Brightdreams, just to give you appropriate expectations before you visit our fair city in person, much of the east side of the city proper is very, very troubled, and suffers from extreme abandonment, depopulation, crime, blight etc.  Most people who have spent any time in cities have seen neighborhoods like this, but I think a lot of first time visitors are unprepared for the geographic extent of the devastation in Cleveland. So to answer your specific question, much of the east side proper, IMHO, has very little hope of property appreciation for the foreseeable future, and will continue depopulating.

 

There are some very significant exceptions, however. University Circle is enjoying a very significant bloom in new build construction in its heart and to some extent in surrounding areas. But this has generally NOT translated yet into a significant, noticeable, sustained, upward trajectory in the city neighborhoods north and west of University Circle.  There have been some proposals for major residential development projects immediately west of University Circle (stalled now because of the crash) and there has been a smattering of new construction and rehab, but any generalized upswing in these neighborhoods resulting from University Circle's growth is still largely speculative. These areas are still stigmatized for historical reasons and even the decent neighborhood north of Wade Park was hit hard by foreclosures and suffers from a fair amount of physical blight. People buy homes there now may end up making a killing, but again, much of our optimism for the area is aspirational at this point.

 

Shaker Square is also an exception due to its proximity to Shaker Heights and the school district spill-over.  The areas north and east of the square are stable.  And very diverse in many ways, including racially.  Most of Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights are also stable.

As far as I am concerned you are 100% spot on about detached garages. I hate them, and our weather is why. All the newer suburbs on the W side have more attached than detached, but most of our UO people here hate the W side suburbs which they think are ugly and cookie cutter. I disagree and if and when we are finally able to buy a home, I can guarantee you it will have an attached garage.

BD-Once again, based on you have described about yourself, you want to look on the near west side.  Im cut from the same cloth as you.  Sustainability, urban farming, biking, etc.  The east side has the old money.  Its where the rich lived (still live) during the peak of the industrial era.  The west side is more laid out, more space, more green space and people have capitalized on this, and practice the activities that you have described upthread.

To StrapHanger:

I understand the inherent gamble in real estate.  I currently own in an area that was, until recently, considered the "bad end of town".  However, they put in a lot of new businesses and they're revitalized enough that I have done well.  It could have just as easily gone the other way though.

Oddly, the economic crash did not hit this area as hard as many others, though one might have expected otherwise.  It's certainly not a booming area but the market is stable at least.  There are also sufficient jobs for anyone who wants to be employed to be so (though it may be something akin to McDonalds).  Actually, there's a slight surplus of jobs because there are quite a very government contractors here that require background screening as well as drug tests and that cuts out some of the population who would otherwise apply (for instance, I work with at-risk youth and we are chronically understaffed due to a ridged background check).

 

That is good to hear about Shaker Square though.  I do want a racially diverse neighborhood.

 

To rockandroller:

Haha, well, at least I am not totally crazy!  I just can't see loving walking to and from the garage especially dressed up nice when you're going to work or after a long day at work when you're tired already.  Sadly, I do have to agree about new construction.  I think most new houses are sort of ugly and samey-same looking.  (There are a few exceptions, someone here built a new house in one of the cookie cutter neighborhoods and built it to look like a roman palace, very... not samey-same, hehe.)

 

Here's my favorite house so far: http://www.trulia.com/property/3064999753-3003-Keswick-Rd-Cleveland-OH-44120  has the attached garage and everything.  Must remind myself that I cannot move yet!  LoL!

 

To BelievelandD1:

Well, I haven't moved yet, so I will look everywhere.  I'm a little more worried about finding a good school in that area. And I'm still a little lost on terminology... "Near" west side?  What is it near?  Or is it the west side that is near the east side?  I have been looking at that Detroit-Shoreway area as was suggested.  I am also going to keep my eye on some of the nearby cities to see if they change their chicken laws.

Oh, and greenspace is great but the lots themselves seem about the same in size as anywhere else in Cleveland, so I think I'd be able to do about the same amount of gardening/beekeeping/chicken keeping.  I don't really want to plan on using any community gardens/etc for that... especially for the chickens (I get really attached to my pets and I'd be worried someone would hurt them, even accidentally).

Near west side means near Downtown.  Usually it's a way of referring to Tremont, Ohio City, and Detroit-Shoreway, which are three of the most rapidly gentrifying parts of the city.

To rockandroller:

Haha, well, at least I am not totally crazy!  I just can't see loving walking to and from the garage especially dressed up nice when you're going to work or after a long day at work when you're tired already.  Sadly, I do have to agree about new construction.  I think most new houses are sort of ugly and samey-same looking.  (There are a few exceptions, someone here built a new house in one of the cookie cutter neighborhoods and built it to look like a roman palace, very... not samey-same, hehe.)

 

To my mind, you are thinking of bland developments that were built in the 80s forward where all the houses literally DO look the same. I think developments in places like North Olmsted, parts of Westlake and Strongsville that were built in the 60s and early 70s, the houses look nothing alike and are not cookie cutter at all. They are brick, old, sturdy homes with attached garages and full basements and decent sized lots.

