Nobody that had a voice in the mainstream media of the '90s and early 2000s could see or was willing to talk about any possible downsides of the internet except maybe obesity and poor socialization.

I remember ordering thousands of dollars worth of photo equipment in the late 90s and paying zero sales tax.  Local shops couldn't hope to compete. 

 

I remember when online ordering began for B&H Camera in New York circa 1997, you simply emailed them your credit card number and expiration date.  You didn't even have the option to email them the first eight digits and text them the second eight because text messaging didn't exist yet. 

^ That's insane. Email is so insecure.

Just now, Robuu said:

^ That's insane. Email is so insecure.

 

There was no autofill form or anything.  It was like, the catalog told you to email Chuck in shipping the numbers out of the catalog with your choice of shipping via UPS or USPS, then he sent you a total, and then you emailed him your cc# and the expiration date.  The package showed up 3-4 days later, unless there was a Jewish holiday. 

Crown Equipment plans massive local expansion, hundreds of new jobs expected

 

Still a strong believer that at least in the case of western Ohio, hard working rural communities surely are not "dying".  563 jobs in Auglaize County is like 5,000+ in one of our 3-C city's......IMO at least.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2018/10/29/crown-equipment-plans-massive-localexpansion.html?fbclid=IwAR2SSywhP6182gme08DAecPz98p3vBJDIrwC1dx6SA0y4vK1V6meEL_SxGw

On 10/12/2018 at 2:30 PM, KJP said:

 

That's actually somewhat routine. That's one of the extremities of the Metro North Commuter rail district. Just across the river, there's multiple daily commuter buses from New Paltz (site of SUNY campus) to NYC. And then there's the commuter buses from Scranton, PA to NYC....

 

While I don't see the extent of that happening anytime soon, consider these two maps I made nine years ago, comparing Ohio's bus and Amtrak network from 1979 to 2009. Most of the loss of the intercity bus network came as a result of bus de-regulation in 1980, urban sprawl and decline of small town populations. Today, most of the remaining intercity bus services run as expresses between medium/large cities, and even then the frequency of service is much less. While other states experienced similar losses in Greyhound, Trailways, etc. bus services, most larger states like New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Illinois and others subsidize rural intercity bus services to a far greater degree than Ohio does. Ohio's subsidized rural bus service is now called GoBus: https://ridegobus.com/

 

 

 

 

 

Where was the train station in Columbus by 1979?

^it was still the old Union Station on High St. 1979 was its last year

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Lost_Architecture/comments/7y8z01/union_station_columbus_ohio_18971979/

Ah, I though it was 1977.

 

9 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

 

 

 

 

Where was the train station in Columbus by 1979?

 

It was 1977. But after Union Station was closed and demolished, Amtrak continued serving Columbus until Sept. 30, 1979 using a modular station building at Fourth and Goodale. More:

http://www.columbusrailroads.com/Amtrak.htm

Oh, wow. I wonder how long that building lasted afterward.

Until 1985. It became a police precinct headquarters but was demolished for a higway interchange.

Edited November 9, 20186 yr by KJP

By the looks of things I figured I-670 ate it -- and it did.

Wow.  Almost as sad as Amtrak's station in Cincinnati back in the 80s, before Cardinal service moved back to Union Terminal. 

And like Cincinnati's River Road station, Amtrak  put it in a location where Columbus' only trains had to back in-and-out of it each night to serve it. At least in Cincinnati, its station was built on a route in which half of its trains didn't initially have to make reversing moves to serve it.

Edited November 9, 20186 yr by KJP

It started after World War II, when rural people came to the cities to work in the war industries.  

 

That's where  the suburbs came from.   Once the war was over, they wanted what they considered to be the best of both worlds.

 

And they had the numbers, clout, and skills to make it happen.

 

 

^As we all know, that's the 8am Paul Harvey teaser rather than the 5pm Rest of the Story.

About a month late to contributing to this conversation, but it's worth jumping in as I'm interested in the general health of rural Ohio.

