Yeah, but maybe you could chip off parts of other states that would be just as bad- large chunks of any Appalachian state, most of the west outside of the big cities or ski villages, most of the South outside a few "New South" meccas, the Ozarks, etc.

57 minutes ago, w28th said:

I’m surprised it would even be ahead of Mississippi.

 

Lol, exactly what I was thinking. I've never been, but Mississippi must be a real sh*thole, to use the President's terminology. 

2 hours ago, edale said:

 

Lol, exactly what I was thinking. I've never been, but Mississippi must be a real sh*thole, to use the President's terminology. 

 

I was in Jackson, MS a few years ago. And it’s the only place in the United States I’ve been to that had streets in worse shape that in Cleveland. 

Yes, but probably many states have a latent Mississippi in them. It's not valid comparison. Choose the ten or twenty poorest counties and then compare; Ohio wouldn't look so bad. 

I think that would be the case in most states if you took away the best parts.  PA for sure would probably be worse. The south and west too. It's kind of a dumb statement IMO. If you are in Appalachian Ohio, you are probably closer to resources than lot of places to get out of that cycle of poverty if you wanted to. 

On 12/24/2018 at 12:35 PM, Toddguy said:

^^ Agree with you jonoh81. I live in a rural area in a township and yet I am only 20 miles from Broad and High and live close by 70 so it is a straight shot into Columbus. Also I am just outside of a town of about 5,000 as well.  I think many of these people who mean "rural" mean areas like this-fields and cropland, some horse and llama farms, etc. but still close enough to a large city. Sort of really exurban rather than rural and within metropolitan areas.

 

I also agree in concentrating on "nodes" within the state: smaller urban centers that can be smaller urban hubs that rural residents can commute to fairly easily-many rural residents are used to long commutes anyway. It would be a concentration in investment and employment and not necessarily writing off existing rural communities within commuting distance. Of course that might mean that the truly rural poor(especially those who might lack a vehicle) might have to relocate to avoid being in employment, service, and food deserts. 

 

Madison County for example is hardly a liberal bastion but is not exactly a raging conservative center either. And it is growing and part of that growth is now becoming sort of urban spillover-look at the plans for expansion around Plain City and there is a plan for a 400 acre new development for West Jeff on both sides of 40 just east of 142. These areas will be within commuting distance of Columbus itself. With another 750,000 to 1 million people moving into the Central Ohio region, at least some of that growth is going to be in these adjacent counties. 

 

My dad lives in West Jeff and he comments on a lot of distribution and such going on in that area.   He seems comfortable there and as you say it's not that far into Columbus.

 

I've heard some of the distribution centers that go through heavy turnover have been looking into four six hour shifts, or conversely four tens with three days off, rotating staff.   The latter is traditionally good for employee morale when jobs are not too physically taxing (we are doing it now in our busiest department), the former when they are.

On 1/16/2019 at 9:27 PM, Dblcut3 said:

I think that small towns in general are dying or some are maybe just downsizing. I live in the Youngstown area and most small towns are not doing great around here as expected. The one town I will give a lot of credit to is Columbiana - they have a very pro-development/business attitude there. They've really managed to keep business alive in their "downtown" even when things were looking bleak.Their main street is pretty walkable and has even become a local destination for its coffee shops, arts and crafts store, restaurants, breweries, ect. However if you go down the road to similarly sized cities (Leetonia, East Palestine, Salem), there's really not much going on at all. I think a lot of small towns just need to stop complaining and actually get things done. I guess you could argue Columbiana has an advantage due to its proximity to Youngstown, but it is far enough away that I don't think it even matters much.

 

Here's a photo of Main Street in Columbiana I took earlier this year:

 

Looks  like Hudson, Willoughby, Chardon, etc.   Even Bedford to a degree.  Those suburbs are going to draw from a bigger population base than a small town in a truly rural area.

4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Looks  like Hudson, Willoughby, Chardon, etc.   Even Bedford to a degree.  Those suburbs are going to draw from a bigger population base than a small town in a truly rural area.

I guess Columbiana is suburban in many ways but it is quite a bit south of Youngstown. It is however the only town/suburb around Youngstown with a nice walkable main street which is impressive. But I don't understand why towns such as Canfield don't try to do the same.

2 hours ago, Dblcut3 said:

I guess Columbiana is suburban in many ways but it is quite a bit south of Youngstown. It is however the only town/suburb around Youngstown with a nice walkable main street which is impressive. But I don't understand why towns such as Canfield don't try to do the same.

 

Seventeen miles, so comparable to the three towns I mentioned from Cleveland, or in Hudson's case from Akron.

 

It' seems tough to retrofit in something like that after the fact.

I guess this is the best thread for my comment.  When I visited family in Akron last October, I had a few hours to kill before I headed to Cleveland Hopkins for my flight back to LA.  I took a mini road trip to check out Norwalk and then I headed east to Oberlin before continuing east to the airport.