To 327:

That's very interesting!  I love history but don't know much about Ohio or Cleveland.  So, would you say that the eastside of the "city proper" is going uphill, maintaining, or going downhill?  I know that I've read a few threads on renewal projects for the University Circle area (which is part of the reason I originally picked it).    I am hoping if I can get some houses for a reasonable price (and rent them reasonably) I can do well in either University Circle or Shaker Square (though I might choose Shaker over University for the schools if I can get a house that is in Cleveland but in the Shaker Heights school district).  My parents did well in real estate so I'm hoping to mimic them to a small degree.  Picking a city so far away from where I currently live makes checking out the market a bit hard though.

 

Do you think that the Shaker Square area does well in the area of diversity?  As I think I stated before, my siblings are mixed race and I want somewhere they would feel comfortable visiting for extended periods.

 

They have detached garages here too... but they're a carryover from when they were carriage houses I believe.  However, since it doesn't snow frequently, deeply, or lastingly it doesn't matter much (everyone had a fit last year when we had 5-8" that lasted about 5 days).  I was more thinking of several months of trudging through the snow to get to my car in the garage, then even more time shoveling out snow in an extra long driveway, and long trudges back with groceries or similar.  I like snow but it seems like that is somewhat of a design flaw... wouldn't an attached garage be more convenient?

 

Honey the Eastside is VERY DIVERSE especially "the Heights" (AKA Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights & University Heights) and Shaker Square.  If Shaker Square was a bad neighborhood, I would not live in it!

 

Where do you currently live?  The snow is not an issue.  Attached garages are not an issue.  You will have to learn how to drive in snow.

 

Cleveland in general is pretty accepting regardless of race.  I would say pre 80's that would not be the case.  Just as Eastsiders and Westsiders rarely mixed unless at a Browns game!  I'm old school.  I grew up on the Eastside, we're born knowing we're better.  We live in better communities; we have the cultural institutions; we have bigger and better homes;  we have better schools;  we have better parks;  we have better shopping;  we drive better cars (foreign vs domestic);  our money is established and better;  etc.  The Eastside is full of eliteism.  Thats just the way it is.  My mothers family settled on the Westside, in Latino neighborhoods. My mother and her sister married and lived in The Heights.  We would visit our relatives on the Westside and thats it.  My cousins, as adults, do not want to live on the Eastside or Suburbs.  I would not dare move to Westside.

 

However, new people to Cleveland and the younger generation don't really care about the Eastside vs. Westside divide.

 

As far as I am concerned you are 100% spot on about detached garages. I hate them, and our weather is why. All the newer suburbs on the W side have more attached than detached, but most of our UO people here hate the W side suburbs which they think are ugly and cookie cutter. I disagree and if and when we are finally able to buy a home, I can guarantee you it will have an attached garage.

Homes with attached garages are hideous!  Regardless of the location. 

 

 

To rockandroller:

Haha, well, at least I am not totally crazy!  I just can't see loving walking to and from the garage especially dressed up nice when you're going to work or after a long day at work when you're tired already.  Sadly, I do have to agree about new construction.  I think most new houses are sort of ugly and samey-same looking.  (There are a few exceptions, someone here built a new house in one of the cookie cutter neighborhoods and built it to look like a roman palace, very... not samey-same, hehe.)

 

To my mind, you are thinking of bland developments that were built in the 80s forward where all the houses literally DO look the same. I think developments in places like North Olmsted, parts of Westlake and Strongsville that were built in the 60s and early 70s, the houses look nothing alike and are not cookie cutter at all. They are brick, old, sturdy homes with attached garages and full basements and decent sized lots.

Those houses and neighborhoods are boring.

Brightdreams - remember one thing!  Eastside, Eastside, Eastside!

 

 

To each his own. I love homes like that. Everyone is different.

I have an attached garage, and I love it! From a design standpoint, they're crap, but you can't beat them when it's pouring outside and you're trying to unload groceries, or kids, or kids who have opened the groceries and they've spilled over over the back seat and god-d@mmit, get inside, you savages, before I sell you to the circus!!!

 

I'm with the folks that suggested either near west side, or Cleveland Heights. Both seem like they would fit your needs. Shaker Square is nice, but it's a pain because you have to bow and avert your eyes every time MTS comes out on his balcony. And for god's sake, man...put on a robe.

There are now Charter schools in the city that are running on par with Solon schools (a southeast Cleveland suburb that has one of the top school systems in the state). The Cleveland Metro School District finally has a plan in place to better itself. Personally, the only further out suburbs I would consider (and that would only be if I got an amazing deal) would be Rocky River or Shaker Heights. The homes have character, there is basic shopping nearby and it is about 15 minutes from downtown/University Circle. Lakewood and Cleveland Heights would be more ideal as they have the same characteristics but are closer to the things that I frequent. Back to Cleveland...Detroit Shoreway and Ohio City are my personal favorites. The quality of home is ideal for me, they are into more sustainable living (biking, urban farming, local shopping) and they have access to great schools (both private and public). The Shaker Square area is also nice, but is more difficult to get anywhere else. Brooklyn Centre and Old Brooklyn are two neighborhoods just south of Ohio City and downtown that are extremely popular with families.  They are very stable areas with great schools and a wonderful neighborhood feel. I do not want my children to be stuck in a cul-de-sac or in a 99.9% white school. I've seen far too many kids who grow up this way and have a hard time functioning in society because they have never been exposed to the realities of life. I would suggest a book to you called "new to CLEVELAND-- A Guide to (Re)Discovering the City." It is a wonderful book written by a local man which breaks down the Cleveland neighborhoods and even gives great tips for walking tours for when you come to visit.