I was born and went to high school in Wilmington, Ohio and grew up 20 miles south in the tiny (but historically mighty) village of St. Martin in Brown County. Parents taught at schools in both Fayetteville and Wilmington and I grew up sort of claiming a large swath of Clermont, Brown, Clinton, and Highland Counties the "community I was raised in". 

 

That introduction aside, I can't disagree that drugs are playing a role in life there. Many people who had labor intensive jobs getting addicted to pain pills and ramping up from there and blah blah blah yes, read Hillbilly Elegy. It does give good insight to what seems to be happening out in the sticks of Ohio. I'll share my perspective, which isn't as drug laced and more positive.

 

Wilmington losing DHL was a gigantic blow to the region. 15,000 jobs gone/sent to Erlanger is, as some news report at the time "the economic equivalent of Hurricane Katrina without any of the physical damage." This didn't really reflect with a gigantic population loss as I think people in this area are fiercely committed to the land they are "from" which can be seen in this awesome map from the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/19/upshot/facebook-county-friendships.html That commitment perseveres through good times and bad as if it were a covenant for the non-college bound resident (or the college-bound resident who attends Wilmington College).  Considering the bad times, which really started to hit in 2008 on the heels of DHL's departure from the city, what was the city's reaction? 

 

Well, what started with two young people who were starting their Peace Corp service, realizing their hometown had just been hit by a disaster, returning to the city to start an economic/development think tank, morphing it into one of the early Buy Local movements of the late 00's, and getting draft beer at the General Denver (Wilmington's version of the Golden Lamb) has turned into a bit of a revival of the town in a new economic age. Not to suggest that things are going as good as they were in 2007 when there was zero vacancy in the historic downtown core and the city was preparing to expand their street grid by over 100 acres, but there is an air of positivity, at least among the people who are working on "saving" the town.

 

What does this positivity look like? The metric I'll use is engagement of youth. As of 2017, the Wilmington City Council is majority millennial. https://www.wnewsj.com/news/59008/millennials-step-up-city-looks-to-next-generation-of-leaders Is this a useful metric? I don't know... but it is something other than drug overdose deaths and population.

 

 

Edited November 14, 20186 yr by Chas Wiederhold

A pretty good read and again, comparing and contrasting two very different stories of rural Ohio.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/news/erry-2018/11/b4c48a93342687/a-tale-of-two-economies-mercer.html

2 hours ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

About a month late to contributing to this conversation, but it's worth jumping in as I'm interested in the general health of rural Ohio.

I was born and went to high school in Wilmington, Ohio and grew up 20 miles south in the tiny (but historically mighty) village of St. Martin in Brown County. Parents taught at schools in both Fayetteville and Wilmington and I grew up sort of claiming a large swath of Clermont, Brown, Clinton, and Highland Counties the "community I was raised in". 

 

That introduction aside, I can't disagree that drugs are playing a role in life there. Many people who had labor intensive jobs getting addicted to pain pills and ramping up from there and blah blah blah yes, read Hillbilly Elegy. It does give good insight to what seems to be happening out in the sticks of Ohio. I'll share my perspective, which isn't as drug laced and more positive.

 

Wilmington losing DHL was a gigantic blow to the region. 15,000 jobs gone/sent to Erlanger is, as some news report at the time "the economic equivalent of Hurricane Katrina without any of the physical damage." This didn't really reflect with a gigantic population loss as I think people in this area are fiercely committed to the land they are "from" which can be seen in this awesome map from the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/19/upshot/facebook-county-friendships.html That commitment perseveres through good times and bad as if it were a covenant for the non-college bound resident (or the college-bound resident who attends Wilmington College).  Considering the bad times, which really started to hit in 2008 on the heels of DHL's departure from the city, what was the city's reaction? 

 

Well, what started with two young people who were starting their Peace Corp service, realizing their hometown had just been hit by a disaster, returning to the city to start an economic/development think tank, morphing it into one of the early Buy Local movements of the late 00's, and getting draft beer at the General Denver (Wilmington's version of the Golden Lamb) has turned into a bit of a revival of the town in a new economic age. Not to suggest that things are going as good as they were in 2007 when there was zero vacancy in the historic downtown core and the city was preparing to expand their street grid by over 100 acres, but there is an air of positivity, at least among the people who are working on "saving" the town.

