amenities (new YMCA, library, etc) west of Bunts.

 

I covered Kamm's for the community newspaper until last year, so I'm pretty familiar with it and can tell you its a very stable community. The residency law was struck down, but the city gives extra points on civil service exams to applicants of new jobs or promotions to people living in Cleveland. So I've not seen city workers flee the city. However, Baby Boomers retiring and/or becoming empty nesters has caused many older homeowners in Kamms to pursue scaling down their lifestyles, which includes selling their homes and moving into apartments or condos. So you may be able to get more house in Kamm's -- or Fairview and Rocky River, which also have a large amount of bungalows between Lorain and Hilliard roads.

 

Follow your heart. If you love a neighborhood, find the right home in it. Take your time. It took me three years to find the perfect home for me. And I've here for nearly 18 years now. Who knows, I may live here for another 18 years or more....

 

Good catch, yes, I meant Clifton. Edgewater is intriguing too. Around Clifton is obviously very nice.  Great location. You're right about taking our time. A year should give us a good sense of the direction we want to go and it may just boil down to if we love a particular house, because as I said, we're in it for the long haul. 

 

You all can call me a dork but I just bought my first cell phone in years (always had work issued iPhones) and had to choose a NE Ohio cell #.  Instead of going with area code 440 because I'd be in Oberlin I requested a 216 and got it.  My Lorain County based family is already razzing me about it but I don't care!