 

I'll tell you what, Norwalk (I had never been) really bucks the trend of small town decline.  It's a gorgeous town first of all.  It was also vibrant and dense with beautiful architecture and is in very good condition.  The storefronts were almost all filled and there is a grade school or middle school right downtown which had just let out, so all of the students were walking downtown which really added the sense of vibrancy.  Norwalk was truly a suprising little town.  Also, the drive from Akron to Norwalk, taking 76 to Lodi and then 224 to 250 was a beautiful drive.  I was very impressed by the experience.

 

After Norwalk, I drove to Oberlin which is also a beautiful little town.  I love the architecture of the college mixed with some of the more modern buildings which have been added in recent years. The big central park is a great space.  My only complaint is that Oberlin seems to have a pretty small downtown which is only on one side of the street, but overall, a nice town.

 

Edited February 27, 20196 yr by jeremyck01

On 10/12/2018 at 11:53 AM, Foraker said:

 

I agree -- but "sprawl" is also a thing in those areas.  I pass through St. Henry regularly and it seems like there's a new further-out suburban-style development every time.  They are obviously doing well, and within commuting distance of a lot of employers outside of St. Henry.  But is it sustainable?

 

 

No.  Every additional mile of new development (mostly cul-de-sacs) is adding to their road, water, and sewer maintenance costs.  The population is growing, but not as fast as the rate of maintenance cost increases.  The extended family I know there are all in denial, think that their town is special and different.

^ Did you just respond to you-from-four-months-ago?

On 2/9/2019 at 6:29 AM, E Rocc said:

 

My dad lives in West Jeff and he comments on a lot of distribution and such going on in that area.   He seems comfortable there and as you say it's not that far into Columbus.

 

I've heard some of the distribution centers that go through heavy turnover have been looking into four six hour shifts, or conversely four tens with three days off, rotating staff.   The latter is traditionally good for employee morale when jobs are not too physically taxing (we are doing it now in our busiest department), the former when they are.

I am right outside of West Jeff and yeah, they are getting the new Amazon distribution center plus another big warehouse is being built (not sure if it is just speculative or not) and all. They also extended water lines to the newer addition to Battelle only on the condition that all of Battelle annex into West Jeff. When it comes to tax base they seem to be doing ok.

 

*and I have worked four ten hour shifts before and it is great to have a Monday and Tuesday and then a Thursday and Friday with Wednesday off and never working more than two days in a row. Especially if you have a long commute.

2 hours ago, Foraker said:

No.  Every additional mile of new development (mostly cul-de-sacs) is adding to their road, water, and sewer maintenance costs.  The population is growing, but not as fast as the rate of maintenance cost increases.  The extended family I know there are all in denial, think that their town is special and different.

 

This is so true. I wish that more Ohio conservatives would get into the Strong Towns mindset. Spending money on new infrastructure for auto-oriented sprawl is newer going to result in enough investment to pay for the ongoing maintenance of that infrastructure. And yet, most Ohioans are so used to the idea that "of course, our taxes pay for roads," the vast majority of people don't ever stop and question this development pattern. When ODOT goes broke and a the Republican governor and Republican legislature propose a large gas tax hike instead of reeling in ODOT's spending, you know things are upside down.

16 hours ago, Toddguy said:

I am right outside of West Jeff and yeah, they are getting the new Amazon distribution center plus another big warehouse is being built (not sure if it is just speculative or not) and all. They also extended water lines to the newer addition to Battelle only on the condition that all of Battelle annex into West Jeff. When it comes to tax base they seem to be doing ok.

 

*and I have worked four ten hour shifts before and it is great to have a Monday and Tuesday and then a Thursday and Friday with Wednesday off and never working more than two days in a row. Especially if you have a long commute.

 

Impressed they pulled that off.   My dad lives in that area because he worked at Battelle for awhile.   I know they have wanted to do that for some time.

 

We got busy again ("coincidentally" when the Dems took over the House)  but what we did was kept everyone on four tens but staggered them through the week.

12 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Impressed they pulled that off.   My dad lives in that area because he worked at Battelle for awhile.   I know they have wanted to do that for some time.

 

We got busy again ("coincidentally" when the Dems took over the House)  but what we did was kept everyone on four tens but staggered them through the week.

They are still wanting to put in that big development on along and south of 40 east of 142, but have gotten some pushback because of environmental concerns. Something like a 300 acre development with a Kroger-the town needs a grocery store...a real one and not a Dollar General/Family Dollar. As long as they really can address environmental concerns they should go for it. People have to live somewhere with possibly up to another million moving into Central Ohio in the next 35 years or so...and they can't all live north of 70 either(nor afford to). There is easy access to 70 and 270. The town does need to be brought into the current century IMHO-there is not a lot of "there" there. Growing in the retail/restaurant/residential direction is needed as they seem to have the tax base covered pretty well. They are getting jobs out here(not glamorous or easy jobs but still jobs)..they need more people as the town has been stuck just below 5,000 for decades now.

 

* I have to admit, the only businesses I ever have used in West Jeff have been a gas station, The McDonalds, the Family Dollar a couple times and a dentist-the one who had his office in the old building in downtown West Jeff that fell into Main Street a few years back lol. I just skip West Jeff and go into Columbus for anything or occasionally London. 