 

What does this positivity look like? The metric I'll use is engagement of youth. As of 2017, the Wilmington City Council is majority millennial. https://www.wnewsj.com/news/59008/millennials-step-up-city-looks-to-next-generation-of-leaders Is this a useful metric? I don't know... but it is something other than drug overdose deaths and population.

 

 

 

I appreciate your insights. How long was DHL even in Wilmington, though? Weren't they there just a few years before coming back to CVG? When they did come to Wilmington, did the city see a big rise in new housing construction, or did more people simply make the long commute? I went to grade school with a couple kids who lived in Wilmington, which I thought was absolutely incredible, but I guess demonstrates that the distance isn't seen as being so huge for some people.

 

I don't think rural Ohio is fated to die, and I can think of a few examples of small towns in the region that are very successful. Yellow Springs and Madison, Indiana immediately come to mind. Yellow Springs is progressive and surprisingly urbane for being such a small town. Madison is very well preserved, and has a charming historic town center with an active Main Street. Both have fantastic state parks nearby, which these towns tout very well. The success of these towns tells me that in order for rural areas/small towns to be successful in 2018, they have to distinguish themselves and carve a niche out that is appealing to people. Your average small town is hopelessly conservative, with a Walmart built at the edge of town that has largely killed the traditional business district. Historic buildings are torn down and replaced with parking lots, and the towns cease to possess whatever charm they once had. The average small town can't do much to lure a big company in, or radically change the local economy. They can, however, work to institute Main Street type programs downtown. Encourage small businesses to open and encourage entrepreneurship among the local populace. Embrace new blood and new ideas. Welcome everyone. Program public spaces in the town centers. Preserve and enhance the natural beauty that surrounds the towns. If more rural communities acted like Yellow Springs or Madison, I think more young people would be inclined to stay and invest in their futures. Just my 2 cents.

I don't think that they were there for more than five years.  DHL at CVG burns through thousands of employees per year.  Their turnover rate is 300%.  They have about 900 people show up every night at 11pm and they work until 8am.  It's a rough job.  I know about five people who have worked down there.  Most only tolerate it for a few months. 

That kind of work is ALWAYS available because it sucks. Most people would rather cut their income in half rather than put up with it.

1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

That kind of work is ALWAYS available because it sucks. Most people would rather cut their income in half rather than put up with it.

 

 

What's crazy is to think if DHL hadn't moved back to CVG, Cincinnati might not have gotten the Prime Air Hub.  Hard to imagine DHL's fleet of 28 jets being joined by Amazon's 100 in tiny Wilmington. 

 

DHL does one flight per day to and from each U.S. airport.  In ten years Amazon's going to be doing 2 shipments per day between Cincinnati and most other U.S. and Canadian cities.  Maybe 3 jets per day to and from LA and New York. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What it is important to note about the economic tragedy of DHL is that the Airpark has been an important part of the economy in Wilmington for almost (9/10ths) a century. The Airpark was the Clinton County Air Force Base before it was used industrially. The Air Force got their start there in 1929. It was decommissioned in 1972 and the Airpark became home to Midwest Air, which merged with Airborne Express in 1980 and then merged with DHL to form ABX Air in 2003. If you understand the story this way, you can see that DHL did not just get into their groove in 2003 and hire enough people to create 15,000 jobs within a rural economy. They sort of hosted themselves within an American company, became their largest customer, and then took their business elsewhere leaving the shell of Airborne Express without any customers or prospects. I don't have a chart of how many people since 1929 were working at the Airpark, but I can say, anecdotally,  that many multi-generation Wilmington families, some working multiple generations for the Airpark, lost their good paying jobs in 2008. This was not just a sorting center. It was/is a logistics and fleet maintenance hub.