Regarding the detached garages, consider that many of these older homes were built at the dawn of the automobile age, so those garages housed something that was considered a luxury and wasn't used as often as they are now. So it wasn't so important to have the garage attached to the house. In fact, it was an extra-luxury back then to have off-street parking!

 

As for the abandonment on the east side, it is an area that some have described as "Detroited". There are urban prairies in this area, and they are quite evident in the comparison views on historicaerials.com. Here are a couple of them in an area called the Forgotten Triangle, which starts at the once-busy intersection of Kinsman-East 55th-Woodland and goes eastward between Woodland (SR87) and Kinsman (US422). This was one of two major ghettos in the 60s-90s (the other was along Hough and points northeast). Today, Hough has been significantly rebuilt while the Forgotten Triangle has replaced it's ghetto (where people exist) with the urban prairie (where people don't exist). Though there are small signs of investment trickling in.

 

Looking east at the once-busy intersection of Kinsman-East 55th-Woodland in the 1940s.....

 

 

 

How this five-way intersection looked in 1952....

 

 

 

The same area 54 years later....

 

 

 

Moving a little farther east on Kinsman is this working-class neighborhood near East 79th Street area in 1952.....

 

 

 

The same area 54 years later....

 

 

 

Today, this area looks like this at ground level.....

 

 

 

But, as blight chases sprawl heading outward from the city's geographic center, so does redevelopment and hope to rebuild what was destroyed.

 

The Central neighborhood in 1994....

 

 

 

The same area today.....

 

 

 

A little more of Central in 1994.....

 

 

 

The same area today....

 

 

 

So parts of Central look like this at street level today.....

 

 

To each his own. I love homes like that. Everyone is different.

Agreed.  That why there are many varieties of homes to choose from!

I have an attached garage, and I love it! From a design standpoint, they're crap, but you can't beat them when it's pouring outside and you're trying to unload groceries, or kids, or kids who have opened the groceries and they've spilled over over the back seat and god-d@mmit, get inside, you savages, before I sell you to the circus!!!

 

Sweetie, that's what a porte-cochere is for!  I'm shocked and appalled your home doesn't have one!  Obviously your kids have picked up your traits & bad habits. (side eye)

 

I'm with the folks that suggested either near west side, or Cleveland Heights. Both seem like they would fit your needs. Shaker Square is nice, but it's a pain because you have to bow and avert your eyes every time MTS comes out on his balcony. And for god's sake, man...put on a robe.

 

How dare you look up!  If you can clearly see me from street level, then......

There are now Charter schools in the city that are running on par with Solon schools (a southeast Cleveland suburb that has one of the top school systems in the state). The Cleveland Metro School District finally has a plan in place to better itself. Personally, the only further out suburbs I would consider (and that would only be if I got an amazing deal) would be Rocky River or Shaker Heights. The homes have character, there is basic shopping nearby and it is about 15 minutes from downtown/University Circle. Lakewood and Cleveland Heights would be more ideal as they have the same characteristics but are closer to the things that I frequent. Back to Cleveland...Detroit Shoreway and Ohio City are my personal favorites. The quality of home is ideal for me, they are into more sustainable living (biking, urban farming, local shopping) and they have access to great schools (both private and public). The Shaker Square area is also nice, but is more difficult to get anywhere else. Brooklyn Centre and Old Brooklyn are two neighborhoods just south of Ohio City and downtown that are extremely popular with families.  They are very stable areas with great schools and a wonderful neighborhood feel. I do not want my children to be stuck in a cul-de-sac or in a 99.9% white school. I've seen far too many kids who grow up this way and have a hard time functioning in society because they have never been exposed to the realities of life. I would suggest a book to you called "new to CLEVELAND-- A Guide to (Re)Discovering the City." It is a wonderful book written by a local man which breaks down the Cleveland neighborhoods and even gives great tips for walking tours for when you come to visit.

 

Shaker Square is difficult to get anywhere else?  Are you mad?

• The only neighborhood in Ohio with 3 train stations.
  
• We have excellent bus connections to downtown and to University Circle
  
• The drive to downtown is 20 min with no traffic.
  

However, why would anyone need to leave when everything I need is located right out of my door?  Transportation, basic/daily shopping, nature, cultural institutions, school and social events.

Let's just call an eastside-westside truce and move downtown like all the ACTUAL cool people :).  Heck, I even have an attached garage!  And there's room for plants and chickens right across the street!  Problem solved :).

Let's just call an eastside-westside truce and move downtown like all the ACTUAL cool people :) .  Heck, I even have an attached garage!  And there's room for plants and chickens right across the street!  Problem solved :) .

 

Never!  Eastside all the way!

 

 

Ms. Celebutant, you live in a a town house.  That is completely different.  I'm talking about a single family home with an attached garage.  In my opinion that is wrong on every level!

Haha...you are out of control MTS.

Lol, where the heck did you find that? 

 

And I guess I've technically been an eastsider for 10 years......  4 years in UC, 2 years in Shaker, 4 years downtown but still east of the river.....  Honestly, though, Ohio City/Tremont/Detroit Shoreway/Lakewood/Rocky River all feel like thy belong on the eastside.  Once you get past those hoods, it's much more Midwestern strip mall central.

Why do I get the feeling "Rumble" from West Side Story should be playing in the background... hehe

 

To rockandroller:

Honestly, I'd really like a house that was built around 1900-1920.  I will settle for a slightly newer one, but that is my ideal.  I like them for he same reason that I still prefer bound paper books... you're touching what others have touched, sitting where others have sat, loving what others have loved.  It's a very visceral connection to the past.

