The one lesson I hope they learn from Public Square is to not focus so much on events and design instead with day to day use as the top priority.  If there's lawn, make sure there are paved pedestrian routes too, for the 300 days a year that people just need to walk through and not listen to live music or buy fruit or whatever.  

On 2/19/2019 at 6:48 PM, PoshSteve said:

 

LAND Studio is the only company to design any public space in this city anymore. Isn't there some connection between someone in the city government, and someone who works in LAND? I may be misremembering, but I think I recall that discussed here before.

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but former councilman Cimperman's wife was one of the leading figures there.   She still may be.

4 hours ago, ytown2ctown said:

Cities are made for PEOPLE not cars. Next person to cry about traffic and car related things needs to look at other cities and pedestrian only areas that are sustainable and healthy development. Not car centric South Park malls. Obviously Shaker is looking for something different here.

 

Cities are made for people, not planners.  If the people who live there are car oriented, and the vast majority in this area are, design and development should reflect that.

3 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Cities are made for people, not planners.  If the people who live there are car oriented, and the vast majority in this area are, design and development should reflect that.

 

That’s what the suburbs/exurbs are for.

4 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Cities are made for people, not planners.  If the people who live there are car oriented, and the vast majority in this area are, design and development should reflect that.

Except they aren't. The people who cut through there to get to work are car oriented. Shaker square wasn't built to be someone's cut through. It's just like the people west of Lakewood who complained about Clifton going down to one lane where it becomes Lake over the bridge. There are plenty of other streets you can take to get home. 

You could make it work.  Twinsburg Square might be a better model though.

 

In the Google capture Shaker Blvd was blocked for some sort of even anyway.

 

Serious question:  would this reduce parking available for the rapids?

 

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by E Rocc

^ hard to make claims about the neighborhood and it’s residents when you don’t even recognize that as the farmers market. How much time do you actually spend there? 

17 minutes ago, JSC216 said:

^ hard to make claims about the neighborhood and it’s residents when you don’t even recognize that as the farmers market. How much time do you actually spend there? 

 

The point was if the street is regularly blocked off, it's probably not really needed.

43 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

 

That’s what the suburbs/exurbs are for.

 

Taking that approach is a recipe for more sprawl, around here.   We're not NYC or SF, just like they aren't Tokyo.   I really don't see NE Ohio people ever not being strongly inclined towards private transportation, barring some sort of economic catastrophe.

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by E Rocc

Because NE Ohioans are somehow genetically different?

Just now, KJP said:

Because NE Ohioans are somehow genetically different?

 

You know, it's certainly possible that traits such as affinity for/aversion to crowding are  influenced by genetic factors,  and therefore inheritable.   Americans in general, off the coasts, certainly seem to value personal space.

 

But many factors come into play, including upbringing and that of one's parents.   Much of our population here is two or three generations removed from actual rural areas.

Ridiculous. Americans lived in much more crowded cities when capitalism defined their shape, not New Deal-era GI Bills and public works projects (aka highways).

 

And so we get off track again.....

Final design presentation.  Doesn't look much different from the previous version.

Quote

In addition to removing the boulevard to create more publicly usable green space, major recommendations in the plan include:

- Sites for several new parking garages behind the buildings that front the square. Some of the garages could be mixed-use structures with apartments or condominiums above.

- Sites for additional new residential or mixed-use buildings that could edge or fill parking lots around the square’s four quadrants.

- A north-south multi-purpose walkway through the center of the square, crossing the rapid transit tracks. The walkway would connect to a new trail linking Larchmere and Doan Brook to the north, to communities south of the square, and to regional bike paths.

- Play areas for children, including a splash pad and a playground.

- Built-in barriers to address homeland security concerns and to prevent cars from ramming into the square.

- Better lighting, policing and traffic control to improve safety.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/06/final-design-recommendations-for-revamping-shaker-square-earn-mixed-reviews-at-sunday-unveiling.html

 

I don't see why this project is necessary other than the $400,000 spent could have been used to repair the sidewalks and spruce up the landscape.  This design, similar to Public Square, is trying too hard .  