Edited March 1, 20196 yr by Toddguy
blah blah

The litter is not only an urban/black problem though. Drive around the beautiful rolling hills of southeast Ohio and you'll see trash in all the roadside ditches and littering people's properties. I grew up out that way and I remember tons of adults nonchalantly throwing their trash out the car window. You see it all the time. 

14 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

The litter is not only an urban/black problem though. Drive around the beautiful rolling hills of southeast Ohio and you'll see trash in all the roadside ditches and littering people's properties. I grew up out that way and I remember tons of adults nonchalantly throwing their trash out the car window. You see it all the time. 

I also grew up in southeast Ohio. I remember seeing a commercial where I believe it was the local police telling people to not through TVs or couches into the woods which a lot of people did. 

Currently living in Southeast OH. I can say it's also not a generational problem as just today I found a bunch of pull tab Rolling Rock cans in the woods that looked to be from the 70s, as well as a Coke bottle from Parkersburg, WV and a Dr. Pepper bottled in Elyria, OH with 10¢ marked in the glass. Also found a Moerlein bottle fragment in Cincy once, like a pre 80s original.

18 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I also grew up in southeast Ohio. I remember seeing a commercial where I believe it was the local police telling people to not through TVs or couches into the woods which a lot of people did. 

 

Trust me they still do. I'm curious to see what part of SEO you guys are from. 

 

As a landlord myself, I know the pain of trying to keep a property cleaned up after a bad tenant. I can only imagine what it would be like in the city and i'm sure its quite a bit more expensive as well. 

1 hour ago, back40 said:

 

Trust me they still do. I'm curious to see what part of SEO you guys are from. 

 

As a landlord myself, I know the pain of trying to keep a property cleaned up after a bad tenant. I can only imagine what it would be like in the city and i'm sure its quite a bit more expensive as well. 

I am from Marietta 

Me too!

Marietta is arguably the nicest city in Southeast Ohio.

9 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Marietta is arguably the nicest city in Southeast Ohio.

I wouldn’t disagree with that. The downtown area is really nice for a city it’s size. It was a great place growing up but not a place I’d ever move back to. 

There is a rumor that the new owners of The Majestic failed to do their planning and are no longer moving it to AC. Marietta is the new rumored destination. I guess we will see how that plays out. I know this is off topic of the thread so I apologize. 

On 3/27/2019 at 12:29 PM, DEPACincy said:

The litter is not only an urban/black problem though. Drive around the beautiful rolling hills of southeast Ohio and you'll see trash in all the roadside ditches and littering people's properties. I grew up out that way and I remember tons of adults nonchalantly throwing their trash out the car window. You see it all the time. 

 

I don't think anyone said it is "only an urban/black problem." Litter is exacerbated in urban areas for a number of reasons, which makes it a much larger problem than littering in rural areas. Even if the rates of littering are the exact same, in an urban area it's going to pile up much more quickly, and do so in places that are inconvenient and unsanitary for residents. I'd also wager that rates of littering are much higher in urban areas because there's a subset of the population that typically wouldn't litter, but do so because they're in an environment that's already covered in litter. It's broken windows theory 101. There are also less significant, but still impactful factors. For example, it's easier to secure your refuse and hold onto it until you have access to a waste receptacle when you're in a car than when you're on foot.

15 hours ago, Ram23 said:

 

I don't think anyone said it is "only an urban/black problem." Litter is exacerbated in urban areas for a number of reasons, which makes it a much larger problem than littering in rural areas. Even if the rates of littering are the exact same, in an urban area it's going to pile up much more quickly, and do so in places that are inconvenient and unsanitary for residents. I'd also wager that rates of littering are much higher in urban areas because there's a subset of the population that typically wouldn't litter, but do so because they're in an environment that's already covered in litter. It's broken windows theory 101. There are also less significant, but still impactful factors. For example, it's easier to secure your refuse and hold onto it until you have access to a waste receptacle when you're in a car than when you're on foot.

 

I didn't mean to imply that anyone here was saying that. I was only adding to the discussion brought up by the City Beat article that was shared. 

 

I also don't know if rates are actually higher in urban areas. I have known people who would never even consider throwing something on the ground walking down the street but have no problem throwing something out their window going 65 mph down the highway. When you're in a car you are more anonymous and you are removed from the environment around you. I distinctly remember an acquaintance in high school who couldn't find a trash can at the county fair so he took his soda cup with him back to his truck and then threw it out the window once we got a little ways down the highway. It's weird. 

On 3/28/2019 at 7:40 AM, back40 said:

 

Trust me they still do. I'm curious to see what part of SEO you guys are from. 

 

As a landlord myself, I know the pain of trying to keep a property cleaned up after a bad tenant. I can only imagine what it would be like in the city and i'm sure its quite a bit more expensive as well. 

 

So I actually grew up in Adams County, which I guess is technically Southwest Ohio but is much closer culturally to Southeast Ohio and Eastern KY. But I spent a lot of time with family in Jackson County and Scioto County, and I went to college at OU. 

Littering and dumping was actually way worse in the '60s and '70s. Appalachia in particular is way worse about the yards full of junk still today though. The Uncool Crescent of Columbus also with the unincorporated parts the worst.