 

To MyTwoSense:

I currently live in New Mexico.  I know how to drive on ice though... my dad grew up in Washington and he taught me.  I haven't had experience with more than 8" or so of snow at a time though.  (Raised in Hawaii, went to college in CA, moved to NM from there.)  I'm hoping that "old money" has lots of friendly faces and little kids in Shaker Square... hehe.  And isn't going to complain about chickens.  That is, if I move to Shaker Square.

 

To AJ93:

LoL!  Yeah, I have lots of experience with that... even though I don't have kids of my own yet.  My sibs are all 7-10yrs younger than I am (the last three are basically triplets) so I got to help with lots of baby rearing.

 

To jjames0408:

I will order that book asap!  I grew up in an area that was predominately non-white and had lots of racism (against whites) so it was really tough begin blond haired and blue eyed.  I am hoping for somewhere that has a good mixture and isn't predominately anything.  However, if I have to settle since I'm moon-glow pale my kids will probably be too and I'd like them not to have the same experience I did growing up (getting beat up or picked on because you're white sucks).  All but one of my sibs are mixed race (though sadly only one was the correct mix to fit in well where we grew up) and I'd like for them and their children to be able to visit and feel really comfortable.  My sister lives in a very racist town right now and I worry for her (she's 19... the HS football team has been in the local news for making racist comments at games, ugh).  I'll look at "Old Brooklyn" too.  I need to keep referring to maps of the districts though because they all seem to just feed into one another.

 

To KJP:

You are awesome!  I am a very very visual person and those maps are wonderful!  Thank you!  I had not heard of empty houses being called blight before being on this board... and we have lots of them here.  That's actually how I'm currently making part of my income; fixing up and either renting or reselling houses that were boarded up and unused.  The fact that Cleveland seems to be trying to fix their "blighted" area speaks highly of the real estate market there.

Those new houses are cute and they would be fine to live in, I'm sure, but they don't have quite the same feel as those that have been around for 100yrs.  I have nothing against new construction and it's possible I might end up in a newer home but it's not really what I am looking for at this time.

 

 

 

 

Oh, here's an important question... I love thrift stores, where are most of the thrift stores (or the best ones) located?  (Best = cheap and fair quality... but mostly cheap.  I'm talking about like 4/$1 books, $10 bookcases, etc.)  I will probably be replacing a lot of items like sofas, book cases, etc that I don't want to pay to transport up there so I need to know about where I can get that kind of thing when I get up there.  I also like to thrift shop for cooking items and books too.  (MTS may decide now that Shaker Square would NOT like "my kind" hehe.)  Or maybe good auction houses?  Is that common in Cleveland?

Haha...you are out of control MTS.

Lol, where the heck did you find that? 

 

And I guess I've technically been an eastsider for 10 years......  4 years in UC, 2 years in Shaker, 4 years downtown but still east of the river.....  Honestly, though, Ohio City/Tremont/Detroit Shoreway/Lakewood/Rocky River all feel like thy belong on the eastside.  Once you get past those hoods, it's much more Midwestern strip mall central.

 

Now you kids know I have a "photo" response for almost every occasion!  HA!

 

I'll give you that the properties in Rocky River, could fit into the heights.  As could the Waterfront of Lakewood.  But as someone who is a bit older and has seen Tremont, Ohio City and Detroit-Shoreway change.  They are uniquely westside - the properties and people and should therefore stay on the westside.

Why do I get the feeling "Rumble" from West Side Story should be playing in the background... hehe

 

To rockandroller:

Honestly, I'd really like a house that was built around 1900-1920.  I will settle for a slightly newer one, but that is my ideal.  I like them for he same reason that I still prefer bound paper books... you're touching what others have touched, sitting where others have sat, loving what others have loved.  It's a very visceral connection to the past.

 

To MyTwoSense:

I currently live in New Mexico.  I know how to drive on ice though... my dad grew up in Washington and he taught me.  I haven't had experience with more than 8" or so of snow at a time though.  (Raised in Hawaii, went to college in CA, moved to NM from there.)  I'm hoping that "old money" has lots of friendly faces and little kids in Shaker Square... hehe.  And isn't going to complain about chickens.  That is, if I move to Shaker Square.

 

To AJ93:

LoL!  Yeah, I have lots of experience with that... even though I don't have kids of my own yet.  My sibs are all 7-10yrs younger than I am (the last three are basically triplets) so I got to help with lots of baby rearing.

 

To jjames0408:

I will order that book asap!  I grew up in an area that was predominately non-white and had lots of racism (against whites) so it was really tough begin blond haired and blue eyed.  I am hoping for somewhere that has a good mixture and isn't predominately anything.  However, if I have to settle since I'm moon-glow pale my kids will probably be too and I'd like them not to have the same experience I did growing up (getting beat up or picked on because you're white sucks).  All but one of my sibs are mixed race (though sadly only one was the correct mix to fit in well where we grew up) and I'd like for them and their children to be able to visit and feel really comfortable.  My sister lives in a very racist town right now and I worry for her (she's 19... the HS football team has been in the local news for making racist comments at games, ugh).  I'll look at "Old Brooklyn" too.  I need to keep referring to maps of the districts though because they all seem to just feed into one another.