 

As I understand it from others, the facility has been reconsidered to purposefully NOT accept a large company and turn Wilmington into a "company town" again. That's an economic gamble, too, however the thought process in the aforementioned millennial uprising that tends toward localism being: Wilmington does not want to be a gigantic city. It wants to be a great city. And if that means filling up the air park with dozens of small businesses instead of one large business, thereby increasing the likelihood of local dollars staying local and lower impact when a business leaves, then it is a gamble worth taking.

And to comment about a rush of homebuilding or business building as a result of the Airpark's robust economic presence in the city, just look at the city grid. You can see that it has had a development in most major urban typological growths. The DHL announcement killed a major development project (for "tiny" Wilmington as Meck says) called "Marine Meadows" which was a 100 acre housing development on the northeast corner of town which would have kept anywhere from 400-800 people in the city, rather than bussing them in from surrounding communities.

Edited November 15, 20186 yr by Chas Wiederhold

And on Amazon and their relationship to the region. If the Amazon Prime Hub didn't go to CVG it would have gone to Wilmington. Ohio government expressed their dismay of losing this to the state of Kentucky as Amazon had narrowed their options to CVG and ILN (the local airport code) AND Amazon had been operating at the Airpark for a year at this point with around 300 jobs created. So to add insult to an already injured small town economy, Amazon not only didn't bring 2,700 jobs to a town that already knew how to do that kind of stuff, they also moved 300 out that had been created. Numbers from this: https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/amazon-chooses-cvg-over-wilmington-airport-bring-thousands-jobs/CUI7NSJiPBi8pEirjxT0ML/

 

But, in the news Monday, Amazon is returning to Wilmington... or maybe just using it for overflow/flex space until they can build more capacity at CVG. You can read it on NPR or others, but most thoroughly in the local paper which needs your ad revenue more https://www.wnewsj.com/news/89146/breaking-amazon-announces-flights-sorting-facility-headed-for-wilmington

I have a former roommate who works in the office at DHL. He is the source of my figures -- that they're burning through upwards of 3,000 sorters per year. 

 

There is no way that Clinton County, pop. 40,000, or the surrounding counties, could possibly support the unending turnover.  There is no way that Amazon Prime Air, even if the majority of its workers work first and second shift, could possibly get enough people to commute from Cincinnati, Columbus, and Dayton.  There are already plenty of crap warehouse jobs in these cities going unfilled. 

 

I know for a fact that many workplaces around Cincinnati are now skipping drug testing because they simply can't get the bodies otherwise.  We had a major accident at my place earlier this year, the culprit failed the mandatory drug test, and they rehired him a week later.  Frankly, it's going to be a struggle for Amazon Prime Air to get the workforce it's going to need in Cincinnati if current economic conditions continue. 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if I agree with your dooming crystal ball predictions. 2700 jobs is just 18% of the jobs that existed at the airpark before DHL left. Depending on their circumstances a person in Wilmington may be able to live comfortably at a $15/hour working for Amazon. It might be difficult to imagine what might make a different cultural group (rural Americans) stay in one place instead of pursuing their distant, latent ambitions, but if folks are still similar to the people who I grew up knowing, a $15/hour high turn-over job in job opportunity rich Cincinnati could be a $15/hour steady job in badly underemployed Wilmington.

It's not just Smalltown Ohio. It's Smalltown USA that's getting left behind. And if your small town isn't next to a metro area or easily connected to one, don't forget to turn out the lights...

 

 

 

Why do we need to save it?  Honest question.  Rural America has a disproportionate chunk of the political power over where most people live, their lifestyles often depend on heavy subsidies (like farming), and infrastructure costs far more to build and maintain because there are fewer people to pay for it.  There aren't jobs and there isn't much economic incentive to create them there.  If anything, rural America is a net drain on the economy and the actions and money that it would take to reverse the decline would be high, if such a reversal could even happen.  I would much rather see those resources go to select places that would better utilize them.  For example, in Ohio, I would focus on all the big cities, but also places like Findlay, Athens, Wilmington, Marietta, etc. that already have decent bones and could become more focused for economic growth for their respective mini-regions.  I don't think it's wise trying to save every little town. 

