Probably best to discuss this in one of the transit threads. But that Red Line extension study didn't lead to construction because GCRTA doesn't have the capacity to fund the non federal share of major transit projects. And they couldn't get UC-area stakeholders like the Clinic interested. Today, it might still generate sufficient ridership even with downtown employment down. UC employment is up. Combined with rerouting the Blue Line to Cleveland Clinic, it might be possible to get the Clinic's interest in supporting these projects and even get a financial commitment from them to pay for the share that RTA cannot afford. In interviews, Clinic officials told me they hate building new parking decks because the cost of building and maintaining them is so high. I asked them if they supported the Red Line extension to Euclid and they said no because the Red Line doesn't come close enough to serving their campus. With a connection to an extended Blue Line, the Clinic would have rail access from multiple directions.

Not sure I agree with this. Lots of inaccuracies, stereotypes and outdated info. 

 

 

idk I'm not sure I trust the data or the analysis in this article.  

I personally think Hicks and Weinstein make compelling arguments. When I moved back to NEO from a big coastal city a few years ago, my spouse and I created a spreadsheet where we ranked 11 potential destinations all over the US based on variables like job prospects, outdoor activities, culture, and proximity to family. If our families weren't here, I don't think Cleveland would have been on the list. I love this region and am happy, so don't get me wrong, but we also had on our list places like Boise, Ashville and Portland, Maine. If you think of people who don't have any connection to this region, Cleveland isn't likely in contention when they make similar decisions.

 

You could say our region has a marketing problem, but I don't think that's so much the issue. The "problem" is this region needs to invest more in things that are important to people who live here. Services, schools, housing and amenities (improved lake access, clean the water). I moved away in 2008 and came back more than 10 years later and the positive changes are honestly amazing. We just need to double-down and accelerate investment in our existing communities.

I have an African-American friend who is a high-income professional living on the south side of Chicago. He is greatly dismayed by the number of African-Americans leaving Chicago for the suburbs and, especially for the South. I'm sure we've also seen the data about the large number of whites moving into Chicago and the growing proportion of whites vs blacks in Cleveland. We need to get a grip on providing safe, livable communities for all in our urban centers.

__________________

 

The waves of migration that brought Black Americans to many northern cities are reversing.

Departing residents are heading everywhere from nearby suburbs to high-growth areas in the southern U.S., such as metro Atlanta, according to demographers, real-estate agents and public officials.

The latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates, released Thursday, indicate Black residents are continuing to leave many urban centers in the North and elsewhere, adding to decades of decline. These losses have hit many major cities with historically large Black populations, including Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Oakland, Calif.

The outflow marks a reversal of the Great Migration that began in the early 20th century as millions of Black Americans left the South looking for more economic opportunities and to flee racial violence. Much of the current shift is driven by younger, college-educated Black people who are relocating from northern and western places to the South, said William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution.

 

MORE:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-americans-are-leaving-cities-in-the-north-and-west-c05bb118?mod=hp_lead_pos9

 

Frankly, we need Asians, Indians and Arabs to move to the Rust Belt en masse. I'm talking multiple millions. Relieve all immigration complications in exchange for some considerations. 

 

Most problems would be solved within a generation. 

 

 

Edited June 23, 20231 yr by TBideon

17 minutes ago, KJP said:

I have an African-American friend who is a high-income professional living on the south side of Chicago. He is greatly dismayed by the number of African-Americans leaving Chicago for the suburbs and, especially for the South. I'm sure we've also seen the data about the large number of whites moving into Chicago and the growing proportion of whites vs blacks in Cleveland. We need to get a grip on providing safe, livable communities for all in our urban centers.

__________________

 

The waves of migration that brought Black Americans to many northern cities are reversing.

Departing residents are heading everywhere from nearby suburbs to high-growth areas in the southern U.S., such as metro Atlanta, according to demographers, real-estate agents and public officials.

The latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates, released Thursday, indicate Black residents are continuing to leave many urban centers in the North and elsewhere, adding to decades of decline. These losses have hit many major cities with historically large Black populations, including Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Oakland, Calif.

The outflow marks a reversal of the Great Migration that began in the early 20th century as millions of Black Americans left the South looking for more economic opportunities and to flee racial violence. Much of the current shift is driven by younger, college-educated Black people who are relocating from northern and western places to the South, said William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution.

 

MORE:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-americans-are-leaving-cities-in-the-north-and-west-c05bb118?mod=hp_lead_pos9

 

 

This has been going on for some time.   It has accelerated because so many work in remote-friendly jobs.   The reasons are the same as those for their non-black counterparts, with two additions.  The secondary has to do with the culture and conduct of the the black underclass.   The primary has to do with people who ignorantly mistake them for adherents of that underclass.