 

To KJP:

You are awesome!  I am a very very visual person and those maps are wonderful!  Thank you!  I had not heard of empty houses being called blight before being on this board... and we have lots of them here.  That's actually how I'm currently making part of my income; fixing up and either renting or reselling houses that were boarded up and unused.  The fact that Cleveland seems to be trying to fix their "blighted" area speaks highly of the real estate market there.

Those new houses are cute and they would be fine to live in, I'm sure, but they don't have quite the same feel as those that have been around for 100yrs.  I have nothing against new construction and it's possible I might end up in a newer home but it's not really what I am looking for at this time.

 

 

 

 

Oh, here's an important question... I love thrift stores, where are most of the thrift stores (or the best ones) located?  (Best = cheap and fair quality... but mostly cheap.  I'm talking about like 4/$1 books, $10 bookcases, etc.)  I will probably be replacing a lot of items like sofas, book cases, etc that I don't want to pay to transport up there so I need to know about where I can get that kind of thing when I get up there.  I also like to thrift shop for cooking items and books too.  (MTS may decide now that Shaker Square would NOT like "my kind" hehe.)  Or maybe good auction houses?  Is that common in Cleveland?

 

Dahling.....No fights here.  As you can see we're all very passionate about our neighborhoods!  And its undeniable that I reside in the best one!

 

 

New Mexico, where?  You're Blonde with blue eyes??  #firstworldproblems  LOL  If you fear your kids will be pale, they have procedures to fix that.  If not, there is always the sun!

 

Im glad you can drive in snow as February is the worst weather month.  However, if you live on Shaker Square you don't need to drive as the train is right in the middle of the neighborhood!

 

Yes, shaker square is welcoming of all.  Even your fowl.  Just be kind and drop off brown eggs every few days.

 

Now onto thrift shopping.  I'm UrbanOhio's number one shopper.  I can blink and buy.  However, I love to thrift show and dumpster dive.  We have good thrift stores and Amish country.

I haven't had experience with more than 8" or so of snow at a time though.

 

If you've seen 8" of snow and not just on ski trip, then Cleveland will not be a problem for you.

If you like houses that old, you're probably not going to find one with an attached garage unless someone got a variance to build one on at some point, which is rare but not unheard of. I think Lakewood has a lot of what you will be looking for. Lakewood Home Furnishings would be a good place for you to shop, and we have Goodwill locations in several areas that have a ton of stuff. In Middleburg Hts where I live, we have a good Salvation Army location that has a lot of stuff, and a Goodwill down the street just over the Parma Heights border. Lakewood is very diverse - there are a lot of Arabic families who have settled in Lakewood and there are a lot of gays, young to middle aged professionals, families and elderly (my Mom included). I would say there are more African Americans in Shaker than in Lakewood, but Lakewood has more people of Arabic descent.

To MyTwoSense:

My hair is more light brown now than blond but when I lived in Hawaii and was out in the sun swimming and surfing all the time it was blond (my skin has two shades: moon-glow and boiled lobster).  It was an issue growing up in Hawaii.  Haoles are not well liked by many of the locals and there are places where you can't go if you're white.  You also get bullied at school... both regular bullying and something called "ijime" which is where the whole school (including teachers) do it too.  It sucks.

 

I live in Roswell, New Mexico (no alien jokes please, that is NOT my favorite feature of this town).  It doesn't snow often, usually not more than 2-3" at a time.  We had a (comparatively) big storm last year that gave us about 8" which stuck around for a week or so.  People here have exactly zero sense when it comes to driving in ice or snow though.  They try to drive the same as if it was dry and sunny out... breaking 5' before a light, turning corners sharply, etc.  I'm more scared of the other drivers than of the ice really.

 

I love the pictures =)  That is beautiful!  I've actually never ridden a train, so that would be fun (at least the first few times, haha).  With 8+ laying birds that'd be 8 eggs or so a day so I am sure I'd have more than enough for everyone in the neighborhood to PLEASE TAKE SOME! LoL!

 

To Loretto:

Yeah, it's normally not that much but the 8" didn't bother me either.  Although I did regret my normal one mile jog about half way into it, hehe... so did my dog for that matter.

 

To rockandroller:

Cool, I like the Salvation Army here best... our Goodwill thinks it is a consignment store and wants to sell dresses for $25, blah.  I am a big time book horder (I probably have 1000+ books that I just can't part with and about 50 that I've either just finished reading or will read soon).  I get new books from the thrift store at least once a week (and they get the ones I don't feel I need to keep or pass on to friends).

 

Ooo... on that topic... are the libraries good in Cleveland?  How about book clubs/writing groups?  I tried to start up something for NaNoWriMo last year but no one here was interested really.

 

I have four sibs... one looks like me but with green eyes, one is African-Asian-Caucasian, one is Caucasian-African (but light), one is Asian-Caucasian.  No idea what their kids look like though. The boys still say they hate kids and won't have any, hehe.  One sister wants to adopt and the other is married but no kids yet.  I am happy with all races (I work with lots of minorities and at-risk youth) but I know what it's like to live in an area where racism is considered normal and where your race (and your siblings') is discriminated against.  If I'm going to settle somewhere I don't want to pick a place where that's going to be a huge issue.  I also might foster in the future and don't want any foster kids to have a harder time than necessary.

Our downtown cleveland library is actually fabulous. I work downtown very close to the library and go there about once a week. The suburbs all have good libraries and our county library system also has nice libraries. I don't like book clubs and I'm not much of a group person, but there are a lot of writers here. I usually know at least 3 people that attempt NaNoWriMo each year, myself included (I am a writer, and KJP is a professional journalist).