Edited December 23, 20186 yr by jonoh81

9 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

Why do we need to save it?  Honest question.  Rural America has a disproportionate chunk of the political power over where most people live, their lifestyles often depend on heavy subsidies (like farming), and infrastructure costs far more to build and maintain because there are fewer people to pay for it.  There aren't jobs and there isn't much economic incentive to create them there.  If anything, rural America is a net drain on the economy and the actions and money that it would take to reverse the decline would be high, if such a reversal could even happen.  I would much rather see those resources go to select places that would better utilize them.  For example, in Ohio, I would focus on all the big cities, but also places like Findlay, Athens,  Marietta, etc. that already have decent bones and could become more focused for economic growth for their respective mini-regions.  I don't think it's wise trying to save every little town. 

 

I mostly agree, but maybe those towns used to help mitigate some of the rural politics.  Politics was less polarized when urbanity was more dispersed.

2 hours ago, 327 said:

 

I mostly agree, but maybe those towns used to help mitigate some of the rural politics.  Politics was less polarized when urbanity was more dispersed.

 

I don't think that's a function of the urban/rural divide.  I think that's a function of having divisive leaders for a good 30-40 years that have made political careers off of making them worse.  Rural voters may be resentful of being left behind, but that resentment is not exactly all organic.  Also, you could argue that there was less polarization when there was more dispersal, but society overall was much more regressed socially in a lot of ways than it is now.  I'm not sure I want to go back to that.  In fact, I know I wouldn't want to.

 

In any case, the point is that people shouldn't be left behind, but we have to do it in an intelligent way.  Trying to rebuild every village or town is a waste or resources.  It has to be more strategic than that.

I get the impression that you ‘re unlikely to see any sort of urban liberal values in any city much less than 100,000 people. In today’s paradigm of “happy motoring” you need much bigger cities to get any sort of true urban functionality, so rural cities and towns are more like disfunctional suburbs than anything, which are nearly as conservative as true rural settlements. They think they’re the backbone if the economy while being tremendous leeches in reality. 

Washington Post reported that out of big cities, big city suburbs, towns,  small town suburbs, or rural areas, the highest amount of people want to move to rural areas (27%)

But will they actually like it there long term?

16 hours ago, jjakucyk said:

I get the impression that you ‘re unlikely to see any sort of urban liberal values in any city much less than 100,000 people. In today’s paradigm of “happy motoring” you need much bigger cities to get any sort of true urban functionality, so rural cities and towns are more like disfunctional suburbs than anything, which are nearly as conservative as true rural settlements. They think they’re the backbone if the economy while being tremendous leeches in reality. 

 

I've lived in a couple of county seats half that size and didn't find this to be true.  Republicans might win such areas 60/40 but not 90/10.  I think it would be a big mistake to write them off any more than we already have-- it makes gerrymandering super duper easy.  "Urban liberal values" makes it sound like we only care about 2 or 3 counties per state.  That's a bad recipe for mass appeal.

17 hours ago, Boxtruffles said:

Washington Post reported that out of big cities, big city suburbs, towns,  small town suburbs, or rural areas, the highest amount of people want to move to rural areas (27%)

Link?

 

Also, I think that's different than saying that they *will* move.  Given how rural areas are in decline, more people are clearly leaving than going.  The people most likely to survive in rural areas are people who work from home or who are retirees given that there are few jobs out there for anyone.  Therefore, it's less about what people may want and more about what they can do economically.  Rural areas don't provide like cities do in most cases.  There's a similar dichotomy between people who want to live in the city, but also want good schools and affordable housing.  A lot of people end up in the suburbs because they can't afford a more urban location.  Economics matter more than desire.  Furthermore, I think that when people say "rural", they don't really mean 50 miles from the nearest town or city.  They mean low-density suburbia.  Even those who don't really like cities also don't necessarily want to be very far from the conveniences they provide. 