 

I'm not sure what the solution is, but addressing the actual problem is the first step.   Trump, of all people, made some effort along these lines, but like most of his initiatives it lacked focus.

19 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Frankly, we need Asians, Indians and Arabs to move to the Rust Belt en masse. I'm talking multiple millions. Relieve all immigration complications in exchange for some considerations. 

 

Most problems would be solved within a generation. 

 

 

 

In principle I agree, with one consideration being that we need to make sure the religiously intolerant type of Muslim, the type that riot in European camps because someone was eating pork or holding a Bible, aren't part of the mix.    

 

I'm not sure this would pass muster on an anti-discrimination basis, though.

11 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

In principle I agree, with one consideration being that we need to make sure the religiously intolerant type of Muslim, the type that riot in European camps because someone was eating pork or holding a Bible, aren't part of the mix.    

 

I'm not sure this would pass muster on an anti-discrimination basis, though.

 

One can find religious intolerance among all religions and all are insignificant unless you've succumbed to the messaging by a certain cable news channel. Stop letting fear get in the way of inclusivity and economic growth.

16 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

In principle I agree, with one consideration being that we need to make sure the religiously intolerant type of Muslim, the type that riot in European camps because someone was eating pork or holding a Bible, aren't part of the mix.    

 

I'm not sure this would pass muster on an anti-discrimination basis, though.

That would certainly be one of the considerations. 

17 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

In principle I agree, with one consideration being that we need to make sure the religiously intolerant type of Muslim, the type that riot in European camps because someone was eating pork or holding a Bible, aren't part of the mix.    

 

I'm not sure this would pass muster on an anti-discrimination basis, though.

How about we focus on the religiously intolerant Christian’s that we already have in the US? Get those idiots taken care of first and then we can worry about other things, that aren’t really a concern. 

41 minutes ago, KJP said:

I have an African-American friend who is a high-income professional living on the south side of Chicago. He is greatly dismayed by the number of African-Americans leaving Chicago for the suburbs and, especially for the South. I'm sure we've also seen the data about the large number of whites moving into Chicago and the growing proportion of whites vs blacks in Cleveland. We need to get a grip on providing safe, livable communities for all in our urban centers.

__________________

 

The waves of migration that brought Black Americans to many northern cities are reversing.

Departing residents are heading everywhere from nearby suburbs to high-growth areas in the southern U.S., such as metro Atlanta, according to demographers, real-estate agents and public officials.

The latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates, released Thursday, indicate Black residents are continuing to leave many urban centers in the North and elsewhere, adding to decades of decline. These losses have hit many major cities with historically large Black populations, including Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Oakland, Calif.

The outflow marks a reversal of the Great Migration that began in the early 20th century as millions of Black Americans left the South looking for more economic opportunities and to flee racial violence. Much of the current shift is driven by younger, college-educated Black people who are relocating from northern and western places to the South, said William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution.

 

MORE:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-americans-are-leaving-cities-in-the-north-and-west-c05bb118?mod=hp_lead_pos9

 

Only to find the same, and new types of problems in the cities they moved to. What is not discussed is that many of the blacks that left Chicago never sold their Chicago properties, enabling them to make an easy reversal back home, as some are beginning to do. Many are calling their relatives complaining about these southern cities with their lack of amenities, synergy, and having the same levels of crime that they thought they escaped from. Meanwhile Whites, Hispanics, and Asians are moving into the city in large numbers. The old adage is true, the grass looks greener on the other side, but when you get over there, you still have to cut it!

9 hours ago, vulcana said:

Only to find the same, and new types of problems in the cities they moved to. What is not discussed is that many of the blacks that left Chicago never sold their Chicago properties, enabling them to make an easy reversal back home, as some are beginning to do. Many are calling their relatives complaining about these southern cities with their lack of amenities, synergy, and having the same levels of crime that they thought they escaped from. Meanwhile Whites, Hispanics, and Asians are moving into the city in large numbers. The old adage is true, the grass looks greener on the other side, but when you get over there, you still have to cut it!

 

 

yup i see black friends and family who moved out to the mecca of atlanta and pr friends and family who moved out to the pr mecca of orlando come right back here to good old nyc after not too long. they wisely keep their place up here for sure. also, general post covid rebound is real.

10 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

This has been going on for some time.   It has accelerated because so many work in remote-friendly jobs.   The reasons are the same as those for their non-black counterparts, with two additions.  The secondary has to do with the culture and conduct of the the black underclass.   The primary has to do with people who ignorantly mistake them for adherents of that underclass.