To rockandroller: 

What do you write?  Just curious.  I'm by no means a professional, I just do it for fun.  I don't know what "real" book clubs are like but I have a few friends that I get together with and we all trade books and talk about the ones we've read.

I work in the marketing department of a law firm. I wrote proposals (like grants) and general marketing materials like website copy, brochures, press releases, etc. I am also a published freelance writer; I write primarily about entertainment- and food-related topics.

I work in the marketing department of a law firm.

 

Don't take this the wrong way R and R but I think John Marshall is rolling over in his grave :wink:

Brightdreams, you're blond with blue eyes?? You're not married, are you? :)

 

And you have not seen more than 8" of snow? Awesome. Cleveland is going to be a treat for you! I love snowstorms!! These photos were taken from the roof of my building here in Lakewood a few years ago......

 

 

 

 

 

And then in March 2008, we had a pretty nasty blizzard less than a week before one of my trips to England. These three were taken the day after the storm -- they do clean up the snow pretty fast....

 

 

 

 

But the clean-up didn't go very smoothly. This snowplow got stuck in the alley behind my building and had to be rescued by this front-end loader. This photo got published in the paper I write for....

 

 

 

During the storm. Many people walked to the stores in the middle of seven-lane wide Clifton Boulevard because their cars were stuck in the snow....

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am old enough to remember the Blizzard of 1978 (I was 11) which hit this area with 6-12 inches of snow and 80-100 mph winds. It was dubbed the White Hurricane....

 

 

 

 

Don't let KJP scare you too much, those are extreme cases. :)

oh god, just after that most epic blizzard we walked out on a frozen lake erie so far out you could not see the shoreline. there were frozen waves several feet high with frozen fish stuck in them. thank god there was a thin layer of snow out there so we could follow our footsteps back until we could see the shore again. stupid, stupid thing to do, i dk how i survived my youth lol!

 

 

To KJP:

Those are some fantastic pictures!  They put my pics of last year's "big snow" to shame.  I don't know if I'd be daring enough to walk to the store in that sort of weather... that's what well stocked pantries are for!  Haha!  Looks like good cocoa and soup weather though.

 

To jam40jeff:

One hopes!  I do like snow.  I think I'm the only adult who still squeals with delight over big fat flakes.  I loved making snow animals last year too (my sister made a mermaid so to follow the theme I did a snow turtle and a snow fish).

 

To mrnyc:

Wow... I would say that'd be an awesome story to tell your kids but you might not want to encourage similar behavior, haha!  I've actually never been on a frozen pond or river, I take it that it'd be easy to lose your way (I have been out in the ocean far enough not to be able to see the shore, similar idea I would guess).  I didn't know that the waves would freeze into a wave shape... for some reason I assumed everything would freeze flat.

I love going for a walk in snow storms. As long as you're dressed properly, you can walk through anything. It does help to live within walking distance of basic services, which was also useful during the big blackout of 2003. It was downright dangerous to drive, and took a long time with traffic backed up at all intersections. Even though the lights were out in the grocery store near my house, the cash registers were still working on battery backup power. After snowstorms and the blackout, I will never live more than 20 minutes walk from basic services. Always prepare for the worst, then sit back and enjoy it. :)

 

I would never walk out onto Lake Erie nor would I tell a kid about it until they were at least 30 years old!

And then in March 2008, we had a pretty nasty blizzard less than a week before one of my trips to England. These three were taken the day after the storm -- they do clean up the snow pretty fast....

I'll never ever forget that snowstorm. My wife was past 9 months pregnant and started having contractions and so I spent the entire snow storm shoveling the drive every half hour in case we had to leave. I'm getting cold just thinking about it.

I love going for a walk in snow storms. As long as you're dressed properly, you can walk through anything. It does help to live within walking distance of basic services, which was also useful during the big blackout of 2003. It was downright dangerous to drive, and took a long time with traffic backed up at all intersections. Even though the lights were out in the grocery store near my house, the cash registers were still working on battery backup power. After snowstorms and the blackout, I will never live more than 20 minutes walk from basic services. Always prepare for the worst, then sit back and enjoy it. :)

 

I would never walk out onto Lake Erie nor would I tell a kid about it until they were at least 30 years old!

 

I couldn't agree more!

To KJP:

It reminds me of the Little House on the Prairie series where they had a string tied from the house to the barn lest they get lost in the blizzard.  I think there would have to be something more important than milk and cookies for me to want to go out in a blizzard.  Plus, if you have a well stocked pantry you can substitute and make almost anything... even apple pie without the apples!  haha!  (In addition to being the crazy chicken lady, I also cook as a hobby.)  I do agree about being close though... we lived a good 45mins from the main city in Hawaii and it was always a hassle if you needed to get something or the kids' events didn't run consecutively (I call my siblings "the kids"... and the youngest three are still "the little kids" at 19... yes, yes, I was mini-mom.  I still call them and harass them about school and such.).

 

Here are "the kids":

 

(And boy are they lucky, I have much more embarrassing pictures of them, hehe.)

 

Oh, and not to be totally outdone:

Snow in New Mexico:

 

But sunsets are more worth writing home about than the snow:

 

(That's my youngest brother in the picture, by the way.)