^This project, done correctly, will dramatically improve an underutilized public space. Much like the Public Square redesign, this is money well spent. 

FYI, I also just learned that there will be signal prioritization to move RTA trains through the square without stopping -- except at the junction between the green/blue lines where train operators still must push a button to position the switch for their direction. Very old school. Yet RTA refuses to consider that the cost savings will allow them to debt finance the automation of this interlocking. If RTA can't get a grant for something, they don't invest money in it.

Edited July 2, 20195 yr by KJP

4 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

^This project, done correctly, will dramatically improve an underutilized public space. Much like the Public Square redesign, this is money well spent. 

 

@Terdolph if you disagree with an opinion, the poison ☠️  reaction is the one to use. Dislike / ? is for posts that violate posting policy. 

 

(And the poison usage doesn’t make particular sense to me either. It seems like we need a “disagree” reaction. “Dislike” negatively affects one’s community score and therefore is only appropriate for posting violations.)

 

I hope a moderator with clarify if my statement is not correct.

Edited July 1, 20195 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Additional comments on poison

5 hours ago, KJP said:

FYI, I also just learned that there will be signal prioritization to move RTA trains through the square without stopping -- except at the junction between the green/blue lines where train operators still must push a button to position the switch for their direction. Very old school. Yet RTA refuses to consider that the cost savings will allow them to debt finance the automation of this interlocking. If RTA can't get a grant for something, they don't do invest the money in it.

3 hours ago, Terdolph said:

Thanks, there are a lot of rules in this place.

It’s more of a suggestion than a rule. Thank you for updating your reaction, I appreciate it. 

 

Edited August 29, 20195 yr by KJP

Biggby is a Michigan-based franchised chain with locations in 8 states.

12 hours ago, Potamus said:

Biggby is a Michigan-based franchised chain with locations in 8 states.

 

There's a Biggby on Brookpark Rd Extension in North Olmsted, and one coming soon in Elyria on Rt 57 between I-90 and the Turnpike...

Based on their hashtags on Facebook for BiggbyCoffeeNorthOlmsted, there are more in the works... #northolmsted #westlake #universityheights#shakerheight #elyria #shakersquare 

(I still miss Caribou though...)

(Someone please tell them there is no #shakerheight)

 

Edited September 5, 20195 yr by buckeye1

There's been so much interest in the traffic patterns around the Square but I've seen almost nothing in writing about what's been going on with the current conditions around the Square!  As for the Square itself, the new signage is great but the landscaping this year leaves a lot to be desired and, far more important, the condition of the trim on the square - painting and even architectural trim - is DEPLORABLE!  As the painting was done not too many years ago (the painters had used the color I had recommended, based on historical precedent, and I spoke with them periodically) so obviously it was a very deficient job (poor preparation, etc.).  Just look around the CVS facade alone.  Then there are many pieces of trim missing, as well as removed lanterns never replaced, etc.  All the buildings looks shabby; I was really looking forward to work being done this summer but the whole summer went by with no improvement - only more deterioration.  Since I've moved here in 1973 I've never seen anything like this at the Square. The first time I saw the Square I was entranced by it and later lived by it for three years.

 

Then there's what's been going on with the surrounding apartment buildings - particularly south of the Square.  What on earth is going on?  Most of the buildings are looking wretched, with no relief in sight!  For many years at least the buildings managed by Shaker Square Apartments were looking somewhat respectable, even if remodeling was carried out which, as a preservationist, I wouldn't sanction. Now not only do those buildings look so bad (lawns, landscaping, paint jobs, etc.) but even the SSA signs themselves are shabby.  I understand the buildings are now managed basically by a company in NYC, and realize the local office has been moved to the building at Drexmore and Ludlow m, Drexmore Mansion, but that building itself, which had been among the most attractive south of the square, now has umkept landscaping, sign, and structure.  The French-style building across Ludlow with the tower, Ludlow Towers and which now has a sign naming Bryr Managemenr, is also looking worse than I've ever seen it.

