On 3/10/2021 at 6:19 PM, Pugu said:

 

Did they miss the target due to early releases from County Jail because of covid?  I'm joking, but I can't remember, does the DCA population number include people at the county jail? I think the census number does include them? @jonoh81may know the answer to that.

 

 

The decennial census counts prisoners at the location of their incarceration, not at any otherwise listed address.  So there may be some discrepancy if they were counted at part of a prison population, but then were released after the count. 

   

Edited March 14, 20214 yr by jonoh81

9 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

The decennial census counts prisoners at the location of their incarceration, not at any otherwise listed address.  So there may be some discrepancy if they were counted at part of a prison population, but then were released after the count. 

   

 

Thanks.  Cleveland City Jail and Cuyahoga County Jail are jails and not prisons--so i think sentences are shorter compared to those of prisons where they could be 10, 20 years or 'life'. So its interesting the census counts them at the Cleveland justice center as it is temporary, though thats where they may be on April 1, 2010/20/30....  Any idea what number the Downtown Cleveland Alliance uses?

 

Cross-posted in the Ohio Intercity Rail thread

 

 

Campaign arrives to expand Cleveland Amtrak service
By Ken Prendergast / August 5, 2022

 

The Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency (NOACA), Downtown Cleveland Alliance (DCA) and Cleveland Neighborhood Progress (CNP) are advocating to expand Cleveland’s Amtrak service into a central passenger rail line. As the economic powerhouse of Northeast Ohio, Downtown Cleveland is home to the state’s largest jobs hub and residential downtown area, making it central to business, housing and events, and a critical access route within the region and beyond. The organizations are joining forces to seek community input and support for the initiative through a survey, running through the month of August.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/08/05/campaign-arrives-to-expand-cleveland-amtrak-service/

 

I view this subject as a microcosm for the political battle in America today. Those of us on the Left would love nothing more than to be able to travel on a train like our European friends. Those on the Right view expanding rail service as part of a  Socialist takeover of America. The Blue Ohio Cities want it. Red Ohio government doesn't. 

 

As long as Ohio remains a Red state we will continue to decline. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing anytime soon. But you never know. I was shocked when Kansas voted for abortion rights. Will Ohio finally get expanded rail? One can only hope. In the meantime a big thank you to all those fighting the good fight. 

 

54 minutes ago, cadmen said:

I view this subject as a microcosm for the political battle in America today. Those of us on the Left would love nothing more than to be able to travel on a train like our European friends. Those on the Right view expanding rail service as part of a  Socialist takeover of America. The Blue Ohio Cities want it. Red Ohio government doesn't. 

 

As long as Ohio remains a Red state we will continue to decline. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing anytime soon. But you never know. I was shocked when Kansas voted for abortion rights. Will Ohio finally get expanded rail? One can only hope. In the meantime a big thank you to all those fighting the good fight. 

 

I think you're going to see alot of blue voter referendums pop up on election day in the coming years that will dramatically alter this state, ex: abortion, marijuana, gay marriage protections just in case, etc

Hopefully involvement and support from the business communities will make a difference this time. 

 

I'm always curious, was there any hint where NOACA wanted the multimodal facility? Or since this is currently just for expanded service on the existing lines the assumption is moving forward with the lakefront station? At least for the time being. 

3 hours ago, cadmen said:

I view this subject as a microcosm for the political battle in America today. Those of us on the Left would love nothing more than to be able to travel on a train like our European friends. Those on the Right view expanding rail service as part of a  Socialist takeover of America. The Blue Ohio Cities want it. Red Ohio government doesn't. 

 

As long as Ohio remains a Red state we will continue to decline. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing anytime soon. But you never know. I was shocked when Kansas voted for abortion rights. Will Ohio finally get expanded rail? One can only hope. In the meantime a big thank you to all those fighting the good fight. 

 

There are many conservatives that would LOVE to see passenger rail developed. And there are strong conservative-principle arguments for supporting passenger rail. (Far lower subsidy than cars/trucks require, reducing dependency on foreign energy sources, leverage passenger rail investments to improve freight rail service, etc.) The original Ohio Hub / 3C&D plan was driven by Republicans. Yes, the current Ohio Republican Party is unlikely to actively support rail, and yes, Kasich absolutely is to blame for the Ohio 3C&D not existing today. That said, we are FAR more likely to get passenger rail by building a coalition of supporters from across the political spectrum than we are from hoping for a blue takeover of state politics. (As much as I hope for that.) Remember that one of the most vocal proponents of the Ohio 3C&D in Ohio government today is Crestline’s Republican mayor.