 

 

To Keith:

Yikes!  That sounds miserable... for both of you.  Shoveling is not something I am looking forward to.  Especially in a situation like that!

Sunsets eh?  not to throw gasoline back onto the fire, but us over here in Detroit-Shoreway enjoy nice sunsets over the lake most spring/summer/fall days. Juuust Sayin'  #Westsidebestside.

Sunsets eh?  not to throw gasoline back onto the fire, but us over here in Detroit-Shoreway enjoy nice sunsets over the lake most spring/summer/fall days. Juuust Sayin'  #Westsidebestside.

I'd give you guys sunrises, but sunsets? No, those belong to the east side.

Sunsets eh?  not to throw gasoline back onto the fire, but us over here in Detroit-Shoreway enjoy nice sunsets over the lake most spring/summer/fall days. Juuust Sayin'  #Westsidebestside.

 

 

To KJP:

It reminds me of the Little House on the Prairie series where they had a string tied from the house to the barn lest they get lost in the blizzard. 

 

I remember that episode. My sister was a Little House fan. I never have experienced a blizzard like that, but the Blizzard of '78 was close. My oldest brother had an experience like that with the Blizzard of '78 when he lived in western Ohio where the landscape is flatter and the wind blows stronger. Their house lost power overnight and they woke to find it was 28 degrees inside. Their baby girl Jessica was blue from the cold. He couldn't get his car out, so he called a friend with a snowmobile, wrapped his daughter in blankets, and the friend took them to the hospital. Jessica has children of her own today. :)

 

OK, back to helping you find a home! If sunsets mean a lot to you, here's some pictures of recent sunsets. I'm somewhat limited in my photos of sunsets because my fifth-floor view faces east, so I have to get to other locations to take photos of them. And west-side sunsets are great, especially at Edgewater/Wendy Park, Rocky River Park, Bradstreets Landing (read its history here http://ech.case.edu/ech-cgi/article.pl?id=BD), and Huntington Beach.

 

I'll post more pictures, but here is a sunset view I shot from my balcony a few weeks ago. It's only a sunset view because of the setting sun behind me was illuminating the tops of these two thunderstorms that were about 30 miles east of Cleveland, heading into Pennsylvania....

 

Wouldn't the best sunsets be in the west and the best sunrises be in the east?  =)

 

 

To surfohio:

That is truly beautiful!  What a wonderful picture!  I have to ask about your name... is it actually possible to surf in Ohio?  I wouldn't think there'd be large enough waves.  (Then I read KJP's link.  Okay.  So you all have tsunamis apparently.  Maybe I wanna live farther away from the water than I thought!)

 

To KJP:

I was actually thinking of the book series... I keep forgetting they made it into a TV series too.  The books played heavily into my childhood so that is what I remember.  Glad I won't need to set up a tie-line to my detached garage though!  And that is a hair-raising story!  I am glad your niece is okay.  Does your whole family live in Ohio?

I am not stuck on sunsets.  A view of something other than just other houses would be nice but probably isn't in my price range, which is okay.  I can look at scenery somewhere else and then go home.  I think someplace friendly would be next on my list (after chickens and good schools and transportation/walkability).  Oh, and I read the linked story.  I did not realize the lake had "surge waves" (sounds like a tsunami to me)... here I thought lakes were safe!

 

 

You all have given me lots of good help and places to look at when I visit, thanks everyone =)

There is a perfect sunset on clear evenings over Lake Erie from the west side of town.  The sun rises over the city when viewing from the D-S neighborhood.

To surfohio:

That is truly beautiful!  What a wonderful picture!  I have to ask about your name... is it actually possible to surf in Ohio?  I wouldn't think there'd be large enough waves.  (Then I read KJP's link.  Okay.  So you all have tsunamis apparently.  Maybe I wanna live farther away from the water than I thought!)

 

We get waves! Mostly in Fall and Winter. No it's not the North Shore by any stretch, but you'll find surfers from all over the world, including Hawaii, who have been relocated here for work or family. Shameless self promotion alert: I made a documentary about the surfing culture here in Ohio called Out of Place. Please check it at www.outofplacemovie.com.

 

If you splurge for a good 5 mil. wetsuit you can surf all through the winter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah!  True.  Another great feature of Detroit-Shoreway. less than a mile via car or bike to go surfing at Edgewater. 

To surfohio:

That is pretty cool!  Many millions of years ago, when I was very young, I used to be a boogie boarder.  I never could quite master surfing though.  But both of my brothers are surfers and snow boarders (they are much better at sports than I am).

 

To BelievelandD1:

Actually, being near enough to regularly visit a "beach" was one of the reasons I picked Cleveland over some other cities.  I grew up in Hawaii and California and one of the things I miss terribly living in New Mexico is being close to water.

To surfohio:

That is pretty cool!  Many millions of years ago, when I was very young, I used to be a boogie boarder.  I never could quite master surfing though.  But both of my brothers are surfers and snow boarders (they are much better at sports than I am).

 

To BelievelandD1:

Actually, being near enough to regularly visit a "beach" was one of the reasons I picked Cleveland over some other cities.  I grew up in Hawaii and California and one of the things I miss terribly living in New Mexico is being close to water.

 

Surfing is admittedly tough. This is actually the biggest growing sport here (and just about everywhere else)  -  Stand Up Paddleboarding. It's perfect for Lake Erie, which is flat most of the time. If there are no waves, no problem, you have this cool paddle!