Edited December 24, 20186 yr by jonoh81

^Absolutely. Rural means many things to different people. The question also might be “Are you looking for a place further out from the city center because rent has become so much more expensive?”

You'd better be ready to learn a lot about wells, leach beds, furnaces, stoves, propane and fire if you want to survive in a rural area. You almost can't have a job anyway since rural lifestyles are full of time thieves.

1 hour ago, 327 said:

 

I've lived in a couple of county seats half that size and didn't find this to be true.  Republicans might win such areas 60/40 but not 90/10.  I think it would be a big mistake to write them off any more than we already have-- it makes gerrymandering super duper easy.  "Urban liberal values" makes it sound like we only care about 2 or 3 counties per state.  That's a bad recipe for mass appeal.

 

I also don't think we should write them off and that wasn't the intention of my post.  I'm saying that if you live in rural Putnam County, you only have so many options.  You either move out of the region, you move closer to a bigger city like Toledo, or you stay put and be resentful that your area is dying.  So to me it makes sense not to necessarily invest in Putnam County trying to save all those little places, but in neighboring Findlay that, while not exactly large, can become a mini-hub for NW Ohio and provide a 4th option.  To give an idea of what I mean, take a look at this ODOT region map.   Each mini-region can have 1 or 2 larger places to focus resources.  Every county is not going to have one, but they provide localized options for rural residents who don't necessarily want to move, but also need closer access to economic opportunities.

The criteria here should be a minimum of 20,000 people preferably and where possible, and be one of the largest existing places in their respective regions.

This would include:

Steubenville

Athens

Portsmouth

Chillicothe

Findlay

Lima

Bowling Green

Sandusky

Mansfield

Sidney

Defiance

Marion

New Philadelphia

 

I would not focus on any smaller cities that are part of the Dayton, Cincinnati, Akron, Cleveland or Columbus metros, as I think those already provide enough nearby options for rural residents in those areas.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 20186 yr by jonoh81

^^ Agree with you jonoh81. I live in a rural area in a township and yet I am only 20 miles from Broad and High and live close by 70 so it is a straight shot into Columbus. Also I am just outside of a town of about 5,000 as well.  I think many of these people who mean "rural" mean areas like this-fields and cropland, some horse and llama farms, etc. but still close enough to a large city. Sort of really exurban rather than rural and within metropolitan areas.

 

I also agree in concentrating on "nodes" within the state: smaller urban centers that can be smaller urban hubs that rural residents can commute to fairly easily-many rural residents are used to long commutes anyway. It would be a concentration in investment and employment and not necessarily writing off existing rural communities within commuting distance. Of course that might mean that the truly rural poor(especially those who might lack a vehicle) might have to relocate to avoid being in employment, service, and food deserts. 

 

Madison County for example is hardly a liberal bastion but is not exactly a raging conservative center either. And it is growing and part of that growth is now becoming sort of urban spillover-look at the plans for expansion around Plain City and there is a plan for a 400 acre new development for West Jeff on both sides of 40 just east of 142. These areas will be within commuting distance of Columbus itself. With another 750,000 to 1 million people moving into the Central Ohio region, at least some of that growth is going to be in these adjacent counties. 

Edited December 24, 20186 yr by Toddguy

^^I’m not sure how a new focus like that happens, to essentially pick winners and losers.  Also what type of funding would these locations get?  We are living still in a Governor Rhodes set up where the money for colleges hits all throughout Ohio so that no Ohioan is further than 30 miles from a college.     It looks like you are using the ODOT map so maybe you are referring to infrastructure being too spread throughout. That would be a political dynamite in a House that is dominated by rural members. The only way i see this being viable is what Kasich hinted at but never pursued: Allowing counties to merge. I believe Ashland and Richland would be interested in merging but i don’t know if there is any apparatus available to allow that. I know they were looking at Darke merging at one point with a neighboring county.  That would be a better way of organically getting the state more efficient in how dollars get doled out. 