 

The once-beautiful Ashwood complex, never managed by SSA as far as I know, is looking horrible! There's even at least one broken window right in front.  Lawns are bad, landscaping seems to be ignored for months.  Several buildings on South Moreland are missing their front doors!  A broken lancet window in one.  Of course the once very beautiful English- and French-style buildings on Hampton and South Woodland have looked bad for a while but this is the pits.  The one that was painted a few years ago must have been given a very poor paint job because it's really shabby. The one at South Woodland and Ludlow was another which had looked among the best in the vicinity but it has really gone downhill.  That one, at least, has been undergoing some sort of renovation this year.  Also, as everyone knows, the Van Aken strip has been left to ruin and also brings everything down - considerably.  Whatever happened to several proposals?  These condition issues are very bad for the Square and bad for Cleveland. While some parts of the city have been going up up up, the blocks  south of Shaker Square are unfortunately experiencing the opposite, and it's a damn shame.  What can be done?  I think these issues are far, far more important than the traffic pattern at the Square many have been excited about, even though that's definitely a significant issue as well.

 Meanwhile, there are some super shops and restaurants on the Square.  The apartment buildings right on Shaker Boulevard are fine, with the condos east of the Square gorgeous as always, and those all the way northward towards Fairhill are certainly holding their own (with perhaps the exceptions of a few more SSA-managed properties), and Larchmere, from East 121st Street east, is a showplace of great shops, restaurants, and one of Greater Cleveland's most attractive streetscape plans.

 

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by lafont

On 9/24/2019 at 8:57 AM, lafont said:

There's been so much interest in the traffic patterns around the Square but I've seen almost nothing in writing about what's been going on with the current conditions around the Square!  As for the Square itself, the new signage is great but the landscaping this year leaves a lot to be desired and, far more important, the condition of the trim on the square - painting and even architectural trim - is DEPLORABLE!  As the painting was done not too many years ago (the painters had used the color I had recommended, based on historical precedent, and I spoke with them periodically) so obviously it was a very deficient job (poor preparation, etc.).  Just look around the CVS facade alone.  Then there are many pieces of trim missing, as well as removed lanterns never replaced, etc.  All the buildings looks shabby; I was really looking forward to work being done this summer but the whole summer went by with no improvement - only more deterioration.  Since I've moved here in 1973 I've never seen anything like this at the Square. The first time I saw the Square I was entranced by it and later lived by it for three years.

 

Then there's what's been going on with the surrounding apartment buildings - particularly south of the Square.  What on earth is going on?  Most of the buildings are looking wretched, with no relief in sight!  For many years at least the buildings managed by Shaker Square Apartments were looking somewhat respectable, even if remodeling was carried out which, as a preservationist, I wouldn't sanction. Now not only do those buildings look so bad (lawns, landscaping, paint jobs, etc.) but even the SSA signs themselves are shabby.  I understand the buildings are now managed basically by a company in NYC, and realize the local office has been moved to the building at Drexmore and Ludlow m, Drexmore Mansion, but that building itself, which had been among the most attractive south of the square, now has umkept landscaping, sign, and structure.  The French-style building across Ludlow with the tower, Ludlow Towers and which now has a sign naming Bryr Managemenr, is also looking worse than I've ever seen it.

 

The once-beautiful Ashwood complex, never managed by SSA as far as I know, is looking horrible! There's even at least one broken window right in front.  Lawns are bad, landscaping seems to be ignored for months.  Several buildings on South Moreland are missing their front doors!  A broken lancet window in one.  Of course the once very beautiful English- and French-style buildings on Hampton and South Woodland have looked bad for a while but this is the pits.  The one that was painted a few years ago must have been given a very poor paint job because it's really shabby. The one at South Woodland and Ludlow was another which had looked among the best in the vicinity but it has really gone downhill.  That one, at least, has been undergoing some sort of renovation this year.  Also, as everyone knows, the Van Aken strip has been left to ruin and also brings everything down - considerably.  Whatever happened to several proposals?  These condition issues are very bad for the Square and bad for Cleveland. While some parts of the city have been going up up up, the blocks  south of Shaker Square are unfortunately experiencing the opposite, and it's a damn shame.  What can be done?  I think these issues are far, far more important than the traffic pattern at the Square many have been excited about, even though that's definitely a significant issue as well.