 

I can't recommend a "SUP board" enough. I'm with you, I grew up on both oceans and hate feeling landlocked. So I try to get out on the water as much as possible. With SUP-ing, all it takes is a little bit of practice and you're doing it in no time. Here's the local shop, it's in Rocky River: 

 

http://nalusup.com/

Lol, where the heck did you find that? 

 

And I guess I've technically been an eastsider for 10 years......  4 years in UC, 2 years in Shaker, 4 years downtown but still east of the river.....  Honestly, though, Ohio City/Tremont/Detroit Shoreway/Lakewood/Rocky River all feel like thy belong on the eastside.  Once you get past those hoods, it's much more Midwestern strip mall central.

 

 

I agree!  Anything farther West or SW of Ohio City/Tremont/Detroit Shoreway/Lakewood/Rocky River are WAY too strip mall central.  I can't say I really like Rocky River all that much, and there's not affordable homes there.

 

And, in response to an earlier post - the drive to University Circle from Chesterland is about 10 miles, but it does take about 25 minutes.  (Wouldn't go thru Beachwood - too far south).  These FAR east rural-suburbs are rather non-diverse, but the people are mostly very nice and accepting.  There's not many issues with zoning, so there's lots of freedom to raise whatever animals you please, etc., but you're just not gonna be walking anywhere.

 

I stick with my recommendations from earlier - Ohio City/Tremont/Detroit Shoreway, Shaker Square or Shaker Hts. (area near Shaker Lakes is Beautiful, but kinda Expensive), carefully Cleveland Hts (but schools stink), or maybe Chagrin Falls (some REAL nice & fairly priced homes right now, but not much diversity).

On the Cleveland Metro Schools - report just came out today that there's been NO improvement in the district and the Cleveland Metro Schools will likely be in Emergency status when the next report comes out.  Lots depend on a large levy on the ballot this Nov., but passage is iffy at best. 

 

RE: the link you posted to a home on Keswick - it's too close the the Buckeye neighborhood for my tastes.  Buckeye used to be (40+ years ago) a very ethnic Hungarian & East European neighborhood, but the area has been very rough over the past 20 years or so.  Lots of crime.  That's reflected in the $44k price tag on that house.  This street might not be too bad, but I'd stick north or farther east of here.

 

There is quite an East vs. West thing, but it's a pretty benign teasing.  The museums are east side.  Many strip malls on west side.  :wink:

Hope you're getting some good info here.  Good luck!!

 

 

And then in March 2008, we had a pretty nasty blizzard less than a week before one of my trips to England. These three were taken the day after the storm -- they do clean up the snow pretty fast....

 

 

I am old enough to remember the Blizzard of 1978 (I was 11) which hit this area with 6-12 inches of snow and 80-100 mph winds. It was dubbed the White Hurricane....

 

 

March 2008:  Here's a few pics from 2008, at our (then) home in Cleveland Hts.  Couldn't get down the street that day. 

 

Then, we had an ice storm a few days later.

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Then, re: 1978 Blizzard - Remember these shirts?  https://www.etsy.com/transaction/55265382

 

 

BTW, I'm pretty that ice storm hit several days BEFORE the 2008 blizzard (I believe the ice storm was on a Tuesday, and the blizzard hit on the following Friday night-Saturday). Several days after the blizzard I was on a plane to England. Here are pictures of that ice storm I shot at Edgewater Park....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I know you're ragging on us west-siders (I'm a reformed east-sider) for having strip malls. That's on the way-west side, like Toledo! Here's what I have around me in my Lakewood neighborhood and nearby....

 

 

 

 

 

To surfohio:

That stand up paddleboarding actually looks pretty cool.  I am not sure if I have the... er... natual ability for that kind of thing but it could be fun to try =)

 

To Rlucky:

Thank you for the advice!  And those pictures are neat.  That's quite a bit more snow than I think I've ever seen in person.

 

Maybe I am looking in the wrong area but the houses in Detroit-Shoreway seem to be much more distressed than even the one on Keswick.  (And I think the price also reflects the need to re-plumb due to theft of copper.)  Also the realtors for Detroit-Shoreway are more lazy, haha.  They are taking pictures of houses that are filled with clothes and junk.  One of the reasons I like the house on Keswick (which I am sure will sell before I ever move to Cleveland, so it's all window shopping at this point) is that it is in the Shaker Heights school district (so good schools) but in Cleveland (so I can have chickens).  I will look farther north though.

 

It's hard for me to tell what commute times would be like for the places which are farther east or west.  For instance, I've read that Solon schools are pretty good but I don't know what commute times are really like.  Also, I really would like to have that walkability feature if possible.  It somewhat defeats the whole sustainability thing if I am using oodles of gas all the time to commute.  It's doable, don't get me wrong, it's just less desirable.

 

 

To KJP:

I am quite envious of these trips to England you keep talking about!  And again, wonderful pictures!  I especially like the ones with what I believe is a lighthouse in the background.  If I could live somewhere with a view of the water you'd have me sold.  I think that is unlikely though. 

 

 

 

On a different note, I have checked the job market and it does appear that there is a need for teachers in Cleveland and the surrounding area.  Does anyone know if it is hard to secure one of these jobs?  I have some teaching experience but not much (and with a non-traditional school).  Is there more need in a certain area (that may not be apparent just by looking at job listings or that always seems to need educators)?  That might help me narrow down housing as well since the closer to work (while remaining within the other parameters) the better.