19 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

I don't think that's a function of the urban/rural divide.  I think that's a function of having divisive leaders for a good 30-40 years that have made political careers off of making them worse.  Rural voters may be resentful of being left behind, but that resentment is not exactly all organic.  Also, you could argue that there was less polarization when there was more dispersal, but society overall was much more regressed socially in a lot of ways than it is now.  I'm not sure I want to go back to that.  In fact, I know I wouldn't want to.

 

In any case, the point is that people shouldn't be left behind, but we have to do it in an intelligent way.  Trying to rebuild every village or town is a waste or resources.  It has to be more strategic than that.

I agree with this as well. If you look back 30 or 40 years, what many of these conservative rural people believe now is similar to what many liberals of that time believed then. Over the long term, things have gotten more liberal over time, no matter where you are pretty much. Also I think demonizing the people who live in rural areas is not a good thing-not everyone there thinks the same and is a carbon copy of the typical Fox News commenter and this just increases the divide that currently exists. I understand that some of this is a backlash to Trump and all(which may be seen as a backlash/whitelash as Van Jones called it), but to do the same thing of mindless counter-bashing is kind of counterproductive. The best we can do is try and make sure that this backlash is the one step backwards before the two steps forward.

Edited December 24, 20186 yr by Toddguy

Family-size dairy farms are dying out.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/dairy-farming-is-dying-after-40-years-im-out/2018/12/21/79cd63e4-0314-11e9-b6a9-0aa5c2fcc9e4_story.html?utm_term=.ee10a847ce1a

On 12/23/2018 at 5:48 PM, Boxtruffles said:

Washington Post reported that out of big cities, big city suburbs, towns,  small town suburbs, or rural areas, the highest amount of people want to move to rural areas (27%)

 

The reason so many people wanted to live in suburbs is because they were sold this idea that suburbs would have the good parts of cities and the good parts of rural areas all rolled into one. They would have big yards for their children to play, privacy and separation from their neighbors, but would still have access to shopping and restaurants and cultural amenities just like people in cities do. Of course, over time, people realized that suburbs also have a lot of the bad parts of cities and rural areas, as well.

 

I think a lot of people who live in suburbs and hate the traffic congestion believe that their suburb is just too dense and if they could just move to a less dense suburb (what they might call a "rural area") they can finally escape the congestion!

 

Very few people want to live in a truly rural area where the only place to shop is Jenny's Country Store and the only restaurant is Gramma's Pizza.

^You have to move pretty far out there to be farther than a 60 minute drive from a grocery store, hospital, etc.  In the east, the only area where you could do that is West Virginia and maybe northern Maine. 

 

But if you have any sort of unusual medical condition, living in the true country becomes very difficult since it might require regular multi-hour trips to Denver or Salt Lake City or wherever. 

^"Looks like you're dead in a gulch, city slicker!"

I think that small towns in general are dying or some are maybe just downsizing. I live in the Youngstown area and most small towns are not doing great around here as expected. The one town I will give a lot of credit to is Columbiana - they have a very pro-development/business attitude there. They've really managed to keep business alive in their "downtown" even when things were looking bleak.Their main street is pretty walkable and has even become a local destination for its coffee shops, arts and crafts store, restaurants, breweries, ect. However if you go down the road to similarly sized cities (Leetonia, East Palestine, Salem), there's really not much going on at all. I think a lot of small towns just need to stop complaining and actually get things done. I guess you could argue Columbiana has an advantage due to its proximity to Youngstown, but it is far enough away that I don't think it even matters much.

 

Here's a photo of Main Street in Columbiana I took earlier this year:

A lot of small towns bought wholesale into boilerplate Municode zoning.  So most of their town center is completely illegal and next to impossible to fix up.  The residential areas are likely also non-compliant in at least one way too.  So if someone has the wherewithal to overcome all those hurdles in the first place, the result is the worst kind of suburban banality.  They don't realize just how much they're getting in their own way, and a state DOT that's more than happy to ream out several blocks for wider through streets isn't helping either.  

 

I’m surprised it would even be ahead of Mississippi.