 Meanwhile, there are some super shops and restaurants on the Square.  The apartment buildings right on Shaker Boulevard are fine, with the condos east of the Square gorgeous as always, and those all the way northward towards Fairhill are certainly holding their own (with perhaps the exceptions of a few more SSA-managed properties), and Larchmere, from East 121st Street east, is a showplace of great shops, restaurants, and one of Greater Cleveland's most attractive streetscape plans.

 

 

Shaker Square News. https://fox8.com/2019/11/08/some-residents-businesses-concerned-with-proposed-plan-to-close-shaker-boulevard/

Resident rally is 2 pm today:

 

https://radio.wosu.org/post/opponents-plan-saturday-rally-against-proposed-shaker-boulevard-closure#stream/0

Im all for closing off the Square.  I feel the same about PS.  There is plenty of parking around Shaker Square and with lots on both the North and South sides.  

On 9/24/2019 at 8:57 AM, lafont said:

There's been so much interest in the traffic patterns around the Square but I've seen almost nothing in writing about what's been going on with the current conditions around the Square!  As for the Square itself, the new signage is great but the landscaping this year leaves a lot to be desired and, far more important, the condition of the trim on the square - painting and even architectural trim - is DEPLORABLE!  As the painting was done not too many years ago (the painters had used the color I had recommended, based on historical precedent, and I spoke with them periodically) so obviously it was a very deficient job (poor preparation, etc.).  Just look around the CVS facade alone.  Then there are many pieces of trim missing, as well as removed lanterns never replaced, etc.  All the buildings looks shabby; I was really looking forward to work being done this summer but the whole summer went by with no improvement - only more deterioration.  Since I've moved here in 1973 I've never seen anything like this at the Square. The first time I saw the Square I was entranced by it and later lived by it for three years.

 

Then there's what's been going on with the surrounding apartment buildings - particularly south of the Square.  What on earth is going on?  Most of the buildings are looking wretched, with no relief in sight!  For many years at least the buildings managed by Shaker Square Apartments were looking somewhat respectable, even if remodeling was carried out which, as a preservationist, I wouldn't sanction. Now not only do those buildings look so bad (lawns, landscaping, paint jobs, etc.) but even the SSA signs themselves are shabby.  I understand the buildings are now managed basically by a company in NYC, and realize the local office has been moved to the building at Drexmore and Ludlow m, Drexmore Mansion, but that building itself, which had been among the most attractive south of the square, now has umkept landscaping, sign, and structure.  The French-style building across Ludlow with the tower, Ludlow Towers and which now has a sign naming Bryr Managemenr, is also looking worse than I've ever seen it.

 

 

Is this in part a result of part of the neighborhood lying in Shaker and part in Cleveland?  Maybe each thinks that the responsibility is with the other, or that one hasn't been a good partner in the past and so they are not working well together?  I don't know.  You can look at Severance in Cleveland Heights for similar problems and a city unable to make significant improvements for some time.  Hopefully Shaker Square and the adjoining city governments get it together sooner rather than later.

^I don't think that's it.  All of the square itself North to Larchmere is in Cleveland, as is the area East to almost Coventry, and effectively everything South and West of the square.  So almost everything one would call "Shaker square" is firmly in Cleveland.   The buildings on the square itself are privately owned by Coral who just hasn't seemed to invest in the maintenance or landscaping.  Maybe the rents aren't enough, although occupancy has been pretty good, really since they bought it.  