 

I'm not sure what the solution is, but addressing the actual problem is the first step.   Trump, of all people, made some effort along these lines, but like most of his initiatives it lacked focus.

 

where are your links for all that hooey?

21 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

This has been going on for some time.   It has accelerated because so many work in remote-friendly jobs.   The reasons are the same as those for their non-black counterparts, with two additions.  The secondary has to do with the culture and conduct of the the black underclass.   The primary has to do with people who ignorantly mistake them for adherents of that underclass.

 

I'm not sure what the solution is, but addressing the actual problem is the first step.   Trump, of all people, made some effort along these lines, but like most of his initiatives it lacked focus.

 

21 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

In principle I agree, with one consideration being that we need to make sure the religiously intolerant type of Muslim, the type that riot in European camps because someone was eating pork or holding a Bible, aren't part of the mix.    

 

I'm not sure this would pass muster on an anti-discrimination basis, though.

Impressive pair of racist, bigoted posts. 

re ideas -- this is a pretty fun idea for reuse of an old roller rink  -- lol:

 

 

 

Popcorn company BjornQorn buys Skate Time roller rink in Ulster County

 

“It’s going to be a roller skating rink on one side and a popcorn factory on the other.”

 

Alexandra Zissu

Dec. 12, 2022

 

more:

https://www.timesunion.com/hudsonvalley/realestate/article/bjornqorn-skate-time-factory-roller-rink-17645354.php

On 6/23/2023 at 11:54 AM, TBideon said:

Frankly, we need Asians, Indians and Arabs to move to the Rust Belt en masse. I'm talking multiple millions. Relieve all immigration complications in exchange for some considerations. 

 

Most problems would be solved within a generation. 

 

 

Yes, but we don't have regional settlement requirements; new immigrants will go where the jobs are, where their extended famiilies and communities are, and where infrastructure is there to serve them. That means CA and NY, TX perhaps. How can we make the Midwest attractive to new immigrant communities? We can't force new immigrants to live here any more than we can make current residents stay. 

Immigrants often go to where they have family/friends to support them, or the towns they've heard of like New York, Miami, Los Angeles.... When they realize how expensive the famous towns are, then they engage in secondary immigration and that's where cities like Cleveland are getting immigrants. Most of my wife's work is in settling secondary immigrants and her agency is simply overwhelmed with them.

2 hours ago, westerninterloper said:

Yes, but we don't have regional settlement requirements; new immigrants will go where the jobs are, where their extended famiilies and communities are, and where infrastructure is there to serve them. That means CA and NY, TX perhaps. How can we make the Midwest attractive to new immigrant communities? We can't force new immigrants to live here any more than we can make current residents stay. 

Waves and waves of immigrants moved into the US for decades, centuries, without established communities and limited ties. Jews started coming to Cleveland in 1839, Catholics a decade letter, Irish and Welsh in the 1850s and 60s, Slovs, Romanians and Czechs in the 1880s. Certainly there were some factory and steel mill jobs, perhaps limited pre-existing communities, but the Europeans and their offspring also started their own businesses, expanded communities, created functional working class neighborhoods and economies, utilized public transportation, etc, and made the city extraordinary for decades. If continental Europeans could do it, why not continental Asians, provided relaxing (hell, abandoning) immigration requirements?

 

There are so many unfufilled jobs in Greater Cleveland that, for a variety of reasons, will remain unfulfilled by current residents. If Chinese, Indian, and Arabs would come here to work those jobs or start their own businesses, then bring 'em all here. Neighborhoods revitalized. Schools rebalanced with higher quality students. More tax revenue. Fewer blighted areas. Crime drops. Neighborhoods get fireworks and street fairs again. Diversity saves the day!

 

How to make it attractive to would-be immigrants? Give everyone a green card or some equivalency or a long term visa that converts to a green card/citizenship,  provided they achieve certain criteria i.e. staying out of trouble, finding work or starting their own businesses, sending kids to public schools, staying in the area for x number of years. It would require some outside-the-box thinking, but, hell, what exactly are city, state, and federal leaders doing otherwise.

 

 

Edited July 30, 20231 yr by TBideon

11 hours ago, westerninterloper said:

Yes, but we don't have regional settlement requirements; new immigrants will go where the jobs are, where their extended famiilies and communities are, and where infrastructure is there to serve them. That means CA and NY, TX perhaps. How can we make the Midwest attractive to new immigrant communities? We can't force new immigrants to live here any more than we can make current residents stay. 

 

well it can also be done en masse via refugee settlements by uncle sam, ie., the somalis in minneapolis and columbus.

 

of course, getting them to stay is then on the state and city. so back to jobs again. 