 

Ideas for building a passenger rail coalition in our red state:

-Focus on the ENORMOUS government subsidy required to support our highway and local road system. Constructions costs, maintenance costs, mowing medians, snow plowing, local and state road patrols (think of how much of our police budgets are just to do road patrol!).

- Remind people of how deadly roads are: 42,000 Americans and over 1000 Ohioans died in car crashes last year, and far more were injured. Compare this to the Japanese Shinkansen high speed rail - 60 years of service, 8 billion passenger trips, ZERO fatalities. 
- Remind people of the obscene costs in owning a car - median cost of nearly $10k / year, $800/ month. Car payment, insurance, maintenance, repairs. 
- Demonstrate how suburban sprawl hurts agriculture, by making land values in exurban areas too expensive to farm. Exurbs destroy farms too, not just cities. 

Yes, we need massive electoral reform in Ohio for a wide variety of reasons. When it comes to passenger rail, though, we need to focus on building a bipartisan coalition. 

2 hours ago, Luke_S said:

Hopefully involvement and support from the business communities will make a difference this time. 

 

I'm always curious, was there any hint where NOACA wanted the multimodal facility? Or since this is currently just for expanded service on the existing lines the assumption is moving forward with the lakefront station? At least for the time being. 

 

NOACA has considered only a lakefront multimodal transportation center. The exact location hasn't been determined but could be part of the proposed landbridge linking downtown with North Coast Harbor/lakefront development -- so basically where the existing Amtrak station is.

Hey Brian, l get what you're saying. All true. Not sure where you're getting that plenty of Conservatives want expanded rail service though. I don't know any and l never come across an opinion piece by a Conservative who espouses it either. But your arguments are spot on. I only wish Conservatives would take the time to reflect on them. We might win some of them over to our side.

Just left a guardians game. There's all new slightly mature trees downtown with fresh planters. I only saw one dead tree on Euclid. Pretty impressive actually. And PNC knocked it out of the park with their plantings. 

On 8/6/2022 at 2:48 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

- Demonstrate how suburban sprawl hurts agriculture, by making land values in exurban areas too expensive to farm. Exurbs destroy farms too, not just cities. 
 

 

Fly over NE or SW Ohio and there's still a lot of farmland.   Fly over NW or SE and that's pretty much what's there.

 

Two examples of how individual farmers make sprawl work for them:

Patterson's:  close to a lot of suburbanites to whom they can sell direct.

 

Columbia Station:  full of people who sold their land to developers and bought more down 82, much cheaper.

4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Fly over NE or SW Ohio and there's still a lot of farmland.   Fly over NW or SE and that's pretty much what's there.

 

Two examples of how individual farmers make sprawl work for them:

Patterson's:  close to a lot of suburbanites to whom they can sell direct.

 

Columbia Station:  full of people who sold their land to developers and bought more down 82, much cheaper.

Counterpoint.

And make careful note of those population numbers. Furthermore, the Patterson’s and Maplesides will NOT make up for all the quality farmland in Cuyahoga County and surrounding counties that was sacrificed in subsidizing automobiles. 

2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Counterpoint.

And make careful note of those population numbers. Furthermore, the Patterson’s and Maplesides will NOT make up for all the quality farmland in Cuyahoga County and surrounding counties that was sacrificed in subsidizing automobiles. 

 

Look at the entire state.    By the way, Patterson's is in Geauga County (IIRC), Columbia Station is in Lorain.   

 

There's still a lot of farmland left even when people in general have chosen to spread out.  We've been over why this has been a megatrend, nationally, since WWII.  It's also been good for individual farmers, who have adapted.

 

Edit: This should probably be moved to the sprawl thread.

Edited August 22, 20222 yr by E Rocc

 

Downtown Cleveland Inc. makes a move

By Ken Prendergast / August 31, 2023

 

In written statement to the media and others, Downtown Cleveland, Inc. today announced board approval of its move to a new office location next year. The decision comes after careful consideration of the organization’s operational needs and strategic goals, with the aim of bolstering visibility, enhancing accessibility for stakeholders and the community, and reinforcing its refreshed brand identity.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/08/31/downtown-cleveland-inc-makes-a-move/

 

Downtown Cleveland's recovery accelerated in 2023

By Ken Prendergast / March 18, 2024

 

In a data-heavy report released today, Downtown Cleveland, Inc. (DCI) outlined its achievements in continuing the recovery of Cleveland’s business and hospitality center and one of Cuyahoga County’s fastest-growing residential areas. The data, contained in the 2023 Downtown Cleveland Economic Development Report, says the recovery of Cleveland’s central business district is outpacing that of its peer cities in Ohio and the Great Lakes region.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/03/18/downtown-clevelands-recovery-accelerated-in-2023/