 

With all the apartments right there, the farmers market, the adjacent Larchmere neighborhood, the movie theater, the rapid, and a diverse mix of shops and restaurants I would think Shaker Square would be a lot more vibrant than it is.  I'm not sure closing of Shaker Blvd is the silver bullet, but it's definitely underperforming it's potential.

9 minutes ago, Potamus said:

The buildings on the square itself are privately owned by Coral who just hasn't seemed to invest in the maintenance or landscaping.  Maybe the rents aren't enough, although occupancy has been pretty good, really since they bought it.

 

Maybe not for long:

 

Shaker Square for sale; proposal to close Shaker Boulevard put on hold

Published 11/11/2019, 3:52 PM
By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Shaker Square, the historic, 1920s-era shopping center on Cleveland’s East Side, is being offered for sale by the Coral Co., the Cleveland-based real estate company that has owned it since 2004.

 

The Chicago-based commercial real estate firm of JLL Inc. confirmed Monday that the property is for sale.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/11/shaker-square-offered-for-sale-as-proposal-to-close-shaker-boulevard-is-put-on-hold.html

Edited November 11, 20195 yr by infrafreak
formatting

1 hour ago, Foraker said:

 

Is this in part a result of part of the neighborhood lying in Shaker and part in Cleveland?  Maybe each thinks that the responsibility is with the other, or that one hasn't been a good partner in the past and so they are not working well together?  I don't know.  You can look at Severance in Cleveland Heights for similar problems and a city unable to make significant improvements for some time.  Hopefully Shaker Square and the adjoining city governments get it together sooner rather than later.

I did update this about a week ago, for what it's worth.  If the Square is for sale it's no excuse for tremendous lack of maintenance at least in its exterior. The paint alone is wretched!  The Van Aken strip is even worse.

 

If only I had the $$$.  The things I would do to the Square!

A catwalk along North Moreland. Fashion shows every week. A wine and sushi bar on the corner named "Buddy's Back Door." I can see it now! ?

17 minutes ago, KJP said:

A catwalk along North Moreland. Fashion shows every week. A wine and sushi bar on the corner named "Buddy's Back Door." I can see it now! ?

 

Yes honey!

12 hours ago, KJP said:

A catwalk along North Moreland. Fashion shows every week. A wine and sushi bar on the corner named "Buddy's Back Door." I can see it now! ?

When do we start crowdfunding this so urbanohio can buy the square?

The first thing I 'ce wanted for many, many years is a complete architectural restoration of the Square.  That means bringing back wood shutters where they had been, replacing wood shutters where they had been and in the correct style and proportions, bringing back the missing decorative wood trim, bringing back the missing iron lanterns, but rid of the replacement windows with fake plasticky muntins (e.g. Coral office area), and going back to the Georgian-style windows of real wood.  Get rid of the vinyl siding behind CVS. windows of real wood.  Painting situation is desperate!  Must be a real turnoff to prospective tenants.  Coral had created an ofxfs-white, as I had suggested, but no brash white, like the bank used a few years ago....

12 hours ago, tykaps said:

When do we start crowdfunding this so urbanohio can buy the square?

 

All donations are appreciated, with exception of those tacky queens from UO in Greece infamy!  

Coral doesn't deserve to own the Square if it's keeping up its exterior (at least) so poorly.  I certainly expected the painting, for example, to be done this recent painting season! It looks horrible - virtually slum-like.  This is very unfair to the business owners on the Square who want to retain a respectable clientele and even those with apartments or condos in the immediate vicinity; it's a bad image for everyone who owns or rents in the area and discouraging to those who may consider renting or buying there. 

 

Meanwhile, some program needs to be set up to encourage investment in many of the apartment buildings - particularly those south of the Square.  The Councilperson for that area should very involved.  There should be public meetings and some sort of funding, like loan funding set up for building owners.  Some sort of punishment for those who don't keep their buildings up, too. And if they truly can't afford it they, too, should not be owning these buildings.

