What are covington's requirements vs Cincinnati?

 

Part of the transit problem is cultural

 

 

In the CBD and the Historic Districts there are no requirements for parking, elsewhere in the city is pretty typical 1 per dwelling unit requirement.

Lol, OTR is hardly "there" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The most major OTR street such as Vine has only been developed up to the 1400 block, and even then, the earlier blocks are still undeveloped (but will developed soon with the rook bar, and ensemble theater expanding).

 

Streets like Elm and Walnut have hardly been touched, and still need so much work. Not saying the momentum isn't great, and it's made strides compared to 5-10 years ago, but the successful part of OTR is still encompassing such a small area.

 

For the most part much of OTR is a ghetto that have buildings on the verge of collapsing any day.

Nearby areas are usually "undervalued" for a very good reason, because they're not "there" yet.  It takes a very specific type of person to be a pioneer in a neighborhood, and there's not many of them.  While Walnut Hills or East Price Hill or Camp Washington or the West End could be nice some day, they're frankly not nice now. 

 

It could be a long wait for the neighborhood to reach critical mass.

 

Just a handful of blocks of OTR are "there" as of now.  The thing is that in other cities, when the money moves its attention to a particular neighborhood, prices always get out-of-hand well before the neighborhood is "there".  If you want to realize a return on your primary residence (without renting out spare bedrooms or buying and living in a multi-family), you need to buy in a cheap neighborhood.  And right now you can find houses that need basically zero work other than some paint for very, very cheap and you can get the loans more easily than you could during the years following the crash. 

 

Over the past 15 years housing prices have skyrocketed in Nashville, TN to the point where there is no house of any kind priced under $300k within a 5-mile radius of their DT.  It doesn't matter if the house is next to high tension wires, a bowling alley parking lot, a freeway on-ramp, or what.  These houses don't have basements and they usually look like something in Lockland or North College Hill.  I think in Cincinnati we're going to see a similar push in 15-20 years that is going to catch a lot of people off-guard and kicking themselves for not having gotten in when the getting was cheap. 

 

 

Cincinati is still missing a major piece.....a singular massive industry to drive population and economic growth.  Nashville becoming a major music center and the subsequent tourism, has fueled most of the growth and rise in prices.  Cincinnati is much more diversified.  I was hoping with P&G, Kroger, and Federated, we could capitalize a bit more on our retail/consumer products/packaging strengths, but with P&G divesting of soooo many brands lately, it worries me.  Childrens latest expansion and the MLK interchange might provide potential. Can we become a dominant medical research location? 

Maybe Cincy can buck the trend, and become a Nashville type growth city by having solid growth across all of its stronger economic sectors.  It's going to take tens of thousands, possiby hundreds of thousands of new residents to get to the point where we see real estate valuations rise across the entire city.

 

That's somewhat disingenuous. The area bound by Elm Street, Central Parkway, Liberty Street, and Sycamore Street really doesn't have any large gaping holes of a lack of redevelopment except the areas up by Liberty along Walnut, Race, and Elm. Main Street is fully developed from Central Parkway to Liberty with the notable exception of the Davis Furniture Building/lot. Walnut Street is now mostly developed up to around 14th. Vine Street is fully developed from Central Parkway up to 15th with only a couple exceptions. Race Street is fully occupied/developed from Central Parkway up to 15th with only a handful of exceptions along the park with new development soon taking it further into the 1500 block. Elm Street definitely is the least developed, but at this point in time there are no fewer than 25 townhomes being planned north of 15th along Elm or just off Elm. Then when speaking of the side streets they're coming along super quickly. Republic's entire stretch is now pretty much occupied or in the process of renovation. The last stretch of vacancy, the 1500 block, currently has four dumpsters out in the street and essentially every building is under renovation. The only big hole is that big vacant lot where that "church" preaches very loudly in front of that grape vine mural on Sundays. Jackson Street is basically fully occupied. Clay Street is definitely in need of a lot of help but Urban Sites is taking that charge. The cross streets are doing quite well as well. 14th is a great street along its entire length now with the only giant hole being where the Mercer Commons office building will be built. 15th still needs some help, but with the Kruckmeyer, B Side Lofts, Red Bike's hq, Westfalen Lofts, Taft's, The Osborne, etc. it has gone from mostly vacant to mostly spoken for. The corner building at Race/15th is under renovation now and those aformentioned townhomes above are being built along 15th between Elm and Central Parkway.

 

The point of all this massive block of text is that there really aren't a ton of vacancies that aren't spoken for south of Liberty these days. Yes, there are notable problem spots, but it's more common for those spots to be spoken for than for them to be unknowns.