 

but at the same time i keep reading ne ohio has plenty of jobs and not enough workers, so maybe gear up the welcome organizations, housing and the job training facilities in advance?

15 hours ago, TBideon said:

How to make it attractive to would-be immigrants? Give everyone a green card or some equivalency or a long term visa that converts to a green card/citizenship,  provided they achieve certain criteria i.e. staying out of trouble, finding work or starting their own businesses, sending kids to public schools, staying in the area for x number of years. It would require some outside-the-box thinking, but, hell, what exactly are city, state, and federal leaders doing otherwise.

This has been proposed, but flatly rejected by Republican legislators.  They seem to have zero interest in really changing our immigration laws (other than building a wall to "keep 'em out").  What would change conservative minds?

On 7/30/2023 at 8:05 AM, mrnyc said:

 

well it can also be done en masse via refugee settlements by uncle sam, ie., the somalis in minneapolis and columbus.

 

of course, getting them to stay is then on the state and city. so back to jobs again. 

 

but at the same time i keep reading ne ohio has plenty of jobs and not enough workers, so maybe gear up the welcome organizations, housing and the job training facilities in advance?

MSP and Cols have long had very strong job growth, which is why the feds directed refugees to those cities. It's also why there are many fewer, per capita, refugees in places like Gary, Flint, and Youngstown. 

5 hours ago, westerninterloper said:

MSP and Cols have long had very strong job growth, which is why the feds directed refugees to those cities. It's also why there are many fewer, per capita, refugees in places like Gary, Flint, and Youngstown. 

 

absolutely, but you don’t use that as an excuse to do nothing. its also possible to petition the fed state dept refugee resettlement program to indicate interest.

 

but of course any way they come you have be able to keep them and jobs are the best way.

 

the good news is ne ohio is not lacking for jobs anymore, its lacking for workers. its just perhaps unsung vs other areas in america today, so ne leadership like mayor bibb and sherrod brown would need to step up.

 

 

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

 

absolutely, but you don’t use that as an excuse to do nothing. its also possible to petition the fed state dept refugee resettlement program to indicate interest.

 

but of course any way they come you have be able to keep them and jobs are the best way.

 

the good news is ne ohio is not lacking for jobs anymore, its lacking for workers. its just perhaps unsung vs other areas in america today, so ne leadership like mayor bibb and sherrod brown would need to step up.

 

 

I would say that Buffalo would be a good model for other postindustrial Great Lakes cities to follow. They have actively courted refugee resettlement, and their 2020 census numbers ticked up for the first time in many decades because of it. A student of mine doing research on refugees in Lansing said that there are more than 20,000 refugees in that metro area, perhaps another good model to investigate. He also said places like Akron and Erie have not done a good job with their refugee ecosystem. Clearly, it takes coordination and planning across a broad array of social and community services to establish a viable refugee community. 

A strong entry-level, but well-paying jobs market is absolutely crucial for refugees, because federal benefits last six months, I believe. Then you're on your own. Can you imagine? Many refugees come here from violent conditions, or refugee camps, don't speak English (or any language well), arent literate, try their hardest to reunite their families, and have to compete in an information economy in six months.

 

Many community orgs support them, churches and other religious groups especially, but i cannot imagine the pressure they are under to step into the workforce.

 

Just dropping them in a community that isnt prepared, and isnt willing to put together the infrastructure to support them doesnt deserve their efforts and determination. Kudos to Columbus, Buffalo, Lansing and MSP for doing the work; they're getting the benefits they've worked for as a community. 

Detroit wants to be the first big American city to tax land value

If you tax blight, will you get less of it?

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/10/05/detroit-wants-to-be-the-first-big-american-city-to-tax-land-value

On 10/16/2023 at 10:47 PM, KJP said:

Detroit wants to be the first big American city to tax land value

If you tax blight, will you get less of it?

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/10/05/detroit-wants-to-be-the-first-big-american-city-to-tax-land-value

I'd speculate you'd get more blight in undesirable areas as already stressed owners would have incentive to abandon their properties. On the flip side I believe you'd also see more positive momentum in desirable areas as it would incentivize more appropriate development of underutilized properties. Overall sounds like an idea I'd be in favor of but it probably can't be approached with a "one size fits all" type policy. 

Led by Buffalo and Cincinnati. Now Detroit. Cmon Cleveland, Pittsburgh and St. Louis...you're next! #population

 

Census Bureau estimates: Detroit population rises after decades of decline, South dominates growth

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/national/2024/05/16/census-estimates-detroit-population-rises-after-decades-of-decline-south-still-dominates-us-growth/

Pittsburgh city actually grew in 2023 from 302,799 to 303,255.