Edited November 14, 20195 yr by lafont

Shaker Square’s redesign is worth taking time to do it right

Steven Litt - Nov. 17, 2019

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/11/will-slowing-down-a-controversial-plan-for-shaker-square-plan-help-or-hurt-its-future-steven-litt.html

 

"The larger issue, raised by conflict over the square, is that the Cleveland area has been full of fights lately over redevelopment plans that promise to bring fresh investment into aging neighborhoods. That’s troubling because reviving older urban areas is vital to the future of a region with shrinking cities, sprawling suburbs, and an overall loss of population that will lead to higher taxes everywhere. The catch is that repopulating cities means redeveloping aging neighborhoods that can be averse to change. ... Management for the square could be improved, perhaps through formation of a special improvement district, in which property owners pay a tax to provide better maintenance and safety services. Ownership of the public spaces in the square could be transferred to a nonprofit entity, easing the financial burden on the owner of the leasable space."

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by NorthShore647

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/lyndhurst-developer-crafts-20-million-apartment-plan-larchmere-boulevard

Possible 88 unit apartment on Larchmere.

Larchmere is a great strip.  I'd like to see more apartment buildings of the scale that was built at Larchmere and East 127th go up around the city's commercial districts.  It's got enough scale to give good urban density, without feeling mammoth and out of scale with Cleveland's older commercial buildings.

7 minutes ago, X said:

Larchmere is a great strip.  I'd like to see more apartment buildings of the scale that was built at Larchmere and East 127th go up around the city's commercial districts.  It's got enough scale to give good urban density, without feeling mammoth and out of scale with Cleveland's older commercial buildings.

I agree, but I would prefer more owner units.  Something that ties into the SFH that start at 122 street.  When the 12/13 buses were cut that hurt Buckeye and Larchmere hard.

I think that might be condos, no?  By apartments, I meant unit type, not ownership tenure.

1 hour ago, tykaps said:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/lyndhurst-developer-crafts-20-million-apartment-plan-larchmere-boulevard

Possible 88 unit apartment on Larchmere.

 

This is great to see, and should be a nice improvement over the existing building/conditions of the lot. A lot better than yet another dollar store,

"Councilman Blaine Griffin, whose Ward 6 includes Larchmere, said First Interstate was one of several developers he recruited to redevelop the site, adding that residents of the neighborhood were about to start a petition drive against a proposed dollar store there when he started seeking alternatives to the owner's retenanting the building."

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.488003,-81.5977012,3a,75y,40.31h,92.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAtqyc8fdwL3WIheOLKHrzg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DAtqyc8fdwL3WIheOLKHrzg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D236.62794%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

 

Unrelated, but Baba Yaga's cafe across the street from this site is some of the best vegan food in town. Also, Loganberry at the other end of Larchmere is an awesome bookstore. The area is too often overlooked and one of the cities best kept secrets. 

42 minutes ago, X said:

I think that might be condos, no?  By apartments, I meant unit type, not ownership tenure.

2 hours ago, tykaps said:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/lyndhurst-developer-crafts-20-million-apartment-plan-larchmere-boulevard

Possible 88 unit apartment on Larchmere.

I couldn't open article here but found it on the Web.  It says " eastern" end of commercial district but, of course, that site is on the western end.  I sent a message to SB noting this typo.

This building started life as a supermarket, but I recall when a Drug Mart moved in there from a site on Larchmere just west of North Moreland In 1974.  There are currently several Drug Marts in Lakewood.

Free cookies and hot cider at Loganberry often during the holidays. 

1 hour ago, lafont said:

This building started life as a supermarket, but I recall when a Drug Mart moved in there from a site on Larchmere just west of North Moreland In 1974.  There are currently several Drug Marts in Lakewood.

IIRC it was a Supermarket, but I never once shopped there, then a medical supply / convalescent aids store for a hot minute.

2 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

Unrelated, but Baba Yaga's cafe across the street from this site is some of the best vegan food in town. Also, Loganberry at the other end of Larchmere is an awesome bookstore. The area is too often overlooked and one of the cities best kept secrets. 

My Boyfriend loves Baba's.  Damn "healthy eating" people.  ??‍♂️