 

And the area south of Liberty isn't this tiny area. South of Liberty is 36 square blocks (only using main streets, none of the bisecting streets such as Republic, Clay, Jackson, Mercer, etc.). A very good chunk of that (more than likely the majority of) has been touched in the last decade or so.

I would consider Main Street an "under performing" street in my honest opinion.

 

There's still many vacant store fronts along that street, and there's not nearly enough viable businesses there. That place really should be filled 24/7, but the only time when it's really jumping is during the busy bar scene late at night. And even then most of that traffic is strictly driven by 2 bars (Neon's and Japps). There should be way more cafe's, and coffee shops, and just lunch/dinner spots.

 

Right now, most of the street activity you will see on Main are from the homeless people waiting to get inside the shelter. (And this isn't a complaint, but they frequently publicly whip out there junk and urinate on the side walk. It's kind of disgusting, especially when there are small kids walking from/to school).

 

 

Also, I'm also grouping in Pendelton to the bigger "OTR" picture as well. That place needs quite a bit of work as well (But the model group seems to be tackling that fairly well)

I definitely disagree that Main Street is "fully developed" from Central Parkway to Liberty. There sure are a lot of vacant storefronts and many buildings that need a lot of work.

 

Cincinnati is much more diversified.  I was hoping with P&G, Kroger, and Federated, we could capitalize a bit more on our retail/consumer products/packaging strengths, but with P&G divesting of soooo many brands lately, it worries me.  Childrens latest expansion and the MLK interchange might provide potential. Can we become a dominant medical research location? 

Maybe Cincy can buck the trend, and become a Nashville type growth city by having solid growth across all of its stronger economic sectors.  It's going to take tens of thousands, possiby hundreds of thousands of new residents to get to the point where we see real estate valuations rise across the entire city.

 

 

 

5,000 poor immigrants vs. 5,000 people from California with tons of equity in their homes is a totally different situation.  The later is what has happened in Nashville over the past 5 years, with various entertainment industry companies moving operations to cheaper rent and cheaper labor in Tennessee.  If you're moving from an expensive unwalkable part of the country like LA to a cheap part, you don't hesitate to buy a $300k flipped bungalow right off a street similar to Colerain Ave. or Rt. 4.  If those same people were moving to Cincinnati, we'd have thousands of wealthy people pushing up comparable sales.  Many would be cash buyers on $300-500k condos and houses. 

 

The issue for those who do own just one house or condo in the city is that they won't really be able to get the equity out of it if they at some point move within the city after it all becomes expensive.  But if you own various properties around town, you can move when you either need more or less space and get the equity out of a property you won't live in again. 

I definitely disagree that Main Street is "fully developed" from Central Parkway to Liberty. There sure are a lot of vacant storefronts and many buildings that need a lot of work.

 

How many storefronts are actually vacant? I can only think of a few and those are all the ones Urban Sites are renovating at the moment.

 

I guess when I say "fully developed" I don't mean "recently renovated and fully upgraded." A building being occupied is more what I'm speaking of. There aren't that many buildings that are vacant above the ground level and of the ones that were Urban Sites has snagged them up and is turning them into office space and several others are in the process of being renovated.

Some other notable gaps (though I agree with jmicha[/member] 's assessment of good progress being made everywhere): the huge vacant building at NW corner of 14th and Walnut. And two vacant buildings surrounded by occupied and renovated buildings on the SW corner of 13th and Walnut. I have no idea of what's going on with those even though I use a picture of them for my Twitter.

 

 

Cincinati is still missing a major piece.....a singular massive industry to drive population and economic growth.  Nashville becoming a major music center and the subsequent tourism, has fueled most of the growth and rise in prices.  Cincinnati is much more diversified.  I was hoping with P&G, Kroger, and Federated, we could capitalize a bit more on our retail/consumer products/packaging strengths, but with P&G divesting of soooo many brands lately, it worries me.  Childrens latest expansion and the MLK interchange might provide potential. Can we become a dominant medical research location? 

Maybe Cincy can buck the trend, and become a Nashville type growth city by having solid growth across all of its stronger economic sectors.  It's going to take tens of thousands, possiby hundreds of thousands of new residents to get to the point where we see real estate valuations rise across the entire city.

 

 

That's why I'm all in on this "urbanism stuff." I fully believe it's a furnace that can drive an economic engine. Whether that be spawning small businesses that grow or attracting companies to open offices here.

I definitely disagree that Main Street is "fully developed" from Central Parkway to Liberty. There sure are a lot of vacant storefronts and many buildings that need a lot of work.

 

How many storefronts are actually vacant? I can only think of a few and those are all the ones Urban Sites are renovating at the moment.

 

I guess when I say "fully developed" I don't mean "recently renovated and fully upgraded." A building being occupied is more what I'm speaking of. There aren't that many buildings that are vacant above the ground level and of the ones that were Urban Sites has snagged them up and is turning them into office space and several others are in the process of being renovated.

 

There are a few storefronts that have been vacant seemingly forever like the New York Dry Cleaners, or the NW corner of 12th & Main, or the green building at Woodward & Main. There are a handful of storefronts that are revolving doors, like the ones that formerly housed Steam Whistle Letterpress, Edgy Pooch, and Porter's Pinball Parlor. Soon Mixx will be leaving their space on Main (although there are some rumors that Urban Sites has a new tenant in mind). Hen of the Woods still says "coming soon" after like 2 years. Rock Paper Scissors is transitioning to a new concept and is closed for the time being. And there is a church taking up some storefronts between Liberty's and Cincy Shirts -- no offense to them, but a church is not the most productive use of that space.

 

While things are improving on Main, and will continue to do so as a result of projects like the SCPA and Ziegler Park, I feel like we have many years to go before we have reached the level of stability that Vine currently has. I don't think Main Street will end up full of restaurants like Senate and The Eagle (nor would I want that), but it would be nice to see higher occupancy rates, some more stability, and a few higher quality businesses to balance out the tax places and convenience stores.

^maybe what Main needs is one or two restaurants to drive foot traffic in the early evening hours. Even 7-8 pm can feel kinda dead there even on a Saturday, even though all heck is about to break loose from 10pm-1am.

so about those Alumni Lofts....

Here's my latest shot of the building from 1/25:

 

 

You can see the original windows on the 1st and 2nd floors and replacement windows on the top 3, but the transoms (I think that's the right term here?) mimicking the original windows have only been installed on the top floor so far.

Here's my latest shot of the building from 1/25:

 

You can see the original windows on the 1st and 2nd floors and replacement windows on the top 3, but the transoms (I think that's the right term here?) mimicking the original windows have only been installed on the top floor so far.

 

Nice photo! I think the term you're looking for is "muntins": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntin

 

Transoms are small windows (typically above a door).

Looks like 3CDC got a drone:

 

Ziegler Park by 3CDC Cincinnati, on Flickr

I recently toured some of these units in the alumni lofts building looking for a place to rent. Not only are the units and the building absolutely stunning, I was surprised by the pricing!

 

Some of the rent prices they have are very competitive to the rest of OTR and CBD. $1000 in alumni lofts can get you a nearly 800~ square foot one bedroom, something that can cost $1600+ at a new building in the CBD or the banks.  There are still some apartment left in the $1200-1600 range on the top floor that have tall ceiling, lofts, skylights, dens, half baths etc.

 

 

The latest on Alumni Lofts and Pendleton.  http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/082316-soapdish-historic-pendleton-back-to-life-casey-column.aspx

 

By the way, Lucious Q plans to start construction next month. I'll leave out the part where they expect to be open in January, because there is no way that's happening.

Caseyc[/member] OCtoCincy[/member] Do either of you happen to know if 3CDC and the city will actually be making Sycamore Street more attractive between the two halves of Ziegler Park? In the renderings, they show a new streetscape with bumpouts for a mid-block crosswalk. Buried utilities would be nice too...

I doubt that the City has plans to upgrade the 1300-1500 block. We have not been even able to get the new LED post lighting up there that everyone else seems to have.

 

But the garage is going along very well.

I've heard an interesting update. Apparently the building did not pass inspection, the owners did not receive their certificate of occupancy for the property on time and folks who were supposed to move in yesterday are being delayed. Something about problems with the elevator and fire suppression systems.

 

I saw two moving trucks outside today. Hopefully those people could at least drop off their stuff.

I walked over there. They were dropping off stuff for tenants. I don't know what the CO problem is. Could have been from the rain. Monday they had a major amount of water going right out the front door and down the steps and down the street. Big pump, big hose, lots of water. If there were to be inspections in the basement, I doubt those occurred. But, the project is being very professionally run and I'm sure Michael Cox has it well under control.

They must have got their certificate of occupancy. People were moving in today. The security guy said people were living there last night.

 

Place looks great. Is 142 units the biggest private residential project in OTR?

I am not certain but it's got to be up there as one of the bigger single conversions in OTR recently.  The YMCA is also opening a lot of new apartments (not certain if those are ready or occupied yet), and I am not certain on the number total but it is for seniors. 

No posts in this thread for over a year? This project is now open. Core Redevelopment has some photos on their website: http://www.coreredevelopment.com/apartments/alumni-lofts/

I think they did a great job with the garage/greenspace as well!